Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Anastasis 23485]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Right, it isn't even supposed to be legislation. It is the promise to try and make the legislation. 

Nancy already shitting on the Green New Deal. Good luck AOC. 

[jimmyjazz 46131]

1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

Like I’m actually reading that plan and thinking, “You know what, this actually will lead to unprecedented levels of prosperity for every single person in the United States, and really easily with no downsides -  but fuck that, I’m against it because bah humbug.”  Let’s just have 5 year olds run the country based on who can draw the happiest picture or write the nicest poem if all that matters is nice thoughts. 

We quite literally have malicious assholes running the country whose primary goal seems to be little more than to fuck the working man, and you're bent out of shape that some floater ideas are not fully fleshed out and vetted, when in reality they are easily as fleshed out and vetted as the average nascent concept that ends up fucking us over left and right.  Do you ever just step back and think for a moment?

Edited February 7, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[EMAWesome 101]

23 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

The Heritage Foundation published an index of "Economic Freedom" -- you know, the type of thing rah-rah capitalist types should LOVE.  The US comes in at 12th place on the list.  Countries with greater economic freedom?  Here they are.  And note something interesting.  All of them -- these countries with MORE economic freedom than the US, per those pinko commies at the Heritage Foundation -- (except for the odd duck Mauritius).....have universal healthcare.

The "hell" that you're describing?  That hell looks like the most economically successful and vibrant places on earth.  And when you expand the list to include entities close to us in economic freedom, the disparity becomes even more apparent.  Literally every western democracy has universal healthcare.  You morons keep saying that having it will lead to hell on earth......utterly ignoring the fact that it works in country, after country, after country.  Many of them with more economic freedom than our own.  You are standing on the moon, looking down at the spinning round earth, and shouting that the world is flat.  You just look silly at this point.

 

And the population of all eleven of those countries combined probably doesn't come close to the population of the United States.  Government works best on small levels.  Universal health care in a country with the population of the United States would not be a case of the government working on a small level.

[bad_teammate 13224]

59 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Nancy already shitting on the Green New Deal. Good luck AOC. 

That's the real fight, and it's the one the Justice Democrats, AOC, and the left actually care about fighting. Trump is a clown and the Republicans are hopeless. The real war is against the neo-liberal order. 

[EMAWesome 101]

19 hours ago, Tom said:

You have a point here.  The social media mob took things too far without having all of the evidence.  The boys definitely did not start the drama. 

There was still evidence of those kids being assholes at different parts of the day in videos to different groups of people, including the natives.  They weren't free of any blame.

Now, here you have no point at all.  This. never. fucking.  happened.  The I.R.S. was also targeting progressive groups, and neither was at the direction of Obama.  Just like "Obama did more executive orders than anyone!" or "Hillary sold uranium to the Russians!" or "Hillary killed a DNC staffer and JFK, Jr.!" None of these things happened and you've been lied to.  But you people swallow this bullshit hook, line, and sinker every time Sean Hannity or Breitbart or townhallpatriots.blogspot.com feeds it to you.

 

 

No, you've seen a few of the most fringe members of BLM be openly racist.  Most in the group have just protested the police killing people that look like them.  Doesn't sound so unreasonable to me.  But congrats on voting for someone you don't like because some strangers on a message board were mean to you.  Sounds like you've got some real political convictions and principles there.

The part in bold is absolute, complete, and utter bullshit. (Other than the Hillary not killing a DNC staffer).  The IRS and Hillary-uranium stuff has been reported on by sources and reporters far more credible than Hannity and Breitbart.  I've never heard of townhallpatriots so I have no idea them.

[thrillhammer 684]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

You, like totally, missed the part about where we should give everyone great jobs that pay great amounts of money, and kill all the farting cows.
 

look out, they're coming for you

[EMAWesome 101]

3 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

Y'all do understand that legislators all the time will put forward legislation that isn't completely filled with details to try and start a process. She was interviewed this morning on NPR by Steve Inskeep who asked specifically about this, her reasoning is that this is going to have to go through a ton of committee reviews if it moves forward and putting any teeth in implementation details would almost assuredly get stripped away in various meetings. I do agree that 10 years seems almost unrealistic, but I'm so sick and damn tired of hearing about how we can't pay for things when something like the F-35 program has cost over 1.5 trillion dollars thus far. The majority of Americans feel that climate change will cause harm to the US and the rest of the world.

It doesn't matter what the details are what she is proposing is impossible to accomplish just in terms of common sense and engineering in that time span.  You want to do away with all fossil fuels and nuclear energy in ten years, build railways across oceans, and rebuild every single building in the United States.  How are we going to manufacture all the construction equipment it would take to do all these things?  Factories don't run efficiently if at all on solar and wind energy.  Most of the parts needed to make this type of equipment are made out of metals which means you will need to dig that metal out of the ground.  Is anyone making cranes and mining equipment that runs on solar or wind power?  No, they all run on fossil fuels.  How are you going to get these raw materials to the factories to manufacture this equipment?  Solar powered semis?   What are we going to do with all the pilots, air traffic controllers, and anyone else involved with the airline industry?  How about everyone involved in the petroleum and coal industries? Not to mention this will cost the moon, the stars, the sun, and the entire cosmos fiscally to accomplish.  This is absolute lunacy just from a common sense and practicality point of view no matter what anyone's politics are.  

[elfenix 34332]

15 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

The part in bold is absolute, complete, and utter bullshit. (Other than the Hillary not killing a DNC staffer).  The IRS and Hillary-uranium stuff has been reported on by sources and reporters far more credible than Hannity and Breitbart.  I've never heard of townhallpatriots so I have no idea them.

this totally wasn't rebutted in this very thread just yesterday.

[elfenix 34332]

23 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Factories don't run efficiently if at all on solar and wind energy. 

what does this even mean?

[GSU&UT 1798]

Not sure why I didn't have EMAW on ignore until now, but anyone peddling Hillary Uranium conspiracy garbage isn't worth even acknowledging.

[DaysOff 7974]

Lolz. Choo choo trains across oceans. Guess I'll retire early.

[DCA_HORN 725]

The Heritage Foundation published an index of "Economic Freedom" -- you know, the type of thing rah-rah capitalist types should LOVE.  The US comes in at 12th place on the list.  Countries with greater economic freedom?  Here they are.  And note something interesting.  All of them -- these countries with MORE economic freedom than the US, per those pinko commies at the Heritage Foundation -- (except for the odd duck Mauritius).....have universal healthcare.

The "hell" that you're describing?  That hell looks like the most economically successful and vibrant places on earth.  And when you expand the list to include entities close to us in economic freedom, the disparity becomes even more apparent.  Literally every western democracy has universal healthcare.  You morons keep saying that having it will lead to hell on earth......utterly ignoring the fact that it works in country, after country, after country.  Many of them with more economic freedom than our own.  You are standing on the moon, looking down at the spinning round earth, and shouting that the world is flat.  You just look silly at this point.
 

Its be interesting to see where those countries rank on immigration and racial relations.

[Anastasis 23485]

Seriously. Singapore. Lol. 

[bad_teammate 13224]

Canada is more diverse than the US. That's just one I know of off-hand.

[Atx71 146]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Seriously. Singapore. Lol. 

Oversea oil field folks would cut a throat to get posted there. Been that way for 40 years or more. 

[Lurch 5931]

History’s greatest monster, imo.

God damn impressive.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

1 hour ago, GSU&UT said:

Not sure why I didn't have EMAW on ignore until now, but anyone peddling Hillary Uranium conspiracy garbage isn't worth even acknowledging.

 

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

this totally wasn't rebutted in this very thread just yesterday.

No it wasn't. Here's some more recent news.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/26/tea-party-groups-targeted-irs-get-35-million-settl/

The article you cite is literally just cherry picking. 

https://www.npr.org/2016/06/17/482500386/court-documents-show-the-irs-focused-scrutiny-on-conservative-groups

Quote

In all, 282 conservative groups were on the IRS list, about two-thirds of the total number of groups that got additional scrutiny.

The list also has 67 progressive organizations (16 percent of the total) and 21 nonpartisan civic groups, including three League of Women Voters chapters.

And that's ignoring all the other stuff  they did, which includes simply not acting on the applications, and asking extremely offensive questions, impossible to comply with demands, names of every donor, and other wildly unconstitutional bullshit like "tell us the all about your prayers". I haven't seen one liberal group complain about those kinds of problems.
 

Quote

Some flagged organizations were required to provide further documentation in requests that Rep. Bill Flores called "overreaching and impossible to comply with".^[51] Documentation requested varied among different groups but, in some cases, included copies of "any contracts" or "training material" the groups may have exchanged with Koch foundations.^[52] In one instance, the IRS asked for "summaries or copies of all material passed out at meetings."^[53] Several letters asked for "copies of the groups' Web pages, blog posts and social media postings."^[53] Organizations were informed that if they did not provide the information sought, they would not be certified as tax-exempt.

Another question asked of some unidentified applicants was:

Provide the following information for the income you received and raised for the years from inception to the present. Also, provide the same information for the income you expect to receive and raise for 2012, 2013, and 2014.

a. Donations, contributions, and grant income for each year, which includes the following information:

1. The names of the donors, contributors, and grantors. If the donor, contributor, or grantor has run or will run for a public office, identify the office. If not, please confirm by answering this question "No".
2. The amounts of each of the donations, contributions, and grants and the dates you received them.
3. How did you use these donations, contributions, and grants? Provide the details.

If you did not receive or do not expect to receive any donation, contribution, and grant income, please confirm by answering "None received" and/or "None expected".^[11]

Another unidentified applicant was asked to "Please provide copies of all your current web pages, including your Blog posts. Please provide copies of all of your newsletters, bulletins, flyers, newsletters or any other media or literature you have disseminated to your members or others. Please provide copies of stories and articles that have been published about you."^[54]

The Coalition for Life of Iowa, a pro-life group, was asked to "Please explain how all of your activities, including the prayer meetings held outside of Planned Parenthood are considered educational as defined under 501(c)(3). Organizations exempt under 501(c)(3) may present opinions with scientific or medical facts. Please explain in detail the activities at these prayer meetings. Also, please provide the percentage of time your group spends on prayer groups as compared with other activities of the organization."^[55] While questioning then-Acting Commissioner of the IRS, Steven T. Miller, on May 17, 2013, Congressman Aaron Schock (R-IL), referring to a report^[56] by the conservative, non-profit law firm, the Thomas More Society, misquoted one of the questions asked of the coalition as "please detail the content of the members of your organization's prayers." Schock went on to ask, "Would that be an inappropriate question to a 501(c)(3) applicant? The content of one's prayers?" Miller replied, "It pains me to say I can't speak to that one either." Upon further questioning by Schock, Miller stated that it would "surprise him" if that question were asked.^[57] Schock's characterization of the question was included in news reports^[55][57] and was repeated by conservative commentators.^[58][59] However, the Thomas More Society chose to publish the questions that were asked by the IRS. These included a question as to whether the group provided, “education on both sides of the issues,” and also a question to “please explain what you are [doing] during” 40 Days for Life and Life Chain vigils." 

 

[EMAWesome 101]

1 hour ago, DaysOff said:

Lolz. Choo choo trains across oceans. Guess I'll retire early.

Someone should send her a book on the 1935 hurricane that hit the Florida Keys.  Explain to her what happens when trains on tracks across a large body of water meets a hurricane.

[elfenix 34332]

34 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

 

No it wasn't. Here's some more recent news.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/26/tea-party-groups-targeted-irs-get-35-million-settl/

The article you cite is literally just cherry picking. 

https://www.npr.org/2016/06/17/482500386/court-documents-show-the-irs-focused-scrutiny-on-conservative-groups

And that's ignoring all the other stuff  they did, which includes simply not acting on the applications, and asking extremely offensive questions, impossible to comply with demands, names of every donor, and other wildly unconstitutional bullshit like "tell us the all about your prayers". I haven't seen one liberal group complain about those kinds of problems.
 

 

the

Justice Department and IRS now say [Lois Lerner] failed to stop her employees and hid the bad behavior from her bosses for two years.

404 obama not found.

 

11 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Someone should send her a book on the 1935 hurricane that hit the Florida Keys.  Explain to her what happens when trains on tracks across a large body of water meets a hurricane.

yep, there it is, right at the bottom of page 8 on line 24, written in clear print "(iii) high-speed rail" and then immediately following in invisible ink "(across the ocean lol)"

(although, i note that people who think bigger have tossed various undersea/subsurface tunnels around - if we're doing underground hyperloops we're 2/3 of the way there anyway)

[F250 28818]

2 hours ago, elfenix said:

what does this even mean?

He is conflating transmission and distribution on the grid with power gen which is fairly common mistake. Most people don't realize how diverse the power gen side is and how it is monitored 24/7 along with consumption to prevent a situation where you have reoccurring rolling blackouts. It's not as if Joe's widget factory has an array of solar panels out back and has to shutdown on cloudy days, they are pulling electricity off the grid that's receiving electricity from a multitude of sources spread out all over the place.

 

[jimmyjazz 46131]

3 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

I have spent 1,000 times more time on here and shaggy calling Trump a shitstain than criticizing ACO.  Find a new way to argue when someone disagrees with a politician you like, because “But Trump!” is just as worthless in a discussion about ACO’s proposals as “But Hillary’s emails!” in a Trump thread.

I didn't mention Trump.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 hours ago, EMAWesome said:

Someone should send her a book on the 1935 hurricane that hit the Florida Keys.  Explain to her what happens when trains on tracks across a large body of water meets a hurricane.

Someone should tell EMAW that we have now advanced to the point that we know when hurricanes are coming.  Maybe Al Roker is the man for that job.  When hurricanes are coming, evacuation orders are issued and trains don't run. You know that airplanes avoid weather patterns too, no?  And icelandic volcanos. 

Even the NYC subway (much of it actually above ground) was shut down in preparation for Sandy. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

We've discussed the bankruptcy the would follow from "Medicare For All". Need we discuss catastrophe and federal bankruptcy that will follow from the "AOC GREEN PLAN"?

Edited February 8, 2019 by Thetexashammer

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[EMAWesome 101]

8 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Someone should tell EMAW that we have now advanced to the point that we know when hurricanes are coming.  Maybe Al Roker is the man for that job.  When hurricanes are coming, evacuation orders are issued and trains don't run. You know that airplanes avoid weather patterns too, no?  And icelandic volcanos. 

Even the NYC subway (much of it actually above ground) was shut down in preparation for Sandy. 

The 1935 hurricane that hit the Florida Keys not only wiped out a passenger train.  It also completely obliterated the tracks themselves.  How many times are we going to have to rebuild a thousand miles of railroad tracks if this idiotic plan of hers is ever implemented?

[thrillhammer 684]

19 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

that was well done by our girl.   kudos to corden for helping spread the word.

[Brian Fantana 6690]

16 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

The 1935 hurricane that hit the Florida Keys not only wiped out a passenger train.  It also completely obliterated the tracks themselves.  How many times are we going to have to rebuild a thousand miles of railroad tracks if this idiotic plan of hers is ever implemented?

You have to be the biggest fucking moron on this board, and we already have hammer.

[EMAWesome 101]

LOL, Harris, Warren, Booker, Gillebrand, and Sanders have all already endorsed this plan.  AOC is Jim Jones and the Democrat Party is Jonestown.

[EMAWesome 101]

3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

You have to be the biggest fucking moron on this board, and we already have hammer.

 

Compared to anyone who thinks this manifesto is anything more realistic than unicorns and leprechauns I am a combination of Albert Einstein, Stephan Hawking,  Linus Pauling, and Neils Bohr.

[wildcat09 29388]

14 hours ago, EMAWesome said:

The part in bold is absolute, complete, and utter bullshit. (Other than the Hillary not killing a DNC staffer).  The IRS and Hillary-uranium stuff has been reported on by sources and reporters far more credible than Hannity and Breitbart.  I've never heard of townhallpatriots so I have no idea them.

Lulz, EMA fell for the Uranium One bullshit? Jesus, that's Q-level nonsense.

[Bash Riprock 1695]

 

[Biff Tannen 45741]

Thanks Daily Caller.  Shut it down I guess.

[yoladu 4094]

On 2/7/2019 at 8:29 AM, GSU&UT said:

I'm sure the usual misogynists on here will claim she's being stupid and has no idea how government works.

 

 

 

OK, that was pretty impressive, considering some of the dumbass stuff we have seen/heard from other House members (on both sides of the aisle).

[troph 24906]

Her campaign finance rants are gold. What we need are young conservatives and young liberals coming at this issue from both sides. She’s dead on bullseye on that issue.

 

For climate change we’ve had so much do nothing even the Paris deal is a far cry from what is really needed. If she’s the leader out of the gate on a real and meaningful approach and that comes with pie in the sky ideas that need to be revised, honed and sharpened then fine. The truth is we need to take drastic action in the next few years and so I welcome the conversation. Electric cars and solar roofs for a select upper middle class folk ain’t gonna do it. We need every single governmental entity making this a priority. When all intelligence agencies are saying it’s a national security threat and potentially the number one threat in the long term we need to act. Countries like Russia don’t care because strategically global warming will make Siberia the world’s breadbasket upending a world order the US has benefited from for hundreds of years. We simply can’t afford not to do something. So I applaud her using her bully pulpit of twitter to advance these conversations and I extend a modicum of patience and forgiveness while the details get hammered out. It’s actually time get this train moving.

 

[Js1 85575]

10 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Someone should tell EMAW that we have now advanced to the point that we know when hurricanes are coming.  Maybe Al Roker is the man for that job.  When hurricanes are coming, evacuation orders are issued and trains don't run. You know that airplanes avoid weather patterns too, no?  And icelandic volcanos. 

Even the NYC subway (much of it actually above ground) was shut down in preparation for Sandy. 

Does this Neanderthal think she wants to eliminate, for instance, LA to Hawaii flights in favor of rail?

Or maybe we can eliminate Dallas-Houston type flights that are 90 min or less in favor of high speed rail. 

[Biff Tannen 45741]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Does this Neanderthal think she wants to eliminate, for instance, LA to Hawaii flights in favor of rail?

Or maybe we can eliminate Dallas-Houston type flights that are 90 min or less in favor of high speed rail. 

Don't worry, people like him will be left behind while the rest of society moves on.  Hopefully he's older and will spend his remaining years shaking his fist from his front porch and not affecting any meaningful change.

[troph 24906]

I’m actually starting to resent folks who will die before global warming really upends our world. Either evaluate the impact on future generations or get out of the way. My kids are gonna be fucked if we don’t fix this soon.

Air travel and oceanic shipping is a rough one - we need it and it may be a place where fossil fuels are required. But the coal and even natural gas plants for electricity need to be dealt with. Same with combustible engines. Renewables and alt transportation modes are viable its time to accelerate additional development and implementation.

[Js1 85575]

10 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Don't worry, people like him will be left behind while the rest of society moves on.  Hopefully he's older and will spend his remaining years shaking his fist from his front porch and not affecting any meaningful change.

Man, I fly Houston to Dallas a few times a year to catch an AA flight to Europe.  I would kill for HSR to get me from Houston to DFW without the flying or driving.

[zork 629]

didn't see this part linked

[Gladeite 375]

14 hours ago, DCA_HORN said:

On 2/6/2019 at 5:59 PM, Brisketexan said:

The Heritage Foundation published an index of "Economic Freedom" -- you know, the type of thing rah-rah capitalist types should LOVE.  The US comes in at 12th place on the list.  Countries with greater economic freedom?  Here they are.  And note something interesting.  All of them -- these countries with MORE economic freedom than the US, per those pinko commies at the Heritage Foundation -- (except for the odd duck Mauritius).....have universal healthcare.

The "hell" that you're describing?  That hell looks like the most economically successful and vibrant places on earth.  And when you expand the list to include entities close to us in economic freedom, the disparity becomes even more apparent.  Literally every western democracy has universal healthcare.  You morons keep saying that having it will lead to hell on earth......utterly ignoring the fact that it works in country, after country, after country.  Many of them with more economic freedom than our own.  You are standing on the moon, looking down at the spinning round earth, and shouting that the world is flat.  You just look silly at this point.
 

Its be interesting to see where those countries rank on immigration and racial relations.

What is interesting is that all of these countries are so much smaller than the U.S.  The largest on the list is 1/10 the size of the U.S in regards to population.  Yes, if the U.S. were the size of Dallas/Fort Worth then there are a lot more things that can be done socially and economically. Figuring out health care for a small, income producing group is not that hard.  What is impossible is having a national health care system for 350 million people that will not bankrupt the country.   The U.S. has an impossible task with Social Security and Medicare.  Universal coverage for this population does not work.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

52 minutes ago, troph said:

Her campaign finance rants are gold. What we need are young conservatives and young liberals coming at this issue from both sides. She’s deadpan bullseye on that issue.

For climate change we’ve had so much do nothing even the Paris deal is a far cry from what is really needed. If she’s the leader out of the gate on a real and meaningful approach and that comes with pie in the sky ideas that need to be revised, honed and sharpened then fine. The truth is we need to take drastic action in the next few years and so I welcome the conversation. Electric cars and solar roofs for a select upper middle class folk ain’t gonna do it. We need every single governmental entity making this a priority. When all intelligence agencies are saying it’s a national security threat and potentially the number one threat in the long term we need to act. Countries like Russia don’t care because strategically global warming will make Siberia the world’s breadbasket upending a world order the US has benefited from for hundreds of years. We simply can’t afford not to do something. So I applaud her using her bully pulpit of twitter to advance these conversations and I extend a modicum of patience and forgiveness while the details get hammered out. It’s actually time get this train moving.

Agree with your comments about campaign finance reform.That is something that anti-establishment progressives and conservatives like myself can get behind wholeheartedly. With respect to the Green New Deal, her 10 year target to be completely carbon neutral is just completely unrealistic and is akin to saying we will have a permanent outpost on Mars by 2030. JimmyJazz made the analogy to Kennedy’s speech setting a target to be on the Moon by the end of the 60s. We were sending rockets to space when he gave that speech so his timeline was feasible and bold and aggressive at the same time. The problem of dealing with climate change is immense. No one has come up with a feasible plan of reducing carbon worldwide without bankrupting first world nations while allowing 3rd world countries the means to modernize themselves with the easiest and cheapest source of power which are fossil fuels. The Yellow Vest movement in France is evidence of the hostile reaction the middle class will have to a possible carbon tax if imposed here. Hypothetically, if the US government devoted all of its resources to implement 100% carbon neutral policies, it would end up destroying the economic foundation on which the prosperity of Texas was built upon. The millions of high paying jobs in the oil and gas industry in this state would no longer exist and Houston would turn into Detroit. How would AOC account for such massive economic dislocation? The response in Texas to such a scenario would make the Yellow Vest movement look like child’s play.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[Biff Tannen 45741]

6 minutes ago, zork said:

didn't see this part linked

Am I wrong, or isn't Citizens United what allows the source of corporate donations to be hidden from the public?

[GSU&UT 1798]

6 minutes ago, Gladeite said:

What is interesting is that all of these countries are so much smaller than the U.S.  The largest on the list is 1/10 the size of the U.S in regards to population.  Yes, if the U.S. were the size of Dallas/Fort Worth then there are a lot more things that can be done socially and economically. Figuring out health care for a small, income producing group is not that hard.  What is impossible is having a national health care system for 350 million people that will not bankrupt the country.   The U.S. has an impossible task with Social Security and Medicare.  Universal coverage for this population does not work.

And there it is, folks we have too many people so therefore a single payer/universal healthcare system won't work. I am an intelligent person.

[Captainant 27772]

1 minute ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Agree with your comments about campaign finance reform.That is something that anti-establishment progressives and conservatives like myself can get behind wholeheartedly. With respect to the Green New Deal, her 10 year target to be completely carbon neutral is just completely unrealistic and is akin to saying we will have a permanent outpost on Mars by 2030. JimmyJazz made the analogy to Kennedy’s speech setting a target to be on the Moon by the end of the 60s. We were sending rockets to space when he gave that speech so his timeline was feasible and bold and aggressive at the same time. The problem of dealing with climate change is immense. No one has come up with a feasible plan of reducing carbon worldwide without bankrupting first world nations while allowing 3rd world countries the means to modernize themselves with the easiest and cheapest source of power which are fossil fuels. The Yellow Vest movement in France is evidence of the hostile reaction the middle class will have to a possible carbon tax if imposed here.

I disagree on your assessment of US space flight capabilities when Kennedy gave his speech. We could barely scratch LEO if the rocket didn't blow up or veer of course. Going to the moon and back, much less even understanding all of the challenges and how we could accomplish it was very much unknown. We didn't even know if people could survive in zero gravity for extended periods of time at that point for fucks sake.

The moon landing was a more insurmountable problem than addressing climate change. We know what is causing the worst of it, we have proven solutions to make a meaningful impact (solar, nukes, carbon sequestration, renewable fuels, etc), the only thing that's stopping us is special interests. The moon landing required the whole-cloth creation of entire fields of academics and engineering, the greatest peacetime federal jobs program since the New Deal, and people taking real human risks every day just to make progress.

The only thing we stand to lose if we pursue a green new deal is some corporate profits, and we never even felt the benefit of those anyways. So fuck em, and fuck the idea that we can't make massive changes to fight climate change. There are solutions out there, it's just that we're too scared to stand up to special interests to even start experimenting and taking financial risks to actually try something new.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

10 minutes ago, Gladeite said:

What is interesting is that all of these countries are so much smaller than the U.S.  The largest on the list is 1/10 the size of the U.S in regards to population.  Yes, if the U.S. were the size of Dallas/Fort Worth then there are a lot more things that can be done socially and economically. Figuring out health care for a small, income producing group is not that hard.  What is impossible is having a national health care system for 350 million people that will not bankrupt the country.   The U.S. has an impossible task with Social Security and Medicare.  Universal coverage for this population does not work.

Exactly. None of those countries on that list have the size and scope of the illegal immigration problem that we do. Elimination of private health insurance for the majority who have employer provided plans in favor of single payer that millions would take advantage of as illegals not paying into the system would create tremendous anger and strife amongst a big segment of this country including myself. Also, the fact that Ireland, Denmark, etc are ethnically homogeneous can’t be ignored in comparison to what we have here and our history when it comes to race.

[Brisketexan 105337]

11 minutes ago, Gladeite said:

What is interesting is that all of these countries are so much smaller than the U.S.  The largest on the list is 1/10 the size of the U.S in regards to population.  Yes, if the U.S. were the size of Dallas/Fort Worth then there are a lot more things that can be done socially and economically. Figuring out health care for a small, income producing group is not that hard.  What is impossible is having a national health care system for 350 million people that will not bankrupt the country.   The U.S. has an impossible task with Social Security and Medicare.  Universal coverage for this population does not work.

Dollars are dollars.  We the people already spend trillions on healthcare.  All we're discussing is flow.

John Q. Public currently (2017 data) spends $3.5 trillion on healthcare, a total of $10,700 per person.  As a percentage of GDP, it's around 17%.  The countries listed spend around HALF of that, both in per person and as a percentage of GDP.

WE ARE ALREADY SPENDING A METRIC SHITTON ON HEALTHCARE.  What we're discussing is a way to get more bang for our buck in terms of 1) individual access, 2) reduced costs (profit is a big element in healthcare costs, for example), and 3) the broader social (and thus economic) benefit of having a population that misses fewer sick days, and doesn't go bankrupt if they do get sick.

Percentage of GDP.  Per capita dollars.  What doesn't work for this population is the wackadoo system we have that manages to be the worst of both worlds.

[Fozzz 152]

4 minutes ago, zork said:

didn't see this part linked

lol this guy is a fucking idiot.  She asked him a question about his article about how it's not illegal for outside groups (soft money) to make hush money payments, and then he turns around and starts talking about hard money for some reason and how it would be illegal to use that for hush money payments.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Foosters 17888]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dollars are dollars.  We the people already spend trillions on healthcare.  All we're discussing is flow.

John Q. Public currently (2017 data) spends $3.5 trillion on healthcare, a total of $10,700 per person.  As a percentage of GDP, it's around 17%.  The countries listed spend around HALF of that, both in per person and as a percentage of GDP.

WE ARE ALREADY SPENDING A METRIC SHITTON ON HEALTHCARE.  What we're discussing is a way to get more bang for our buck in terms of 1) individual access, 2) reduced costs (profit is a big element in healthcare costs, for example), and 3) the broader social (and thus economic) benefit of having a population that misses fewer sick days, and doesn't go bankrupt if they do get sick.

Percentage of GDP.  Per capita dollars.  What doesn't work for this population is the wackadoo system we have that manages to be the worst of both worlds.

Sorry, didn't you hear? We are not ethnically homogeneous so single payer wont work.

[Captainant 27772]

Just now, Foosters said:

Sorry, didn't you hear? We are not ethnically homogeneous so single payer wont work.

What, do you expect icono to go to the same hospital as people who don't have his skin color?