Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Bama Chick 28596]

Why don’t we ask him to go through the thread and make a judgment on which one of us has the habit of shitting on every single thread they post in?

I doubt a post of a punchline picture post compares to the pages of moronic ramblings you subject the rest of us to daily.

Seems like I remember being the only person to make a post in this thread yesterday about AOC and asking y’all to quit blathering and get back on topic.

But you do you, ya tattletaling little whiner.

[mdmost 43043]

You've basically become Rocko in this forum with your autoresponse of "Troll". It's the equivalent of his "yawn" response.

[YChang 3462]

9 hours ago, zork said:

There is a ton of gross generality in there, filled with ambiguity and preferring people of color over non for whatever reason going forward.  

Can you tell me more what you read that made you feel/think this way?

Agreed that there's a lot of generality in there. I'm not a policy nut but is it expected in a resolution to spell out all the details or is it meant to serve more as a framework/guide? 

Was it this line? 

Quote

4 (C) providing resources, training, and high-quality education, including higher education, to all people of the United States, with a focus on frontline and vulnerable communities, so that all people of the United States may be full and equal participants in the Green New Deal mobilization;

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by YChang

[Horn Dog 9910]

21 hours ago, tjhooker said:

where is it a right to make a certain amount of money?  Just curious.  The word right is overused.  I guess a right now is anything you want it to be.  Is this an unalienable right mentioned in the Declaration of Independence?  I am sure some you of will do some mental hurdles to apply it to that though.

Right to Life can reasonably be interpreted to mean that you have a right to a certain level of health care.  Obviously it is debatable what that certain level of health care is, but we as a society have decided this is true, otherwise we would be throwing dying poor people out of ERs which we don’t do.  We just pay for it via higher taxes and medical insurance premiums.  

Right to Life can also reasonably be interpreted as a right to to basic things needed for life (food, shelter) and thus possibly a “living wage”.  Again, very subjective what that level is, but this is currently supported by our society in the form of food stamps, housing assistance, etc.

Again, you can disagree with the specifics, and I personally don’t agree with where AOC likely wants to draw the line, but the basis of BASIC health care and BASIC means for survival as rights is not far fetched and already an accepted norm in our society.

[jimmyjazz 46116]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

This isn't the trump thread, this is the AOC thread - stay on topic. 

 

Sidenote observation (not my moderator opinion): Can't you guys just fucking leave party politics out of this shit and discuss issues/people? I swear reading this disaster of a thread is the reason that this place has turned into an "echo chamber" all you guys do is argue for the sake of argument - IMHO don't fucking post unless you are open to being convinced of another position other than your own. It isn't your fucking duty to convince all of the surlyhorns users on your god damned political agenda, but CR so fuck me right?

What the hell?

It's almost like you're new here.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

This isn't the trump thread, this is the AOC thread - stay on topic. 

 

Sidenote observation (not my moderator opinion): Can't you guys just fucking leave party politics out of this shit and discuss issues/people? I swear reading this disaster of a thread is the reason that this place has turned into an "echo chamber" all you guys do is argue for the sake of argument - IMHO don't fucking post unless you are open to being convinced of another position other than your own. It isn't your fucking duty to convince all of the surlyhorns users on your god damned political agenda, but CR so fuck me right?

It would be awesome if we had more conservatives that could argue and defend their positions with thoughtful analysis. 

[Pam Cummings 9658]

1 hour ago, tjhooker said:

Troll

You're a child. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

This isn't the trump thread, this is the AOC thread - stay on topic. 

 

Sidenote observation (not my moderator opinion): Can't you guys just fucking leave party politics out of this shit and discuss issues/people? I swear reading this disaster of a thread is the reason that this place has turned into an "echo chamber" all you guys do is argue for the sake of argument - IMHO don't fucking post unless you are open to being convinced of another position other than your own. It isn't your fucking duty to convince all of the surlyhorns users on your god damned political agenda, but CR so fuck me right?

Well...... yeah....

[David Dennison 18946]

Onboard gets it.

[David Dennison 18946]

6 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

that's BS.  We could have William F. Buckley back from the dead in here and y'all would call him an idiot troll.

William F. Buckley was an idiot troll. Gore Vidal out front should have told you.

[SimonBolivar 10959]

5 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

that's BS.  We could have William F. Buckley back from the dead in here and y'all would call him an idiot troll.

Well he did call Trump a demagogue and a narcissist, so maybe not.

 

Quote

Look for the narcissist. The most obvious target in today’s lineup is, of course, Donald Trump. When he looks at a glass, he is mesmerized by its reflection. If Donald Trump were shaped a little differently, he would compete for Miss America. But whatever the depths of self-enchantment, the demagogue has to say something. So what does Trump say? That he is a successful businessman and that that is what America needs in the Oval Office. There is some plausibility in this, though not much. The greatest deeds of American Presidents — midwifing the new republic; freeing the slaves; harnessing the energies and vision needed to win the Cold War — had little to do with a bottom line.

 

[jimmyjazz 46116]

Even if being a successful businessman were an important qualification for the Oval Office, Donald Trump doesn't meet that standard.  Nobody with a functioning brain stem could observe his utterly unfocused, shoot-from-the-hip and consequences-be-damned style of "negotiation", not to mention his long track record of achievement by bullying and bankruptcy, and conclude this man is a titan of business.  He's a titan of Trump, that's it.  A common con man, a fool, and a coward.

[HenryJames 66167]

 

[Homercles 10206]

You've basically become Rocko in this forum with your autoresponse of "Troll". It's the equivalent of his "yawn" response.

Every accusation a confession?

[Zavala 1384]

12 hours ago, tjhooker said:

Is this the AOC thread or Trump thread. Getting awfully confused or did the usual turn it into a BUT TTRRRUUUMMMPPP thread? 

This is the Trump forum, enter at your own risk

[Pescado_Rojo 19428]

They're talking AOC on the Trump thread...only on Surly. 

[zork 629]

1 hour ago, YChang said:

Can you tell me more what you read that made you feel/think this way?

Agreed that there's a lot of generality in there. I'm not a policy nut but is it expected in a resolution to spell out all the details or is it meant to serve more as a framework/guide? 

Was it this line? 

2 hours ago, YChang said:

4 (C) providing resources, training, and high-quality education, including higher education, to all people of the United States, with a focus on frontline and vulnerable communities, so that all people of the United States may be full and equal participants in the Green New Deal mobilization;

 

EEOC language should be used if they want to be taken seriously, not preferences of any type.

There are lots of references to preference, the way I read it, for perceived injustices with no clarification on how to fairly administer or recognize these, for example,  people of color or indigenous populations, etc, etc vs fairness regardless of EEOC type general statements.(no discrimination on race, religion, creed, etc, etc)

Here is another but if you read you can find more:

Quote

Whereas climate change, pollution, and environmental destruction have exacerbated systemic racial, regional, social, environmental, and economic injustices (referred to in this preamble as “systemic injustices”) by disproportionately affecting indigenous peoples, communities of color, migrant communities, deindustrialized communities, depopulated rural communities, the poor, low-income workers, women, the elderly, the unhoused, people with disabilities, and youth (referred to in this preamble as “frontline and vulnerable communities”);

WTF?  I guess you could clearly say that people who are poor are going to be living in the low lying areas because it is cheaper to buy/rent there and you may not have an alternative.(which makes you susceptible to flooding)  I can understand that.  More: 

Spoiler

 

Maybe the conflation of this one is with the poor parts of the world that might be affected if the seas rise but that is not a US Federal government concern unless it is for our coastal regions IMHO(and even then we should not provide incentive to build in low lying disaster prone areas).  That quote above is truly a WTF type of grandiose sounding but saying nothing conglomeration of words.

Sure poor people are at a disadvantage on a lot of things though but that is all poor people.  This country was built on poor people working hard to better themselves, not on federal guarantees of jobs/healthcare/housing/phones/etc/etc.  The free rider problem is glaring in these types of existing and proposed federal guarantees. 

It is a delicate balance on a hand up to help the truly needy due to injury/etc and creating a class of people with little incentive to get off the help who might be sarcastically described as a 'free shit army' in the pejorative sense.  There will always be people who settle for the basics when there is no time limit to get off the help.

 I'm a big believer/proponent on incentive based help when given and limiting via time to give people a push to take the job instead of the handout after a fair amount of time.(now especially with reported unemployment where it is)  Life isn't easy.  Work is a four letter word and isn't always fun or rewarding.  But providing incentive to work over free shit is one of the most important American goals IMHO.(with  guaranteed Federal jobs pushing out, substituition effect, private enterprise)

 

Another reference:

Quote

(E) to promote justice and equity by stopping current, preventing future, and repairing historic oppression of indigenous peoples, communities of color, migrant communities, deindustrialized communities, depopulated rural communities, the poor, low-income workers, women, the elderly, the unhoused, people with disabilities, and youth (referred to in this resolution as “frontline and vulnerable communities”);

So reparations?  Federal insulation from being low income or poor?  WTF?  If the Feds guarantee virtually any of that it would devastate the private sector.  So the Feds are supposed to go into the coal areas and re-industrialize through Federal job guarantees?  Or how exactly is this quote to be implemented and how is it decided who gets the help?  SBA type rules?  In summary:

Spoiler

 

I think this whole GND is an intentional vast over-reach of grandiose pie in the sky bullshit that will make normally just grandiose bullshit look relatively normal in comparison.  Push the narrative beyond and then maybe you get a little from people who would not have considered anything in real time or in real terms.

I'd be ok with extending the Solar, Wind, incentives for a few years more.  I'd be ok with doubling or even trebling the SBA funding levels to provide incentive to more private small businesses along EEOC terms.  Provide incentives for developing new technology related to  carbon sinks that turn CO2 into useful carbon products or derivatives.  Provide incentives that help create better batteries from non-rare earth metals/substances.  Provide incentives that help utilize and find/discover technology to store the excess wind power at night problem.  I think a lot of the R&D I am generally ok with is already being dispersed to a certain exent in University grants, etc.   Changing the focus to solutions to whatever climate is to come instead of models of measuring should be the focus of any Federal funds provided.

  

 

 

[David Dennison 18946]

 

12 minutes ago, zork said:

I think this whole GND is an intentional vast over-reach of grandiose pie in the sky bullshit that will make normally just grandiose bullshit look relatively normal in comparison.  Push the narrative beyond and then maybe you get a little from people who would not have considered anything in real time or in real terms.

I'd be ok with extending the Solar, Wind, incentives for a few years more.  I'd be ok with doubling or even trebling the SBA funding levels to provide incentive to more private small businesses along EEOC terms.  Provide incentives for developing new technology related to  carbon sinks that turn CO2 into useful carbon products or derivatives.  Provide incentives that help create better batteries from non-rare earth metals/substances.  Provide incentives that help utilize and find/discover technology to store the excess wind power at night problem.  I think a lot of the R&D I am generally ok with is already being dispersed to a certain exent in University grants, etc.   Changing the focus to solutions to whatever climate is to come instead of models of measuring should be the focus of any Federal funds provided.

It appears AOC's GND resoultion is working exactly as planned.

[YChang 3462]

13 minutes ago, zork said:

In summary:

  Hide contents

 

I think this whole GND is an intentional vast over-reach of grandiose pie in the sky bullshit that will make normally just grandiose bullshit look relatively normal in comparison.  Push the narrative beyond and then maybe you get a little from people who would not have considered anything in real time or in real terms.

I'd be ok with extending the Solar, Wind, incentives for a few years more.  I'd be ok with doubling or even trebling the SBA funding levels to provide incentive to more private small businesses along EEOC terms.  Provide incentives for developing new technology related to  carbon sinks that turn CO2 into useful carbon products or derivatives.  Provide incentives that help create better batteries from non-rare earth metals/substances.  Provide incentives that help utilize and find/discover technology to store the excess wind power at night problem.  I think a lot of the R&D I am generally ok with is already being dispersed to a certain exent in University grants, etc.   Changing the focus to solutions to whatever climate is to come instead of models of measuring should be the focus of any Federal funds provided.

  

 

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response and I agree with David above... I don't really think the delta between the intent of GND and what you described is that far off.

[Rimbo 26062]

‘New York Post’ Publishes Report Exposing Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s 9-Figure Social Security Number

[zork 629]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

 

It appears AOC's GND resoultion is working exactly as planned.

I would have had the same opinion before.  I'm a big R&D guy proponent.  The solar and wind incentives have been a boon to the industry, Solindra type Federal action not so much IMHO (tough picking winners and losers type deal that is hard to keep from happening).  Let the consumer have a say in who they pick keeps invisible hand and less cronyism, perhaps.  Limiting it to USA only companies I'd be ok with if done correctly.  

1 minute ago, YChang said:

Thanks for your thoughtful response and I agree with David above... I don't really think the delta between the intent of GND and what you described is that far off.

I think the GND as written is way worse, regardless of intent, in general wrt reality. 

High speed rail was just canceled in uber green CA. Etc.   Almost all of the proposals are general and pie in the sky with dangerous Federal government implications wrt crowding out the private sector.  That last 5 words, in italics, is a huge disaster in the making if it happens to any extent much less to the levels described/implied in GND implications of it.

 

 

[Rimbo 26062]

9 minutes ago, zork said:

High speed rail was just canceled in uber green CA.

 

Link?

[YChang 3462]

1 minute ago, Rimbo said:

Link?

Come on, you know what he meant. 

[zork 629]

10 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Link?

It does look like it was simplified in the early reporting with more 'canceled' talk and Newsome has clarified since the original speech.  

https://www.fresnobee.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/marek-warszawski/article226299115.html

 

Pruned it back with the part still committed as being lower end usage than the other, and reasonably way difficult to do with any type of budget, being shelved till later.(if at all, kicking the can for that down the road almost a decade)

Quote

What Newsom meant, as expressed in subsequent words and later on Twitter, is that the project was being pruned. A “high-speed rail link” (whatever that means) between Bakersfield and Merced will be seen through to completion, and after that we’ll see what comes next.

By Newsom’s timeline, the Bakersfield to Merced line will be completed by 2027. Coincidentally, that’s right around the time his time as governor is up — provided he gets re-elected.

After that, the coffers will be empty and private funding or federal money would be needed to advance the project to the Bay Area and Los Angeles.

Which then becomes the next governor’s problem, not his.

 

9 minutes ago, YChang said:

Come on, you know what he meant. 

I generalized a bit too much on it.  The mostly relevant areas where you would expect the most traffic, but highest cost areas to build/procure, are shelved.(which I described as canceled)

Edited March 5, 2019 by zork

[Rimbo 26062]

9 minutes ago, YChang said:

Come on, you know what he meant. 

Well, he just told me that it was cancelled, and I would just like to know if he knows what it means to be cancelled. I would not like to think that someone would tell someone else it was cancelled, and then find out that that person has no idea what it means to be cancelled.

[zork 629]

3 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Well, he just told me that it was cancelled, and I would just like to know if he knows what it means to be cancelled. I would not like to think that someone would tell someone else it was cancelled, and then find out that that person has no idea what it means to be cancelled.

How would you describe the near term future of high speed rail in CA?  Especially given the 12 year time frame referenced by AOC in her discussions of the GND and climate change in general?  Will Newsome change his mind to push to increase high speed rail connectivity throughout CA and connections beyond in partnership with Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, and/or the Federal plans surely to come in the GND?  /mostly Sarc but I am interested in your opinion say over the next 5 years, 10 years, 20 years for high speed rail prospects in CA and beyond in the USA?

[jimmyjazz 46116]

37 minutes ago, YChang said:

Come on, you know what he meant. 

Oh, so zork spoke in a somewhat vague generality, making context key, with regards to a hot button issue?

That never happens, anywhere, ever.

I wonder if AOC has ever done that?

[Rimbo 26062]

20 minutes ago, zork said:

How would you describe the near term future of high speed rail in CA?  Especially given the 12 year time frame referenced by AOC in her discussions of the GND and climate change in general?  Will Newsome change his mind to push to increase high speed rail connectivity throughout CA and connections beyond in partnership with Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, and/or the Federal plans surely to come in the GND?  /mostly Sarc but I am interested in your opinion say over the next 5 years, 10 years, 20 years for high speed rail prospects in CA and beyond in the USA?

In a way, all of us has a high-speed rail project to face. For some, shyness might be their high-speed rail project. For others, a lack of education might be their high-speed rail project. For us, the high-speed rail project is a big, expensive project that is way over budget. But as sure as my name is Rimbo, the people of California can conquer their own personal high-speed rail project, which also happens to be the actual high-speed rail project!

Edited March 5, 2019 by Rimbo

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

55 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Well, he just told me that it was cancelled, and I would just like to know if he knows what it means to be cancelled. I would not like to think that someone would tell someone else it was cancelled, and then find out that that person has no idea what it means to be cancelled.

Can you cancel all the cancels please ?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

She corrects the record to indicate this video was from earlier but the point still stands.

 

 

 

[RomaVicta 30008]

21 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

She corrects the record to indicate this video was from earlier but the point still stands.

 

 

 

Nice that Junior Trump can slide in a shot at #metoo.  Touch my cow and I'll shoot your ass. Not so much when it comes to women.

Then Donny delivers the capper, "I love cows, they're delicious!" The forced chuckling after that lame joke is painful. They really don't do humor well.

[Fozzz 152]

This is so weak.

 

 

[Rimbo 26062]

58 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Can you cancel all the cancels please ?

Are cancels falling from the sky?

[HtownHorn 14771]

Speaking of cancels, AOC's boyfriend just had his .gov email address canceled. So much for needing access to her calendar.

[bad_teammate 13224]

41 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Speaking of cancels, AOC's boyfriend just had his .gov email address canceled. So much for needing access to her calendar.

It's a weird, weird world in which this information is sought, known, spread, and cared about.

[hobbes2702 13061]

1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

Speaking of cancels, AOC's boyfriend just had his .gov email address canceled. So much for needing access to her calendar.

Ok cool

[EuroHorn 3268]

[Pam Cummings 9658]

1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

Speaking of cancels, AOC's boyfriend just had his .gov email address canceled. So much for needing access to her calendar.

You're out of your element, Donny.

[Post Oak 20261]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

She corrects the record to indicate this video was from earlier but the point still stands.

 

 

 

First graduating class from the Mike Huckabee School of Comedy 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

From AOC Is A Witch to Her Boyfriend Lost His .gov E-mail is a pretty big drop-off.

[Grandioso 2592]

Falwell sounds drunk in both those videos.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

So does Lindsey's.

[Dahobbs 17679]

10 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

I am an ass-hat

Made up quotes are fun. 

[HtownHorn 14771]

12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Vogue says hi.

[elfenix 34332]

her hands are twice the size of trump's

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Whoever the first person was to ridicule Trump for his small hands should get some kind of award.   I know it happened long before he became president in a letter or article by someone he fucked over.

[BillyBadAss 189]

I read the GND text. I support a good number of the items mentioned in it, but it almost feels like it's trying to turn people off to it rather than get people behind it. 

For instance: 

"Whereas climate change, pollution, and environmental destruction have exacerbated systemic racial, regional, social, environmental, and economic injustices (referred to in this preamble as “systemic injustices”) by disproportionately affecting indigenous peoples, communities of color, migrant communities, deindustrialized communities, depopulated rural communities, the poor, low-income workers, women, the elderly, the unhoused, people with disabilities, and youth (referred to in this preamble as “frontline and vulnerable communities”);"

 

Do you need that statement to make the case the climate change is a huge problem and needs to be addressed aggressively? 

I would be trying to frame it that climate change affects us all, and to a large extent all equally. But that statement frames it in terms of race and injustice which obviously brings baggage into the issue. It just doesn't seem helpful to the cause.  

 

[mdmost 43043]

Saying her hands are bigger than minihands Trump isn't a BUT TRUMP. If anyone is stuck in a loop, it's you. 

[elfenix 34332]

6 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

BUT TRRRUUMPPP 

So funny.  It is like a program stuck on a loop. 

10 RUN PROGRAM

20 IF AOC THEN BUT TTTRRRUUUMMMPPP

30 GOTO LINE 20

when your only skill is shitposting on message boards, both literally and figuratively, you go with what you've got.