Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[tx 3 putt 77234]

Her republican challenger will Rake  it in if they play their cards right 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Good, I hope GOP donors waste as much of their money as possible trying to win that district. 

[retread 2951]

14 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Wow. Just wow. I'm awed by how she handled that [... CBP circulating memes of AOC being raped]. 

I want to thank the hysterical right for introducing me to AOC and, through your vile acts, allowing me to see what a shining person she is. 

Even if I disagreed with her politics and policy ideas, I don't see how you can maintain any respect for yourself if you can't find a way to respect a person like this. 

Imagine how a R congressman would have acted while questioning the head of a dept. that circulated vile memes of him.

She handled it beautifully.

[bad_teammate 13220]

Centrists can't grab attention because they have nothing interesting or useful to offer. Their goal is to marginally improve our waking hell and then become lobbyists.

All you need are bold ideas. Paul Ryan got very famous for promoting bold ideas.

Centrists are just shit, that's why people don't care about them.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

You’re being mean to centrists.  They’ve just been hoodwinked and fear mongered into believing the crippling status quo is actually good and we should stay here.  It’s a very easy con to buy into when you completely lack imagination or inspiration.

[jimmyjazz 46000]

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Centrists are just shit, that's why people don't care about them.

That's just stupid.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Seriously.   Shake off your conditioning, people, and take another look at the last 30 years.   What has third way/New Democrat moderation done for the party or the country?   What left-of-center success is there to point to?  Now look at the Republican swing to the far right over the last 30 years.   They've been massively successful at getting numerous right-wing priorities enacted.   Moderation = fail.

Our country has a two-party system that produces left-of-center moderation over long periods of time by the conflict between the two sides.    If one side moderates, it pushes everything towards the other extreme.  That's just how it's proven to work time and time again. 

[tchookem 3905]

 

 

 

Centrists can't grab attention because they have nothing interesting or useful to offer. Their goal is to marginally improve our waking hell and then become lobbyists.

 

All you need are bold ideas. Paul Ryan got very famous for promoting bold ideas.

 

Centrists are just shit, that's why people don't care about them.

 

Crafting a compromise can be more difficult than developing a hardline plan. Getting both sides to accept it takes just as much work and is usually the most effective way to move everyone forward. Don't discount a sincere centerist with a plan.

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

25 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Centrists can't grab attention because they have nothing interesting or useful to offer. Their goal is to marginally improve our waking hell and then become lobbyists.

All you need are bold ideas. Paul Ryan got very famous for promoting bold ideas.

Centrists are just shit, that's why people don't care about them.

Our waking hell ?  You really are a miserable piece of work.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

4 minutes ago, tchookem said:

 

 

Crafting a compromise can be more difficult than developing a hardline plan. Getting both sides to accept it takes just as much work and is usually the most effective way to move forward. Don't discount a sincere centerist with a plan.

 

A compromise is generally somewhere in the middle.   To produce a centrist compromise, you either need two roughly centrist sides or two further extremes.   A compromise between a centrist and extreme right-wingers doesn't result in centrism, but rather right-wing policies. That's been exactly the problem over the last 30 years. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Mojo Hand

[ChickenSandwich 9844]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Centrists can't grab attention because they have nothing interesting or useful to offer. Their goal is to marginally improve our waking hell and then become lobbyists.

All you need are bold ideas. Paul Ryan got very famous for promoting bold ideas.

Centrists are just shit, that's why people don't care about them.

Let’s throw off the shackles of the Cloak Room Moniker and rust rename the board ANTIFA 

Party used to represent family, the working and middle class. How horrible it was. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by ChickenSandwich

[David Dennison 18940]

1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Let’s throw off the shackles of the Cloak Room Moniker and rust rename the board ANTIFA 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

4 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Let’s throw off the shackles of the Cloak Room Moniker and rust rename the board ANTIFA 

Party used to represent family, the working and middle class. How horrible it was. 

Policies like M4A, college tuition and student loan help, universal child care, and the rest of the proposals from Warren and Sanders are for families, the working class, and the middle class.  Far more so than the policies of centrists and Republicans. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

9 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

policies of centrists and Republicans. 

I could be way off here but it seems like their policies are about removing the rights of people inside the United States (voter suppression, mass incarceration, hardline on abortion, and generally increasing the barriers to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness by serving only the people at the top of the pyramid who have the sole purpose of exploiting the population for insane profits.) 

but those progressive democrats are fucking crazy with their shrill voices and pro democracy agenda. 

[tantric superman 4667]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You’re being mean to centrists.  They’ve just been hoodwinked and fear mongered into believing the crippling status quo is actually good and we should stay here.  It’s a very easy con to buy into when you completely lack imagination or inspiration.

I've been "hoodwinked" because I think the best policy is to balance the budget, have a progressive tax structure, increase the minimum wage, focus on climate change and better and more accessible public education, keep working on improving Obamacare?  All while maintaining relatively free markets and being socially liberal?

Just because I don't like the status quo doesn't mean I want to be hoodwinked into buying into terrible social policies or applauding every woke meme out there.

 

[tantric superman 4667]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

but those progressive democrats are fucking crazy with their shrill voices and pro democracy agenda.

I could be way off here but it seems like their policies are about making sure one is pure in their parroting of social victimhood canards (MeToo-sim, Only black and brown voices are legit, fuck the police, hardline on abortion rights, and generally increasing the place of government in our daily lives and increasing the percentage of wealth linked to government programs, and thereby making pursing life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness a more focused and singular proposition.) 

[RomaVicta 29949]

7 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I've been "hoodwinked" because I think the best policy is to balance the budget, have a progressive tax structure, increase the minimum wage, focus on climate change and better and more accessible public education, keep working on improving Obamacare?  All while maintaining relatively free markets and being socially liberal?

Just because I don't like the status quo doesn't mean I want to be hoodwinked into buying into terrible social policies or applauding every woke meme out there.

 

You got my vote.

[David Dennison 18940]

4 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I could be way off here but it seems like their policies are about making sure one is pure in their parroting of social victimhood canards (MeToo-sim, Only black and brown voices are legit, fuck the police, hardline on abortion rights, and generally increasing the place of government in our daily lives and increasing the percentage of wealth linked to government programs, and thereby making pursing life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness a more focused and singular proposition.) 

Not their policies, their politics.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I've been "hoodwinked" because I think the best policy is to balance the budget, have a progressive tax structure, increase the minimum wage, focus on climate change and better and more accessible public education, keep working on improving Obamacare?  All while maintaining relatively free markets and being socially liberal?

Just because I don't like the status quo doesn't mean I want to be hoodwinked into buying into terrible social policies or applauding every woke meme out there.

 

You’re not a centrist, you’re a progressive and you just don’t know it. 

[seven 1367]

On 7/16/2019 at 10:17 PM, Johnny Sack said:

with illegal drugs or weapons in your car.  Otherwise, driving while black isn’t really going to impact your future.  

I would just like to point out that Sack has at numerous times talked about his weed and gun stash he keeps in his truck toolbox.

[RomaVicta 29949]

16 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I could be way off here but it seems like their policies are about making sure one is pure in their parroting of social victimhood canards (MeToo-sim, Only black and brown voices are legit, fuck the police, hardline on abortion rights, and generally increasing the place of government in our daily lives and increasing the percentage of wealth linked to government programs, and thereby making pursing life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness a more focused and singular proposition.) 

Uh oh. Maybe you don't have my vote.

I agree with your cautions about the place of government (certainly not the womb or outside the window of a citizen) but disagree with your characterization about parroting canards. You overstate by a great deal in your parenthetical.

Me Too and racial issues can be taken to absurd extremes in individual cases, but I'm happy to support shining light on and taking action against sex-harassers, those who blow off race-based abuses of citizens, and the abuse of power by the police.

On the other side (clearly you are no part of it), you have extremists distorting the meaning of Black Lives Matter (to wicked ends) and getting exasperated that so many men are being accused of sexual misconduct in the workplace. I'd rather actually parrot supposed canards and come across as a goofball activist for minorities and women than breath a cubic inch of the same air as the other side.

You're a thoughtful person. In this case, I believe you are too dismissive. Or maybe I'm not reading you correctly.

edit: for tldr of this see Dennison above. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by RomaVicta
Compliments to Dennison

[Mojo Hand 4580]

21 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I've been "hoodwinked" because I think the best policy is to balance the budget, have a progressive tax structure, increase the minimum wage, focus on climate change and better and more accessible public education, keep working on improving Obamacare?  All while maintaining relatively free markets and being socially liberal?

Just because I don't like the status quo doesn't mean I want to be hoodwinked into buying into terrible social policies or applauding every woke meme out there.

 

Believing in those things doesn't mean that you're hoodwinked.   But I think it's a mistake to think that you can achieve those things by voting for centrist Democrats.  We have to go way left before you can move things back to the center.   All of the things on your list have either stayed the same or gotten worse over the last 30 years of Dem centrism.  Obamacare is the only bit of breakthrough, but it took the chance event of 60 Dem votes in the senate for a tiny passing window, so it was Dems negotiating with other Dems.  Even then, because of centrist Dems like Blanche Lincoln, it's full of shittiness, led to 6 years of losing elections, and is on the verge of being struck down.  

Vote way left.   Get centrist compromises at worst, progressive policies at best.   If things go too far left for you, vote more to the right at that point to rein things back.  That's the only way our system works. 

[retread 2951]

There's probably a better way to put it, but people are energized b/c AOC's ideas are aimed at fixing a problem. They're big ideas. Rs will complain that they're Socialist and far left.

Instead of looking at that as a deal breaker, maybe members of Congress on both sides could look at it as a starting point? It seems like Rs and Ds in Congress don't even communicate with each other anymore.

[Smax 3800]

15 minutes ago, retread said:

There's probably a better way to put it, but people are energized b/c AOC's ideas are aimed at fixing a problem. They're big ideas. Rs will complain that they're Socialist and far left.

Instead of looking at that as a deal breaker, maybe members of Congress on both sides could look at it as a starting point? It seems like Rs and Ds in Congress don't even communicate with each other anymore.

 

 

the only ones energized by aoc and the quartet are the vocal minority

[jimmyjazz 46000]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You’re not a centrist, you’re a progressive and you just don’t know it. 

That's not really true in any historical perspective.  Both parties moved right -- what used to be center is now center-left.  What he advocates is absolutely a reasonable, moderate platform, but the hysteria from both the Tea Party and the bad_teammates of the world try to redefine everything in some sort of idiotic new normal.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's not really true in any historical perspective.  Both parties moved right -- what used to be center is now center-left.  What he advocates is absolutely a reasonable, moderate platform, but the hysteria from both the Tea Party and the bad_teammates of the world try to redefine everything in some sort of idiotic new normal.

In a philosophical sense he’s not for maintaining the status quo like a centrist.  He’s for using the power of the government to move society to a better place that is aligned with our egalitarian and democratic values.  That makes him a progressive, perhaps more of a Theodore Roosevelt progressive, but a progressive nonetheless.  

People advocating for moving to the right of where we are need to make a compelling case without infringing on the civil and human rights of others.  That doesn’t seem like an easy thing to do.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[David Dennison 18940]

45 minutes ago, Smax said:

the only ones energized by aoc and the quartet are the vocal minority

That sounds familiar. 

[tantric superman 4667]

2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

You overstate by a great deal in your parenthetical.

The whole post was a satire of Hugo's characterization of the policies of centrists and republicans, so there was indeed much overstatement.

 

 

[tantric superman 4667]

1 hour ago, retread said:

There's probably a better way to put it, but people are energized b/c AOC's ideas are aimed at fixing a problem.

In my perfect world they'd be doing the first drafts of all sorts of potential game changing legislation.

And then someone else (me, Joe Biden's smartest kid, Pete B., maybe Will Hurd, the gay guy from Fox, and a revolving group of surly contributers) would redline the ever living fuck of it.

[RomaVicta 29949]

9 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

The whole post was a satire of Hugo's characterization of the policies of centrists and republicans, so there was indeed much overstatement.

 

 

[NowThis 931]

too soon? 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

No, too stupid. 

[Underdog 28754]

Should be tweeted to the orange one. 

[retread 2951]

41 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

In my perfect world they'd be doing the first drafts of all sorts of potential game changing legislation.

And then someone else (me, Joe Biden's smartest kid, Pete B., maybe Will Hurd, the gay guy from Fox, and a revolving group of surly contributers) would redline the ever living fuck of it.

It's not like everyone in Congress hasn't negotiated business deals, salaries, house purchases, etc. in their lives. It seems like nothing like that happens in Congress anymore. I think ACA had several R amendments included in it. There were hearings and discussions about it. 

The Rs came within a hair of repealing ACA, and as far as I know they didn't have a replacement plan. At least they didn't have one that had been debated/amended/etc. I'm sure they had an old Word document on one of Newt Gingrich's old computers that they could've use. Or Susan Collins and Joe Manchin had worked out how 1/6th of our economy should work.

Edited July 20, 2019 by retread

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

35 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

The whole post was a satire of Hugo's characterization of the policies of centrists and republicans, so there was indeed much overstatement.

Centrists only act as an obstacle to change in either direction.  That’s what makes them centrists.  The have no ideology except “we’re not doing that because it’s radical.”  Centrists define normal things as radical. Universal healthcare, gun control, taking in refugees, and advocating for US leadership on climate change are pretty much agreed upon topics in the rest of the civilized world.  Yet, the centrists aren’t in agreement on what to do with these issues which makes them pushovers for hard pulls in either direction.  It’s a big part of how we got here with Trump. 

Self identifying centrists seem like they want to call themselves centrist to give an impression they’re open minded to the arguments on “both sides” when what they’re really saying is, “I don’t care enough to have a fully formed opinion so let’s not do anything drastic.”  

Votes straight ticket GOP

because socialism and open borders are scary.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[jimmyjazz 46000]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Centrists only act as an obstacle to change in either direction.  That’s what makes them centrists.  The have no ideology except “we’re not doing that because it’s radical.”  Centrists define normal things as radical. Universal healthcare, gun control, taking in refugees, and advocating for US leadership on climate change are pretty much agreed upon topics in the rest of the civilized world.  Yet, the centrists aren’t in agreement on what to do with these issues which makes them pushovers for hard pulls in either direction.  It’s a big part of how we got here with Trump. 

Self identifying centrists seem like they want to call themselves centrist to give an impression they’re open minded to the arguments on “both sides” when what they’re really saying is, “I don’t care enough to have a fully formed opinion so let’s not do anything drastic.”  

Votes straight ticket GOP

because socialism and open borders are scary.

Again, this is fucking ridiculous.  It's entirely possible to have a conviction that lands in between two extremes.  What you are saying is phenomenally offensive, and it's exactly why Democrats continue to shoot themselves in the foot over and over again.

For fuck's sake. Stop with the Aggie firing squad bullshit.  It's incredibly damaging.  

[tantric superman 4667]

 

cen·trist

/ˈsentrəst/

1. having moderate political views or policies.

   "a centrist politician"

noun

noun: centrist; plural noun: centrists

1. 1.

   a person who holds moderate political views.

Origin

 

Hugo.  One of the things I would try to pass if I were elected would be to phase out income social security by putting everyone on privatized IRA plans.  Everyone would be placed in a Target Date (birth date plus 65) Fund, and contributions would be taken from income and put in those funds.  When you hit 65 can take certain percentage out.

Can't use it until you hit 65.  When you die, 50% of what is left goes to heirs and 50% to US.  The 50% that goes to US would be to help fund disability, supplemental funds for those who need it.

Centrist proposal?

To me, in a world in which social security were always solvent it would be right wing. When it's not, it just becomes a lot more practical and indeed almost moderate approach to solving the problem.  (Especially when you are going to need big funds to go into figuring out what to do with all the folks who will put little to nothing into this new system.)

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

it's exactly why Democrats continue to shoot themselves in the foot over and over again.

How do you figure?   (I don't agree with Hugo that centrism has no ideology of its own.)

[henrygandorf 29194]

there will always be people who call themselves centrists not just because of what they believe, but because they think centrists are more electable.

this is based on history and experience.  yes, i know there are always exceptions.

i think the prevailing thought is that it's better to vote for a centrist (if your beliefs are aligned) than to vote for a radical (in either direction) and hope that the system in place reins them in towards some sort of centrist compromise.

like it or not, change scares some citizens.  centrists give them some false sense of security.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

14 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

How do you figure?   (I don't agree with Hugo that centrism has no ideology of its own.)

I used to argue centrists had an ideology based around some basic values but after more thought and consideration, they don’t because their centrism is defined by their neutral proximity to the real ideologies.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

32 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Again, this is fucking ridiculous.  It's entirely possible to have a conviction that lands in between two extremes. 

Like what? And how do you define the extremes?  

No one is advocating for all firearm confiscation, that would be extreme.  

No one is advocating for making fully automatic weapons as obtainable as hunting rifles, that would be extreme. 

The extremes are only being defined by one side and it’s the one with all the power, money, and microphones.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Mojo Hand 4580]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I used to argue centrists had an ideology based around some basic values but after more thought and consideration, they don’t because their centrism is defined by their neutral proximity to the real ideologies.

There's a distinction between political ideology and the reasons why someone adopts a political ideology.   It may be that many centrists are as you describe, just as there are many "conservatives" who adopt that ideology simply because it preserves their personal privilege in some way (wealth, race, class, etc.). But that doesn't mean there aren't people who actually do believe in centrism or conservativism (though the latter has proven to be very few in number). 

[tantric superman 4667]

The idea of centrist basing their politics and policies on more fear than left wingers (who fear the policies of the right) and right wingers (who fear the policies of the left) seems utterly inane. 

As a lawyer, I tend to be moderate in my approach to constitutional law, because I think the Constitution is an attempt to moderate the divisive factions both as to the structure of the government and the branches of government.  If there is a fear, it's a fear that one type of power may dominate another, and thus render the system as ineffective. 

When the system is effective, the rights of individuals are considered as is the power of the executive, etc. 

The idea is that if the system is effective, you will get effective legislation.  It's assumed that that legislation, whether it be conservative or radical, is reached by moderation in terms of consideration of ideas, not that only milktoasty ideas will ever pass but that in discussing those ideas, one is moderate and fair in their approach to understanding the pluses and minuses of the legislation.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I view the constitution as document to protect the people from the powerful. 

[NowThis 931]

21 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I used to argue centrists had an ideology based around some basic values but after more thought and consideration, they don’t because their centrism is defined by their neutral proximity to the real ideologies.

centrism means balancing reality with available resources and needs. 

[tantric superman 4667]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I view the constitution as document to protect the people from the powerful. 

That's neither a centrist, or broad, or most importantly, a critically correct reading of the document.   The dude below has a gift for you.

 

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

[NowThis 931]

1 minute ago, tantric superman said:

That's neither a centrist, or broad, or most importantly, a critically correct reading of the document.   The dude below has a gift for you.

 

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

ensure 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

39 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

there will always be people who call themselves centrists not just because of what they believe, but because they think centrists are more electable.

this is based on history and experience.  yes, i know there are always exceptions.

i think the prevailing thought is that it's better to vote for a centrist (if your beliefs are aligned) than to vote for a radical (in either direction) and hope that the system in place reins them in towards some sort of centrist compromise.

like it or not, change scares some citizens.  centrists give them some false sense of security.

I think this is a good assessment.  People also self identify as centrist because they don’t like the manufactured negative stigma associated with either side.   It’s not that they don’t have an ideology, they just aren’t comfortable with associating a defined name to their ideology. 

I, on the other hand, am a proud libtard. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

39 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I used to argue centrists had an ideology based around some basic values but after more thought and consideration, they don’t because their centrism is defined by their neutral proximity to the real ideologies.

Yeah cause everything is black and white, no nuance or degrees.    

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah cause everything is black and white, no nuance or degrees.    

Sometimes it is black and white.  Like today.  You either oppose the racism of the GOP, or you don’t.  It’s that simple.

I think what most people have yet to grasp with Trump is this country is now in the process of going through a major ideological realignment and it’s uncomfortable.