Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[bad_teammate 13191]

8 minutes ago, this said:

And that surplus value goes to the risk takers, the owners, the investors. Not the 9 to 5 clock punchers who want to run home to their bud light as soon as it hits 5. 

This reads like a parody.

[RandomIdoit 655]

35 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

With basic income, we could and should ditch most tax credits and maybe even the standard deduction. 

Sounds good. How much am I getting? 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

4 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

The "rich people are responsible for a disproportionate amount of tax revenue therefore their taxes must be too high!" argument is going to give me an aneurysm some day.

You can raise taxes on the rich.   The rich already pay a lot.  To pay for Medicare for all and free college and all the other shit this bartender wants the federal government to pay on — that will only be done by raising taxes on the poor and middle class to fed income tax effective rates close to what the rich pay. 

The Nordic models dems love tax the fuck out of everyone.  Not just the rich.  Their tax structure is flatter than ours.  

[RandomIdoit 655]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

You can raise taxes on the rich.   The rich already pay a lot.  To pay for Medicare for all and free college and all the other shit this bartender wants the federal government to pay on — that will only be done by raising taxes on the poor and middle class to fed income tax effective rates close to what the rich pay. 

The Nordic models dems love tax the fuck out of everyone.  Not just the rich.  Their tax structure is flatter than ours.  

Why don't we start small like getting rid of loopholes and tax shelters?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

18 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

Why don't we start small like getting rid of loopholes and tax shelters?

Which ones?  And how many dollars will each raise?

[RandomIdoit 655]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Which ones?  And how many dollars will each raise?

The ones that allowed companies like Apple to hold 90% of their profits overseas, shifting profits to subsidiaries. I don't know how much it would generate but we should make sure everyone is paying their share, especially businesses who have been avoiding taxes for years.

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, RandomIdoit said:

Sounds good. How much am I getting? 

Numbers are on this thread. Go back and look. 

[RandomIdoit 655]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Numbers are on this thread. Go back and look. 

It was meant to be rhetorical. I would be glad to get a UBI. 

[this 107]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

This reads like a parody.

Too close to home?

Edited July 31, 2018 by this

[this 107]

1 hour ago, RandomIdoit said:

The ones that allowed companies like Apple to hold 90% of their profits overseas, shifting profits to subsidiaries. I don't know how much it would generate but we should make sure everyone is paying their share, especially businesses who have been avoiding taxes for years.

 

Oh boy, you are now just regurgitating what you heard at Bernie rallies. Apple paid nearly $15.6 billion in 2017, $15.9 billion in 2016 and  $19 billion in 2015 in the form of corporate income tax with effective tax rates of 24.6%, 25.6% and 26.4%. 

Source: http://investor.apple.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=320193-17-70&CIK=320193#A10-K20179302017_HTM_S63EA20E94A5151458E162BF17BAE3A6F

What they didn't pay is the income tax on income they earned OUTSIDE the US. They don't have to unless they choose to bring their money to the US. You can keep your earned income outside the US overseas and you can also avoid paying income taxes on them. Heck, you can even bring the first hundred thousand back and take a deduction for the amount of taxes you paid overseas. 

After paying that corporate income tax, Apple then distributes it amongst the shareholders who pay taxes on those dividends AGAIN. Apple and their shareholders are more than paying their fair share, the bottom 50% of this country however isn't. 

Not saying, we should tax the bottom 50% but they should STFU because they pay next to nothing and are subsidized by the ones who do. 

[RandomIdoit 655]

3 minutes ago, this said:

You can keep your earned income outside the US overseas and you can also avoid paying income taxes on them. Heck, you can even bring the first hundred thousand back and take a deduction for the amount of taxes you paid overseas. 

Really? Why does the IRS say this:

Quote

If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate, and gift tax returns and paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are in the United States or abroad. Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside.

 

[this 107]

4 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

Really? Why does the IRS say this:

 

Because your source is wikipedia or vox.com or some such. Here's what IRS says:

If you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien of the United States and you live abroad, you are taxed on your worldwide income. However, you may qualify to exclude from income up to an amount of your foreign earnings that is adjusted annually for inflation ($92,900 for 2011, $95,100 for 2012, $97,600 for 2013, $99,200 for 2014 and $100,800 for 2015). In addition, you can exclude or deduct certain foreign housing amounts.

You may also be entitled to exclude from income the value of meals and lodging provided to you by your employer. Refer to Exclusion of Meals and Lodging in Publication 54, Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad, and Publication 15-B, Employer's Tax Guide to Fringe Benefits for more information.

Source: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion

 

More importantly, you take your ridiculous uninformed statement on Apple back? 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

 
What is preventing them from getting private insurance?

It is prohibitively expensive now that both are retired and over a certain age.

[David Dennison 18849]

The Nordic models dems love tax the fuck out of everyone.  Not just the rich.  Their tax structure is flatter than ours.  

Fine by me.

[David Dennison 18849]

2 hours ago, this said:

And that surplus value goes to the risk takers, the owners, the investors. Not the 9 to 5 clock punchers who want to run home to their bud light as soon as it hits 5. 

Or to the idle rich who inherit generational wealth. That also happens. A lot.

Edited July 31, 2018 by David Dennison

[this 107]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Or to the idle rich who inherit generational wealth. That also happens. A lot.

And? 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

23 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

 

It is prohibitively expensive now that both are retired and over a certain age.

 

So your indictment of Medicare is that your parents like private insurance better, but cant get it because they're high risk?  Lol. 

[RandomIdoit 655]

15 minutes ago, this said:

Because your source is wikipedia or vox.com or some such. Here's what IRS says:

If you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien of the United States and you live abroad, you are taxed on your worldwide income. However, you may qualify to exclude from income up to an amount of your foreign earnings that is adjusted annually for inflation ($92,900 for 2011, $95,100 for 2012, $97,600 for 2013, $99,200 for 2014 and $100,800 for 2015). In addition, you can exclude or deduct certain foreign housing amounts.

You may also be entitled to exclude from income the value of meals and lodging provided to you by your employer. Refer to Exclusion of Meals and Lodging in Publication 54, Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad, and Publication 15-B, Employer's Tax Guide to Fringe Benefits for more information.

Source: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion

 

More importantly, you take your ridiculous uninformed statement on Apple back? 

It's the first paragraph here verbatim: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/taxpayers-living-abroad

And you are right, you can get the exemption but only if you meet the criteria. If you spent one day in the United States you may not qualify for the bona fide residence status. Or if your company sends you overseas to do consulting for part of the year you will still be taxed on that income. So some people will be exempted while some will not be.

As far as Apple goes, it was an example of how companies are using tax shelters. From Forbes:

Quote

Apple has an Irish holding company with no operations or employees at the top of its foreign operations. This company also serves as a group finance company. Apple Inc., the U.S. parent of the whole group, pays U.S. tax on the investment earnings of this company. Otherwise, the holding company pays no tax to any government, and has not paid tax for five years. It claims tax residence nowhere.

I also read that they are now repatriating money because the tax rate was lowered to 15.5% which is good. 

 

 

 

[this 107]

12 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

It's the first paragraph here verbatim: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/taxpayers-living-abroad

And you are right, you can get the exemption but only if you meet the criteria. If you spent one day in the United States you may not qualify for the bona fide residence status. Or if your company sends you overseas to do consulting for part of the year you will still be taxed on that income. So some people will be exempted while some will not be.

As far as Apple goes, it was an example of how companies are using tax shelters. From Forbes:

I also read that they are now repatriating money because the tax rate was lowered to 15.5% which is good. 

 

 

 

Think we are on the same page on individual taxes, I didn't word it correctly, my apologies. 

Apple was using a tax shelter to avoid paying taxes in Europe. Not in the US. 

Its just an inaccurate argument that Apple(and other corporations) do not pay any or fair share of their taxes. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by this

[Buzzrock 14902]

Socialism is a fun thought experiment for the kids, but I don’t think it has legs at a national level with any party.

Plus there aren’t a lot of success stories. Kinda like trade wars.

Capitalism has issues, but it’s the best system so far.

[RandomIdoit 655]

3 minutes ago, this said:

Think we are on the same page on individual taxes, I didn't word it correctly, my apologies. 

Apple was using a tax shelter to avoid paying taxes in Europe. Not in the US.

If you read what I quoted, it makes it seem like they should have paid taxes either in the US or in Ireland, but they did not pay in either country. 

[this 107]

5 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

If you read what I quoted, it makes it seem like they should have paid taxes either in the US or in Ireland, but they did not pay in either country. 

That's factually incorrect. I did post their 10-Ks, they paid plenty in taxes. Please quote the entire article with source link so I could talk about it intelligently. 

[XR4ticlone 122]

10 hours ago, Grandioso said:

 

I was crafting a response to this and then realized you actually used the term “deadbeat” and it made me laugh because of its use in “the big Lebowski,” a movie I’m sure you hate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[XR4ticlone 122]

12 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Socialism is a fun thought experiment for the kids, but I don’t think it has legs at a national level with any party.

Plus there aren’t a lot of success stories. Kinda like trade wars.

Capitalism has issues, but it’s the best system so far.

 Socialism is a hobby...because Socialism doesn't work.  

[RandomIdoit 655]

10 minutes ago, this said:

That's factually incorrect. I did post their 10-Ks, they paid plenty in taxes. Please quote the entire article with source link so I could talk about it intelligently. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/leesheppard/2013/05/28/how-does-apple-avoid-taxes/#e45963e20a78

I do realize it's an old article.

[this 107]

8 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/leesheppard/2013/05/28/how-does-apple-avoid-taxes/#e45963e20a78

I do realize it's an old article.

This is what the article says:

Apple set up some Irish subsidiaries a mere four years after it was founded. Foreign sales, which account for 60% of Apple’s profits, are routed through these Irish subsidiaries and taxed nowhere. How is this possible, when the intellectual property that supports the value of Apple’s products is in the United States?

 

 

Like I indicated earlier, they only refrain from paying income taxes on income/EBITDA generated in foreign countries and that too when kept in foreign countries. 

[SaucyJack 3488]

15 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

 Socialism is a hobby...because Socialism doesn't work.  

Might want to share that with the Prez.  He's got $28B social democracy dollars earmarked for farmers, coal, and nuclear interests.

[David Dennison 18849]

1 hour ago, XR4ticlone said:

 Socialism is a hobby...because Socialism doesn't work.  

Sure it does. There are plenty of examples, some of them in the United States.

Edited July 31, 2018 by David Dennison

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

9 hours ago, RandomIdoit said:

Really? Why does the IRS say this:

 

Corporate taxes are different then personal income taxes I believe

[American Swindle 102]

9 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Or to the idle rich who inherit generational wealth. That also happens. A lot.

To folks in Bangladesh, our bottom 2 percent is rich to them, should our bottom 2 percent give their things to those in Bangladesh in the name of global economic equality?  

Lets have some perspective just a little...we live on a planet with 7 billion people on a rock amongst what seems like an infinite number of other planets, some people are just going to have it better than others.  

[GSU&UT 1798]

Jesus christ, this thread is a light for all the right-wing moths. How many times do the Nordic countries and Germany need to be pointed out to you all? Don't give me the BS that they're a small homogenized population Fox News dog-whistle argument either, they have implemented a number of progressive policies that has prevented extreme wealth disparity (which is the source for so many of these problems we keep discussing).

Edited July 31, 2018 by GSU&UT

[David Dennison 18849]

10 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Jesus christ, this thread is a light for all the right-wing moths. How many times do the Nordic countries and Germany need to be pointed out to you all? Don't give me this small homogenized Fox News dog-whistle argument either, they have implemented a number of progressive policies that has prevented extreme wealth disparity (which is the source for so many of these problems we keep discussing).

The right wing in this country is apparently unaware that mixed-economies work extremely well.

[Js1 85275]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The right wing in this country is apparently unaware that mixed-economies work extremely well.

Anything "mixed" tends to rustle their jimmies.

[this 107]

18 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Jesus christ, this thread is a light for all the right-wing moths. How many times do the Nordic countries and Germany need to be pointed out to you all? Don't give me the BS that they're a small homogenized population Fox News dog-whistle argument either, they have implemented a number of progressive policies that has prevented extreme wealth disparity (which is the source for so many of these problems we keep discussing).

Jesus Christ, this thread is a light for all the commie-wing moths. How many times does it have to be pointed out to you all that we don't want the Nordic and German model? Point me in the direction that wealth disparity is the source of many of the problems we face? Other than your envy I mean. 

[Grandioso 2592]

The right wing in this country is apparently unaware that mixed-economies work extremely well.

The right wing is fucking acutely aware of it. They game the system better than anyone. Tax loopholes, offshore tax havens, trusts, capital gains taxes, corporate tax cuts, subsidies, government contracts, repealing the estate tax, corporate welfare, boondoggles, and so on. No problem whatsoever.

Their problem is with the poors trying to get in on the action.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GSU&UT 1798]

13 minutes ago, this said:

Jesus Christ, this thread is a light for all the commie-wing moths. How many times does it have to be pointed out to you all that we don't want the Nordic and German model? Point me in the direction that wealth disparity is the source of many of the problems we face? Other than your envy I mean. 

Whose dumbass sock is this? Feel free to eat the corn out of my shit.

[zork 629]

13 hours ago, this said:

This is what the article says:

Apple set up some Irish subsidiaries a mere four years after it was founded. Foreign sales, which account for 60% of Apple’s profits, are routed through these Irish subsidiaries and taxed nowhere. How is this possible, when the intellectual property that supports the value of Apple’s products is in the United States?

 

 

Like I indicated earlier, they only refrain from paying income taxes on income/EBITDA generated in foreign countries and that too when kept in foreign countries. 

cool story bro:  worked for a company that was bought out and within the first 5 months afterwards "the ownership" of ~50% of our equipment, data-center equipment, was transferred to a subsidiary based in Ireland.  Nothing else changed except for the ownership as far as I know.(and of course the tax treatment)  The Ireland deal is pretty common, not saying it is right and it is clearly a tax dodge.

[this 107]

4 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Whose dumbass sock is this? Feel free to eat the corn out of my shit.

LOL, nice duck. Go fuck yourself with your commie brethren and its the other way around you plebian, you eat the corn out of my shit. 

[this 107]

9 minutes ago, zork said:

cool story bro:  worked for a company that was bought out and within the first 5 months afterwards "the ownership" of ~50% of our equipment, data-center equipment, was transferred to a subsidiary based in Ireland.  Nothing else changed except for the ownership as far as I know.(and of course the tax treatment)  The Ireland deal is pretty common, not saying it is right and it is clearly a tax dodge.

You're the one with the coolstorybro, I was responding to another poster's claim that Apple doesn't pay any taxes. Even with 50% of "Ireland ownership" the company bought out will pay US taxes on US profits. No way to dodge them. 

You have no understanding of our tax structure you 9 to 5er, and you're mad that your wage is stagnated. You learn nothing new, you get paid for nothing new. 

Just so that you dumbasses are clear, in 2015(the latest tax foundation data that I can find) Apple paid nearly HALF as much in income taxes as the bottom 50% of this country. So the bottom half needs to STFU about fair share or pony up cash.

Edited July 31, 2018 by this

[Buzzrock 14902]

Jesus christ, this thread is a light for all the right-wing moths. How many times do the Nordic countries and Germany need to be pointed out to you all? Don't give me the BS that they're a small homogenized population Fox News dog-whistle argument either, they have implemented a number of progressive policies that has prevented extreme wealth disparity (which is the source for so many of these problems we keep discussing).

I think there are multiple definitions of socialism in the current discourse.

I found this interesting.

https://fee.org/articles/is-germany-successful-thanks-to-socialism/

[Grandioso 2592]

Nonpartisan metaphor check.

The correct nomenclature for a figure that gets people emotional and attracts harsh criticism is "lightning rod." The moths/flame thing is a little clumsy.

Carry on.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Grandioso
Still love you, GSU&UT

[GSU&UT 1798]

5 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

Nonpartisan metaphor check.

The correct nomenclature for a figure that gets people emotional and attracts harsh criticism is "lightning rod." The moths/flame thing is a little clumsy.

Carry on.

I should have correctly used "like moths to a flame" in a metaphor, but I couldn't make it work and I don't word so good.

[American Swindle 102]

1 hour ago, GSU&UT said:

Jesus christ, this thread is a light for all the right-wing moths. How many times do the Nordic countries and Germany need to be pointed out to you all? Don't give me the BS that they're a small homogenized population Fox News dog-whistle argument either, they have implemented a number of progressive policies that has prevented extreme wealth disparity (which is the source for so many of these problems we keep discussing).

Sweden's wealth was due to free market capitalism before they implemented their welfare state/progressive policies bro. 

http://bernieiswrong.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNyipnsyBj8

 

[American Swindle 102]

26 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Sweden's wealth was due to free market capitalism before they implemented their welfare state/progressive policies bro. 

http://bernieiswrong.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNyipnsyBj8

 

WOODS: You have an article alleging that Sweden actually succeeded economically not because of welfare state spending and government intervention, but both in spite of those things and prior to those things. So can we go back and look at the history of Sweden? When do we begin to see robust economic growth, and what was the role of the state at that time?

NORBERG: When you start to think of when Sweden was really a successful economy that the rest of the world looked at, you begin to notice Sweden in the 1950s, ’60s. In 1970, Sweden is one of the richest countries on the planet. I think the per-capita income is the fourth most prosperous on the planet, and that’s after a 100-year period of rapid economic growth – one of the fastest in the world. Probably only Japan beat us during those years. So you would have to say that this starts sometime in the 1870s, which is interesting, because at that time Sweden had gone through a liberalization and deregulation process. Between 1840 and 1870, we had a major political movement of classical liberalism, of a laissez-faire liberal attitude where they wanted to reduce government to open up to free trade, deregulating industry and so on.

And it’s sort of a funny anecdote: the minister of finance, who was one of the pioneers of these reforms, left in the mid-1860s after having really liberalized and opened Sweden up, and his opponents said, oh, now you’re leaving because you don’t want to see the failures that you brought upon us and the problems that Sweden will experience after these reforms. But what happened was that growth really took hold. If you want to look at one particular set of numbers, between 1860 and 1910, right before the First World War, real wages in Sweden increased by 25 percent per decade in manufacturing. That’s much faster than before and much faster than afterwards – which is interesting, because that’s 20 years before the Social Democrats ever got power in Sweden. So the real boom happened during this laissez-faire period

Edited July 31, 2018 by American Swindle
meh

[udaydanceparty 33]

19 hours ago, RandomIdoit said:

Why don't we start small like getting rid of loopholes and tax shelters?

 

16 hours ago, this said:

This is what the article says:

Apple set up some Irish subsidiaries a mere four years after it was founded. Foreign sales, which account for 60% of Apple’s profits, are routed through these Irish subsidiaries and taxed nowhere. How is this possible, when the intellectual property that supports the value of Apple’s products is in the United States?

 

 

Like I indicated earlier, they only refrain from paying income taxes on income/EBITDA generated in foreign countries and that too when kept in foreign countries. 

The US is one of the few countries out there that actually try to claim taxes on earnings made overseas.  For example, an Italian, German or Canadian working in France would only pay taxes in France while a US citizen working in France would be taxed by France and the US.  You can write off quite a bit though.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

Jesus christ, this thread is a light for all the right-wing moths. How many times do the Nordic countries and Germany need to be pointed out to you all? Don't give me the BS that they're a small homogenized population Fox News dog-whistle argument either, they have implemented a number of progressive policies that has prevented extreme wealth disparity (which is the source for so many of these problems we keep discussing).

Waaaaahhhh.

[RandomIdoit 655]

4 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

 they have implemented a number of progressive policies that has prevented extreme wealth disparity (which is the source for so many of these problems we keep discussing).

What is an acceptable wealth disparity in your opinion? 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

26 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

What is an acceptable wealth disparity in your opinion? 

Zero, everyone should work in glorious new tractor factory, toiling for the cause,  well except those who have to control the wealth disparity, they live in  upper west side, and Arlington, Va. gov't supplied dachas............. errrr.  ..............Co ops.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Onboard 2.0

[Huckleberry 32848]

30 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

What is an acceptable wealth disparity in your opinion? 

I vote for 1960 when the United States was at its peak in terms of percentage of global GDP.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Huckleberry

[Zonahorn 8079]

5 hours ago, this said:

LOL, nice duck. Go fuck yourself with your commie brethren and its the other way around you plebian, you eat the corn out of my shit. 

Oh Hai CLH