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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Asithappens

Asithappens 974

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I like her, too, but she's kind of a bonehead who takes herself too seriously and who has neither (imo) the intellect nor the fortitude to do great things. 

She will (again, imo) take 1 step forward and probably 1.5 steps back most of the time. 

She is not what the Democratic Party needs.

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henrygandorf
henrygandorf

oh, and to add, let's offer up a 'comparable' analogy reversal and see how it fits.  who's the aoc of the right?  jim jordan?  matt gaetz? this is basically like if there was a huge earthquake he

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

some people see 99% and consider that absolutism.  i am one of those people. this is not your wife grabbing your cell phone that you left in the other room.  this is not a quick favor.  this is a

RomaVicta
RomaVicta

Yes, of course. She is the only woman or woman of color the left right (edit) focuses their ire on. There are no other examples. Great point. It's really all intellectual and rational. And usually ver

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13224

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

I like her, too, but she's kind of a bonehead who takes herself too seriously and who has neither (imo) the intellect nor the fortitude to do great things. 

She will (again, imo) take 1 step forward and probably 1.5 steps back most of the time. 

She is not what the Democratic Party needs.

3 for 3 on classic misogynist attacks against strident women

- not fun
- not smart
- weak

You absolutely nailed it.

The reality is this: She's shown good humor, she obviously thinks deeply and big-picture about things, and she is weathering massive media attacks with grace and positivity at a very young age.

Calm down and smile, babe, jeez!

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26438

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Posted
Just now, NBMisha said:

Yes, that clip, and the general coherency of it, are just like a flip side of Trump.  Sure.  More like the opposite.  I don't get the obsession, except, as previously explained, as an artifact of fear.

She's an optimist in a town of pessimists. She has two choices, join them or keep being optimistic.

We'll see how it plays out. 

I like her attitude, but I fear that the Machine will grind her down.

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Drew

Drew 2517

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Posted
53 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

3 for 3 on classic misogynist attacks against strident women

- not fun
- not smart
- weak

You absolutely nailed it.

The reality is this: She's shown good humor, she obviously thinks deeply and big-picture about things, and she is weathering massive media attacks with grace and positivity at a very young age.

Calm down and smile, babe, jeez!

I agree with everything you said except the bolded part.  I do think she's a bit of a dreamer, and she has handled this much better than Trump would have.  But I still think she comes off as not fully understanding the weight of what she's saying.  Not understanding exactly what she's trying to fix or even how to fix it.

Yes she wants to learn, and that's great.  She also needs to probably look deeper or do a bit more research before jumping into something with both feet(like the DOJ budget stuff where a little "deeper" look would have stopped her from getting attacked)

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13224

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Posted
1 minute ago, Drew said:

I agree with everything you said except the bolded part.  I do think she's a bit of a dreamer, and she has handled this much better than Trump would have.  But I still think she comes off as not fully understanding the weight of what she's saying.  Not understanding exactly what she's trying to fix or even how to fix it.

I disagree completely, but would be interested to see that elucidated with some specifics. It's just such a vague critique.

Quote

She also needs to probably look deeper or do a bit more research before jumping into something with both feet(like the DOJ budget stuff where a little "deeper" look would have stopped her from getting attacked)

There is nothing that will stop her from getting attacked. We shouldn't use the derangement of the right as a basis for critiquing the left. We have to critique the left on its own terms and in the light of facts and reason. You can literally say, "Do more research" to anyone at any time about anything.

It's just extremely difficult for me to sit here in 2018, read her words, and think there's a big problem with her grasp of the big picture. Yeah, she isn't batting 1.000, but she's already hitting way better than Congresspeople twice her age.

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Drew

Drew 2517

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Man I know you love her, and the way others in here are going after her is ridiculous, but there are plenty of examples that even you have seen, even if you choose to ignore it.

 

I think she'll be fine, and there's nothing wrong with trying to change things for the working class.  But my critique still stands.  I don't think she either fully researches before speaking out, or has a full grasp of what she's talking about at times( and to be clear, it's not just her, that's a problem with many politicians).  That's not saying anything that disparaging or hurtful about her.  It's just stating that she has room for growth, and that's obvious.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Drew said:

Man I know you love her, and the way others in here are going after her is ridiculous, but there are plenty of examples that even you have seen, even if you choose to ignore it.

 

I think she'll be fine, and there's nothing wrong with trying to change things for the working class.  But my critique still stands.  I don't think she either fully researches before speaking out, or has a full grasp of what she's talking about at times.  That's not saying anything that disparaging or hurtful to her.  It's just stating that she has room for growth, and that's obvious.

JFC. You are judging her on tweets and shit. The only person who tries to pass laws by tweet is Trump. Let her actually put her 2 cents into some written bills and policies before you snap to judgments. 

Do you think Obama actually included 57 states in his draft EOs, or do you think he just slipped up in a statement?  

And bigger than that, she is fucking right. The military is a wasteful financial black hole, and worse, none of that waste is actually supporting our underpaid and underinsured troops. While you bitch about her off the cuff remarks, you are really just avoiding her underlying point. Healthcare for all is not only needed and possible, its also coming. You can be part of the solution or part of the problem. 

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Drew

Drew 2517

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JFC talk about snapping to judgements.

 

This is why I gotta remember to stay out of this fucking cesspool.  I like her, I like some of her ideas, but because I don't have the same opinion of her as you I'm doing something wrong?

 

Get over yourself.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Drew said:

JFC talk about snapping to judgements.

 

This is why I gotta remember to stay out of this fucking cesspool.  I like her, I like some of her ideas, but because I don't have the same opinion of her as you I'm doing something wrong?

 

Get over yourself.

What opinion?  She made an incorrect math calculation. So what?  You are saying she needs to do research to send tweets.  Which actual opinion of hers do you disagree with?  Healthcare for all?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13224

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Drew said:

Man I know you love her, and the way others in here are going after her is ridiculous, but there are plenty of examples that even you have seen, even if you choose to ignore it.

I asked for you to be more specific and this is your response?

lol ok bud

"What specifically is your critique?"

- "WHY DON'T YOU MARRY HER ALREADY YOU LOVE HER SO MUCH!"

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Asithappens

Asithappens 974

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44 minutes ago, Drew said:

I agree with everything you said except the bolded part.  I do think she's a bit of a dreamer, and she has handled this much better than Trump would have.  But I still think she comes off as not fully understanding the weight of what she's saying.  Not understanding exactly what she's trying to fix or even how to fix it.

Yes she wants to learn, and that's great.  She also needs to probably look deeper or do a bit more research before jumping into something with both feet(like the DOJ budget stuff where a little "deeper" look would have stopped her from getting attacked)

AOC is very earnest, I'll give her that.

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American Swindle

American Swindle 102

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http://reason.com/blog/2018/12/06/ocasio-cortez-pay-medicare-for-all-error

 

Quote

The biggest takeaway from Ocasio-Cortez's tweet, then, isn't that a single legislator made an error, or even that single-payer proponents continue to have a considerable budget-math problem, although they do. It's that Medicare for All backers still face the fundamental challenge of defining and building support for a plan that doesn't yet exist. Until and unless that happens, Medicare for All will remain little more than a slogan advertising a fantasy of costless, frictionless government intervention.

 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29377

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51 minutes ago, Drew said:

Man I know you love her, and the way others in here are going after her is ridiculous, but there are plenty of examples that even you have seen, even if you choose to ignore it.

 

I think she'll be fine, and there's nothing wrong with trying to change things for the working class.  But my critique still stands.  I don't think she either fully researches before speaking out, or has a full grasp of what she's talking about at times( and to be clear, it's not just her, that's a problem with many politicians).  That's not saying anything that disparaging or hurtful about her.  It's just stating that she has room for growth, and that's obvious.

Wait til this guy learns who the president is!

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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Just now, wildcat09 said:

Wait til this guy learns who the president is!

Doesn't matter.  President is a rich white dude.  He can make all the mistakes he wants on twitter, and Drew won't care a bit about his lack of research before tweeting.  Or the fact that he suffers from a lack of research on official White House statements and Executive Orders as well.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13224

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While I agree with the statement that Democrats can't sell M4A until they come up with a cohesive idea of what M4A actually means to them, this kind of logic is idiotic...

Quote

Even if you think the economy could withstand such a large and rapid shift of resources from the private to the public sector, an assumption I don't share, the politics make such a transition effectively impossible. Sanders' left-leaning home state of Vermont couldn't stomach the tax hikes required to implement a state-based single-payer system. It's even harder to imagine a majority of the rest of the country supporting a plan like this. The dual questions of how to pay for it and how to build political support for whatever pay-for is settled on represent a substantial practical challenge to any single-payer campaign.

Doing this as a state alone is far less efficient and far more complicated than doing it as an entire nation at once. A state taking on that kind of burden might put itself at a disadvantage to other states and invite unwanted "immigration" (for lack of a better term). Everyone jumping in together and working in together is far more attractive than a piecemeal approach.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

While I agree with the statement that Democrats can't sell M4A until they come up with a cohesive idea of what M4A actually means to them, this kind of logic is idiotic...

Doing this as a state alone is far less efficient and far more complicated than doing it as an entire nation at once. A state taking on that kind of burden might put itself at a disadvantage to other states and invite unwanted "immigration" (for lack of a better term). Everyone jumping in together and working in together is far more attractive than a piecemeal approach.

Not to mention that, without a SALT deduction, Vermonters still have to buy $1,000 staplers for federal offices and 100s of million dollars worth of shit for the military to "lose" in Iraq.  By themselves, they can't get healthcare instead of these things. 

Plus, its difficult for them to keep Cletus from Arkansas out who spent his whole life hating on universal care, who after losing his job and insurance, and subsequently getting diagnosed with colon cancer, sees that he can get a minimum wage job as a Vermont resident and get affordable health coverage from their system.  Cletuses are going to drive their cost per person way up when they don't enter the system until after they are sick.

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14937

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Posted
She's an optimist in a town of pessimists. She has two choices, join them or keep being optimistic.
We'll see how it plays out. 
I like her attitude, but I fear that the Machine will grind her down.


I think there’s a good chance she leverages her time in Congress into a very lucrative career in the private sector. She doesn’t strike me as a career politician and she may piss off some of the old guard.
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Asithappens

Asithappens 974

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yes because data misinterpretation is the same as Palin spewing racist and homophobic diarrhea. Both sides!

Who, besides you, said it was the same?

There are other aspects to this than racism/homophobia, if you care to look at it. And it seems that you don't.

 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

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Posted
1 minute ago, Asithappens said:

I think it's kinda hard. Maybe even more than kinda hard.

Not really. The problems are easily identified. Entrenched financial interests with strong lobby power, misaligned incentive structure and reimbursement systems, disengaged patients, providers forced to tailor their practice of medicine to external influences having nothing to do with outcomes, waste fraud and abuse, inefficient regulatory bodies that don't include health economics in their approval processes, etc. I've said it before and will state again. I could identify 4 or 5 surly posters and we could pull up to a picnic table and back of the napkin a functional, cost-effective, and outcomes-oriented healthcare system over a few pitchers. And maybe some brisket. What we couldn't do however is overcome the political obstacles to implementing such a system. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Not really. The problems are easily identified. Entrenched financial interests with strong lobby power, misaligned incentive structure and reimbursement systems, disengaged patients, providers forced to tailor their practice of medicine to external influences having nothing to do with outcomes, waste fraud and abuse, inefficient regulatory bodies that don't include health economics in their approval processes, etc. I've said it before and will state again. I could identify 4 or 5 surly posters and we could pull up to a picnic table and back of the napkin a functional, cost-effective, and outcomes-oriented healthcare system over a few pitchers. And maybe some brisket. What we couldn't do however is overcome the political obstacles to implementing such a system. 

You have to have enough political will to fix healthcare.  That's the real issue. 

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Kyle

Kyle 207

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Posted
On 12/4/2018 at 10:58 AM, RomaVicta said:

Negged for pushing a distortion. She mispoke by using the word branches, but she was talking about what could be taken over through elections. It's obvious. She wasn't asked to name the three branches of government nor was she trying to. 

Work on intellectual honesty. Stop being a lying/obfuscating amateur political operatives. The professionals at least get paid to destroy their integrity.

With all due respect, you described 99% of the posts this board. If have watched a couple of her interviews. Can you objectively state she seems smart? While I disagree with her politically, I respect a lot of people with whom I disagree. She's basically a congressional Sarah Palin. I realize I'm in the minority, but I would rather have smart, ethical, politicians regardless of whether they always agree with my views (which certainly do not line up along party lines).

The interview below is a great example of why she does not exactly scream Mensa.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/09/16/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-40-trillion-dollar-spending-plan-sotu-vpx.cnn

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YChang

YChang 3462

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Kyle said:

With all due respect, you described 99% of the posts this board. If have watched a couple of her interviews. Can you objectively state she seems smart? While I disagree with her politically, I respect a lot of people with whom I disagree. She's basically a congressional Sarah Palin. I realize I'm in the minority, but I would rather have smart, ethical, politicians regardless of whether they always agree with my views (which certainly do not line up along party lines).

The interview below is a great example of why she does not exactly scream Mensa.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/09/16/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-40-trillion-dollar-spending-plan-sotu-vpx.cnn

She done goofed for sure and hopefully for her sake she works on building her policy knowledge but that mistake doesn't means she's objectively not "smart." If you're feeling generous you can probably describe her policy knowledge is pretty typical of others in congress unless they're a self-styled policy wonks like Ryan (chortle). 

Edited by YChang
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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29997

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Posted
1 hour ago, Kyle said:

With all due respect, you described 99% of the posts this board. If have watched a couple of her interviews. Can you objectively state she seems smart? While I disagree with her politically, I respect a lot of people with whom I disagree. She's basically a congressional Sarah Palin. I realize I'm in the minority, but I would rather have smart, ethical, politicians regardless of whether they always agree with my views (which certainly do not line up along party lines).

The interview below is a great example of why she does not exactly scream Mensa.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/09/16/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-40-trillion-dollar-spending-plan-sotu-vpx.cnn

That's not what I claim. You slip into another form of distortion. I suspect you know it.

Do you believe that she cannot name the three branches of government? Do you believe that is what she was trying to do? Do you disagree with me about the context of her remarks?

I was specific in what I negged. Your post was furtherance of an intentional distortion of the facts.

Your entitled to your opinion of someone's intelligence and competence. I'm tired of idly allowing dishonesty to just pass. Your post was dishonest.

This is my jihad. May the swords run with the blood of the dishonest. We will all drink Scotch on Brisket's balcony.

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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Posted

Who cares if our politicians are smart or dumb?  Woodrow Wilson was incredibly brilliant, and he was also a racist anti-semite.  Politicians are good/bad based on the idea/policies they support, not on how smart or experienced they are.  

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