Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Js1 85566]

Does Icono suck Johnny’s dick while Johnny is posting or just when the rat fucking is over? 

[hayden_horn 11365]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Never mind the roads, schools, libraries, post office, military, fire department, law enforcement, museums, parks, airports, and potable water.

Bootstraps.

Socialism will never work here.

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

 

Yeah funny and all , but it's like comparing apples to oranges.  Socialism in the forms you're thinking of are possible because of a strong capitalist driven economy funding those socialist/community shared services.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Texas is an economic powerhouse because of one thing -- oil.  That's it.  Everything else followed on. 

That’s what I said in a later post. GND is an assault on the source of wealth of this state. It should be fiercely resisted by EVERY Texan.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5797]

11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Texas is an economic powerhouse because of one thing -- oil.  That's it.  Everything else followed on. 

Pfffft, fine we will give you that one, but California and New York became economic powerhouses because they are low tax, low regulation and low government services states! 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

14 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Never mind the roads, schools, libraries, post office, military, fire department, law enforcement, museums, parks, airports, and potable water.

Bootstraps.

Socialism will never work here.

Infrastructure does not equal socialism.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah funny and all , but it's like comparing apples to oranges.  Socialism in the forms you're thinking of are possible because of a strong capitalist driven economy funding those socialist/community shared services.

All possible because our population works pretty damn hard.  Why not invest in public healthcare and more education so our population can be even MORE productive?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33898]

I like the people who pronounce themselves arbiters of to whom this pernicious term applies: Trump apologists brainwashed worse than those sent to re-education camps in communist countries. 
The arrival of a corporation and thousands of jobs for locals is one of the great lies of boosterism. Every company that moved to Austin in the 80s was heralded as bringing x number of jobs as though the uneducated poor would now all be lifted out of the East Side. 
Corporations bring people more than jobs. Austinites who lived here prior to the boom would not have chosen what Austin has become. Nobody cares about permanent residents. Rising property values only benefit those planning to sell. Increased congestion and wear and tear on infrastructure can decrease the local quality of life.
I don't know what the area is like where Amazon was planning to land. If the local people don't want Amazon, there are many possible reasons why. I'm delighted that they didn't choose Austin. I'd like to see them go to Detroit or some other depressed area where they would actually improve the area.
A blanket notion that businesses moving to your area is necessarily good is short sighted and ill-considered.

And in my limited experience those companies rarely hire local talent.

[Guest Lobo]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

All possible because our population works pretty damn hard.  Why not invest in public healthcare and more education so our population can be even MORE productive?

Half the Texas budget goes to health care. We're still doing horribly in terms of outcomes, but it's not like we don't throw ~ $70bn++ at it each budget. 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Half the Texas budget goes to health care. We're still doing horribly in terms of outcomes, but it's not like we don't throw ~ $70bn++ at it each budget. 

How much better would the Harris County Hospital District be doing from a cost and outcomes perspective if it wasn’t burdened by uninsured illegals?

[GHOSTUSER 361]

28 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Does Icono suck Johnny’s dick while Johnny is posting or just when the rat fucking is over? 

You find it surprising that 2 successful attorneys that have significant commercial real estate assets would have similar viewpoints when it comes to the nutjobs on the left? What do you think the really rich guys think?

Edited February 16, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[jimmyjazz 46124]

6 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

You find it surprising that 2 successful attorneys that have significant commercial real estate assets would have similar viewpoints when it comes to the nutjobs on the left? What do you think the really rich guys think?

I don't know, ask Bill Gates.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't know, ask Bill Gates.

What government job do you have? 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

For those advocating democratic socialism  this article by two economic professors from elite universities should be illuminating. Facts that show economic growth in Sweden was a full percentage point less than their European peers and 2% less than ours. Debt to GDP went out of control and per capita income rankings went into the toilet. They only turned things around after implementing privatization and market based reforms. Democratic socialism is an abject failure even in the lauded example of Sweden.

How Sweden Overcame Socialism

It’s a model for the U.S., but the lesson isn’t what Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez thinks it is.

By 

Jesús Fernández-Villaverde and 

Lee E. Ohanian

Jan. 9, 2019 7:06 p.m. ET

Nearly half of millennials say they prefer socialism to capitalism, but what do they mean? “My policies most closely resemble what we see in the U.K., in Norway, in Finland, in Sweden,” Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez told “60 Minutes.” Yet Sweden’s experiment with socialist policies was disastrous, and its economic success in recent decades is a result of market-based reforms.

Until the mid-20th century, Sweden pursued highly competitive market-based policies. By 1970 Sweden achieved the world’s fourth-highest per capita income. Then increasingly radical Social Democratic governments raised taxes, spending and regulation much more than any other Western European country. Economic performance sputtered. By the early 1990s, Sweden’s per capita income ranking had dropped to 14th. Economic growth from 1970 to the early 1990s was roughly 1 percentage point lower than in Europe and 2 points lower than in the U.S.

Before its socialist experiment, Sweden had a smaller government sector than the U.S. By the early 1990s, government spending and transfer payments ballooned to 70% of gross domestic product, and debt had increased to 80% of GDP. Between 1966 and 1974, Sweden lost some 400,000 private jobs—proportionate to 16.7 million in today’s U.S. 

In 1991 a market-oriented government came to power and undertook far-reaching reforms. Policy makers have privatized parts of the health-care system, introduced for-profit schools along with school vouchers, and reduced welfare benefits. Since 1997, government ministries that propose new spending plans have been required to find offsetting cuts in their budgets. As a result, public debt has declined from 80% of GDP in the early 1990s to 41%.

To increase incentives to work, Sweden reduced unemployment benefits and introduced an earned-income tax credit in 2007. The electricity and transportation industries were deregulated in the 1990s, and even the Swedish postal system was opened up to competition in 1993. The corporate tax rate was cut from its 2009 level of 28% to 22% today, and is scheduled to decline to 20.4% in 2021. 

This policy mix has earned Sweden a Heritage Foundation ranking as the 15th freest economy in the world. The U.S. is 18th. And it’s paid off. Since 1995, Swedish economic growth has exceeded that of its European Union peers by about 1 point a year. Sweden is now richer than all of the major EU countries and is within 15% of U.S. per capita GDP. While Sweden still has a larger government than the U.S., its tax code is flatter. The progressivity of the U.S. tax code distorts incentives. These distortions would become even larger under the tax-increase proposals of democratic socialists like Ms. Ocasio-Cortez.

There is an example for the U.S. here, but the lesson isn’t what Ms. Ocasio-Cortez thinks. Command-and-control economic policies undermined Sweden’s prosperity, and they would do the same to America’s. 

Mr. Fernández-Villaverde is a professor of economics at the University of Pennsylvania. Mr. Ohanian is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and professor of economics at UCLA.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[elfenix 34332]

right, i'm sure whenever someone says 'we want to be more like sweden,' they totally mean sweden of 1980, not the sweden of 2019. 

 

and debt had increased to 80% of GDP.

we managed to accomplish this AND have 30 million uninsured.  go fuck yourself conservatives.

Edited February 16, 2019 by elfenix

[GHOSTUSER 361]

2 minutes ago, elfenix said:

right, i'm sure whenever someone says 'we want to be more like sweden,' they totally mean sweden of 1980, not the sweden of 2019. 

Ahh the typical moving of goalposts when supporters try to come up with real life examples. “You don’t understand what socialism really is”; “Venezuela is not what we are talking about but more like Sweden”; “No you mongoloid, not Sweden of 1980 when it was in full blown command and control government bloated and distorted economy mode but now when they have fucking even introduced private competition for the post office”

[hobbes2702 13065]

I don’t think you know what moving the goalposts means.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

19 minutes ago, elfenix said:

right, i'm sure whenever someone says 'we want to be more like sweden,' they totally mean sweden of 1980, not the sweden of 2019. 

 

 

 

we managed to accomplish this AND have 30 million uninsured.  go fuck yourself conservatives.

You’re banking on a small country of all whites?   Pretty racist.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

31 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

For those advocating democratic socialism  this article by two economic professors from elite universities should be illuminating. Facts that show economic growth in Sweden was a full percentage point less than their European peers and 2% less than ours. Debt to GDP went out of control and per capita income rankings went into the toilet. They only turned things around after implementing privatization and market based reforms. Democratic socialism is an abject failure even in the lauded example of Sweden.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

How Sweden Overcame Socialism

It’s a model for the U.S., but the lesson isn’t what Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez thinks it is.

By 

Jesús Fernández-Villaverde and 

Lee E. Ohanian

Jan. 9, 2019 7:06 p.m. ET

Nearly half of millennials say they prefer socialism to capitalism, but what do they mean? “My policies most closely resemble what we see in the U.K., in Norway, in Finland, in Sweden,” Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez told “60 Minutes.” Yet Sweden’s experiment with socialist policies was disastrous, and its economic success in recent decades is a result of market-based reforms.

Until the mid-20th century, Sweden pursued highly competitive market-based policies. By 1970 Sweden achieved the world’s fourth-highest per capita income. Then increasingly radical Social Democratic governments raised taxes, spending and regulation much more than any other Western European country. Economic performance sputtered. By the early 1990s, Sweden’s per capita income ranking had dropped to 14th. Economic growth from 1970 to the early 1990s was roughly 1 percentage point lower than in Europe and 2 points lower than in the U.S.

Before its socialist experiment, Sweden had a smaller government sector than the U.S. By the early 1990s, government spending and transfer payments ballooned to 70% of gross domestic product, and debt had increased to 80% of GDP. Between 1966 and 1974, Sweden lost some 400,000 private jobs—proportionate to 16.7 million in today’s U.S. 

In 1991 a market-oriented government came to power and undertook far-reaching reforms. Policy makers have privatized parts of the health-care system, introduced for-profit schools along with school vouchers, and reduced welfare benefits. Since 1997, government ministries that propose new spending plans have been required to find offsetting cuts in their budgets. As a result, public debt has declined from 80% of GDP in the early 1990s to 41%.

To increase incentives to work, Sweden reduced unemployment benefits and introduced an earned-income tax credit in 2007. The electricity and transportation industries were deregulated in the 1990s, and even the Swedish postal system was opened up to competition in 1993. The corporate tax rate was cut from its 2009 level of 28% to 22% today, and is scheduled to decline to 20.4% in 2021. 

This policy mix has earned Sweden a Heritage Foundation ranking as the 15th freest economy in the world. The U.S. is 18th. And it’s paid off. Since 1995, Swedish economic growth has exceeded that of its European Union peers by about 1 point a year. Sweden is now richer than all of the major EU countries and is within 15% of U.S. per capita GDP. While Sweden still has a larger government than the U.S., its tax code is flatter. The progressivity of the U.S. tax code distorts incentives. These distortions would become even larger under the tax-increase proposals of democratic socialists like Ms. Ocasio-Cortez.

There is an example for the U.S. here, but the lesson isn’t what Ms. Ocasio-Cortez thinks. Command-and-control economic policies undermined Sweden’s prosperity, and they would do the same to America’s. 

Mr. Fernández-Villaverde is a professor of economics at the University of Pennsylvania. Mr. Ohanian is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and professor of economics at UCLA.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Don’t tell him about the Nordic country tax structure.  It’s flatter than ours.  So instead of just the rich paying high rates everyone else does too.  

[Nivek 16983]

right, i'm sure whenever someone says 'we want to be more like sweden,' they totally mean sweden of 1980, not the sweden of 2019. 
 

and debt had increased to 80% of GDP.

we managed to accomplish this AND have 30 million uninsured.  go fuck yourself conservatives.

These guys are lawyers with property! Know how rare that is?

[bad_teammate 13224]

I love you, AOC, but you gotta log off sometimes.

(Me? I will NEVER log off.)

[GHOSTUSER 361]

12 minutes ago, Nivek said:

we managed to accomplish this AND have 30 million uninsured.  go fuck yourself conservatives.

These guys are lawyers with property! Know how rare that is?

Why don’t you just admit it. You think we’re meanies for bringing actual facts to this. FUCK YOU REPUBLICANS! You guys are MEAN!!! FACTS AND REAL LIFE EXAMPLES DON’T MATTER! LET’S ADD TO OUR DEBT WITH M4A! The Swedes just didn’t do it right. We will despite our unique history, population and  current state of division that would explode when people will flip out when their taxes will go through the roof while paying for the healthcare of those mooching off the system. What can possibly go wrong? When Americans are told specifics of what M4A would actually be when factoring taxes, loss of their private plans, etc, support for anything resembling M4A is less than 30%

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[Anastasis 23484]

4 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Why don’t you just admit it. You think we’re meanies for bringing actual facts to this. FUCK YOU REPUBLICANS! You guys are MEAN!!! FACTS AND REAL LIFE EXAMPLES DON’T MATTER

 

Stahp. The gop has given up the ground on any discussion where facts play a role. If you want to understand the rise of the current political milieu, look within. 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Anastasis

[Henry Hill 3156]

Just now, Anastasis said:

Stahp. The gop has given up the ground on any discussion who facts okay a role. If you want to understand the rise of the current political milieu, look within. 

Who facts okay a role? Yes.

[Hank Scorpio 17730]

[GHOSTUSER 361]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Stahp. The gop has given up the ground on any discussion where facts play a role. If you want to understand the rise of the current political milieu, look within. 

I’m bringing facts to THIS discussion. That’s what’s important. You think Republicans like me are happy with the spineless GOP members in Congress. The base is far more united than the GOP caucus with thr Murkowskis, Collins and the other RINOs that are finally being weeded out. I have a lot to fault with Trump in terms of him acting like a moron but I will be grateful for him in running the Bush neocon, free trade at all costs worshipers out of the Party.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[Longhorn_Fan68 33898]

I’m bringing facts to THIS discussion. That’s what’s important. You think Republicans like me are happy with the spineless GOP members in Congress. The base is far more united than the GOP caucus with thr Murkowskis, Collins and the other RINOs that are finally being seeded out.

You're doing nothing but trolling. Quit claiming otherwise

[GHOSTUSER 361]

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

2 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I’m bringing facts to THIS discussion. That’s what’s important. You think Republicans like me are happy with the spineless GOP members in Congress. The base is far more united than the GOP caucus with thr Murkowskis, Collins and the other RINOs that are finally being seeded out.

You're doing nothing but trolling. Quit claiming otherwise

Fuck off. I’m copying articles from the WSJ with facts for you fools.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

Why would anyone argue that Europe is a role model? They are in decline and nearing revolution. 

Standards of living have declined across the continent. Populations are decreasing, most severely in Greece, Spain, and Italy. GDP has fallen 20% in Italy, 12% in France, 18% in Spain according to the World Bank. Sweden and all the rest of the outliers are on the same sinking ship. 

The French were told they could have prosperity and a 35 h our work week. It turns out, when you work less, everyone gets poorer. There has to be somebody producing the stuff you consume. Now they are angry they were lied to by politicians. The French people are to blame for believing in stupid shit now their grand tradition of protest means they have to destroy everything and start all over. 

Unfortunately, this all ends badly. But let's be just like them. 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Thetexashammer

[wildcat09 29379]

54 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Why don’t you just admit it. You think we’re meanies for bringing actual facts to this. FUCK YOU REPUBLICANS! You guys are MEAN!!! FACTS AND REAL LIFE EXAMPLES DON’T MATTER! LET’S ADD TO OUR DEBT WITH M4A! The Swedes just didn’t do it right. We will despite our unique history, population and  current state of division that would explode when people will flip out when their taxes will go through the roof while paying for the healthcare of those mooching off the system. What can possibly go wrong? When Americans are told specifics of what M4A would actually be when factoring taxes, loss of their private plans, etc, support for anything resembling M4A is less than 30%

 

If you're actually a successful attorney that's a huge indictment of our profession.

[jimmyjazz 46124]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

What government job do you have? 

The government of a privately-funded startup.

[hobbes2702 13065]

9 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Why would anyone argue that Europe is a role model? They are in decline and nearing revolution. 

Standards of living have declined across the continent. Populations are decreasing, most severely in Greece, Spain, and Italy. GDP has fallen 20% in Italy, 12% in France, 18% in Spain according to the World Bank. Sweden and all the rest of the outliers are on the same sinking ship. 

The French were told they could have prosperity and a 35 h our work week. It turns out, when you work less, everyone gets poorer. There has to be somebody producing the stuff you consume. Now they are angry they were lied to by politicians. The French people are to blame for believing in stupid shit now their grand tradition of protest means they have to destroy everything and start all over. 

Unfortunately, this all ends badly. But let's be just like them. 

I’d just like to point out that you mentioned THREE countries. There are FIFTY countries in Europe.

You should learn what “outlier” means. I’ll give you a hint... 3/50 is more like to be an outlier than 47/50.

[Captainant 27762]

3 hours ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Our country has an ethos based on individualism. Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps mythology and the American Dream of going from rags to riches. That’s why democratic socialism will never work here and goes against the grain of what it means to be a real American. We dream big here and are not content with economic parity.

Is that why you have big dreams of shooting immigrants?

[Thetexashammer 1062]

9 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I’d just like to point out that you mentioned THREE countries. There are FIFTY countries in Europe.

You should learn what “outlier” means. I’ll give you a hint... 3/50 is more like to be an outlier than 47/50.

All you have is "hints"? When do we get to see the real show. Quit teasing us. Show us the success story.

Will you still admire them when the AfD is in charge of Germany? Because they aren't a role model now, and they won't be a role model then. Everyone knows where this is headed.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Thetexashammer

[elfenix 34332]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

You’re banking on a small country of all whites?   Pretty racist.  

maybe grandpa should have been more capitalist and paid for his own portion of his fucking football stadium instead of leeching off the government.

Edited February 16, 2019 by elfenix

[hobbes2702 13065]

13 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

All you have is "hints"? When do we get to see the real show. Quit teasing us. Show us the success story.

Will you still admire them when the AfD is in charge of Germany? Because they aren't a role model now, and they won't be a role model then. Everyone knows where this is headed.

I literally don’t know what you’re trying to say I just think you shouldn’t use words if you don’t know what they mean. If your sentence is “and all the rest of the outliers”, odds are you’re using that word wrong.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

5 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I literally don’t know what you’re trying to say I just think you shouldn’t use words if you don’t know what they mean. If your sentence is “and all the rest of the outliers”, odds are you’re using that word wrong.

How many sigma from the mean would you have to be to be called an outlier? Enlighten us.

My point was they weren't outliers and you provided no evidence that they were outliers. Now I'll give you a hint: they aren't outliers.

[hpslugga 4062]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Stahp. The gop has given up the ground on any discussion where facts play a role. If you want to understand the rise of the current political milieu, look within. 

They gave that up about a generation ago. What they gave up recently was the ability to construct a pretense. Like they were full of shit before but they could make excuses that would fool the average person, but now they're just full of shit and don't care what you think about it.

[tx 3 putt 77398]

4 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Texas is an economic powerhouse because of one thing -- oil.  That's it.  Everything else followed on. 

 

And farming / ranching built on the backs of illegal migrant workers 

[Nivek 16983]

maybe grandpa should have been more capitalist and paid for his own portion of his fucking football stadium instead of leeching off the government.

It’s capitalism when the risk is socialized but the rewards are private.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I guess we can no longer say AOC hasn’t accomplished anything.

[kopp0e 1135]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I guess we can no longer say AOC hasn’t accomplished anything.

Well, she has now:

Who would have thought, politicians can act..?

[ChickenSandwich 9852]

11 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't know, ask Bill Gates.

Bill Gates thinks AOC is “missing the picture” actually. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/tech/bill-gates-slams-ocasio-cortez-says-her-tax-policy-is-missing-the-picture.amp

[Message Board User 12396]

 

[ChickenSandwich 9852]

Amazon should sue her ass for slander. 

[HenryJames 66169]

9 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Amazon should sue her ass for slander. 

[ChickenSandwich 9852]

Add him to the list

your point?

[Lurch 5931]

You're doing nothing but trolling. Quit claiming otherwise

And you’re quoting the obvious troll despite knowing that most of us put him on ignore because of it long ago. Quit quoting him.

[Dahobbs 17682]

46 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Amazon should sue her ass for slander. 

I am pretty sure her claims are at least partially true even, if exaggerated, based on what I've heard about the work environment from those that know. A slander (or libel) lawsuit would just open up that sort of stuff to discovery since truth is a defense. AOC seems to be the type that would love that. 

[bolverk 29717]

1 hour ago, Lurch said:

 

And you’re quoting the obvious troll despite knowing that most of us put him on ignore because of it long ago. Quit quoting him.

 

I don't think he's a troll - he's simply that dumb. His cherrypicking of GDP by individual countries doesn't capture the real story.

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=region:ECS:NAC&ifdim=region&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false

Looking at the linked chart, you can see that European GDP growth was outpacing that of North America by a substantial amount until the Great Recession. Now, what was the key policy difference between us and the EU in response to it? America: stimulus; Europe: austerity.

You can plainly see that our economy picked back up and has climbed steadily ever since, and theirs hasn't quite recovered. In fact, you'll see that they actually suffered another recession in 2014, but they weren't alone. Latin America, the Middle East, and Africa also saw their regional economies fall into recession again at the point. North America and East Asia were the exceptions.

I don't think you could single the difference to "socialist" policies if you're being quite honest because what the hell is China but an economic system almost entirely supported by State-backed enterprises?

Again, if you're being intellectually honest, you look at the broader data to get a clearer picture of what's going on. And part of that broader picture is recognizing the social implications for what austerity brought to Europe - the recent rise of nationalism due to discontent in falling/stagnant standards of living. In other words, it was the LACK of new government spending that has caused Europe to struggle.

The really interesting thing is seeing that in spite of the wider swings in European and North American economic growth is that we've ended up in virtually the same place.

If you care to see what's been going on internally within Europe, here's a chart showing GDP growth among the six biggest economies.

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:FRA:DEU:ITA:GBR:ESP:RUS&ifdim=region&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false

(Germany really took one in the ass after reunification as did Russia after oil prices plummeted in 2014.)