Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[immortal13 4059]

At least my gaff didn't cost thousands of jobs!! Lulz

[David Dennison 18646]

2 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

To be fair it didn't cost thousands of jobs because those jobs are just going somewhere else.  Just won't be in NY. 

I think NYC will be OK.

[immortal13 4059]

Eh fairness is overrated

[Guest Lobo]

I hope she uses my tweet I sent her, #AOC, "One day, President Trump's Presidential Library will receive as many visitors as that of President William Henry Harrison."  

We workshopped it, and of course, thousands of his loyal supporters responded with, "Yes, god willing.  Harrison was a great President, and Trump is even better."  

[Dbeasy 14961]

This forum has some of the best trolls and the fact you can’t see them is evidence of it. 

Maybe you are right. I was referring specifically to Iconoclast and ORC, and posters calling them trolls. Are they trolls?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13545]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s so bizarre that a rookie house representative is credited with preventing the richest man on earth from installing a headquarters in the already richest and liberal city in the United States.  

 

[jimmyjazz 45538]

You know, for being one of the few progressives in the real (historic) CR which led to me being called a troll on a near-daily basis, I really couldn't give a fuck if a few trolling conservative bitches get upset over being called a troll.  Do what's in your fucking heart and ignore what other people say.

[Atx71 146]

Oops....I'll.come back when the jerk-off incels.finish hate fucking AOC. In their feeble minds. 

Splooge away. 

[Brian Fantana 6667]

16 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Maybe you are right. I was referring specifically to Iconoclast and ORC, and posters calling them trolls. Are they trolls?

ORC is a troll. Iconoclast is just a fool.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

9 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Maybe you are right. I was referring specifically to Iconoclast and ORC, and posters calling them trolls. Are they trolls?

I work under the assumption every poster trolls sometimes, it’s part of the dynamics of a semi-anonymous forum.  I don’t like to brand posters as a troll or not a troll.

However, there are posters that troll more than others.  I find cookie and icono’s posts often disingenuous and clearly intended to provoke negative emotional responses, you know, trolling.  But I don’t think they do it 100% of the time.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, achooloco said:

Gsu’s and JJ’s sum it up better than I could. Amazon would fuck up the rent in ASTORIA and woodside, sunnyside, hell even Jackson heights. Jobs are great, but Not in favor of selling out for it. My buddy got about ten -15 of us (that I know of) to call our assembly people and tell them we don’t support amazon. Hell, They probably got more people to call than that. And he is queens born, Fordham raised, lives in a new tower half a block from the LIC shore and about two blocks from the spray painted LIC converted train/park that are in all the videos and shows.

Nyc can always get more jobs, nyc can’t make more land. Rent issues are the main issue for New Yorkers (well the ones I know). Fuck with that and getting common regular people to like you will be near impossible.

There is this although I support Amazon coming to Queens. And also AOC didn't kill shit.  She has no involvement at all. This is a city and state deal. Gianaris and Van Bramer are the ones who killed it.  Gianaris to the PACB was the nail in the coffin.

That being said, Amazon's abrupt about face seems shady. They put up zero fight. Makes me think there is something even worse about the deal that Amazon, Cuomo, and de Blasio don't want to come to light under the scrutiny that Gianaris was going to apply.

[Dbeasy 14961]

You know, for being one of the few progressives in the real (historic) CR which led to me being called a troll on a near-daily basis, I really couldn't give a fuck if a few trolling conservative bitches get upset over being called a troll.  Do what's in your fucking heart and ignore what other people say.

You can obviously do and say whatever you like. My comment didn’t really have anything to do with their feelings. It was more about how the majority of the progressive posters in the CR have chosen to derive satisfaction from the forum.

It’s more about spewing hatred, name calling and reaffirming existing viewpoints than debating with others. That’s ok. Nothing wrong with that. It’s the path you want. This is Surly after all, and Surly is a microcosm of our entire country right now. Let the anger flow baby.

However, as a financially responsible progressive, I find more satisfaction in trying to get people on some sort of common ground from which to hopefully accomplish something of value. To each his/her own.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

2 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Do I really have to point out to you that your data is cherry picked, focusing on a single minority group, and that violent crime in NYC is currently at a historic low? Like for real you're not fucking fooling anyone.

I see so the homeless encampments and the literal shit on the streets that I saw the last time I was in NY that wasn’t there when I lived there is a figment of my imagination. In the decade since I left, the quality of life has gone down with the condition of the subway in worse shape than it was, it’s a frequent topic in the Times, big increase in homelessness and crime. Why don’t you try to add something substantive and try to back up what you’re saying like I have.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[ChiTownDoc 21097]

3 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

And here we are, incensed and irate about a congresswoman costing a city 25k jobs that didn't actually exist yet by not bending the knee before a company demanding nearly $3 billion dollars in tax breaks from the state, and has that paid $0 in taxes on $16.8 billion dollars in profits over the past two years. It's awfully weird that we are also strangely radio silent about the real, actual, existing jobs that Trump's tariffs have already cost tens of thousands of people in this country.

Nah.  Bakeri Sellers pretty much laughed at her when asked about how she handled Amazon.  

I have been far from radio silent on Trump.  Stay objective.  Not just ‘woke’.  

[GHOSTUSER 361]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

You haven’t cited “facts”. You cited data points with no context, reference point, or demonstration of causality. At best, you implicitly half-invoked one or more of several logical fallacies of questionable cause of the post hoc variety.
In other words, you didn’t actually make an argument, which is shocking since that’s supposed to be your stock in trade as an attorney. My pride is fully intact, which is why I’ve got enough self-respect not to waste arrows on your bullshit, lightweight.

The reference point as I cited from WWOR is the increase in crime and homelessness in the de Blasio era versus the previous administrations. As peckerhead mentioned in his post, de Blasio has halted stop and frisk which was highly effective and a necessary deterrent in NY considering it is the prime target for terrorists and, for run of the mill crimes, de Blasio has abandoned the broken windows theory policing that Giuliani championed that helped bring down crime to the low levels they were. So I have provided context, reference points and causality. I think I have made a compelling argument even though I’m not a litigator.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[Brian Fantana 6667]

14 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Nah.  Bakeri Sellers pretty much laughed at her when asked about how she handled Amazon.  

I have been far from radio silent on Trump.  Stay objective.  Not just ‘woke’.  

Talking about onboard man, and yeah I agree she handled this badly. Crocodile tears over jobs that didn't exist yet make me chuckle though.

[Brian Fantana 6667]

18 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I see so the homeless encampments and the literal shit on the streets that I saw the last time I was in NY that wasn’t there when I lived there is a figment of my imagination. In the decade since I left, the quality of life has gone down with the condition of the subway in worse shape than it was, it’s a frequent topic in the Times, big increase in homelessness and crime. Why don’t you try to add something substantive and try to back up what you’re saying like I have.

Oh I see it's anecdote time. So you're refuting that crime in NYC is at an all time low?

6 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

The reference point as I cited from WWOR is the increase in crime by the homeless and homelessness in the de Blasio era versus the previous administrations. As peckerhead mentioned in his post, de Blasio has has halted stop and frisk which was highly effective and necessary deterrent in NY considering it is the prime target for terrorists and for run of the mill crimes, de Blasio has abandoned the broken windows theory policing that Giuliani championed that helped bring down crime to the low levels they were. So I have provided context, reference points and causality. I think I have made a compelling argument even though I’m not a litigator.

You haven't provided shit for context, and in fact are purposefully obscuring context by presenting cherry picked data from a small subset and presenting it as an increased crime rate when in fact crime in NYC is at an all time low which I've already pointed out and you conveniently ignored.

[David Dennison 18646]

11 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

The reference point as I cited from WWOR is the increase in crime and homelessness in the de Blasio era versus the previous administrations. As peckerhead mentioned in his post, de Blasio has has halted stop and frisk which was highly effective and necessary deterrent in NY considering it is the prime target for terrorists and for run of the mill crimes, de Blasio has abandoned the broken windows theory policing that Giuliani championed that helped bring down crime to the low levels they were. So I have provided context, reference points and causality. I think I have made a compelling argument even though I’m not a litigator.

Crime didn't go down in NY because of stop and frisk and broken windows. Crime was going down everywhere at the same time and NY happened to be a part of the overall trend in the United States.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

Maybe you are right. I was referring specifically to Iconoclast and ORC, and posters calling them trolls. Are they trolls?

I’m not a troll. I am just willing to spar with these assholes unlike some others. Lots of posters rightfully don’t want to be insulted for expressing an opinion and refuse to participate which is a big loss. Some of these very same posters would attack me on Hornfans back in 2003 for being opposed to the Iraq war. I’m used to having and defending unpopular opinions.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[seven 1366]

ORC's reaction to being called a troll is a perfect example of him being a troll. It's the exact same with chrispy. Argue a bullshit position with bullshit support and then when called out revert to the "aw shucks, I'm just a normal person and have no idea why everyone is attacking me, golly" routine. Each individual instance doesn't raise too many eyebrows but after the 100th iteration it's apparent what's going on. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

25 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

The reference point as I cited from WWOR is the increase in crime and homelessness in the de Blasio era versus the previous administrations. As peckerhead mentioned in his post, de Blasio has has halted stop and frisk which was highly effective and necessary deterrent in NY considering it is the prime target for terrorists and for run of the mill crimes, de Blasio has abandoned the broken windows theory policing that Giuliani championed that helped bring down crime to the low levels they were. So I have provided context, reference points and causality. I think I have made a compelling argument even though I’m not a litigator.

I want to be very clear that I do NOT believe that the policies of the Mayor of NY are the prime driver of crime rates. The prime driver is the local economy and poverty.

That being said. The premise of your statement is false. Crime isn't up. Crime is way down, particularly in misdemeanors or "broken glass" crimes. From both the Giuliani period and the Bloomberg era. 

The last year of Guiliani was 2001. Let's take a look at all major crime categories and see where we were and where we are now:

Major Felonies:

2001: 162908

2018: 95883

non-seven major felonies:

2001: 75708

2018: 52667

Misdemeanors:

2001: 403903

2018: 271630

violation offenses:

2001: 111001

2018: 71521

 

You're wrong and out of your depth, QED.

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Bozo_Casanova

[jimmyjazz 45538]

27 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Plenty have people made cogent arguments about why tax incentives and other pot sweeterners for Amazon might not be a good idea.  

ACO isn’t one of them. She showed that she doesn’t even understand the issue or how the tax incentives work with her $3 billion to spend on teachers nonsense, but the fact that she didn’t know what she was talking about didn’t stop her from weighing in on the deal and making all kinds of grandiose declarations.  It’s like the stuff Trump says when talking about tariffs or the national debt where you realize it’s not just that you disagree with him, but he literally doesn’t even understand the basics of how things work before taking a radical position.

And while you would have had a point six months ago, it’s completely disingenuous now to play the “Why are you making a big deal about what ACO says and not doing that for all the other idiot Congressmen” card.  She’s the most visible politician in the Democrat Party now, probably the most influential with voters, and all of the major Democrat players who have declared for 2020 have endorsed her absurd Green New Deal because they know she and her voters are driving the bus now.  It’s like some Trumpkin in late 2015 asking why people care about Trump’s gaffes and don’t make a big deal about Rick Santorum or some other also ran.

She is the one left-leaning people are following, and she’s a completely uninformed bullshit artist.  It’s like deja vu all over again, even down to the same ways Trumpkins defended Trump to excuse his bullshit.

I don't have a problem with anyone scoffing at her multiple faux pas.  

I have a problem with people claiming that she's the reason Amazon is not building HQ2a in Queens.  Amazon doesn't bow down to a freshman legislator . . . ever.

I also think you WAY overrate her "influence", and you WAY overrate the false equivalence to Trump.  But hey, it looks good on you.

[jimmyjazz 45538]

Just now, tjhooker said:

Who said on here she is THE REASON Amazon is pulling out? So much exaggeration. 

Jesus Christ, I've posted it twice already.  Onboard did.  Read, for once.

[achooloco 1065]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

There is this although I support Amazon coming to Queens. And also AOC didn't kill shit.  She has no involvement at all. This is a city and state deal. Gianaris and Van Bramer are the ones who killed it.  Gianaris to the PACB was the nail in the coffin.

That being said, Amazon's abrupt about face seems shady. They put up zero fight. Makes me think there is something even worse about the deal that Amazon, Cuomo, and de Blasio don't want to come to light under the scrutiny that Gianaris was going to apply.

Agreed, she commented on it but had no input. I definitely see why people would want them to come but there was some major push back behind the scenes and it seemed to kill the deal rather quickly. 

[achooloco 1065]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

The reference point as I cited from WWOR is the increase in crime and homelessness in the de Blasio era versus the previous administrations. As peckerhead mentioned in his post, de Blasio has halted stop and frisk which was highly effective and a necessary deterrent in NY considering it is the prime target for terrorists and, for run of the mill crimes, de Blasio has abandoned the broken windows theory policing that Giuliani championed that helped bring down crime to the low levels they were. So I have provided context, reference points and causality. I think I have made a compelling argument even though I’m not a litigator.

You didn’t even read your own article. There is no reference point citing de blasios policies caused the increase in crime committed by homeless people. The article itself says homelessness is up across the country (even during the greatest economy eva!!! according to dump trump) and that means it is up in nyc too, so how did de blasio cause either the homelsss to increase specifically in nyc or for more of them to commit crimes? Causation Link? Pleas use logic. 

And link to homeless camps? Facts showing there are more camps now then before?

stop and frisk was unconstitutional, you don’t seem to like the constitution much, so why are you here in this country again?

[wildcat09 29213]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I want to be very clear that I do NOT believe that the policies of the Mayor of NY are the prime driver of crime rates. The prime driver is the local economy and poverty.

That being said. The premise of your statement is false. Crime isn't up. Crime is way down, particularly in misdemeanors or "broken glass" crimes. From both the Giuliani period and the Bloomberg era. 

The last year of Guiliani was 2001. Let's take a look at all major crime categories and see where we were and where we are now:

Major Felonies:

2001: 162908

2018: 95883

non-seven major felonies:

2001: 75708

2018: 52667

Misdemeanors:

2001: 403903

2018: 271630

violation offenses:

2001: 111001

2018: 71521

 

You're wrong and out of your depth, QED.

 

It would've been easier to simply call him out for his disingenuous cherry-picking of one particular crime (groping by homeless people) as evidence that crime generally had increased by 10%.

I absolutely refuse to believe that Icono is a successful attorney, unless what he's successful at has nothing to do with practicing law. I could easily see him stumbling his way ass-backwards into some extremely dumb but lucrative grift, like Michael Cohen.

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

No offense, but the way he uses data tells me he could only be an attorney. 

[Brian Fantana 6667]

11 minutes ago, achooloco said:

You didn’t even read your own article. There is no reference point citing de blasios policies caused the increase in crime committed by homeless people. The article itself says homelessness is up across the country (even during the greatest economy eva!!! according to dump trump) and that means it is up in nyc too, so how did de blasio cause either the homelsss to increase specifically in nyc or for more of them to commit crimes? Causation Link? Pleas use logic. 

And link to homeless camps? Facts showing there are more camps now then before?

stop and frisk was unconstitutional, you don’t seem to like the constitution much, so why are you here in this country again?

Come on, dude, he saw it with his own eyes.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I want to be very clear that I do NOT believe that the policies of the Mayor of NY are the prime driver of crime rates. The prime driver is the local economy and poverty.

That being said. The premise of your statement is false. Crime isn't up. Crime is way down, particularly in misdemeanors or "broken glass" crimes. From both the Giuliani period and the Bloomberg era. 

The last year of Guiliani was 2001. Let's take a look at all major crime categories and see where we were and where we are now:

Major Felonies:

2001: 162908

2018: 95883

non-seven major felonies:

2001: 75708

2018: 52667

Misdemeanors:

2001: 403903

2018: 271630

violation offenses:

2001: 111001

2018: 71521

 

You're wrong and out of your depth, QED.

 

What are the numbers from Bloomberg’s last year in office vs 2018? My contention is that quality of life in NY has gone down since I moved in 2007 versus now. MTA is its own mess and can’t be pinned all on de Blasio because of its fucked up composition as a state agency. The subway is an abomination. I cited a significant increase in the homeless population and increased crime attributed to the homeless. It was noticeably worse the last time I was there. These all detract from quality of life and the buck stops with de Blasio.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[GHOSTUSER 361]

55 minutes ago, achooloco said:

You didn’t even read your own article. There is no reference point citing de blasios policies caused the increase in crime committed by homeless people. The article itself says homelessness is up across the country (even during the greatest economy eva!!! according to dump trump) and that means it is up in nyc too, so how did de blasio cause either the homelsss to increase specifically in nyc or for more of them to commit crimes? Causation Link? Pleas use logic. 

And link to homeless camps? Facts showing there are more camps now then before?

stop and frisk was unconstitutional, you don’t seem to like the constitution much, so why are you here in this country again?

Wrong. The homeless population has significantly gone down in Houston this decade unlike New York because of new policies that have been implemented that were first successful in Utah. I know this firsthand becuse my church changed one of its big outreach programs in response to the mayor’s new initiatives. Anise Parker and Sylvester Turner deserve a lot of credit. The mayor of a city can play a major role in exacerbating or reducing the homeless problem.

“An annual survey shows a 60 percent reduction since 2011, and credit is being given to an effort that provides permanent housing and support services. Yet many homelsss people are still visible on Houston’s streets.”

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2017/05/24/202410/houston-sees-continued-reduction-in-homeless-population/

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

What are the numbers from Bloomberg’s last year in office vs 2018? My contention is that quality of life in NY has gone down since I moved in 2007 versus now. MTA is its own mess and can’t be pinned all on de Blasio because of its fucked up composition as a state agency. The subway is an abomination. I cited a significant increase in the homeless population and increased crime attributed to the homeless. It was noticeably worse the last time I was there. These all detract from quality of life and the buck stops with de Blasio.

I linked to the numbers, genius. The facts don’t support you. Stop digging.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

53 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Come on, dude, he saw it with his own eyes.

You are getting close to overtaking David Dennison on the worst poster here. Keep it up. You’re adding a lot to the discussion

[GHOSTUSER 361]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I linked to the numbers, genius. The facts don’t support you. Stop digging.

You cited 2001 the last year for Giuliani. What were the numbers for Bloomberg? I’m curious.

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

You cited 2001 the last year for Giuliani. What were the numbers for Bloomberg? I’m curious.

I linked NYC crime stats in multiple categories. Click on them for PDFs of raw stats from 2000-2018.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

It would've been easier to simply call him out for his disingenuous cherry-picking of one particular crime (groping by homeless people) as evidence that crime generally had increased by 10%.

I absolutely refuse to believe that Icono is a successful attorney, unless what he's successful at has nothing to do with practicing law. I could easily see him stumbling his way ass-backwards into some extremely dumb but lucrative grift, like Michael Cohen.

Read better next time. Groping and ASSAULTS, two distinct crimes, are up. 

[jimmyjazz 45538]

I love watching people argue sociological issues with Bozo.

[sidis 9731]

5 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

You cited 2001 the last year for Giuliani. What were the numbers for Bloomberg? I’m curious.

seven major felonies

2013 - 111,335

2018 - 95,883

non major felonies

2013 - 57,650

2018 - 52,667

misdemeanors

2013 - 359,350

2018 - 271,630

 

 

[Brian Fantana 6667]

14 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

You are getting close to overtaking David Dennison on the worst poster here. Keep it up. You’re adding a lot to the discussion

Yes because I'm the one presenting data without context and personal anecdotes to back a fallacious argument. Stay in your fucking lane.

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

I love watching people argue sociological issues with Bozo.

He owned me by citing facts

[Coors yellow belly 105]

Let’s discuss broken window theory in an AOC thread

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Crime is really hard to measure though.  

[hpslugga 4042]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No offense, but the way he uses data tells me he could only be an attorney. 

Or a clone of Joan Peters 

[Brian Fantana 6667]

13 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Read better next time. Groping and ASSAULTS, two distinct crimes, are up. 

How can you seriously not understand context by now? This is why people call you a troll, because it seems like you're being purposefully obtuse to incite an argument. You are citing an increase in two particular crimes, committed specifically BY HOMELESS PEOPLE (which is what we call context). Despite your assertion, this does NOT equate to an overall increase in crime in NYC. It has been pointed out to you multiple times at this point that crime in NYC is at an overall historic low.

[wildcat09 29213]

23 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Read better next time. Groping and ASSAULTS, two distinct crimes, are up. 

Ah, yes. Everyone knows the only crimes in the state of New York are groping by a homeless person and assault by a homeless person.

[wildcat09 29213]

13 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

He owned me by citing facts

He crushed your emotion with cold hard facts and logic.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

33 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

How can you seriously not understand context by now? This is why people call you a troll, because it seems like you're being purposefully obtuse to incite an argument. You are citing an increase in two particular crimes, committed specifically BY HOMELESS PEOPLE (which is what we call context). Despite your assertion, this does NOT equate to an overall increase in crime in NYC. It has been pointed out to you multiple times at this point that crime in NYC is at an overall historic low.

When did I claim the entire crime rate is up? I mentioned the homeless population having increased and crimes attributed to them have increased. bozo shared numbers in the total crime rate. Thanks for doing that bozo. 

[Dahobbs 17420]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

My contention is that quality of life in NY has gone down since I moved in 2007 versus now.

Counterpoint: you left NY, therefore quality of life there has improved. QED.

[Nivek 16843]

First time I've ever seen conservatives pissed bc something did not happen to NYC?  Since when do they care about NYC unless its conservative outrage. 

Everyone knows the New Yorkers who got those jobs would just use it to pay for abortions....

[GHOSTUSER 361]

21 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Counterpoint: you left NY, therefore quality of life there has improved. QED.

They finally have a couple places serving real Tex-Mex now. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

When did I claim the entire crime rate is up?

Posts #5851 and #5901