Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

It was Bernie's idol, FDR, that spawned employer-based health insurance.  He could have gone a different, more progressive way.  But he didn't.  

That would be the one thing I'd change if you fuckers would put me in charge. PORTABILITY. Insurance shouldn't be tied to employment. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

It was Bernie's idol, FDR, that spawned employer-based health insurance.  He could have gone a different, more progressive way.  But he didn't.  

He tried to include it with social security.  The AMA nixed it.  And he didn't "spawn" employer health insurance.  Wartime wage and price controls did that.

Actually, the AMA has killed universal health care every time it was even discussed.  Even today, they are only 50/50 with younger doctors supporting UHC and olds opposing it.  Once the AMA flips, single payer will be right around the corner.

[Guest Lobo]

Wartime wage controls were his Executive Order.  It was an idea I very much agree with, in order to keep inflation from sending us back into a depression.  
But let's be adults, what did he think was gonna happen?  Employers, suffering an unprecedented labor shortage due to the war effort, were just gonna hang back and say, "Okay, cool.  To attract talent, we'll just offer company cell phones and craft beer in the break room."  ??  The only thing left to offer was health insurance and a pack of unfiltered Lucky Strikes.  He had been President for 10 years at that point, and his Secretary of Labor warned him this would happen.  There is absolutely zero chance that FDR did not see employer-sponsored health insurance as a direct consequence of his Executive Order.  No way in hell was he that naive.  Absolutely zero.  He had to pick between the lesser of two evils, but he could have also punted and installed nationalized health care two years later.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

I like that some of the incoming congress members are saying that they want immediate change.  From my uninformed standpoint, it seems like the old guard always expects the new members to sit down and shut up until they're on their 3rd or 4th term. 

[Guest Lobo]

Pelosi is in for a big surprise if she thinks her Speakership is a done deal.  

[Pig Bellmont 8679]

This thread is a fucking beating. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Wartime wage controls were his Executive Order.  It was an idea I very much agree with, in order to keep inflation from sending us back into a depression.  
But let's be adults, what did he think was gonna happen?  Employers, suffering an unprecedented labor shortage due to the war effort, were just gonna hang back and say, "Okay, cool.  To attract talent, we'll just offer company cell phones and craft beer in the break room."  ??  The only thing left to offer was health insurance and a pack of unfiltered Lucky Strikes.  He had been President for 10 years at that point, and his Secretary of Labor warned him this would happen.  There is absolutely zero chance that FDR did not see employer-sponsored health insurance as a direct consequence of his Executive Order.  No way in hell was he that naive.  Absolutely zero.  He had to pick between the lesser of two evils, but he could have also punted and installed nationalized health care two years later.  

He didn't really have the votes then or later. Neither did Truman when he tried to do it even after that.  I'm not saying he was naive.  Just that it was an unavoidable consequence during wartime.  The fault lies nearly entirely with the AMA, however.  What you're doing is the equivalent of Trump blaming Dems when he can't get legislation through his GOP led Congress.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

No one seems to be addressing the point of the poor over utilizing health care and they will be the ones who won’t be contributing virtually anything to it. At least now they self-ration by not going to see the doctor or electing to get medicine or needed procedures because they can’t afford it. Think of what would happen if you extrapolate the strain of what we see in Harris County with Ben Taub on a national scale and that’s with self-rationing going on! Think if the poor were unconstrained from availing themselves of health care. It will bankrupt this country. What irks the hell out of me is when progressives say access to universal health care is somehow a human right. It’s not. Because of our Judeo-Christian heritage we treat emergency needs without regard to ability to pay which I fully support. Expecting anything beyond that and couching that as some sort of fundamental right is ridiculous.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Iconoclast Texan

[jimmyjazz 45513]

Just now, Iconoclast Texan said:

No one seems to be addressing the point of the poor over utilizing health care and they will be the ones who won’t be contributing virtually anything to it. At least now they self-ration by not going to see the doctor or emergency room because they can’t afford it.

You're such a fucking troll.  Stop.

[Guest Lobo]

Didn't realize the other party controlled both houses of Congress during FDR's 1942 administration.  It was wartime, he gets a pass.  But he could have crafted a longgame for universal coverage after the war was over.  He had all silos of DC in his corner.  But he chose not to.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

21 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Pelosi is in for a big surprise if she thinks her Speakership is a done deal.  

It's going to come down to how many members had to promise that they wouldn't vote for her as speaker.    

Also a house member can vote "present" instead of voting for a Speaker candidate, which reduces the # needed for a majority.   If everyone votes, you need 218 votes to be Speaker.  If the House ends up 234-201, as many as 32 Dems could vote "present" and Pelosi can become Speaker with 202 votes.  

This would also allow all of those Dems to live up to their promise.  I seriously doubt they promised to vote for someone else.  They said they wouldn't support Pelosi for Speaker.  Those 2 promises are not the same.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

No one seems to be addressing the point of the poor over utilizing health care and they will be the ones who won’t be contributing virtually anything to it.

Yes I did. I even did it in all caps, just for you.

[Chad Fuck 17503]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

This thread is a fucking beating. 

I wish there was more to be fucking beating about.  If you know what I'm sayin'.

.

[safe sex 11659]

It's always those who are most publicly devout who are also the most full of shit.

[hayden_horn 11360]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

No one seems to be addressing the point of the poor over utilizing health care and they will be the ones who won’t be contributing virtually anything to it. At least now they self-ration by not going to see the doctor or electing to get medicine or needed procedures because they can’t afford it. Think of what would happen if you extrapolate the strain of what we see in Harris County with Ben Taub on a national scale and that’s with self-rationing going on! Think if the poor were unconstrained from availing themselves of health care. It will bankrupt this country. What irks the hell out of me is when progressives say access to universal health care is somehow a human right. It’s not. Because of our Judeo-Christian heritage we treat emergency needs without regard to ability to pay which I fully support. Expecting anything beyond that and couching that as some sort of fundamental right is ridiculous.

blessed are the poor, nah, nevermind, fuck the poor.

[atomheartbevo 89362]

2 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

It's always those who are most publicly devout who are also the most full of shit.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Really cool article about how AOC’s election and her openness and sharing on social media is inspiring and effecting women of color or women who feel they have to “hide themselves” to get ahead in what has been historically a white man’s domain.

[Agent47 157]

I've always said, why can't Pocahontas be president? She's a real Pocahontas, and I think she's gonna be president.

[Horn Dog 9644]

8 hours ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

If you are stuck with a HMO you have a shitty job or income. Find a different job with a PPO or if self-employed and that is all you can afford then that’s too bad.

 

8 hours ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

That’s one of many negatives to come from Obamacare. The hit to my pocketbook was severe from increased employee contributions and deductibles. 

Its like rain on your wedding day.....

[Hamttx 419]

7 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

You're such a fucking troll.  Stop.

I seldom agree with Icon on a number of points probably because there is almost 50 years of age between us. But in this case he made two well thought out points, both of which he took the effort to elaborate his reasons as to why he feels that why. So fuck you for back handing him, not adding anything to the discussion other then you think his ideas suck, and you offer shit for rebuttal. You entitled bitch.

You forget fuckers who are worn out tired about the non stop onslaught from the left about the hungry, poor, and the wretched. Especially coming from the same 1% that is part of the very 1% they are bitching about. Look where those fuckers live asshole. They don’t shop Costco.

Im a first generation American. Post war was an absolute mother fucker. My father a Spanish National who survived the Spanish civil war, my mother went 0-2 in world wars. We never had a fucking thing growing up but the hope it would get better. And I’m not even going to tell you the shit we went through living in the south. My parents worked at least three jobs at any one time just to feed their children. Yeah, it took a long time to assimilate and finally enjoy the American dream. That shit took time, effort and years of eating god damn pancake batter. Fuck anyone getting a short cut. Not doing their share, and the politicians who sell the poor bastards that false sense of entitlement. Without the work.

its like anything else in life. If you have to earn it there is a better then average chance you will care for it. If you figure out a way to get your employer to give you health insurance as a perk, good for you. 

And lastly I’m a flawed man. I may not be half as smart as the majority of the posters on this site. But I busted my balls doing everything from being a god damn janitor cleaning up the shitters of the upper class, to working and retiring with 40 years of service as a railroad employee. So I fully understand giving a fucker a chance. But do it legally, don’t think you’re owed shit, and think for yourself. Nothing is free, you have to earn it. And you know what? Sometimes you still get fucked! But the deal is this country offers opportunity....get it. No one was ever guaranteed shit. And that you get the GT3, the beach house or even the basic things in life like three squares. That shit is on the individual. Where it should be.

 

[tantric superman 4667]

Yeah, you seem flawed.

[David Dennison 18603]

37 minutes ago, Hamttx said:

Nothing is free, you have to earn it.

Most of the time, but not always. 

[jimmyjazz 45513]

1 hour ago, Hamttx said:

I seldom agree with Icon on a number of points probably because there is almost 50 years of age between us. But in this case he made two well thought out points, both of which he took the effort to elaborate his reasons as to why he feels that why. So fuck you for back handing him, not adding anything to the discussion other then you think his ideas suck, and you offer shit for rebuttal. You entitled bitch.

You forget fuckers who are worn out tired about the non stop onslaught from the left about the hungry, poor, and the wretched. Especially coming from the same 1% that is part of the very 1% they are bitching about. Look where those fuckers live asshole. They don’t shop Costco.

Im a first generation American. Post war was an absolute mother fucker. My father a Spanish National who survived the Spanish civil war, my mother went 0-2 in world wars. We never had a fucking thing growing up but the hope it would get better. And I’m not even going to tell you the shit we went through living in the south. My parents worked at least three jobs at any one time just to feed their children. Yeah, it took a long time to assimilate and finally enjoy the American dream. That shit took time, effort and years of eating god damn pancake batter. Fuck anyone getting a short cut. Not doing their share, and the politicians who sell the poor bastards that false sense of entitlement. Without the work.

its like anything else in life. If you have to earn it there is a better then average chance you will care for it. If you figure out a way to get your employer to give you health insurance as a perk, good for you. 

And lastly I’m a flawed man. I may not be half as smart as the majority of the posters on this site. But I busted my balls doing everything from being a god damn janitor cleaning up the shitters of the upper class, to working and retiring with 40 years of service as a railroad employee. So I fully understand giving a fucker a chance. But do it legally, don’t think you’re owed shit, and think for yourself. Nothing is free, you have to earn it. And you know what? Sometimes you still get fucked! But the deal is this country offers opportunity....get it. No one was ever guaranteed shit. And that you get the GT3, the beach house or even the basic things in life like three squares. That shit is on the individual. Where it should be.

 

Wonderful essay.

It has jack shit to do with my post, but wonderful essay.

I haven't the foggiest what you are on about.

[David Dennison 18603]

21 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Wonderful essay.

It has jack shit to do with my post, but wonderful essay.

I haven't the foggiest what you are on about.

Something about nothing is free and everyone has to earn their way in the world.

Everyone knows this isn't true, but we like to pretend it is. 

[jimmyjazz 45513]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Something about nothing is free and everyone has to earn their way in the world.

Everyone knows this isn't true, but we like to pretend it is. 

I was specifically reacting to Icono's trolling about the poor currently not utilizing the ER "because they can't afford it", which apparently triggered hamttx's bizarre (and groundless) rant about what he perceives to be my elevated position in the American caste system.

[Gil Bang 25865]

2 hours ago, Hamttx said:

I seldom agree with Icon on a number of points probably because there is almost 50 years of age between us. But in this case he made two well thought out points, both of which he took the effort to elaborate his reasons as to why he feels that why. So fuck you for back handing him, not adding anything to the discussion other then you think his ideas suck, and you offer shit for rebuttal. You entitled bitch.

You forget fuckers who are worn out tired about the non stop onslaught from the left about the hungry, poor, and the wretched. Especially coming from the same 1% that is part of the very 1% they are bitching about. Look where those fuckers live asshole. They don’t shop Costco.

Im a first generation American. Post war was an absolute mother fucker. My father a Spanish National who survived the Spanish civil war, my mother went 0-2 in world wars. We never had a fucking thing growing up but the hope it would get better. And I’m not even going to tell you the shit we went through living in the south. My parents worked at least three jobs at any one time just to feed their children. Yeah, it took a long time to assimilate and finally enjoy the American dream. That shit took time, effort and years of eating god damn pancake batter. Fuck anyone getting a short cut. Not doing their share, and the politicians who sell the poor bastards that false sense of entitlement. Without the work.

its like anything else in life. If you have to earn it there is a better then average chance you will care for it. If you figure out a way to get your employer to give you health insurance as a perk, good for you. 

And lastly I’m a flawed man. I may not be half as smart as the majority of the posters on this site. But I busted my balls doing everything from being a god damn janitor cleaning up the shitters of the upper class, to working and retiring with 40 years of service as a railroad employee. So I fully understand giving a fucker a chance. But do it legally, don’t think you’re owed shit, and think for yourself. Nothing is free, you have to earn it. And you know what? Sometimes you still get fucked! But the deal is this country offers opportunity....get it. No one was ever guaranteed shit. And that you get the GT3, the beach house or even the basic things in life like three squares. That shit is on the individual. Where it should be.

 

Unless you're Donald Trump, and Daddy has given you a million dollars by the time you're 8 years old.  But hey, I'm sure he picked up his toys when mommy told him to. 

[SaucyJack 3484]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Something about nothing is free and everyone has to earn their way in the world.

Everyone knows this isn't true, but we like to pretend it is. 

Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin' if you want to be with me

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:53 PM, Bama Chick said:

Really cool article about how AOC’s election and her openness and sharing on social media is inspiring and effecting women of color or women who feel they have to “hide themselves” to get ahead in what has been historically a white man’s domain.
 

What does red lipstick have to do with being Latina? 

[Celery Man 20874]

Edited November 18, 2018 by Celery Man

[FondrenRoad 4378]

11 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Yeah its perceived as a sexual shade. It isn't unique to Latinas though or even primarily Latina. 

John Michael Mongtgomery talked about ruby red lips, blonde hair, blue eyes.

[Celery Man 20874]

Certainly other female demos wear bright red lipstick, but it is a "thing" with latina women.  Honestly I hadn't even thought about it before that quote, but Selena was the first thing I thought of and it seems like there is some history/cultural importance to it

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/latinas-red-lipstick-meaning

[Thetexashammer 1062]

On 11/16/2018 at 1:55 PM, hayden_horn said:

blessed are the poor, nah, nevermind, fuck the poor.

The actual quote is: “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

[bad_teammate 13125]

[softlynow 1774]

22 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

The actual quote is: “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

In Matthew 5:3, sure. But Luke 6:20 lacks “in spirit.” Luke was probably the earlier written gospel.

And the “in spirit” is most often interpreted to mean that simply being poor doesn’t confer the special blessed status, but being fully understanding of poverty through that experience does. It’s a narrowing of the class, not a change of type, of folks with the auto-admission. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

6 minutes ago, softlynow said:

In Matthew 5:3, sure. But Luke 6:20 lacks “in spirit.” Luke was probably the earlier written gospel.

And the “in spirit” is most often interpreted to mean that simply being poor doesn’t confer the special blessed status, but being fully understanding of poverty through that experience does. It’s a narrowing of the class, not a change of type, of folks with the auto-admission. 

Back in the day, you would understand that there were both deserving poor, and undeserving poor. Some are born into it and did nothing, some earned their way into it. And it is an admonition to the wealthy (not meant to be interpreted literally), that they ought not think too highly of themselves, as they too came from ashes and to ashes they will return.

[softlynow 1774]

3 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Back in the day, you would understand that there were both deserving poor, and undeserving poor. Some are born into it and did nothing, some earned their way into it. And it is an admonition to the wealthy (not meant to be interpreted literally), that they ought not think too highly of themselves, as they too came from ashes and to ashes they will return.

Exciting, immaterial stuff. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

1 minute ago, softlynow said:

Exciting, immaterial stuff. 

As opposed to 46 pages devoted to the worship of Alexandria Ocasio Cortez?

[Celery Man 20874]

22 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

As opposed to 46 pages devoted to the worship of Alexandria Ocasio Cortez?

also immaterial to this thread

[Bama Chick 28596]

Certainly other female demos wear bright red lipstick, but it is a "thing" with latina women.  Honestly I hadn't even thought about it before that quote, but Selena was the first thing I thought of and it seems like there is some history/cultural importance to it
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/latinas-red-lipstick-meaning

Yeah and in professional settings, excepting industries like fashion or beauty or entertainment, look around at the women you encounter (not creepily though).

You won’t find a whole lot of bright red lipstick.

It’s had a history of reading as cheap or promiscuous - a woman not to be taken seriously.

Like, you see a guy working at a law firm in a black suit with a turquoise shirt and black tie. That reads as someone who is out of place or doesn’t belong.

And a lot of those types of things - makeup and fashion and hair - are also associated with ethnicity and class. Latina women and red lipstick, black guys and dreads, small town girls and big hair, country guys and cowboy boots.

And I know the cowboy boots thing will be triggering for a bunch of Texans but put them on a young, low level staffer in DC or a first year lawyer or stockbroker in NYC and it marks the wearer as “other” and people make assumptions based on a stereotype regardless of your education or skill before they even get to know you.

You’re automatically playing catch-up to the guy in the right suit and shoes or the woman with the right navy dress and $300 haircut and neutral makeup. Even if that woman got her suit at Off Fifth on clearance, has a friend who cuts her hair at a discount, and gets her makeup at Walgreens.

Men don’t notice it as much but there’s a whole sociological undercurrent of what your clothing and hair and makeup communicate in a professional setting and how it ties into ethnicity and class and regional stereotypes.

It’s fascinating to me because it happens to all of us and we all judge others on it but we usually aren’t even aware of it.

I do some volunteer work with a group that helps women who have been in abusive situations or other situations where they are trying to get their life back on track and our focus is on how to write a resume and how to dress for an interview and how to interview. It’s can be an awkward situation to try and explain to a woman why that dress she feels great in is fine for the club but not so much for an interview at an accounting firm. Or trying to tactfully tell someone their makeup isn’t work appropriate.

[Celery Man 20874]

2 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Like, you see a guy working at a law firm in a black suit with a turquoise shirt and black tie. That reads as someone who is out of place or doesn’t belong.
 

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

12 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Yeah and in professional settings, excepting industries like fashion or beauty or entertainment, look around at the women you encounter (not creepily though).

You won’t find a whole lot of bright red lipstick.

It’s had a history of reading as cheap or promiscuous - a woman not to be taken seriously.

Like, you see a guy working at a law firm in a black suit with a turquoise shirt and black tie. That reads as someone who is out of place or doesn’t belong.

And a lot of those types of things - makeup and fashion and hair - are also associated with ethnicity and class. Latina women and red lipstick, black guys and dreads, small town girls and big hair, country guys and cowboy boots.

And I know the cowboy boots thing will be triggering for a bunch of Texans but put them on a young, low level staffer in DC or a first year lawyer or stockbroker in NYC and it marks the wearer as “other” and people make assumptions based on a stereotype regardless of your education or skill before they even get to know you.

You’re automatically playing catch-up to the guy in the right suit and shoes or the woman with the right navy dress and $300 haircut and neutral makeup. Even if that woman got her suit at Off Fifth on clearance, has a friend who cuts her hair at a discount, and gets her makeup at Walgreens.

Men don’t notice it as much but there’s a whole sociological undercurrent of what your clothing and hair and makeup communicate in a professional setting and how it ties into ethnicity and class and regional stereotypes.

It’s fascinating to me because it happens to all of us and we all judge others on it but we usually aren’t even aware of it.

I do some volunteer work with a group that helps women who have been in abusive situations or other situations where they are trying to get their life back on track and our focus is on how to write a resume and how to dress for an interview and how to interview. It’s can be an awkward situation to try and explain to a woman why that dress she feels great in is fine for the club but not so much for an interview at an accounting firm. Or trying to tactfully tell someone their makeup isn’t work appropriate.

 

I dont see how dreads is even in the same ballpark. Latinas didn't invent or popularize red lipstick.

I suppose what you're trying to say is that red lipstick has a stigma for "whore" among white people and that for Latinas it doesn't mean that. However, neither of those is exactly true.

 

 

And I am not saying that there aren't other things they are overcoming. Red lipstick simply isn't one of them which is why I thought it was an odd tweet.

Edited November 18, 2018 by FondrenRoad

[Anastasis 23375]

20 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Men don’t notice it as much but there’s a whole sociological undercurrent of what your clothing and hair and makeup communicate in a professional setting and how it ties into ethnicity and class and regional stereotypes.

Maybe right. But I try to listen to people who are smart, even if they look like total slobs.

[Agent47 157]

Wtf are you people talking about.

[Bama Chick 28596]

lol that’s not red lipstick on Hillary.

That’s a dusty pink.

Seriously, y’all going to argue makeup with me?

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, Bama Chick said:

lol that’s not red lipstick on Hillary.

That’s a dusty pink.

Seriously, y’all going to argue makeup with me?

So you don't have any red lipstick at all in your makeup cabinet?   That would be unbelievable.  And that is red on Hillary.  So is this.

\

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

Back in the day, you would understand that there were both deserving poor, and undeserving poor. Some are born into it and did nothing, some earned their way into it. And it is an admonition to the wealthy (not meant to be interpreted literally), that they ought not think too highly of themselves, as they too came from ashes and to ashes they will return.

If only I could be so sure of my position in the order of things, to go around parsing and narrowly construing the word of God.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Red kind of fits right in actually.

[Bama Chick 28596]

And I’m also not talking about people who have already reached the top of the ladder - like Hillary.

Read my post and read the article I linked. It talks about people just starting their careers and finding their footing.

And why are dreads any different than any other fashion adornment as far as making an impression in the workplace? They all ultimately mean nothing about how someone performs their job but can contribute to how others perceive and judge you.

And that’s why women like the one in the article don’t wear that patterned dress or wipe off the red lipstick. They look around and see that they are the only one that looks that way so they change to fit in to advance.

And if those things are linked to their culture or ethnicity or regional upbringing that can result in some conflicting emotions. Am I downplaying my identity to pass? Am I required to?

There’s no right or wrong - it’s just something a lot of people do all the time and don’t think twice about.

And if you Google “Latina red lipstick” this is the shade being referred to. But again, Hillary isn’t a great example - she isn’t a newbie trying to climb the ladder.

[Bama Chick 28596]

So you don't have any red lipstick at all in your makeup cabinet?   That would be unbelievable.  And that is red on Hillary.  So is this.
\

No, I don’t own a single tube of red lipstick. It looks terrible on me.

And again, you’re missing the point of the article and my post.

Hillary and Nancy are horrible examples for you to use to make your point.

These are white women at the top of the power structure. Not young WOC breaking into a world that isn’t usually a place for them.

And nothing is 100%. I’m sure somewhere there’s a young staffer somewhere sporting blood red lipstick but there’s also a senior person in her office judging her.

I mean, there was a whole shitstorm just this week judging AOC for her clothing. And honestly women are harder on other women than men are about these things.

But just because red lipstick is a relatively minor thing and seems frivolous, it’s easy to dismiss the discussion. The red lipstick is just an easy example of a complex phenomenon.