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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

And I’m also not talking about people who have already reached the top of the ladder - like Hillary.

Read my post and read the article I linked. It talks about people just starting their careers and finding their footing.

And why are dreads any different than any other fashion adornment as far as making an impression in the workplace? They all ultimately mean nothing about how someone performs their job but can contribute to how others perceive and judge you.

And that’s why women like the one in the article don’t wear that patterned dress or wipe off the red lipstick. They look around and see that they are the only one that looks that way so they change to fit in to advance.

And if those things are linked to their culture or ethnicity or regional upbringing that can result in some conflicting emotions. Am I downplaying my identity to pass? Am I required to?

There’s no right or wrong - it’s just something a lot of people do all the time and don’t think twice about.

And if you Google “Latina red lipstick” this is the shade being referred to. But again, Hillary isn’t a great example - she isn’t a newbie trying to climb the ladder.

fa114f0906e98e4327451387b47b6ef3.jpg

If I google "black red lipstick" or "asian red lipstick", who do you think is going to come up?

If I google just red lipstick, it comes up with a variety of mostly white girls including Taylor Swift.  What I'm saying that it isn't a cultural identity item, nor is it something that most women of any color avoid, including Hillary and Pelosi who have likely been wearing it since the 60s or 70s.  99% of 28 year old women don't dress like politicians, but even there, it isn't uniquely Latina to dress one way at the club and another at the office.  Everyone does that.

I mean, comparing it to dreads?  Come on. 

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henrygandorf
henrygandorf

oh, and to add, let's offer up a 'comparable' analogy reversal and see how it fits.  who's the aoc of the right?  jim jordan?  matt gaetz? this is basically like if there was a huge earthquake he

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

some people see 99% and consider that absolutism.  i am one of those people. this is not your wife grabbing your cell phone that you left in the other room.  this is not a quick favor.  this is a

RomaVicta
RomaVicta

Yes, of course. She is the only woman or woman of color the left right (edit) focuses their ire on. There are no other examples. Great point. It's really all intellectual and rational. And usually ver

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 


No, I don’t own a single tube of red lipstick. It looks terrible on me.

And again, you’re missing the point of the article and my post.

Hillary and Nancy are horrible examples for you to use to make your point.

These are white women at the top of the power structure. Not young WOC breaking into a world that isn’t usually a place for them.

And nothing is 100%. I’m sure somewhere there’s a young staffer somewhere sporting blood red lipstick but there’s also a senior person in her office judging her.

I mean, there was a whole shitstorm just this week judging AOC for her clothing. And honestly women are harder on other women than men are about these things.

But just because red lipstick is a relatively minor thing and seems frivolous, it’s easy to dismiss the discussion. The red lipstick is just an easy example of a complex phenomenon.

 

No doubt, people are harder on women. All women.  Red lipstick simply isn't culturally Latina. 

Tan suit complaints notwithstanding.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

Ugh, dudes.

See, you say this, but at least women in Congress get to have some variety.  Its the reason it gets discussed.  Women actually have options.  Can you name a single instance of a Congressman going to work in something else other than a generic suit?  Really, they don't even mix it up with a Santa tie for Christmas.  They should.  I'd like to see a bold young Congressman go tieless, or gasp, even business casual.

Even in a non-Congressional office, "business casual" is practically a uniform for men while it offers women more freedom of choice.  I'd rather show off my cultural identity with a T-shirt and shorts personally.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

Posted
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See, you say this, but at least women in Congress get to have some variety.  Its the reason it gets discussed.  Women actually have options.  Can you name a single instance of a Congressman going to work in something else other than a generic suit?  Really, they don't even mix it up with a Santa tie for Christmas.  They should.  I'd like to see a bold young Congressman go tieless, or gasp, even business casual.
Even in a non-Congressional office, "business casual" is practically a uniform for men while it offers women more freedom of choice.  I'd rather show off my cultural identity with a T-shirt and shorts personally.


Jesus, THIS is what you took from this discussion??

That your wardrobe is oppressed??

No one is stopping you from busting out a dress.

915ddecb98cf3ab6ee7f4621394250f9.jpg

I’ll wait for someone thoughtful to join the discussion, until then I’m bowing out.

Seriously, ugh dudes.
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Bill Brasky

Bill Brasky 1622

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

 


Jesus, THIS is what you took from this discussion??

That your wardrobe is oppressed??

No one is stopping you from busting out a dress.

915ddecb98cf3ab6ee7f4621394250f9.jpg

I’ll wait for someone thoughtful to join the discussion, until then I’m bowing out.

Seriously, ugh dudes.

 

here is something not really thoughtful: new york latina congresswoman barbie is a fucking idiot.   

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
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8 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

 


Jesus, THIS is what you took from this discussion??

That your wardrobe is oppressed??

No one is stopping you from busting out a dress.

915ddecb98cf3ab6ee7f4621394250f9.jpg

I’ll wait for someone thoughtful to join the discussion, until then I’m bowing out.

Seriously, ugh dudes.

 

You're reading too much into it.  Anyone can wear whatever they want except shorts. Women actually do.  Men don't.  Regardless, the existence of a work dress code at all means that everyone is technically oppressed.

This discussion is about how you are wrong about red lipstick being only for Latinas.  By all means though, run a test. Wear red lipstick tomorrow and ask people what they think about it. Then wear dreads the next day and ask people what they think about it. You will see the difference then. 

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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11860

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9 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

About half or more consists of texan people like you running her down. A freshman rep from whogivesafuck New York. 

The GOP has to have that boogeyman female under the bed to fear and hate.  She took a backseat while Obama was President but only slightly. They’re like a bunch of repressed Norman Bates with mommy issues or something.  Look at Mike Pence for god’s sake.   AOC is just the latest punching bag.  Nancy, Elizabeth Warren, any female with any semblance of power makes them piss down their legs.   Hell, they elected Donald fucking Trump, with less than the popular vote, because Hillary made them cower, shake and sweat like a masturbating church of Christ deacon.

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4668

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Again, the perfect set up.  A few high profile progressive dems pushing the envelope.  Moderate dems feeling the pressure not to be too conservative.  Moderate dems finding common ground with moderate Republicans to reach a consensus that doesn't accomplish what the progressive wants, but moves the needle forward and hopefully takes at least a fucking nod to fiscal responsibility. 

Should work the other way too on non-social issue, fiscally responsible Republican issues, should any of those ever rise up out of the shitpile that Trump and his minions have created.

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26893

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Posted (edited)

Just swanning past to remark on two things:

1. Thread needs more titties. Don't care whose.

2. Latino/Latina/Latin America is a concept invented by the French during the time of Nappy III to justify the Frogs hopping all over Mexico and any other place in the old Spanish Empire that they could zap their Frog tongues. The idea was to go "Alors, why do you clevair "latin" types resist our Johnny Crapaud attempts to dominate you, when we 'ave ze 'ow you say common Roman 'eritage, not like zose sales rosbifs de putain merde de sa race d'anglais et USA USA ze same damn thing, quoi?" And it worked, sort of-- any French character on a telenovela is admired and imitated. But a real Mexicana told me when she hears somebody call themselves "latino" she suspects the person is bogus and possesses numerous character flaws. Me personally, I don't care if part-Puerto-Rican people from NYC call themselves a name from central Italy. Just give me more titties. Don't care whose.

2b. The Nixon administration invented "Hispanic".

2c. Scotch-Irish is also invented. Protestant military settlers in Ireland who later hit the beach in America were appalled at being lumped in with potato-scratchers. They weren't all of Scottish heritage, in fact it was popular in the 1800s to just claim English. But then Sir Walter Scott got popular. If you really dig back a ways, the old kingdom of Northumbria would be a better fit, it was on both side of the present English/Scottish border. Northumbrian is the coolest ethnic name ever.

tldr: I'm a redneck, everything is made up, and we need more titties, don't care whose.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11876

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When I say, “I don’t give a fuck” it’s not because I don’t have empathy for Latinas being “judged” for wearing red lipstick.  

It’s because I don’t find that to be a bias even remotely on the order of baseline race/sex discrimination.  

It’s a fucking slight, those are never going to end. The equality movement does itself a disservice advancing this kind of narrative.

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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 11/16/2018 at 9:40 PM, jimmyjazz said:

I was specifically reacting to Icono's trolling about the poor currently not utilizing the ER "because they can't afford it", which apparently triggered hamttx's bizarre (and groundless) rant about what he perceives to be my elevated position in the American caste system.

I didn’t say that the poor don’t use the ER and wasn’t trying to troll dumbass. If poors have am emergency they of course get treated without concern of their ability to pay. What I was saying is the drain on the more routine needs that wouldn’t get reimbursed. Just look at what happened with Obamacare. The people who signed up were sicker and used more health care than expected. It would be that in steroids with universal “free” government run health care.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19542

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24 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I didn’t say that the poor don’t use the ER and wasn’t trying to troll dumbass. If poors have am emergency they of course get treated without concern of their ability to pay. What I was saying is the drain on the more routine needs that wouldn’t get reimbursed. Just look at what happened with Obamacare. The people who signed up were sicker and used more health care than expected. It would be that in steroids with universal “free” government run health care.

Sounds just like Medicare.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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When I say, “I don’t give a fuck” it’s not because I don’t have empathy for Latinas being “judged” for wearing red lipstick.  
It’s because I don’t find that to be a bias even remotely on the order of baseline race/sex discrimination.  
It’s a fucking slight, those are never going to end. The equality movement does itself a disservice advancing this kind of narrative.


It’s like you didn’t read the article or my posts and just got defensive about what you thought they were both about.

Neither the article nor my posts in any way equated the lipstick thing to discrimination. Discrimination wasn’t even a topic.

Why are you arguing and being defensive about a topic that wasn’t even brought up?

The point - if you would bother to read it and not jump to conclusions - was that there are sometimes cultural or regional fashion differences that are minor but can make a person feel extra aware of their “otherness” beyond their skin color or gender or accent that they didn’t even consider until they start to work within the “establishment”.

It’s not being discussed from the viewpoint of how the establishment treats that but how the individual conforms and erases parts of their identity to fit in and move up.

It’s not evil. It’s normal. It happens to everyone. The point of the article was how the changing face of congress because of this latest election - and people like AOC - are allowing individuals that historically may have felt compelled to wipe off the red lipstick or trim their natural curls to pause and feel comfortable outfitting themselves as they always have.

And look no further than the stupid crap from last week about AOC and her clothes to see that it actually happens.

If she had shown up for orientation in a bright colored hoochie dress, certain people would have decried her unprofessionalism and unsuitability for congress.

Yet she shows up in an appropriate navy suit and some creeper sneaks a picture of her and sends it to an alt-right dipwad so he can tweet it along with his snarky assumption that she must be lying about her financial struggles since she actually showed up in work appropriate clothing.

And no, that’s not discrimination. It’s bigotry. And all it takes is one or two people in a workplace to have those expectations that make the individual - be it a Latina woman or a poor white guy from Mississippi or a black man with dreads or a butch lesbian - to rethink how they dress or what makeup they wear or how they do their hair and change it so they don’t stand out.

I nor the article accused anyone of denying someone a job or a promotion or opportunity over makeup or hair or clothing.

All I did was post a link to an article from a woman who shared her personal experience and said that seeing someone like AOC not erasing who she is and still getting elected made her feel comfortable to be herself in her workplace. And I think that’s a good thing.

And then some people here got pretty defensive over an argument not being made and took the discussion to an extreme. I wonder why that is?
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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19455

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

 


It’s like you didn’t read the article or my posts and just got defensive about what you thought they were both about.

Neither the article nor my posts in any way equated the lipstick thing to discrimination. Discrimination wasn’t even a topic.

Why are you arguing and being defensive about a topic that wasn’t even brought up?

The point - if you would bother to read it and not jump to conclusions - was that there are sometimes cultural or regional fashion differences that are minor but can make a person feel extra aware of their “otherness” beyond their skin color or gender or accent that they didn’t even consider until they start to work within the “establishment”.

It’s not being discussed from the viewpoint of how the establishment treats that but how the individual conforms and erases parts of their identity to fit in and move up.

It’s not evil. It’s normal. It happens to everyone. The point of the article was how the changing face of congress because of this latest election - and people like AOC - are allowing individuals that historically may have felt compelled to wipe off the red lipstick or trim their natural curls to pause and feel comfortable outfitting themselves as they always have.

And look no further than the stupid crap from last week about AOC and her clothes to see that it actually happens.

If she had shown up for orientation in a bright colored hoochie dress, certain people would have decried her unprofessionalism and unsuitability for congress.

Yet she shows up in an appropriate navy suit and some creeper sneaks a picture of her and sends it to an alt-right dipwad so he can tweet it along with his snarky assumption that she must be lying about her financial struggles since she actually showed up in work appropriate clothing.

And no, that’s not discrimination. It’s bigotry. And all it takes is one or two people in a workplace to have those expectations that make the individual - be it a Latina woman or a poor white guy from Mississippi or a black man with dreads or a butch lesbian - to rethink how they dress or what makeup they wear or how they do their hair and change it so they don’t stand out.

I nor the article accused anyone of denying someone a job or a promotion or opportunity over makeup or hair or clothing.

All I did was post a link to an article from a woman who shared her personal experience and said that seeing someone like AOC not erasing who she is and still getting elected made her feel comfortable to be herself in her workplace. And I think that’s a good thing.

And then some people here got pretty defensive over an argument not being made and took the discussion to an extreme. I wonder why that is?

 

Stahp... just fucking stahp already.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11876

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And no, that’s not discrimination. It’s bigotry. And all it takes is one or two people in a workplace to have those expectations that make the individual - be it a Latina woman or a poor white guy from Mississippi or a black man with dreads or a butch lesbian - to rethink how they dress or what makeup they wear or how they do their hair and change it so they don’t stand out.

giphy.gif

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AbeFroman

AbeFroman 3113

Posted
Posted
On 11/18/2018 at 8:49 AM, Bill Brasky said:

here is something not really thoughtful: new york latina congresswoman barbie is a fucking idiot.   

She seems about on the level as the one from Delaware, forgot her name, that publicly asked why monkeys weren't still evolving into humans today, you know like right in front of us.

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Tom

Tom 2960

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

 

She's great on twitter

 

Yes she is.

And that's such a tired argument from Cardillo.  Yes, God forbid if people in farming states where hardly anyone lives weren't able to hold the majority of the country politically hostage with their electoral over-representation.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

It will be interesting to see how long she can keep this up. 

Also, if she can't what are the factors that cause it.

 

She’s gonna have a great career.  She’s a lot like Trump.  Good shitposter. Facts aren’t really what’s important.  She has an attractive message.

But how are we gonna pay for it?!?! = That’s not how trade deficits work!!1!

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staboner

staboner 5084

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Tom said:

 

Yes she is.

And that's such a tired argument from Cardillo.  Yes, God forbid if people in farming states where hardly anyone lives weren't able to hold the majority of the country politically hostage with their electoral over-representation.

the EC is just terrible. some guy in wyoming has 52X more voting power than me. how this is still happening is crazy. 

great Radio Lab on ranked voting earlier this month. something else interesting to discuss (in terms of changing shit in our retarded political system) 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 47203

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, staboner said:

the EC is just terrible. some guy in wyoming has 52X more voting power than me.

I agree that the EC needs to be overhauled, but where do you get 52X?  Assuming you live in Texas, there are 737K citizens per EC vote, whereas in Wyoming that drops to 193K.

Wyoming-ans (?) have 3.8X the voting power of Texans.  I assume the same is true for most highly populous states.

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