Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Judge Roybeanbag 11802]

46 minutes ago, thrillhammer said:

I can't believe all the rightwingers on here that are picking apart and dissecting AOC's words, yet blindly refuse to do the same for Trump.  We have never had a more dishonest president - blatant lies, made up facts, malarkey, hot air, braggadocio.  Just this week spokespeople for his administration said 4,000 terrorists have been arrested at our borders.  DHS has come out and said it's 6.  6 terrorists have been arrested at our borders.  3,694 shy of the number that Trump's administration spouts out in public, to the press, that all his gullible sycophants cling to.  That's just one example out of hundreds in the past two years.  I don't mind you criticizing people or holding them to a certain standard, but apply that standard to everyone, not just those you already predetermined you are against and don't like.  

It's because they so desperately need to both-sides everything in order to internally mitigate the shame of supporting such a degenerate, lying shitbag.  The Terrelle Pryor effect.

[Anastasis 23390]

13 minutes ago, troph said:

I haven’t paid attention to the ages of Amash and Ryan when they made their first political appearances but I do recall both being pre-crowned as princes of the Right with very little scrutiny on the right.

Not sure about the pre-crowned part.  Here is a NYT piece on Amash when he entered office.  And Boehner kicked him off his committee assignment. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/us/politics/15freshman.html

A number of similarities between Amash and AOC. Both have an ethnic immigrant background and were noteworthy firsts in the US congress. Both occupy arguably more extreme positions on their respective ends of the political spectrum. Amash was known for his deployment of social media, although he used the medium primary as a transparency vehicle, explaining each of his votes in the Michigan house, rather than as a clapback forum.

There are young voices from the conservative side and in particular the libertarian appendix of the GOP. I hope that they have more sway over the party's policies after the current iteration is scuttled. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Anastasis

[troph 24560]

Well if women weren’t punished for higher pitched voices we could kill vocal fry. Problem is we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

Men get away with so many imperfections in their mannerisms - even those in the middle with no perceived exaggerated mannerisms.

Fry the fuck out of your voice and wear red lipstick or go butch and don’t wear any at all if you want to, just be good at your job, that’s all we should care about.

[Asithappens 974]

1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

Her political positions are way too outside of convention for commentators to say such things. If she were a man, she'd be a Howard Zinn/Ralph Nader/Noam Chomsky

No way, imo, is she the female equivalent of Zinn or Chomsky.

She's young and exuberant. 

[hpslugga 4042]

28 minutes ago, troph said:

I vehemently disagree. The thing is she’s so unbelievably young for a politician. There is no corollary on the right. Now if she was old like those guys I think her positions could be dismissed as fringe. If she was a young man the conversation would be about how awesome her raw political talent is and how she just needs experience.

Well I didn’t say there was a “corollary on the right,” I was speaking on the hypothetical of her being a man in the party she is with the positions she takes. Those 3 guys I mentioned, plus others that I didn’t (Kucinich being one of them), are what the R’s would be facing were AOC a male. To the extent that they’re ever credited with having raw talent, there always follows a sneeze and that sneeze sounds like “yeahbut,” and that never improves with age. No matter how old Nader or Bernie Sanders got, they’ve always been viewed by corporate media as “fringe,” like you say. AOC is going to be portrayed that way no matter her age, no matter her gender. 

Here’s how you know this shit isn’t about her age or gender: if some hot 20-something who sang the praises of Trickle Down Economics and Peace By Strength was elected as a GOP representative in Texas, they would be lining up in the streets to fuck her and when they weren’t, they’d be talking about how brilliant she was at her young age. Remember, this is the party that allowed a fucking 14-year old to speak at its CPAC convention just a decade ago. That kid was a male, he’s 23 now, and he’s just as stupid as he was then.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

10 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

good on her. but she's got to learn a killer instinct. i know attacking the president's family is not exactly kosher, but it stands up to note that melania is herself an immigrant, and so are her parents. his hypocrisy, i think, is completely fair game. he wants to attack chain migration, he wants to attack legal immigration and limit it in certain ways, but he needs to look no further than whatever bedroom in the white house in which melania sleeps to see his own fucking hypocrisy. it's unfuckingcanny.

You continue to attack immigrants or child of immigrants, like in my case, for hypocrisy because we don’t hold to your worldview of letting every damn illegal into this country. I’m assuming Melania was a legal immigrant to those country like my parents. What’s hypocritical is YOUR attitude towards us. I’m assuming your family has been in our country for generations. You see me, my parents and myself as some sort of monolithic entity and we are hypocritical in YOUR EYES for being against illegal immigration discounting our own experience as LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and how that might color our worldview when it comes to illegals. You’re full of shit and your attitude smacks of a white guilt Anglo guy who himself nor his family has ever had to worry about immigration issues but has a white man’s burden to tell the unwashed like myself how I should truly feel. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[troph 24560]

Anastasis - I recall him being thought of highly in terms of potential but I could be mistaken. Ryan certainly was. He was a political child genius.

[hpslugga 4042]

Just now, Asithappens said:

No way, imo, is she the female equivalent of Zinn or Chomsky.

She's young and exuberant. 

She’s not an exact equivalent, but that’s not the point. The point is she espouses the same positions as they do/did and is similarly criticized for same.

[Anastasis 23390]

Just now, troph said:

Anastasis - I recall him being thought of highly in terms of potential but I could be mistaken. Ryan certainly was. He was a political child genius.

You were probably tuned into your inner libertarian at that point in your life. I remember passing interest as a successor to the Ron Paul wing of the GOP at the time, and that was about it. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Anastasis

[troph 24560]

Well I didn’t say there was a “corollary on the right,” I was speaking on the hypothetical of her being a man in the party she is with the positions she takes. Those 3 guys I mentioned, plus others that I didn’t (Kucinich being one of them), are what the R’s would be facing were AOC a male. To the extent that they’re ever credited with having raw talent, there always follows a sneeze and that sneeze sounds like “yeahbut,” and that never improves with age. No matter how old Nader or Bernie Sanders got, they’ve always been viewed by corporate media as “fringe,” like you say. AOC is going to be portrayed that way no matter her age, no matter her gender. 
Here’s how you know this shit isn’t about her age or gender: if some hot 20-something who sang the praises of Trickle Down Economics and Peace By Strength was elected as a GOP representative in Texas, they would be lining up in the streets to fuck her and when they weren’t, they’d be talking about how brilliant she was at her young age. Remember, this is the party that allowed a fucking 14-year old to speak at its CPAC convention just a decade ago. That kid was a male, he’s 23 now, and he’s just as stupid as he was then.

Why are you talking about fucking a hot woman in a political conversation? You kinda just made my point.

[troph 24560]

You were probably tuned into your inner libertarian at that point in your life. I remember passing interest as a successor to the Ron Paul wing of the GOP at the time, and that was about it. 

Haha. She’s still around, I just don’t trust people with power and consider civil liberties worthless without civil rights for the marginalized. I think they are opposite sides of the same coin in the real and imperfect world we live in.

[hpslugga 4042]

5 minutes ago, troph said:

 

Why are you talking about fucking a hot woman in a political conversation? You kinda just made my point.

 

What point is that you have that runs in contravention to what I said?

heres how it works in practice 

-AOC runs for office and states all these positions she takes, then the morons talk about how she’s young, naive, stupid, ignorant, etc.

-Some right wing doppelgänger of AOC runs for office and takes the exact opposite positions as her, the same morons can’t stop drooling. In other words, suddenly the youth and inexperience and stupidity and all that stuff don’t seem to matter as much. 

Thats all I was saying. The criticisms they’re throwing at her are very poorly disguised rah-rah’s akin to fans at a sporting event. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by hpslugga

[troph 24560]

Cory booker is probably a decent example of a man on the left - older more experienced - but a man of color and he has some progressive chops. He’s no Senator Kaine from Virginia. He’s been on the short list for a while.

[troph 24560]

And the fact that men on the right and left talk about fucking attractive female politicians they don’t even know is exactly part of what I’m talking about. Reverse that and make that political a young male green youth and they are not treated the same. Paul Ryan probably the best example had ideas that were radical and awful - privatize SS?? That’s insane. #childprodigy #futurespeaker

[Anastasis 23390]

In all fairness, men talk about fucking attractive females they don’t know all the time. It’s not really limited to the political sphere.

[troph 24560]

In all fairness, men talk about fucking attractive females they don’t know all the time. It’s not really limited to the political sphere.

Well we were talking about this context. I’m not up for starting a thread about sexism in general.

[Anastasis 23390]

I should also clarify that in most cases that banter doesn't come anywhere near some of the creepy shit that has been posted re: AOC. Looking at you Icono. 

[Brew 3045]

Just now, Anastasis said:

I should also clarify that in most cases that banter doesn't come anywhere near some of the creepy shit that has been posted re: AOC. Looking at you Icono. 

It is all creepy, Icono just took it to the rapey level.

[The People’s Elbow 707]

23 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

You continue to attack immigrants or child of immigrants, like in my case, for hypocrisy because we don’t hold to your worldview of letting every damn illegal into this country. 

Oh look: a liar lying. Color me shocked. 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I should also clarify that in most cases that banter doesn't come anywhere near some of the creepy shit that has been posted re: AOC. Looking at you Icono. 

She is smart, attractive and has a good personality. I want to fuck her. I’m a man. What’s creepy about that.

[Royalfan5 2348]

2 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

She is smart, attractive and has a good personality. I want to fuck her. I’m a man. What’s creepy about that.

The fact that you can't shut the fuck up about it. 

[troph 24560]

She is smart, attractive and has a good personality. I want to fuck her. I’m a man. What’s creepy about that.

The fact that you don’t know her and she doesn’t even know you exist. Most of these guys are actually kidding, it’s still an issue and when we do it on our side it’s an issue too it just happens so much less. #betoisdreamy #tialeoneinmadamsecretaryhello

But you? Everyone believes you absolutely do want to fuck her. That’s gross.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

1 minute ago, troph said:

The fact that you don’t know her and she doesn’t even know you exist. Most of these guys are actually kidding, it’s still an issue and when we do it on our side it’s an issue too it just happens so much less. #betoisdreamy #tialeoneinmadamsecretaryhello

But you? Everyone believes you absolutely do want to fuck her. That’s gross.

What I’m saying is no different than what others say on other threads

[The People’s Elbow 707]

1 minute ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

What I’m saying is no different than what others say on other threads

Oh look: a liar lying. Color me shocked. 

[safe sex 11676]

I feel sorry for any woman (anyone of any gender, to be honest, but women specifically) in whom's personal orbit Iconoclast exists. Thank god he is only text on a screen to me; it could be so much worse. 

[troph 24560]

What I’m saying is no different than what others say on other threads

Well if you asked all of us ladies which of you male posters we would roll our eyes at in frustration and which of you we would be scared of you would be in the latter category and most of the others would be in the former. That suggests you are doing it differently. I honestly hope you check yourself in that Christian mirror bro.

[GSU&UT 1798]

36 minutes ago, troph said:

Cory booker is probably a decent example of a man on the left - older more experienced - but a man of color and he has some progressive chops. He’s no Senator Kaine from Virginia. He’s been on the short list for a while.

Booker had to be pushed by the AOCs and Bernies to stop taking big pharma money, he and even Kamala aren't the first two that come to mind when I think of a real progressive, AOC on the other hand is.

[safe sex 11676]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

 

Well if you asked all of us ladies which of you male posters we would roll our eyes at in frustration and which of you we would be scared of you would be in the latter category and most of the others would be in the former. That suggests you are doing it differently. I honestly hope you check yourself in that Christian mirror bro.

 

I wouldn't be alone in a room with him. Ever. 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

Just now, troph said:

 

Well if you asked all of us ladies which of you male posters we would roll our eyes at in frustration and which of you we would be scared of you would be in the latter category and most of the others would be in the former. That suggests you are doing it differently. I honestly hope you check yourself in that Christian mirror bro.

 

Right because who I am in real life and how I treat ladies in the real world has to match an Internet persona. It doesn’t and I’m done here

[GSU&UT 1798]

Also troph, there is an absolute sexist angle here clearly, but HP's point isn't without merit. Did you miss this where the self-proclaimed DSA Virginia House member Lee Carter had his OWN party member put this shit up when he was speaking? He was rightfully dragged through the mud, but this is what even a ton of people in the DNC think about DSA members.

[troph 24560]

Booker had to be pushed by the AOCs and Bernies to stop taking big pharma money, he and even Kamala aren't the first two that come to mind when I think of a real progressive, AOC on the other hand is.

I agree he’s not as far left.

[troph 24560]

Also troph, there is an absolute sexist angle here clearly, but HP's point isn't without merit. Did you miss this where the self-proclaimed DSA Virginia House member Lee Carter had his OWN party member put this shit up when he was speaking? He was rightfully dragged through the mud, but this is what even a ton of people in the DNC think about DSA members.

It’s hard to isolate issues I agree. Far left and far right positions can easily be dismissed and ridiculed sometimes with less rigor than than the original extreme position taken. And at times the criticisms are valid too. I agree wholeheartedly.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

In all fairness, men talk about fucking attractive females they don’t know all the time. It’s not really limited to the political sphere.

Whew............ that's a relief.  

I thought I was the only one.

[bad_teammate 13132]

Cookie is as reliable as the sunrise with his faux-woke concern trolling.

35 minutes ago, troph said:

It’s hard to isolate issues I agree.

I would be interested to see a similar reaction, among Republicans, to a fellow Republican like what happened to Lee Carter.

Here's what Carter was talking about when his own side did that...

-----------------------------------------------

Delegate Carter also voted against the House version of the bill. He said Monday that his concerns had not gone away with SB 883, and called it a “very deeply flawed mechanism” that slashes the tax code and leaves Virginians “fighting over scraps and handouts from billionaires, rather than trying to build the economy from the ground up that will actually help the people that are already here.”

“We’ve done this a lot in Northern Virginia, and it’s made Northern Virginia a lot richer on paper, but it hasn’t made the people of Northern Virginia richer, it’s changed the people in Northern Virginia and I’m a transplant so I’m guilty of it, but what we have seen is as these economic development partnerships pumped more and more money into Northern Virginia to get more and more business there, we’ve seen people who grew up in Alexandria, Arlington and had to move out to Fairfax because they couldn’t afford it. Then they couldn’t afford Fairfax, they had to move out to Manassas – now they can’t afford Manassas and they’ve moved out to Fauquier and Stafford and they are driving and hour and a half each way…to go to a job that pays $9 an hour,” Carter said.

“In my district we’ve got entire low-income neighborhoods where we are having to fight the bulldozers because we’ve got out of state money that is trying to come in and buy up property people are living on right now and kicking them out,” he continued.

Right about this moment, Keam readied the image he found of a hammer and sickle, and briefly flashed it behind Carter’s head as the delegate continued to speak against the bill.

“And, you know, it may make the locality look richer on paper, it will look like you’ve done something about poverty, but at the end of the day, if this does what has happened in Northern Virginia, what will happen in the South West (Virginia) and Southside and the Eastern shore and I think Petersburg is particularly susceptible to this, what will happen is, you won’t have any poor people in those localities...but it won’t be because you’ve helped the poor people in those localities, it’s because you’ve moved them.”

“I thank the patron for trying to do something about poverty, it’s desperately overdue, but this is not the mechanism to do it,” he finished.

-------------------------------------------------

The reality is that the 2018 Democratic mainstream is 1980s-era Republican and the 2018 Republican mainstream is outright fascist. There is no far-right equivalent because that's just the Republican mainstream now.

Edited January 9, 2019 by bad_teammate

[ADHD 28]

It's gonna suck when she starts telling lies for money. That's the death of America. Free speech is the foremost right for a reason. The 2nd Amendment is the death blow. It's ostensibly a "STFU, mister". In between those two things .. that's our only "shot" at life.

She's alive and I like that.

 

[hayden_horn 11360]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

You continue to attack immigrants or child of immigrants, like in my case, for hypocrisy because we don’t hold to your worldview of letting every damn illegal into this country. I’m assuming Melania was a legal immigrant to those country like my parents. What’s hypocritical is YOUR attitude towards us. I’m assuming your family has been in our country for generations. You see me, my parents and myself as some sort of monolithic entity and we are hypocritical in YOUR EYES for being against illegal immigration discounting our own experience as LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and how that might color our worldview when it comes to illegals. You’re full of shit and your attitude smacks of a white guilt Anglo guy who himself nor his family has ever had to worry about immigration issues but has a white man’s burden to tell the unwashed like myself how I should truly feel. 

while i used the word "attack," i think i should have used a different word. but donald is a hypocrite. make no mistake. and so are you.

to clarify something, i've asked the question "what happens if we just let them in?" multiple times. nobody has answered it in good faith, to date. what happens if we allow these asylum seekers asylum? i would predict your life would change 0.0%. you will keep on cloaking yourself in christianity, hypocritically castigating people for being from "shithole countries" (actual quote for you), and you would continue making creepy sexual statements about AOC, because you seek to demean her by sexually objectifying her, because she terrifies you in reality. 

it all goes back to your deep insecurity, which led you to addiction, and which has subsequently led you to staunch republicanism, because that currently is the party of deep insecurity, projecting their biggest fears onto their enemies, and accusing people of crimes they've committed.

 

[pyrohornIII 4805]

I don't see her driven by money, but by ideals.  While she might have a little hero in her, I think her decision to run and everything since that has been to make a difference, to make the world better for everyone.  She has passion and enthusiasm.  For the most part she is pretty succinct in what she has to say, though sometimes her energy, her thoughts outrace her mouth and the words don't come out right.  I have the opposite problem, because i ramble some when i talk, searching for the right word, term or analogy. 

[ADHD 28]

And btw, last night we passed the deadline for paychecks to go out this week, no matter what. Meaning the earliest they can be cut and distrubuted is next Friday, based on regular pay guidelines.

So the phantom individual in her tweet was absolutely correct. Kudos to AOC for knowing such esoterica to concoct her "Whopper".

And moreover the subtext of her fiction was lie about poverty and sacrifice. As is all her lies which denigrate the rich and powerful. These are lies which will eventually cost her money.

Unless she turns out to be Stalin. And thus, the right falls deeply in love with guns to prohibit such a thing.

Meanwhile the President of The United States is sending internal polling data to former agents of the Soviet Union, exclaiming no puppet, no puppet

It's A OK though, because he's doing it for money.

 

[UncleCharlie 334]

That poor girl has so many 70 year old Republican senators trying to slide into her DM's....

[Cajun 11675]

16 hours ago, The People’s Elbow said:

57 states!!!!

Edited January 9, 2019 by Cajun

[Js1 85085]

4 hours ago, UncleCharlie said:

That poor girl has so many 70 year old Republican senators trying to slide into her DM's....

They don't know what that means

[NBMisha 224]

9 hours ago, troph said:

That’s a bias though.  Whether it’s gender based is only something an experiment could prove out. Most claim they have no bias but then when subjected to a controlled experiment it shows.

I have adhd and it’s not mild, my brain races, I used to finish college and law school exams first by as much as half an hour and get the high A.  I get bored and distracted with slow talkers, I used to think they weren’t very smart, I used to ascribe speed with intelligence, I don’t much anymore though I still prefer fast talkers.  And in my own life, I speed up with the more confidence I have in the subject matter.  

it may not be a preference for you, but I would challenge you to examine the assumptions, they are likely heuristics that are often and maybe most times useful but I suspect not 100% accurate. 

I don't think we disagree.

In my post I examined my assumptions, as a product of work experience, and referred to what I was looking for as simply preferences, another word for bias.  Having said that, if you had posted that you saw slow talking folk as stupid I probably would have responded defensively.  Its all part of our fallible natures.

Back to the congressperson in question, I think she's made a good start, has attracted all kinds of biased and mysoginistic responses, has some good ideas, and could do well with learning, experience, and enhanced communications skills.  Her political instincts appear high end.  No comment on the blue dress.

 

 

[Cajun 11675]

I'm curious, when Tapper and Cooper each called her out in person for not knowing her facts, numbers, etc, were they being biased and mysoginistic?  

What do you think their agenda was?

White guys?

Edited January 10, 2019 by Cajun

[bolverk 29394]

19 minutes ago, Cajun said:

I'm curious, when Tapper and Cooper each called her out in person for not knowing her facts, numbers, etc, were they being biased and mysoginistic?  

What do you think their agenda was?

White guys?

I can't speak to the Tapper interview, because I didn't see it. As for Cooper, I think he does what most television journalists do, which is to take a more negative and aggressive approach when questioning progressive politicians. You see it all the time, especially on the broadcast channels. I think they do this because of the constant complaints from the right about the "liberal media." In other words, they tend to overcompensate.

Question:

Why don't you ever participate in the Trump thread if you're so concerned about fact-checking erroneous claims made by a neophyte politician?

[The People’s Elbow 707]

Cajun is a Gary Johnson voter simply asking questions. 

[mdmost 42827]

His hard on for her is astounding. Almost as bad as Icono's. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

46 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I can't speak to the Tapper interview, because I didn't see it. As for Cooper, I think he does what most television journalists do, which is to take a more negative and aggressive approach when questioning progressive politicians.

If Tapper and Cooper posted here, they'd be on the Cookie/Anastasis BOTH SIDES squad.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

The worst of the worst offender is Chuck Todd.

Total POS

[Thetexashammer 1062]

2 hours ago, Cajun said:

I'm curious, when Tapper and Cooper each called her out in person for not knowing her facts, numbers, etc, were they being biased and mysoginistic?  

What do you think their agenda was?

White guys?

Their agenda was that they simply wondered if she had any idea how to pay for her $3 trillion program. Maybe they just wondered where their invitation to her inauguration was. Or maybe they were curious about her level of knowledge of the tens of millions who were killed by Socialism. Those rat bastards!!!??!?!!?!?

She reminds me of a scene from As Good As It Gets. 

 

[Cajun 11675]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

I can't speak to the Tapper interview, because I didn't see it. As for Cooper, I think he does what most television journalists do, which is to take a more negative and aggressive approach when questioning progressive politicians. You see it all the time, especially on the broadcast channels. I think they do this because of the constant complaints from the right about the "liberal media." In other words, they tend to overcompensate.

Question:

Why don't you ever participate in the Trump thread if you're so concerned about fact-checking erroneous claims made by a neophyte politician?

Trump is a known commodity in the erroneous claim department.  I don't go around trumpeting his greatness and fawn all over his every word or stance.  AOC, on the other hand, within the confines of this site, gets spun positively no matter what dumb shit she says.  The rationalizations in her favor rival those of the Trump sycophants on the other side of the coin.

The Tapper and Cooper interviews weren't about them being harder and overcompensating.  She was asked to back up some wild claims and proposals and literally babbled in circles.  Each interviewer gave her a very wide berth trying to help her help herself in the crediblity department and she fell flat on her face both times.  Very awkward stuff.  

Link me to a thread Surly where Trump is being gushed over and given ridiculous levels of benefit of the doubt by the vast majority of posters giving the AOC treatment like on this thread and I'll have at 'em.  

Promise.