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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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5 minutes ago, Lobo said:

https://ocasio2018.com/issues

She literally says "policy of student debt cancellation."  What else am I supposed to take away from that except that she proposes a cancellation of all student debt?  

We should probably quit dealing in facts.     

Holy jesus dude, I'm stating where the conversation is being pushed towards not what her policy is, i.e. not all Democratic candidates are for cancelling all student debt but many of them now are okay saying they want to look at debt assistance for students. 

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henrygandorf
henrygandorf

oh, and to add, let's offer up a 'comparable' analogy reversal and see how it fits.  who's the aoc of the right?  jim jordan?  matt gaetz? this is basically like if there was a huge earthquake he

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

some people see 99% and consider that absolutism.  i am one of those people. this is not your wife grabbing your cell phone that you left in the other room.  this is not a quick favor.  this is a

RomaVicta
RomaVicta

Yes, of course. She is the only woman or woman of color the left right (edit) focuses their ire on. There are no other examples. Great point. It's really all intellectual and rational. And usually ver

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13193

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

https://ocasio2018.com/issues

She literally says "policy of student debt cancellation."  What else am I supposed to take away from that except that she proposes a cancellation of all student debt?  

We should probably quit dealing in facts.     

I asked if it was a policy. I didn't say it wasn't. No idea why you're being so pissy and defensive when asked an honest question.

So here's what it says...

In tandem with making public colleges tuition-free, Alexandria supports a one-time policy of student debt cancellation, in which the federal government cancels the loans it holds directly and buys back the financing of privately owned loans on behalf of borrowers to liberate generations of Americans trapped in student loan debt and holding back from participating in the greater US economy.

A bold policy proposal, for sure, but not sure why it's absurd. If the goal is to transition to a fully-publicly-funded higher education system then cancellation of previous debt would be a necessary leveler.

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Chooky

Chooky 13307

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18 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'm sorry, exactly what has she accomplished ?  She's been elected, and from what I hear her say so far, she really doesn't have a firm grasp on how the world works.  She has ideals and dreams right now, that's it.

It's an outrage.  She was elected to the 14th Congressional District where she'll have basically zero individual impact on anything ever and she has the audacity to act like she knows how things work and has knowledge about government machinery like the sitting president.  How could someone so bereft of knowledge be elected to a position of power?  How many parents of Korean War veterans has she consoled?  It's obvious she isn't a total genius like all of the other people who have ever been elected to the U.S. House of Representatives.  All the other ones are smart.  All of them.  Except her.  

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Js1

Js1 85306

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Posted
31 minutes ago, Chooky said:

The orange complexion with little white eyes.  The tiny butthole mouth.  The dainty baby hands.  The ass that looks like two wooden barrels strapped together.  The statuesque Slovenian whore wife.  The elaborate hairdo that defies all geometry to hide another disastrous shortcoming.  The neck that waddles like a tall stack of fried eggs.  Transfers all of my personal failures in life to people with dark skin.  Displayed his business genius by totally owning Gene Simmons and Gary Busey and Dennis Rodman in a fake boardroom on a stupid television show made for dumbasses.  Totally owned another group of hapless morons with a fraudulent college and got busted for it.  Drives a golf cart on the greens like a gentleman.  Mocked a prisoner of war.  Sexual assault.  Constantly refused to pay his debts to people in an honest exchange of services.  Fucked a pornstar who has freakish basketball sized tits.  Multiple divorces.  Constantly lies for no reason.  Loves Jesus.   

This is....

Just...

Wow.

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26438

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14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

A bold policy proposal, for sure, but not sure why it's absurd. If the goal is to transition to a fully-publicly-funded higher education system then cancellation of previous debt would be a necessary leveler.

How far back do we go to make it "level"? Just those who have debt? 

What about home loans that helped the housing market grow? Auto loans that helped the auto market grow?

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29349

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32 minutes ago, thrillhammer said:

it's not as bad as all that, or as bad as the rightwingers want, but certainly there are factions in the party, just like there are in the gop.  aoc needs to earn her chops, she is swinging for the fences way too quick. i'm on the fence about it.  i like her youth and vigor and enthusiasm, so side with her in that sense, that we need to shake things up and rethink positions.  but i side with the establishment in the sense that she doesn't know how washinton works, and in a lot of ways that she doesn't know or appreciate, works well. there are policies and procedures and decorum and some of those are hogwash but some are not.  

She interned in Ted Kennedy's office. She may not have the expertise of Mitch McConnell, but she knows how Washington works.

The problem with all of the quiet Dems who just get in and try to play the game is that their silence lets the Republicans dominate the message the American people hear from Washington. The Dems don't need every one of their representatives, certainly not a first-term one, to be experts at drafting complex policy legislation. But they need SOMEONE to effectively message liberal priorities, and she's the only one that has been able to do it. There are a few others that try (Ted Lieu and Brian Schatz are good), but for the most part nobody hears them because the media doesn't magnify their statements (and the right doesn't freak out in response to everything they say).

If the Dems want to pass some sort of environmental reform bill to help combat climate change (or anything else), step one isn't drafting the perfect piece of legislation, step one is convincing a sufficient number of American voters that it's important and achievable. She's pretty good so far at step one. She doesn't have to be an expert at steps two and three. She's not the problem with the Democratic party. The problem with the Democratic party is the fucking geriatrics who are happy to continue sacrificing the health, well-being, and potential of normal Americans for the continued prosperity of a few entrenched industries because they're too afraid to rock the boat.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
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32 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

A bold policy proposal, for sure, but not sure why it's absurd. If the goal is to transition to a fully-publicly-funded higher education system then cancellation of previous debt would be a necessary leveler.

Never once have I ever hinted that I thought the policy "absurd."  Not even close. 

The funding mechanisms for higher education are completely out of whack.  I spend a good chunk of my week on that topic, happy to engage in a conversation to that effect.  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18853

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54 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'm sorry, exactly what has she accomplished ?  She's been elected, and from what I hear her say so far, she really doesn't have a firm grasp on how the world works.  She has ideals and dreams right now, that's it.

What has she said that leads you to believe she doesn't have a firm grasp on how the world works?

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
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27 minutes ago, Chooky said:

It's an outrage.  She was elected to the 14th Congressional District where she'll have basically zero individual impact on anything ever and she has the audacity to act like she knows how things work and has knowledge about government machinery like the sitting president.  How could someone so bereft of knowledge be elected to a position of power?  How many parents of Korean War veterans has she consoled?  It's obvious she isn't a total genius like all of the other people who have ever been elected to the U.S. House of Representatives.  All the other ones are smart.  All of them.  Except her.  

You have zero grasp of reading comprehension. My comment was pretty straight forward. She has accomplished nothing other than getting elected. You can play your sarcastic games all you want, the fact is Hugos statement was way off base, and your comment did nothing to help his case or hurt mine.

That's called impotency.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13193

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19 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

How far back do we go to make it "level"? Just those who have debt?

I don't know what you mean by "far back". Like, in the past?

Who else would need student debt cancellation except those with student debt?

Quote

What about home loans that helped the housing market grow? Auto loans that helped the auto market grow?

What do home and auto loans have to do with this? What are you talking about?

Hello?

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elfenix

elfenix 34229

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Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

You have zero grasp of reading comprehension. My comment was pretty straight forward. She has accomplished nothing other than getting elected. You can play your sarcastic games all you want, the fact is Hugos statement was way off base, and your comment did nothing to help his case or hurt mine.

That's called impotency.

did you miss GSU's post at the very top of this page?  she's moving the conversation. most dems don't do that. john cornyn was tweeting out articles in favor of a carbon tax.  you don't get there without AOC making GND a big deal. 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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8 minutes ago, elfenix said:

did you miss GSU's post at the very top of this page?  she's moving the conversation. most dems don't do that. john cornyn was tweeting out articles in favor of a carbon tax.  you don't get there without AOC making GND a big deal. 

Yes I did I guess.  Hugo making the comment she's done more than 99% of Congress is just empty talk. Of course she's the shiny new toy, she says nice that people love to hear, free stuff, free stuff, free stuff (PRO TIP: Bernie did the same thing in 2016).  

Let's see what she actually does when she's in office.  Making her out to be anything more than a freshman member of Congress is silly.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18853

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4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yes I did I guess.  Hugo making the comment she's done more than 99% of Congress is just empty talk. Of course she's the shiny new toy, she says nice that people love to hear, free stuff, free stuff, free stuff (PRO TIP: Bernie did the same thing in 2016).  

Let's see what she actually does when she's in office.  Making her out to be anything more than a freshman member of Congress is silly.

If anything she's a fundraising machine. That's half of their job.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yes I did I guess.  Hugo making the comment she's done more than 99% of Congress is just empty talk. Of course she's the shiny new toy, she says nice that people love to hear, free stuff, free stuff, free stuff (PRO TIP: Bernie did the same thing in 2016).  

Let's see what she actually does when she's in office.  Making her out to be anything more than a freshman member of Congress is silly.

Remember the Parkland kids that got Florida to change their gun laws within a month?  They didn't do that by getting elected or getting shot up.  They did it by grabbing the media by the balls and bringing their lawmakers to their knees. 

That is real political power. 

AOC is wielding that type of power. 

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F250

F250 28766

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54 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

She interned in Ted Kennedy's office. She may not have the expertise of Mitch McConnell, but she knows how Washington works.

Didn't Kennedy die when she was an 18 year old. How much experience could she have possibly gained?

 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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50 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Remember the Parkland kids that got Florida to change their gun laws within a month?  They didn't do that by getting elected or getting shot up.  They did it by grabbing the media by the balls and bringing their lawmakers to their knees. 

That is real political power. 

AOC is wielding that type of power. 

No, no she's not. This isn't Parkland. She hasn't done anything yet, please stop making her out to be more than she is. If she actually does affect change then you can crow about it, till then just keep on the look out for those pesky Russians.  

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29349

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Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

No, no she's not. This isn't Parkland. She hasn't done anything yet, please stop making her out to be more than she is. If she actually does affect change then you can crow about it, till then just keep on the look out for those pesky Russians.  

Effect.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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Posted
Just now, wildcat09 said:

This is just meaningless gibberish. Looks like seven was right.

7 can't even wipe his own ass.  Her whole schtick so far has been big expensive programs, debt forgiveness etc.

She wants to create them by cutting the military budget fine, do it or show how you plan to do it. So far all she's said is she wants to give everyone a car.  She's idealistic and naive.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

No, no she's not. This isn't Parkland. She hasn't done anything yet, please stop making her out to be more than she is. If she actually does affect change then you can crow about it, till then just keep on the look out for those pesky Russians.  

“Trump hasn’t done anything yet, he hasn’t even won an election.  Please stop making him out to be more than he is.”

Onboard hot take circa 2015

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45897

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Posted
2 hours ago, thrillhammer said:

it's not as bad as all that, or as bad as the rightwingers want, but certainly there are factions in the party, just like there are in the gop.  aoc needs to earn her chops, she is swinging for the fences way too quick. i'm on the fence about it.  i like her youth and vigor and enthusiasm, so side with her in that sense, that we need to shake things up and rethink positions.  but i side with the establishment in the sense that she doesn't know how washinton works, and in a lot of ways that she doesn't know or appreciate, works well. there are policies and procedures and decorum and some of those are hogwash but some are not.  

What makes you think you know how Washington works any more than she does?  Serious question.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18853

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

7 can't even wipe his own ass.  Her whole schtick so far has been big expensive programs, debt forgiveness etc.

She wants to create them by cutting the military budget fine, do it or show how you plan to do it. So far all she's said is she wants to give everyone a car.  She's idealistic and naive.

It's clearly working.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29349

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

7 can't even wipe his own ass.  Her whole schtick so far has been big expensive programs, debt forgiveness etc.

She wants to create them by cutting the military budget fine, do it or show how you plan to do it. So far all she's said is she wants to give everyone a car.  She's idealistic and naive.

...do you know what "bully pulpit" means?

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45897

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Posted
2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump was elected because he was something different.  It's really that simple. 

People grew tired of the same old bullshit and empty promises leading to nothing of value in their lives so they went with new bullshit.  I don't think they expected Trump to deliver for them.  They expected Trump to cripple the system that's been fucking them over. 

It's pretty much the ideological subversion playbook.  The population was demoralized and looking for a savior.  Trump filled that need.  

 

Man, you couldn't be more wrong.  First, they absolutely expected Trump to deliver.  These are the same people who are shocked when the carny guesses their weight to within 5 pounds or when they can't hit the coke bottle from 15 feet with a BB gun.  They are easily fooled.

But more importantly, Trump was elected because he seemingly legitimized all of the ugliness that they had been hiding for decades.  Up until Trump, it was just not productive to reveal one's inner racist, misogynous self.  It was not productive to rant against the gays, except in private company.  But Trump made all of that cool, and here we are.

I honestly don't know how someone as correctly passionate as you gets this shit wrong so often.  You simply cannot get out of your own way.  I'm chagrined that you might be on the front lines "speaking for" the rest of us, simply because you have more energy, because you fuck this up all the time.  You're just wrong.  Wake up.

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thrillhammer

thrillhammer 683

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Posted
6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

What makes you think you know how Washington works any more than she does?  Serious question.

who said i did?  what i think is that pelosi, schumer, lieberman, maloney, hoyer, meng, schrader, clark, velazquez know how washington works more than she does.  

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13580

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Ha ha Bully pulpit ?  Give away free stuff give away free stuff. That's not a bully pulpit that's faustian.

You're illustratiing my point by posting yet again on a 70 + page AOC thread. Whether or not you agree with Trump's Wall or AOC's policies, their causes are pushed to the forefront. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Man, you couldn't be more wrong.  First, they absolutely expected Trump to deliver.  These are the same people who are shocked when the carny guesses their weight to within 5 pounds or when they can't hit the coke bottle from 15 feet with a BB gun.  They are easily fooled.

But more importantly, Trump was elected because he seemingly legitimized all of the ugliness that they had been hiding for decades.  Up until Trump, it was just not productive to reveal one's inner racist, misogynous self.  It was not productive to rant against the gays, except in private company.  But Trump made all of that cool, and here we are.

I honestly don't know how someone as correctly passionate as you gets this shit wrong so often.  You simply cannot get out of your own way.  I'm chagrined that you might be on the front lines "speaking for" the rest of us, simply because you have more energy, because you fuck this up all the time.  You're just wrong.  Wake up.

Not sure why you feel the need bash me, it was just an opinion.  

After 30 years of deciding between two presidential candidates that had more ideological overlap than differences, the common folk Republicans were excited to see something new and different.  Trump resonated that way. 

Bush

Bush

Dole

Bush

Bush

McCain

Romney 

These have been the presidential choices for Republicans over the past 30 years.  They fucking suck.  I live in Republican Trump country and Trump’s racism and ideology had nothing to do with why they supported him.  

One guy told me if Trump didn’t win, he would leave the Republican Party.

They felt like they had no control over their own political destiny with the establishment Republicans and they just watched the democrats have their own “revolutionary” candidate in Obama.  They wanted some of that, something different and disruptive. 

Not fucking Jeb Bush.

 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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