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Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 6:10 PM, Vertigo said:

All of these guys are stupidly assuming that Banks falls below this magical threshold of being 6'4, and they think he has short arms for some reason. He has been officially measured and is confirmed to be 6'4 and he will have a better wingspan than most think. Banks will be the first OT off the board. 

These draft guys pick a favorite trope for the season and just beat the shit out of it until everyone thinks it is factual. Mel Kiper is still felating Will Levis as this criminally undervalued quarterback, even though he never threw for more than 2500 yards in a season. Chris Simms was fucking the chicken that was Zack Wilson as the best QB in the draft. On and on it goes with no repercussions to their abject stupidity.  

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Daniel Jeremiah almost certainly has measureables for all of the major program players from when he visits teams in the spring/summer, and Brugler probably has most of them too

It's not just draft twitter guys who are thinking this. Some teams will have positional measureables thresholds that they won't go below for certain picks

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Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 5:30 PM, Dbeasy said:

3 OT’s going before Banks is crazy to me. He’s probably the best OL in Texas history. I envision him going between 8-12 in the first round. The Cowboys would be nuts to pass on him and pick Burton instead. That would really piss me off. Of course they believe they have their two OT’s. I believe Guyton will fail to improve. 

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I think he goes higher but if a team views him as a guard and wants a tackle then they'll pass on him. It's stupid but it is what it is.

  On 1/15/2025 at 5:17 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

3 QB's in the first 2 rounds if I counted that right, Milroe being third QB. I will bet the over on that as QB's tend to get overdrafted. Could see Quinn with a good offseason going in the first two rounds (I wouldn't take him at all and I like Quinn). I also would have zero part of taking Milroe, that seems dumb.  Other than Quinn I can't think of any other horns (maybe Bond if he runs a smoking 40 time) that I think have much of a chance of going in the first 2 rounds.  

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I said this on the Quinn thread, but I think he gets healthier and, as a result, really impresses at the combine/pro day. IMHO, he goes higher than people expect. I'm also curious to see how NFL teams view Cam Ward - he throws sidearm as much as Quinn. 

 

Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 6:43 PM, The Dog said:

I think he goes higher but if a team views him as a guard and wants a tackle then they'll pass on him. It's stupid but it is what it is.

I said this on the Quinn thread, but I think he gets healthier and, as a result, really impresses at the combine/pro day. IMHO, he goes higher than people expect. I'm also curious to see how NFL teams view Cam Ward - he throws sidearm as much as Quinn. 

 

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I'm baking the healthy and looking awesome throwing against air. I wouldn't personally draft him b/c I don't think he can ever stay healthy over a full nfl season (amongst some other issues) but yeah- I think his pro days and combine go really well for him, QB's get overdrafted, Milroe at 3rd best in the draft is absurd etc etc so that would militate toward top 2 rounds for Quinn when all is said and done.  If he's early 2nd round I'd not be surprised to see a team trade up to end of the first to get the 5th year in case he's a hit.  NFL teams are desperate for good QB's and if I didn't have one I'd draft one every single year high until I did have one.  That seems to be the new trend in some places.  Who knows. 

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Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 7:13 PM, Fud said:

He's very likely going #1 overall 

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Yeah I've seen that in recent mocks but will he stay there? I'm not sure he's good enough to be 1/1. 

 

  On 1/15/2025 at 7:37 PM, The_highest_of_fives said:

Saw a couple of mocks that had QE going to Steelers in either first or second round. 

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Yeah looking at the draft order it would make sense - but he'd have to play right away unless they re-sign Russ or someone else for a year or two.

Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 7:41 PM, The Dog said:

Yeah I've seen that in recent mocks but will he stay there? I'm not sure he's good enough to be 1/1. 

 

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I think so. He's a better prospect than Shedeur, and a QB is going #1 considering the #1 pick needs a QB, and there's three other teams in the top six who could draft one and might trade up for him if Tennessee for whatever reason doesn't want to draft a QB at 1.1

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Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 7:45 PM, Fud said:

I think so. He's a better prospect than Shedeur, and a QB is going #1 considering the #1 pick needs a QB, and there's three other teams in the top six who could draft one and might trade up for him if Tennessee for whatever reason doesn't want to draft a QB at 1.1

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I think I'd rather have Quinn at 33 (but I'd trade up to 32) plus the draft capital I got from trading down with whoever than just take Ward #1.  That doesn't seem like a 1.1 guy to me, seems like a force.  And I say that as a guy who wouldn't have Quinn on my draft board, probably, such is my stay away factor from Ward at 1.1.

Posted

Ewers still has terrible pocket presence.  At this point you have to think that's it not fixable.  He just not capable of comfortably floating around the pocket.  It will be interesting to see how teams talk themselves around that.

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Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 8:17 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

I think I'd rather have Quinn at 33 (but I'd trade up to 32) plus the draft capital I got from trading down with whoever than just take Ward #1.  That doesn't seem like a 1.1 guy to me, seems like a force.  And I say that as a guy who wouldn't have Quinn on my draft board, probably, such is my stay away factor from Ward at 1.1.

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If I must draft a QB to start this year (because ownership demands it), I'd just take Ward. If I don't have to take a QB necessarily this year, I'd just punt for a year and hope to pick up more picks and still take Carter/Hunter 

I'm definitely not passing on Ward to trade back and then take Quinn later 

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Posted (edited)
  On 1/15/2025 at 8:27 PM, Fud said:

If I must draft a QB to start this year (because ownership demands it), I'd just take Ward. If I don't have to take a QB necessarily this year, I'd just punt for a year and hope to pick up more picks and still take Carter/Hunter 

I'm definitely not passing on Ward to trade back and then take Quinn later 

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You probably have to take Ward. I would certainly would not take Milroe or Ewers until the 3rd or later. Not going to go through every player, but they both were turnover machines this year with 17 a piece and probably near the top nationally (Quinn turnover/29.5 touches and Milroe turnover/28.6 touches). That doesnt bode well for the NFL.

Edited by Codaxx
Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 8:27 PM, Fud said:

If I must draft a QB to start this year (because ownership demands it), I'd just take Ward. If I don't have to take a QB necessarily this year, I'd just punt for a year and hope to pick up more picks and still take Carter/Hunter 

I'm definitely not passing on Ward to trade back and then take Quinn later 

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It's not about Quinn in that scenario I'm just saying I wouldn't take any of these guys and if I absolutely had to take a QB I'd trade down from 1-3 or 4 and pick up draft capital to have me ready to take Sanders, then I'd trade down again to pick up more capital to someone who wanted him and if an owner put a gun to my head I'd rather have the 3rd best guy at the ass end of the 1st round with all the extra picks from the 2 trade downs than anyone else. I think Quinn is probably the 3rd QB gone, but I wouldn't take him unless I was forced to. I just HATE this QB draft all the way around.  

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Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 9:10 PM, Codaxx said:

You probably have to take Ward. I would certainly would not take Milroe or Ewers until the 3rd or later. Not going to go through every player, but they both were turnover machines this year with 17 a piece (Quinn turnover/29.5 touches and Milroe turnover/28.6 touches). That doesnt bode well for the NFL.

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I never understood the Milroe talk and his performances against OU and Michigan should bring everyone down to earth.

Ewers - even with his issues - is a much better prospect.

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Posted

His tape is gonna be ugly.  He has a tipped ball problem that is only going to be worse in the NFL and throws a terrible deep ball in addition to really poor pocket presence.  He will definitely look good at the pro day because that's where he excels.  I think his issues are so clear though that teams aren't going to be in a hurry to take him early.

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Posted (edited)
  On 1/15/2025 at 9:18 PM, The Dog said:

I never understood the Milroe talk and his performances against OU and Michigan should bring everyone down to earth.

Ewers - even with his issues - is a much better prospect.

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People see that athleticism and deep ball. Someone usually falls in love with that and thinks they can clean up their decision making.  I hope the same thing happens for Quinn. Some team sees his workout and falls in love with the raw tools and thinks they clean up his issues.

Edited by Codaxx
Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 9:19 PM, kevwun said:

His tape is gonna be ugly.  He has a tipped ball problem that is only going to be worse in the NFL and throws a terrible deep ball in addition to really poor pocket presence.  He will definitely look good at the pro day because that's where he excels.  I think his issues are so clear though that teams aren't going to be in a hurry to take him early.

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All this is true.  Teams draft QB's higher than they should b/c it's so important to success in the nfl and this year is a real tallest midget competition at QB.

Posted (edited)

He definitely needs to sit somewhere for a couple of years.  If he ends up playing right away, it's going to go poorly.

Edited by kevwun
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Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 8:20 PM, kevwun said:

Ewers still has terrible pocket presence.  At this point you have to think that's it not fixable.  He just not capable of comfortably floating around the pocket.  It will be interesting to see how teams talk themselves around that.

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If I am an NFL GM, I have a hard rule of no higher than a 3rd round pick on him. Any higher is too much potential wasted draft capital.

  On 1/15/2025 at 9:18 PM, The Dog said:

I never understood the Milroe talk and his performances against OU and Michigan should bring everyone down to earth.

Ewers - even with his issues - is a much better prospect.

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I'm also not a Milroe believer, but then I wasn't a Hurts believer at Bama either. I wouldn't spend higher than a 3rd on Milroe either.

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Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 9:39 PM, Dbeasy said:

I wasn't a Hurts believer at Bama either. 

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Same. I don't think any of us amatuers would predict he'd become as good of a pro as he is. 

Still, he was picked mid-second round in a very deep QB class. He likely goes in the first otherwise. That QB class is looking awesome - Burrow, Tua, Herbert, and Love ALL are hits as first rounders. 

Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 9:39 PM, Dbeasy said:

If I am an NFL GM, I have a hard rule of no higher than a 3rd round pick on him. Any higher is too much potential wasted draft capital.

I'm also not a Milroe believer, but then I wasn't a Hurts believer at Bama either. I wouldn't spend higher than a 3rd on Milroe either.

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Much rather take Quinn in the second vs Sanders in the first and it is not that close

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Posted

I love Bobby but he’s doing that silly Bobby thing where he sits down to pee. “Look guys, I think a minimum of 8 longhorns get drafted this year”. 
uh, thanks Bobby. Gerry had 12 or 13 with broughton as the differential between the 2 numbers. He’s getting drafted folks. 

Posted (edited)
  On 1/14/2025 at 9:45 PM, GreenspointTexas said:

Williams gone

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I'm not sure about the relative strengths of the '25 and '26 tackle classes.  If the '26 class is strong, that might have influenced Williams' decision to come out now.  And if he's getting first round grades, it makes his decision even more understandable, though I would have to question a grade that high for him.  

Putting all that aside for a moment, I think he's making a mistake.  He's not a finished product at this point, and the pass pro whiff on the 4th down play against Ohio State is only one piece of evidence in that regard.  He could have made himself a lot of money had he stayed in school and showed improvement in '25. 

I would have also liked to see him return for selfish reasons.  His departure means Texas has to find 3.5 new O-line starters (I'm counting Hutson as a .5 since he has started in the past).  That's a lot of flux for an O-line.  One of the advantages the team had this past season was that the O-line continuity was substantial.  We won't have that next season.  It'll be tough to have the offense humming on all 8 cylinders next season breaking in a new QB and an O-line that is mostly comprised of new starters.  FWIW, I'm hearing Hutson probably moves to center next season, making a possible O-line of:  Goosby-Umeozulu-Hutson-Campbell-Baker.  

Edited by Carl Spackler
Posted
  On 1/16/2025 at 3:44 PM, Carl Spackler said:

I'm not sure about the relative strengths of the '25 and '26 tackle classes.  If the '26 class is strong, that might have influenced Williams' decision to come out now.  And if he's getting first round grades, it makes his decision even more understandable, though I would have to question a grade that high for him.  

Putting all that aside for a moment, I think he's making a mistake.  He's not a finished product at this point, and the pass pro whiff on the 4th down play against Ohio State is only one piece of evidence in that regard.  He could have made himself a lot of money had he stayed in school and showed improvement in '25. 

I would have also liked to see him return for selfish reasons.  His departure means Texas has to find 3.5 new O-line starters (I'm counting Hutson as a .5 since he has started in the past).  That's a lot of flux for an O-line.  One of the advantages the team had this past season was that the O-line continuity was substantial.  We won't have that next season.  It'll be tough to have the offense humming on all 8 cylinders next season breaking in a new QB and an O-line that is mostly comprised of new starters.  

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I would love for him to come back, but hard to say a guy projected as late 1st round/early 2nd should stay. Injury risk of coming back outweighs the potential to move up significantly .

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Posted
  On 1/16/2025 at 3:50 PM, Codaxx said:

I would love for him to come back, but hard to say a guy projected as late 1st round/early 2nd should stay. Injury risk of coming back outweighs the potential to move up significantly .

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For sure.  If his grade is high 2 or low 1, it makes the decision all the more understandable.

But insurance can mitigate the risk you mentioned.  And NIL helps offset the $$ loss occasioned by staying in school vs. turning pro.  

Ultimately, it's his decision and I wish him well.  But I still think it's a mistake.

Posted
  On 1/16/2025 at 3:56 PM, Carl Spackler said:

For sure.  If his grade is high 2 or low 1, it makes the decision all the more understandable.

But insurance can mitigate the risk you mentioned.  And NIL helps offset the $$ loss occasioned by staying in school vs. turning pro.  

Ultimately, it's his decision and I wish him well.  But I still think it's a mistake.

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2025 Consensus Big Board | NFL Mock Draft Database

has him consensus #30 right now

Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 9:12 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

It's not about Quinn in that scenario I'm just saying I wouldn't take any of these guys and if I absolutely had to take a QB I'd trade down from 1-3 or 4 and pick up draft capital to have me ready to take Sanders, then I'd trade down again to pick up more capital to someone who wanted him and if an owner put a gun to my head I'd rather have the 3rd best guy at the ass end of the 1st round with all the extra picks from the 2 trade downs than anyone else. I think Quinn is probably the 3rd QB gone, but I wouldn't take him unless I was forced to. I just HATE this QB draft all the way around.  

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That's probably the best strategy in almost every draft. The percentages of top 5 qb picks living up to expectations is not that great.

Posted

Cam Williams draft profile/landing spots: https://collegefootballnetwork.com/cameron-williams-landing-spots-draft-2025/

  Quote

Strengths

Incredibly high ceiling with an outstanding combination of size and strength at 6’5” and 335 pounds.

Substantial athleticism and explosive movement out of his stance. Adequate agility and quickness when working laterally

Vice-like grip strength. Williams can counter pass rushing skill moves with accurate hand placement and dispersing arm swipes.

He Can climb to the second level as a run blocker, displaying controlled mobility and a bruising, erasing mentality.

Weaknesses

Extremely raw. Williams lacks experience as a one-year starter, showcased by his 13 penalties in 2024.

Williams needs to improve his anchor to maintain his play strength significantly.

He lacks anticipation, leading to him getting beat on an island.

He needs to refine his technique and learn how edge rushers are beating him.

He has Heavy footwork, which shows up in Williams’ delayed movement getting into his stance in pass protection and his inability to mirror rushers. He can stumble too often as a run blocker in space because he hasn’t transitioned his balance correctly.

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IMHO he's being drafted on mostly potential. 

 

Posted
  On 1/16/2025 at 3:44 PM, Carl Spackler said:

Putting all that aside for a moment, I think he's making a mistake.  He's not a finished product at this point, and the pass pro whiff on the 4th down play against Ohio State is only one piece of evidence in that regard.  He could have made himself a lot of money had he stayed in school and showed improvement in '25. 

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He's only making a mistake if you assume him coming back next year would result in a ton of development where he plays at an elite level and shores up some big areas of weakness. That's not very likely and unless that happens, he'd be making a mistake by not going this year. 

I think Williams would improve some but still have a lot of the same flaws he has this year. He's not likely to ever project as a top 15 pick.  He can improve in his technique, but he's never going to have good feet or handle speed rushers well. NFL teams like traits and guys who come out of college early. Williams has both of those things right now, which is why he's already projected as a late first rounder despite having an up and down season on the field. If he comes back and shows a second year of film with a lot of the same flaws and is now a year older, he could absolutely hurt his stock quite a bit. 

Also, the difference between being a late first and a mid-first isn't that huge in terms of money. Byron Murphy was #16 overall last year and got 4/$16 mil fully guaranteed. Nate Wiggins was the #30 pick and got 4/$12.8 mil fully guaranteed. The amount of improvement Williams would have to show to jump from late first to mid-first would be pretty big, and I don't think it's very likely he would take that big of a jump next year. 

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Posted (edited)
  On 1/16/2025 at 5:08 PM, Burt Macklin said:

He's only making a mistake if you assume him coming back next year would result in a ton of development where he plays at an elite level and shores up some big areas of weakness. That's not very likely and unless that happens, he'd be making a mistake by not going this year. 

I think Williams would improve some but still have a lot of the same flaws he has this year. He's not likely to ever project as a top 15 pick.  He can improve in his technique, but he's never going to have good feet or handle speed rushers well. NFL teams like traits and guys who come out of college early. Williams has both of those things right now, which is why he's already projected as a late first rounder despite having an up and down season on the field. If he comes back and shows a second year of film with a lot of the same flaws and is now a year older, he could absolutely hurt his stock quite a bit. 

Also, the difference between being a late first and a mid-first isn't that huge in terms of money. Byron Murphy was #16 overall last year and got 4/$16 mil fully guaranteed. Nate Wiggins was the #30 pick and got 4/$12.8 mil fully guaranteed. The amount of improvement Williams would have to show to jump from late first to mid-first would be pretty big, and I don't think it's very likely he would take that big of a jump next year. 

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Yep, that's the assumption.  But I don't necessarily agree that it's "not very likely" Williams could jump in development from a Day 2 or possible late first day pick to a top 15 pick if he stayed another year at Texas given his physical skills at his size, the amount of improvement he apparently showed between '23 and '24 according to reports, and the jump in quality of play that his predecessor (Jones) showed between his junior and senior seasons which demonstrates that Texas is actually developing O-linemen these days. 

And, of course, the issue of whether he'd be better off declaring vs. staying depends in part on how deep in quality the '26 tackle class is, which is a subject about which I admittedly know very little.

None of this is an exact science.  I just have a feeling he's making a mistake given the holes in his game and the possibility that a year of development could send him up the draft grade lists.  Hopefully I'm wrong or the mistake ends up being relatively minor in nature.

 

 

Edited by Carl Spackler
Posted
  On 1/16/2025 at 5:22 PM, Carl Spackler said:

Yep, that's the assumption.  But I don't necessarily agree that it's "not very likely" Williams could jump in development from a Day 2 or possible late first day pick to a top 15 pick given his physical skills at his size, the amount of improvement he apparently showed between '23 and '24 according to reports, and the jump in quality of play that his predecessor (Jones) showed between his junior and senior seasons which demonstrates that Texas is actually developing O-linemen these days. 

And, of course, the issue of whether he'd be better off declaring vs. staying depends in part on how deep in quality the '26 tackle class is, which is a subject about which I admittedly know very little.

None of this is an exact science.  I just have a feeling he's making a mistake given the holes in his game and the possibility that a year of development could send him up the draft grade lists.  Hopefully I'm wrong or the mistake ends up being relatively minor in nature.

 

 

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Just my opinion, but I think Cam has a ceiling on where he can go. He appears to be RT in NFL with a chance he bumps inside. I dont see him as a franchise LT that can be left on an island to deal with some of the best athletes in the NFL. I think that caps him to the mid-1st round. I hope I am wrong, but I dont see the feet and movement skills

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Posted (edited)
  On 1/15/2025 at 9:19 PM, kevwun said:

His tape is gonna be ugly.  He has a tipped ball problem that is only going to be worse in the NFL and throws a terrible deep ball in addition to really poor pocket presence.  He will definitely look good at the pro day because that's where he excels.  I think his issues are so clear though that teams aren't going to be in a hurry to take him early.

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This is an RPO problem, not a Quinn problem.  His pocket presence is the biggest concern to me.

Edited by JBJ
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Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 2:02 PM, Fud said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

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I would hope Tennessee wouldn't take Ward but at this point the franchise seems like they have no direction, so they'll do something stupid. 

Posted
  On 1/16/2025 at 5:57 PM, JBJ said:

This is an RPO problem, not a Quinn problem.  His pocket presence is the biggest concern to me.

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Some of it may be RPO, but QE's arm slot is pretty low, so it's probably a combination of these and other factors.  He's had plenty of passes batted in traditional dropback/pocket situations.

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Posted (edited)
  On 1/16/2025 at 5:57 PM, JBJ said:

This is an RPO problem, not a Quinn problem.  His pocket presence is the biggest concern to me.

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I think everything for Quinn was better before the oblique injury. Everything seemed to have slowed down for him and then after he got hurt he seemed like he regressed but got a LOT better later in the year.

Something else to consider with respect to Shadeur and Ward - what elite defenses did they face? When you look at the top of the draft you see players on teams that Ewers, Dart, and Howard had to play.

That's why I think we might see a reshuffling of the QB prospect rankings. 

Edited by The Dog
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Posted
  On 12/26/2024 at 9:26 PM, TonyTexas said:
I don’t see how Schoen keeps his job for next year. First, there is the awful Daniel Jones extension. Then letting Barkely walk to a rival club, even though Mara very much wanted to keep him, should be the last straw. 

Plus the Hard Knocks exposure of how they/he thought the S. Barkley trade would go down - in the face of the owner. I’m surprised that he wasn’t fired the following week! I’d have told him to hit the streets after that shit show!

Hook’em!!!
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Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 9:18 PM, The Dog said:

I never understood the Milroe talk and his performances against OU and Michigan should bring everyone down to earth.

Ewers - even with his issues - is a much better prospect.

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It will be similar to Anthony Richardson. He did shit at Florida and then showed out at the combine and shot to the top of the draft. Milroe will test comparable to him and some of these GMs are enamored with measurables.

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Posted
  On 1/15/2025 at 9:39 PM, Dbeasy said:

If I am an NFL GM, I have a hard rule of no higher than a 3rd round pick on him. Any higher is too much potential wasted draft capital.

I'm also not a Milroe believer, but then I wasn't a Hurts believer at Bama either. I wouldn't spend higher than a 3rd on Milroe either.

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Hurts has had one electric year.  Even his biggest apologists don’t acknowledge him as a great passer.  Tush push

Posted

These would both be plug and play starters for Houston day one. I'd prefer Warren or a high end DT, but these are fine options too 

 

Posted

1) Titans- Cam Ward
2) Browns- Travis Hunter
3) Giants- Shedeur Sanders
4) Patriots- Abdul Carter
5) Jaguars- Mason Graham
6) Raiders- Tetairoa McMillan
7) Jets- Mykel Williams
'8) Panthers- Jalon Walker
9) Saints- Will Johnson
10) Bears- Will Campbell
11) 49ers- Kelvin Banks Jr
12) Cowboys- Luther Burden III
13) Dolphins- Malaki Starks
14) Colts- Tyler Warren
15) Falcons- Shemar Stewart
16) Cardinals- Tyler Booker
17) Bengals- Jihaad Campbell
18) Seahawks- Armand Membou
19) Buccaneers- Nick Emmanwori
20) Broncos- Ashton Jeanty
21) Steelers- Emeka Egbuka
22) Chargers- Colston Loveland
23) Packers- Mike Green
24) Vikings- Benjamin Morrison
25) Texans- Josh Simmons
26) Rams- Josh Conerly Jr
27) Ravens- Shavon Revel Jr
28) Lions- James Pearce Jr
29) Commanders- Nic Scourton
30) Bills- Maxwell Hairston
31) Chiefs- Walter Nolen
32) Eagles- Kenneth Grant

 

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