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2025 NFL Draft


Wulaw Horn

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25 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

All of these guys are stupidly assuming that Banks falls below this magical threshold of being 6'4, and they think he has short arms for some reason. He has been officially measured and is confirmed to be 6'4 and he will have a better wingspan than most think. Banks will be the first OT off the board. 

These draft guys pick a favorite trope for the season and just beat the shit out of it until everyone thinks it is factual. Mel Kiper is still felating Will Levis as this criminally undervalued quarterback, even though he never threw for more than 2500 yards in a season. Chris Simms was fucking the chicken that was Zack Wilson as the best QB in the draft. On and on it goes with no repercussions to their abject stupidity.  

Daniel Jeremiah almost certainly has measureables for all of the major program players from when he visits teams in the spring/summer, and Brugler probably has most of them too

It's not just draft twitter guys who are thinking this. Some teams will have positional measureables thresholds that they won't go below for certain picks

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1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

3 OT’s going before Banks is crazy to me. He’s probably the best OL in Texas history. I envision him going between 8-12 in the first round. The Cowboys would be nuts to pass on him and pick Burton instead. That would really piss me off. Of course they believe they have their two OT’s. I believe Guyton will fail to improve. 

I think he goes higher but if a team views him as a guard and wants a tackle then they'll pass on him. It's stupid but it is what it is.

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

3 QB's in the first 2 rounds if I counted that right, Milroe being third QB. I will bet the over on that as QB's tend to get overdrafted. Could see Quinn with a good offseason going in the first two rounds (I wouldn't take him at all and I like Quinn). I also would have zero part of taking Milroe, that seems dumb.  Other than Quinn I can't think of any other horns (maybe Bond if he runs a smoking 40 time) that I think have much of a chance of going in the first 2 rounds.  

I said this on the Quinn thread, but I think he gets healthier and, as a result, really impresses at the combine/pro day. IMHO, he goes higher than people expect. I'm also curious to see how NFL teams view Cam Ward - he throws sidearm as much as Quinn. 

 

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26 minutes ago, The Dog said:

I think he goes higher but if a team views him as a guard and wants a tackle then they'll pass on him. It's stupid but it is what it is.

I said this on the Quinn thread, but I think he gets healthier and, as a result, really impresses at the combine/pro day. IMHO, he goes higher than people expect. I'm also curious to see how NFL teams view Cam Ward - he throws sidearm as much as Quinn. 

 

I'm baking the healthy and looking awesome throwing against air. I wouldn't personally draft him b/c I don't think he can ever stay healthy over a full nfl season (amongst some other issues) but yeah- I think his pro days and combine go really well for him, QB's get overdrafted, Milroe at 3rd best in the draft is absurd etc etc so that would militate toward top 2 rounds for Quinn when all is said and done.  If he's early 2nd round I'd not be surprised to see a team trade up to end of the first to get the 5th year in case he's a hit.  NFL teams are desperate for good QB's and if I didn't have one I'd draft one every single year high until I did have one.  That seems to be the new trend in some places.  Who knows. 

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26 minutes ago, Fud said:

He's very likely going #1 overall 

Yeah I've seen that in recent mocks but will he stay there? I'm not sure he's good enough to be 1/1. 

 

3 minutes ago, The_highest_of_fives said:

Saw a couple of mocks that had QE going to Steelers in either first or second round. 

Yeah looking at the draft order it would make sense - but he'd have to play right away unless they re-sign Russ or someone else for a year or two.

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Just now, The Dog said:

Yeah I've seen that in recent mocks but will he stay there? I'm not sure he's good enough to be 1/1. 

 

I think so. He's a better prospect than Shedeur, and a QB is going #1 considering the #1 pick needs a QB, and there's three other teams in the top six who could draft one and might trade up for him if Tennessee for whatever reason doesn't want to draft a QB at 1.1

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30 minutes ago, Fud said:

I think so. He's a better prospect than Shedeur, and a QB is going #1 considering the #1 pick needs a QB, and there's three other teams in the top six who could draft one and might trade up for him if Tennessee for whatever reason doesn't want to draft a QB at 1.1

I think I'd rather have Quinn at 33 (but I'd trade up to 32) plus the draft capital I got from trading down with whoever than just take Ward #1.  That doesn't seem like a 1.1 guy to me, seems like a force.  And I say that as a guy who wouldn't have Quinn on my draft board, probably, such is my stay away factor from Ward at 1.1.

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7 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I think I'd rather have Quinn at 33 (but I'd trade up to 32) plus the draft capital I got from trading down with whoever than just take Ward #1.  That doesn't seem like a 1.1 guy to me, seems like a force.  And I say that as a guy who wouldn't have Quinn on my draft board, probably, such is my stay away factor from Ward at 1.1.

If I must draft a QB to start this year (because ownership demands it), I'd just take Ward. If I don't have to take a QB necessarily this year, I'd just punt for a year and hope to pick up more picks and still take Carter/Hunter 

I'm definitely not passing on Ward to trade back and then take Quinn later 

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47 minutes ago, Fud said:

If I must draft a QB to start this year (because ownership demands it), I'd just take Ward. If I don't have to take a QB necessarily this year, I'd just punt for a year and hope to pick up more picks and still take Carter/Hunter 

I'm definitely not passing on Ward to trade back and then take Quinn later 

You probably have to take Ward. I would certainly would not take Milroe or Ewers until the 3rd or later. Not going to go through every player, but they both were turnover machines this year with 17 a piece and probably near the top nationally (Quinn turnover/29.5 touches and Milroe turnover/28.6 touches). That doesnt bode well for the NFL.

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42 minutes ago, Fud said:

If I must draft a QB to start this year (because ownership demands it), I'd just take Ward. If I don't have to take a QB necessarily this year, I'd just punt for a year and hope to pick up more picks and still take Carter/Hunter 

I'm definitely not passing on Ward to trade back and then take Quinn later 

It's not about Quinn in that scenario I'm just saying I wouldn't take any of these guys and if I absolutely had to take a QB I'd trade down from 1-3 or 4 and pick up draft capital to have me ready to take Sanders, then I'd trade down again to pick up more capital to someone who wanted him and if an owner put a gun to my head I'd rather have the 3rd best guy at the ass end of the 1st round with all the extra picks from the 2 trade downs than anyone else. I think Quinn is probably the 3rd QB gone, but I wouldn't take him unless I was forced to. I just HATE this QB draft all the way around.  

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3 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

You probably have to take Ward. I would certainly would not take Milroe or Ewers until the 3rd or later. Not going to go through every player, but they both were turnover machines this year with 17 a piece (Quinn turnover/29.5 touches and Milroe turnover/28.6 touches). That doesnt bode well for the NFL.

I never understood the Milroe talk and his performances against OU and Michigan should bring everyone down to earth.

Ewers - even with his issues - is a much better prospect.

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His tape is gonna be ugly.  He has a tipped ball problem that is only going to be worse in the NFL and throws a terrible deep ball in addition to really poor pocket presence.  He will definitely look good at the pro day because that's where he excels.  I think his issues are so clear though that teams aren't going to be in a hurry to take him early.

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2 minutes ago, The Dog said:

I never understood the Milroe talk and his performances against OU and Michigan should bring everyone down to earth.

Ewers - even with his issues - is a much better prospect.

People see that athleticism and deep ball. Someone usually falls in love with that and thinks they can clean up their decision making.  I hope the same thing happens for Quinn. Some team sees his workout and falls in love with the raw tools and thinks they clean up his issues.

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1 minute ago, kevwun said:

His tape is gonna be ugly.  He has a tipped ball problem that is only going to be worse in the NFL and throws a terrible deep ball in addition to really poor pocket presence.  He will definitely look good at the pro day because that's where he excels.  I think his issues are so clear though that teams aren't going to be in a hurry to take him early.

All this is true.  Teams draft QB's higher than they should b/c it's so important to success in the nfl and this year is a real tallest midget competition at QB.

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1 hour ago, kevwun said:

Ewers still has terrible pocket presence.  At this point you have to think that's it not fixable.  He just not capable of comfortably floating around the pocket.  It will be interesting to see how teams talk themselves around that.

If I am an NFL GM, I have a hard rule of no higher than a 3rd round pick on him. Any higher is too much potential wasted draft capital.

20 minutes ago, The Dog said:

I never understood the Milroe talk and his performances against OU and Michigan should bring everyone down to earth.

Ewers - even with his issues - is a much better prospect.

I'm also not a Milroe believer, but then I wasn't a Hurts believer at Bama either. I wouldn't spend higher than a 3rd on Milroe either.

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8 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I wasn't a Hurts believer at Bama either. 

Same. I don't think any of us amatuers would predict he'd become as good of a pro as he is. 

Still, he was picked mid-second round in a very deep QB class. He likely goes in the first otherwise. That QB class is looking awesome - Burrow, Tua, Herbert, and Love ALL are hits as first rounders. 

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18 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

If I am an NFL GM, I have a hard rule of no higher than a 3rd round pick on him. Any higher is too much potential wasted draft capital.

I'm also not a Milroe believer, but then I wasn't a Hurts believer at Bama either. I wouldn't spend higher than a 3rd on Milroe either.

Much rather take Quinn in the second vs Sanders in the first and it is not that close

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I love Bobby but he’s doing that silly Bobby thing where he sits down to pee. “Look guys, I think a minimum of 8 longhorns get drafted this year”. 
uh, thanks Bobby. Gerry had 12 or 13 with broughton as the differential between the 2 numbers. He’s getting drafted folks. 

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On 1/14/2025 at 1:45 PM, GreenspointTexas said:

Williams gone

I'm not sure about the relative strengths of the '25 and '26 tackle classes.  If the '26 class is strong, that might have influenced Williams' decision to come out now.  And if he's getting first round grades, it makes his decision even more understandable, though I would have to question a grade that high for him.  

Putting all that aside for a moment, I think he's making a mistake.  He's not a finished product at this point, and the pass pro whiff on the 4th down play against Ohio State is only one piece of evidence in that regard.  He could have made himself a lot of money had he stayed in school and showed improvement in '25. 

I would have also liked to see him return for selfish reasons.  His departure means Texas has to find 3.5 new O-line starters (I'm counting Hutson as a .5 since he has started in the past).  That's a lot of flux for an O-line.  One of the advantages the team had this past season was that the O-line continuity was substantial.  We won't have that next season.  It'll be tough to have the offense humming on all 8 cylinders next season breaking in a new QB and an O-line that is mostly comprised of new starters.  FWIW, I'm hearing Hutson probably moves to center next season, making a possible O-line of:  Goosby-Umeozulu-Hutson-Campbell-Baker.  

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3 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

I'm not sure about the relative strengths of the '25 and '26 tackle classes.  If the '26 class is strong, that might have influenced Williams' decision to come out now.  And if he's getting first round grades, it makes his decision even more understandable, though I would have to question a grade that high for him.  

Putting all that aside for a moment, I think he's making a mistake.  He's not a finished product at this point, and the pass pro whiff on the 4th down play against Ohio State is only one piece of evidence in that regard.  He could have made himself a lot of money had he stayed in school and showed improvement in '25. 

I would have also liked to see him return for selfish reasons.  His departure means Texas has to find 3.5 new O-line starters (I'm counting Hutson as a .5 since he has started in the past).  That's a lot of flux for an O-line.  One of the advantages the team had this past season was that the O-line continuity was substantial.  We won't have that next season.  It'll be tough to have the offense humming on all 8 cylinders next season breaking in a new QB and an O-line that is mostly comprised of new starters.  

I would love for him to come back, but hard to say a guy projected as late 1st round/early 2nd should stay. Injury risk of coming back outweighs the potential to move up significantly .

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1 minute ago, Codaxx said:

I would love for him to come back, but hard to say a guy projected as late 1st round/early 2nd should stay. Injury risk of coming back outweighs the potential to move up significantly .

For sure.  If his grade is high 2 or low 1, it makes the decision all the more understandable.

But insurance can mitigate the risk you mentioned.  And NIL helps offset the $$ loss occasioned by staying in school vs. turning pro.  

Ultimately, it's his decision and I wish him well.  But I still think it's a mistake.

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6 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

For sure.  If his grade is high 2 or low 1, it makes the decision all the more understandable.

But insurance can mitigate the risk you mentioned.  And NIL helps offset the $$ loss occasioned by staying in school vs. turning pro.  

Ultimately, it's his decision and I wish him well.  But I still think it's a mistake.

2025 Consensus Big Board | NFL Mock Draft Database

has him consensus #30 right now

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19 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It's not about Quinn in that scenario I'm just saying I wouldn't take any of these guys and if I absolutely had to take a QB I'd trade down from 1-3 or 4 and pick up draft capital to have me ready to take Sanders, then I'd trade down again to pick up more capital to someone who wanted him and if an owner put a gun to my head I'd rather have the 3rd best guy at the ass end of the 1st round with all the extra picks from the 2 trade downs than anyone else. I think Quinn is probably the 3rd QB gone, but I wouldn't take him unless I was forced to. I just HATE this QB draft all the way around.  

That's probably the best strategy in almost every draft. The percentages of top 5 qb picks living up to expectations is not that great.

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Cam Williams draft profile/landing spots: https://collegefootballnetwork.com/cameron-williams-landing-spots-draft-2025/

Quote

Strengths

Incredibly high ceiling with an outstanding combination of size and strength at 6’5” and 335 pounds.

Substantial athleticism and explosive movement out of his stance. Adequate agility and quickness when working laterally

Vice-like grip strength. Williams can counter pass rushing skill moves with accurate hand placement and dispersing arm swipes.

He Can climb to the second level as a run blocker, displaying controlled mobility and a bruising, erasing mentality.

Weaknesses

Extremely raw. Williams lacks experience as a one-year starter, showcased by his 13 penalties in 2024.

Williams needs to improve his anchor to maintain his play strength significantly.

He lacks anticipation, leading to him getting beat on an island.

He needs to refine his technique and learn how edge rushers are beating him.

He has Heavy footwork, which shows up in Williams’ delayed movement getting into his stance in pass protection and his inability to mirror rushers. He can stumble too often as a run blocker in space because he hasn’t transitioned his balance correctly.

IMHO he's being drafted on mostly potential. 

 

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1 hour ago, Carl Spackler said:

Putting all that aside for a moment, I think he's making a mistake.  He's not a finished product at this point, and the pass pro whiff on the 4th down play against Ohio State is only one piece of evidence in that regard.  He could have made himself a lot of money had he stayed in school and showed improvement in '25. 

He's only making a mistake if you assume him coming back next year would result in a ton of development where he plays at an elite level and shores up some big areas of weakness. That's not very likely and unless that happens, he'd be making a mistake by not going this year. 

I think Williams would improve some but still have a lot of the same flaws he has this year. He's not likely to ever project as a top 15 pick.  He can improve in his technique, but he's never going to have good feet or handle speed rushers well. NFL teams like traits and guys who come out of college early. Williams has both of those things right now, which is why he's already projected as a late first rounder despite having an up and down season on the field. If he comes back and shows a second year of film with a lot of the same flaws and is now a year older, he could absolutely hurt his stock quite a bit. 

Also, the difference between being a late first and a mid-first isn't that huge in terms of money. Byron Murphy was #16 overall last year and got 4/$16 mil fully guaranteed. Nate Wiggins was the #30 pick and got 4/$12.8 mil fully guaranteed. The amount of improvement Williams would have to show to jump from late first to mid-first would be pretty big, and I don't think it's very likely he would take that big of a jump next year. 

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14 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

He's only making a mistake if you assume him coming back next year would result in a ton of development where he plays at an elite level and shores up some big areas of weakness. That's not very likely and unless that happens, he'd be making a mistake by not going this year. 

I think Williams would improve some but still have a lot of the same flaws he has this year. He's not likely to ever project as a top 15 pick.  He can improve in his technique, but he's never going to have good feet or handle speed rushers well. NFL teams like traits and guys who come out of college early. Williams has both of those things right now, which is why he's already projected as a late first rounder despite having an up and down season on the field. If he comes back and shows a second year of film with a lot of the same flaws and is now a year older, he could absolutely hurt his stock quite a bit. 

Also, the difference between being a late first and a mid-first isn't that huge in terms of money. Byron Murphy was #16 overall last year and got 4/$16 mil fully guaranteed. Nate Wiggins was the #30 pick and got 4/$12.8 mil fully guaranteed. The amount of improvement Williams would have to show to jump from late first to mid-first would be pretty big, and I don't think it's very likely he would take that big of a jump next year. 

Yep, that's the assumption.  But I don't necessarily agree that it's "not very likely" Williams could jump in development from a Day 2 or possible late first day pick to a top 15 pick if he stayed another year at Texas given his physical skills at his size, the amount of improvement he apparently showed between '23 and '24 according to reports, and the jump in quality of play that his predecessor (Jones) showed between his junior and senior seasons which demonstrates that Texas is actually developing O-linemen these days. 

And, of course, the issue of whether he'd be better off declaring vs. staying depends in part on how deep in quality the '26 tackle class is, which is a subject about which I admittedly know very little.

None of this is an exact science.  I just have a feeling he's making a mistake given the holes in his game and the possibility that a year of development could send him up the draft grade lists.  Hopefully I'm wrong or the mistake ends up being relatively minor in nature.

 

 

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Just now, Carl Spackler said:

Yep, that's the assumption.  But I don't necessarily agree that it's "not very likely" Williams could jump in development from a Day 2 or possible late first day pick to a top 15 pick given his physical skills at his size, the amount of improvement he apparently showed between '23 and '24 according to reports, and the jump in quality of play that his predecessor (Jones) showed between his junior and senior seasons which demonstrates that Texas is actually developing O-linemen these days. 

And, of course, the issue of whether he'd be better off declaring vs. staying depends in part on how deep in quality the '26 tackle class is, which is a subject about which I admittedly know very little.

None of this is an exact science.  I just have a feeling he's making a mistake given the holes in his game and the possibility that a year of development could send him up the draft grade lists.  Hopefully I'm wrong or the mistake ends up being relatively minor in nature.

 

 

Just my opinion, but I think Cam has a ceiling on where he can go. He appears to be RT in NFL with a chance he bumps inside. I dont see him as a franchise LT that can be left on an island to deal with some of the best athletes in the NFL. I think that caps him to the mid-1st round. I hope I am wrong, but I dont see the feet and movement skills

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20 hours ago, kevwun said:

His tape is gonna be ugly.  He has a tipped ball problem that is only going to be worse in the NFL and throws a terrible deep ball in addition to really poor pocket presence.  He will definitely look good at the pro day because that's where he excels.  I think his issues are so clear though that teams aren't going to be in a hurry to take him early.

This is an RPO problem, not a Quinn problem.  His pocket presence is the biggest concern to me.

Edited by JBJ
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On 1/15/2025 at 8:02 AM, Fud said:
  Reveal hidden contents

1. Tennessee Titans: Cam Ward, QB, Miami

2. Cleveland Browns: Abdul Carter, Edge, Penn State

3. New York Giants: Travis Hunter, CB/WR, Colorado

4. New England Patriots: Tetairoa McMillan, WR, Arizona

5. Jacksonville Jaguars: Will Johnson, CB, Michigan

6. Las Vegas Raiders: Shedeur Sanders, QB, Colorado

7. New York Jets: Mason Graham, DT, Michigan

8. Carolina Panthers: Jalon Walker, Edge, Georgia

9. New Orleans Saints: Malaki Starks, S, Georgia

10. Chicago Bears: Josh Simmons, OT, Ohio State

11. San Francisco 49ers: Armand Membou, OT/G, Missouri

12. Dallas Cowboys: Luther Burden III, WR, Missouri

13. Miami Dolphins: Will Campbell, OT/G, LSU

14. Indianapolis Colts: Tyler Warren, TE, Penn State

15. Atlanta Falcons: Shemar Stewart, DL, Texas A&M

16. Arizona Cardinals: Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon

17. Cincinnati Bengals: Mykel Williams, Edge, Georgia

18. Seattle Seahawks: Kelvin Banks Jr., OT/G, Texas

19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: James Pearce Jr., Edge, Tennessee

20. Denver Broncos: Ashton Jeanty, RB, Boise State

21. Pittsburgh Steelers: Emeka Egbuka, WR, Ohio State

22. Los Angeles Chargers: Colston Loveland, TE, Michigan

23. Green Bay Packers: Tyleik Williams, DT, Ohio State

24. Minnesota Vikings: Kaleb Johnson, RB, Iowa

25. Houston Texans: Tyler Booker, G, Alabama

26. Los Angeles Rams: Josh Conerly Jr., OT, Oregon

27. Washington Commanders: Mike Green, Edge, Marshall

28. Baltimore Ravens: Donovan Jackson, OT/G, Ohio State

29. Buffalo Bills: Shavon Revel Jr., CB, East Carolina

30. Philadelphia Eagles: JT Tuimoloau, Edge, Ohio State

31. Kansas City Chiefs: Kenneth Grant, DT, Michigan

32. Detroit Lions: Nic Scourton, Edge, Texas A&M

33. Cleveland Browns: Aireontae Ersery, OT, Minnesota
34. New York Giants: Jalen Milroe, QB, Alabama
35. Tennessee Titans: Jack Sawyer, Edge, Ohio State
36. Jacksonville Jaguars: Jonah Savaiinaea, G, Arizona
37. Las Vegas Raiders: Omarion Hampton, RB, North Carolina
38. New England Patriots: Cameron Williams, OT, Texas
39. Chicago (from CAR): Wyatt Milum, G/C, West Virginia
40. New Orleans Saints: Matthew Golden, WR, Texas
41. Chicago Bears: Landon Jackson, Edge, Arkansas
42. New York Jets: Nick Emmanwori, S, South Carolina
43. San Francisco 49ers: Walter Nolen, DT, Ole Miss
44. Dallas Cowboys: TreVeyon Henderson, RB, Ohio State
45. Indianapolis Colts: Azareye’h Thomas, CB, Florida State
46. Atlanta Falcons: Jahdae Barron, CB, Texas
47. Arizona Cardinals: Princely Umanmielen, Edge, Ole Miss
48. Miami Dolphins: Harold Fannin Jr., TE, Bowling Green
49. Cincinnati Bengals: Marcus Mbow, OT/G, Purdue
50. Seattle Seahawks: Deone Walker, DT, Kentucky
51. Denver Broncos: Mason Taylor, TE, LSU
52. Pittsburgh Steelers: Maxwell Hairston, CB, Kentucky
53. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Carson Schwesinger, LB, UCLA
54. Green Bay Packers: Jordan Burch, Edge, Oregon
55. Los Angeles Chargers: Josaiah Stewart, Edge, Michigan
56. Buffalo Bills (from MIN): Donovan Ezeiruaku, Edge, Boston College
57. Carolina (from LAR): Alfred Collins, DT, Texas
58. Houston Texans: Tre Harris, WR, Ole Miss
59. Baltimore Ravens: Jihaad Campbell, LB/Edge, Alabama
60. Washington Commanders: Elic Ayomanor, WR, Stanford
61. Buffalo Bills: Xavier Watts, S, Notre Dame
62. Philadelphia Eagles: Grey Zabel, G/C, North Dakota State
63. Kansas City Chiefs: Jayden Higgins, WR, Iowa State
64. Detroit Lions: Benjamin Morrison, CB, Notre Dame

 

I would hope Tennessee wouldn't take Ward but at this point the franchise seems like they have no direction, so they'll do something stupid. 

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22 minutes ago, JBJ said:

This is an RPO problem, not a Quinn problem.  His pocket presence is the biggest concern to me.

Some of it may be RPO, but QE's arm slot is pretty low, so it's probably a combination of these and other factors.  He's had plenty of passes batted in traditional dropback/pocket situations.

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30 minutes ago, JBJ said:

This is an RPO problem, not a Quinn problem.  His pocket presence is the biggest concern to me.

I think everything for Quinn was better before the oblique injury. Everything seemed to have slowed down for him and then after he got hurt he seemed like he regressed but got a LOT better later in the year.

Something else to consider with respect to Shadeur and Ward - what elite defenses did they face? When you look at the top of the draft you see players on teams that Ewers, Dart, and Howard had to play.

That's why I think we might see a reshuffling of the QB prospect rankings. 

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