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Posted
22 hours ago, Hank Chinaski said:

So, yes, one of the CTM guys said that he reviewed the video of Golden’s run “frame by frame” and somehow claimed it was impossible that he could have run a 4.29. I wasn’t listening closely enough to grasp why it was impossible or what exactly he discovered, but he also had no explanation as to why there was this one false time in the entire combine.

They were also talking about “feeling” guys’ speed, at which point I kinda tapped out. 

The bizarre part about their position on Golden is that the guy has damned near flawless film. He’s good to great at every part of being a WR and then the combine performance took away one of the only open questions. 

I would still take McMillon at WR1, but Golden has the highest floor of any WR in the draft. Whoever takes that dude likely has a productive WR for years to come. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

The bizarre part about their position on Golden is that the guy has damned near flawless film. He’s good to great at every part of being a WR and then the combine performance took away one of the only open questions. 

I would still take McMillon at WR1, but Golden has the highest floor of any WR in the draft. Whoever takes that dude likely has a productive WR for years to come. 

Agreed. Listening to these guys talk about how he was their 7th or 8th best WR in this class was bizarre. It felt like they thought Golden had become overrated because of the 4.29, so they went way too far out of their way to make the point that they don’t think he “plays that fast” that they’ve now underrated him. 

Posted
On 3/29/2025 at 12:07 PM, Hook1997 said:

This is part of the problem, he doesn’t have a ton of highlight film showing him beating people deep because his QB couldn’t get the ball to him.  

could they not get the ball to him in Houston either?

Posted
1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

could they not get the ball to him in Houston either?

Ewers got Golden career highs in catches, yards, TDs, and yards per catch.  Oh, and helped him to College Football Playoff semi-final appearance.

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Posted
On 3/29/2025 at 1:00 PM, Had Enough said:

Pretty certain Bond had the second fastest top end speed.  Thought Bond was 2nd behind the DB.

I never said Bond was quicker to 40.  Pretty sure dudes beat Usain Bolt to 30-40 yards too.  Were they faster than him too?

He was. His starts were pretty rough at the combine. Would it surprise anyone if Bond didn’t take combine prep seriously? 

Posted
On 3/29/2025 at 8:51 AM, Hank Chinaski said:

So, yes, one of the CTM guys said that he reviewed the video of Golden’s run “frame by frame” and somehow claimed it was impossible that he could have run a 4.29. I wasn’t listening closely enough to grasp why it was impossible or what exactly he discovered, but he also had no explanation as to why there was this one false time in the entire combine.

They were also talking about “feeling” guys’ speed, at which point I kinda tapped out. 

A few reasons. He just runs so smooth and he does every so well and composed everyone assumed he’s a 4.5 guy. And we never talked about his speed so everyone was shocked.  And people are haters.  
 

as for frame by frame, they put him up against worthy and the other guys he’s legit

2 hours ago, Thatguy said:

could they not get the ball to him in Houston either?

Quick name the qb he played with at Houston.  

1 hour ago, Had Enough said:

Ewers got Golden career highs in catches, yards, TDs, and yards per catch.  Oh, and helped him to College Football Playoff semi-final appearance.

This team really let Quinn down

Posted
12 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

A few reasons. He just runs so smooth and he does every so well and composed everyone assumed he’s a 4.5 guy. And we never talked about his speed so everyone was shocked.  And people are haters.  
 

as for frame by frame, they put him up against worthy and the other guys he’s legit

Quick name the qb he played with at Houston.  

This team really let Quinn down

Gerry lamented at the time that Texas didn’t take Golden. He had him ranked really high as a recruit, but it fell on deaf ears with both the staff and his peers. 

The guy then toils in relative obscurity at UH before he comes to Texas and puts up big numbers. Yet he’s still questioned in scouting corners as maybe just “okay”. 

Human nature should tell us all that pedigree matters and creates biases, particularly at the high profile positions. That’s happened here in some form. “If he’s that good, why weren’t we hearing about it sooner?” It’s the same reason 5 star busts at QB, WR, and RB will keep on finding opportunities if they’re not hooked on drugs and such. 

My thesis is basically that if Golden started out at Texas or some other blue blood, the remaining skepticism with him wouldn’t exist. 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Gerry lamented at the time that Texas didn’t take Golden. He had him ranked really high as a recruit, but it fell on deaf ears with both the staff and his peers. 

The guy then toils in relative obscurity at UH before he comes to Texas and puts up big numbers. Yet he’s still questioned in scouting corners as maybe just “okay”. 

Human nature should tell us all that pedigree matters and creates biases, particularly at the high profile positions. That’s happened here in some form. “If he’s that good, why weren’t we hearing about it sooner?” It’s the same reason 5 star busts at QB, WR, and RB will keep on finding opportunities if they’re not hooked on drugs and such. 

My thesis is basically that if Golden started out at Texas or some other blue blood, the remaining skepticism with him wouldn’t exist. 

Somewhat relevant I think golden roasted us in 2023

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Posted
2 hours ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

A few reasons. He just runs so smooth and he does every so well and composed everyone assumed he’s a 4.5 guy. And we never talked about his speed so everyone was shocked.  And people are haters.  
 

as for frame by frame, they put him up against worthy and the other guys he’s legit

Quick name the qb he played with at Houston.  

 

The point was he has never really been a downfield guy. NFL scouts know the deal. These kids get with a pre-draft program. They get to the ideal weight possible, and have a running coach literally working with them to shave every millisecond off their 40 time. Then they get drafted and go back to their playing weight and that 4.29 is more like 4.4. So when you see scouts saying someone doesn't play fast this is what they mean. Some dudes are naturally fast like X. Other guys are combine prep fast like Mitchell. Golden is a great player no doubt. He likely isn't 4.29 on gameday. My cousin Thomas Lewis had a hammy and literally ran 4.6 at the combine but still went first round because he played fast on film.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

These kids get with a pre-draft program. They get to the ideal weight possible, and have a running coach literally working with them to shave every millisecond off their 40 time. Then they get drafted and go back to their playing weight and that 4.29 is more like 4.4. So when you see scouts saying someone doesn't play fast this is what they mean.

Be that as it may, the clear logical inconsistency remains - why are we only scrutinizing the fastest guy’s time? Is there some reason to believe that Golden was the only guy to train for the 40 when everyone is incentivized to do so? All because his time didn’t match our expectation?

You can see how this very quickly devolves into confirmation bias, which calls into question why we even bother to time these guys in the 40 or collect any objective data on them at all.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Chinaski said:

Be that as it may, the clear logical inconsistency remains - why are we only scrutinizing the fastest guy’s time? Is there some reason to believe that Golden was the only guy to train for the 40 when everyone is incentivized to do so? All because his time didn’t match our expectation?

You can see how this very quickly devolves into confirmation bias, which calls into question why we even bother to time these guys in the 40 or collect any objective data on them at all.

Some guys train hard. Some guys don't. Some guys get a lot out of it. Some guys don't. It's not equal sum. You can see it when they play. You take a Worthy or Bond. A simple end around ends up getting housed. One missed tackle on a short pass and that guy might be gone. Both of those guys clocked over 24 mph while Golden clocked 23. So Golden clearly learned how to get out of the blocks fast but in terms of pure speed he is behind Worthy, Bond, Mitchell and it shows on film. That's not to say he isn't the better receiver. Dude has a much bigger catch radius than those guys and is a flat out gamer. That's what he should be judged on anyway.

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Posted
On 3/27/2025 at 9:53 AM, irishtexan said:

He's got elite speed, so he'll get drafted by someone who thinks they can scheme around it. But where does he play in the NFL? What does he do? He's not big enough, can't run inside, and has too many ball security issues to be a starting RB. He's probably not big enough to pick up blitzing LBs nor are his hands good enough to be a third down back. Is he a returner like Turpin? He wasn't our primary kick return guy, and with his hands, not sure he can be trusted to cleanly field punts. I'm just not sure where he plays in the NFL. 

I heard somewhere - it might have been OTF - that the Broncos are enamored with Blue and might be willing to reach a bit for him to avoid missing out on him when their pick comes around again. That would be a good fit. 

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Posted
8 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Some guys train hard. Some guys don't. Some guys get a lot out of it. Some guys don't. It's not equal sum. You can see it when they play. You take a Worthy or Bond. A simple end around ends up getting housed. One missed tackle on a short pass and that guy might be gone. Both of those guys clocked over 24 mph while Golden clocked 23. So Golden clearly learned how to get out of the blocks fast but in terms of pure speed he is behind Worthy, Bond, Mitchell and it shows on film. That's not to say he isn't the better receiver. Dude has a much bigger catch radius than those guys and is a flat out gamer. That's what he should be judged on anyway.

But there are situations where that ridiculous early acceleration is more important than top end speed.  In fact, I'd say acceleration is more important most of the time.  A world class sprinter doesn't reach their top speed until at least 50 meters (~ 55 yards), and those are rare football plays.

Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

But there are situations where that ridiculous early acceleration is more important than top end speed.  In fact, I'd say acceleration is more important most of the time.  A world class sprinter doesn't reach their top speed until at least 50 meters (~ 55 yards), and those are rare football plays.

It’s what makes worth so elite is his start stop speed. He just so happens to be the fastest recorded player in combine history. 
 

for instance restrepo out of Miami runs 4.8-4.9 but he has elite start stop that allows him to win routes. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Was there a reason given why he didn't? 

I didn't read any, but he claims his crappy pro day times were because he pulled a hamstring while training.  The implication was that the injury happened very recently; i.e., after the combine.

Posted
1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

But there are situations where that ridiculous early acceleration is more important than top end speed.  In fact, I'd say acceleration is more important most of the time.  A world class sprinter doesn't reach their top speed until at least 50 meters (~ 55 yards), and those are rare football plays.

You can ‘yeah, but’ this to death. The truth is that any player will rarely reach top speed.  They’ll also never start in a sprinter stance and run 40 yards straight.  It’s interesting, to me anyway, that about 40 WRs ran the 40 at the combine but only a dozen did the shuttle and 3-cone drill.  I’d say the combo of those 3 is more meaningful than a 40 alone yet few want to put that comparative data out there.

Posted
27 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

It’s interesting, to me anyway, that about 40 WRs ran the 40 at the combine but only a dozen did the shuttle and 3-cone drill.  I’d say the combo of those 3 is more meaningful than a 40 alone yet few want to put that comparative data out there.

Absolutely no disagreement there.  My main thought is that something like a 10 yard split is probably one of the most valuable metrics for a skill athlete.  The 40 at least blends acceleration and top end speed, but it's not very reflective of many football plays.

Posted (edited)

Here is Steve Smith breaking down Golden 2 weeks ago(timestamped). Smith is pretty good at evaluating receiver and hits on a lot of the guys he hypes. Compares Golden to McMillan and you gives insight how pro teams construct receiver rooms and how we do similar. 

 

 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
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Posted

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2025-nfl-draft-re-grading-every-first-round-qb-pick-of-last-15-years-from-jayden-daniels-to-tim-tebow/#

interesting article and eye opening.  Only an 18% hit rate for 1st round qb draftees. That’s a fail in any business.  You have a better shot of winning doing pull a string or tossing baseballs in a basket at a carnival.
 

says a lot to the herd mentality, the lack of development, the terrible analytics, bad coaching, etc.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Texzilla58 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2025-nfl-draft-re-grading-every-first-round-qb-pick-of-last-15-years-from-jayden-daniels-to-tim-tebow/#

interesting article and eye opening.  Only an 18% hit rate for 1st round qb draftees. That’s a fail in any business.  You have a better shot of winning doing pull a string or tossing baseballs in a basket at a carnival.
 

says a lot to the herd mentality, the lack of development, the terrible analytics, bad coaching, etc.

It's been proven, that except in rare circumstances, building a good team first, and then finding a QB makes more sense.

Hell even labeling Daniels a Hit now, would be soon...becuase he could have a fall off the next few years. Same as another Washington first year stand out in RGIII

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Posted
5 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

But there are situations where that ridiculous early acceleration is more important than top end speed.  In fact, I'd say acceleration is more important most of the time.  A world class sprinter doesn't reach their top speed until at least 50 meters (~ 55 yards), and those are rare football plays.

And that's true. However, is the player a real world representation of what he is on the football field or is he coming into the combine "at sprinter weight", thereby allowing to be quicker than he ever has been on the football field? That's the million dollar question. Again, we are all just spitballing here as Golden is a hell of a receiver regardless of his 40 time.

Posted
The bizarre part about their position on Golden is that the guy has damned near flawless film. He’s good to great at every part of being a WR and then the combine performance took away one of the only open questions. 
I would still take McMillon at WR1, but Golden has the highest floor of any WR in the draft. Whoever takes that dude likely has a productive WR for years to come. 

I think it’s crazy that late into the season before he started to shine there were talks of him coming back lol and now he may be WR1 in the draft.
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Posted
9 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

And that's true. However, is the player a real world representation of what he is on the football field or is he coming into the combine "at sprinter weight", thereby allowing to be quicker than he ever has been on the football field? That's the million dollar question. Again, we are all just spitballing here as Golden is a hell of a receiver regardless of his 40 time.

Well, given the importance of combine and pro day results I would expect any player to train accordingly.  Those who don't are perhaps not as dialed in.

Posted
2 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2025-nfl-draft-re-grading-every-first-round-qb-pick-of-last-15-years-from-jayden-daniels-to-tim-tebow/#

interesting article and eye opening.  Only an 18% hit rate for 1st round qb draftees. That’s a fail in any business.  You have a better shot of winning doing pull a string or tossing baseballs in a basket at a carnival.
 

says a lot to the herd mentality, the lack of development, the terrible analytics, bad coaching, etc.

Wonder what this was before they slotted pay for 1st round picks? Teams reach for QBs consistently now because if you hit your franchise is set.

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Posted
25 minutes ago, TexasExe14 said:


I think it’s crazy that late into the season before he started to shine there were talks of him coming back lol and now he may be WR1 in the draft.

In the middle of last season on a recruiting thread, future depth chart at WR came up and we discussed it.

I remember saying that the dude was hearing mid-rounds from the feedback loop and asking why he wasn't valued more. He basically does everything really well and he has okay size. We all kind of settled on the premise that he's not elite with his speed. Then he kept putting up numbers against good opponents and then the combine happened. There aren't many out there, but the number is more than 1 of people who get credit in the draft process and are still stuck on the sentiment about him from mid-year. 

Posted
3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, given the importance of combine and pro day results I would expect any player to train accordingly.  Those who don't are perhaps not as dialed in.

It's not just that though. Take a receiver like X. Already super lean. Already has good running technique and efficient turnover. A guy like that isn't going to benefit as much from a running coach and weight program. A guy like Golden who probably goes 5'11 and 200lbs during the season can get a lot more by getting to a lean 190 and cleaning up his technique. Jamaal Charles at his leanest ran a 10.13 100m. Had he showed up to the combine at that weight he would've ran a 4.2 40. He showed up at 200lbs and ran a 4.38, but ole buddy played way faster than that.

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Posted
8 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Mitchell ran a 4'3 and almost 24 mph. 24 mph is moving. That's almost Worthy level turnover.

You were talking about film, not the 40. Mitchell never looked 4.3 in pads. He certainly never looked faster than Golden.

Posted
On 3/30/2025 at 12:08 PM, SimkinsMan said:

As more Texas players are drafted this year, it will be fun to watch the Texas-hater narrative switch from: Texas coaches can't develop talent to Texas coaches are wasting all of their abundant talent.

I don't see how back-to-back semifinals is wasting, but ok.

Posted
1 hour ago, mwaadeeb said:

You were talking about film, not the 40. Mitchell never looked 4.3 in pads. He certainly never looked faster than Golden.

As soon as Mitchell hit the 40 Sark made him the deep threat and had Worthy working the short to intermediate. AD was able to run by every defense we played. He didn't look 4.3 but he did look like a guy who couldn't be covered deep 1v1. 

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Posted
7 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Jamaal Charles at his leanest ran a 10.13 100m. Had he showed up to the combine at that weight he would've ran a 4.2 40. He showed up at 200lbs and ran a 4.38, but ole buddy played way faster than that.

I don’t want to be THATGUY, but…

Past Participles are a real thing.

If I were THATGUY, I would write:

”…he would’ve run a 4.2…”

🤘

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Posted
7 hours ago, Napoleon said:

I don’t want to be THATGUY, but…

Past Participles are a real thing.

If I were THATGUY, I would write:

”…he would’ve run a 4.2…”

🤘

'd'ran'ta

Posted
36 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Tmac doesn’t like to watch film.  Gentlemen I’d like to introduce you to the next wr diva

Didn't he just say he doesn't watch film in his spare time? Some people just want to show up, do their job well, and go have other hobbies.

Posted
39 minutes ago, texifornia said:

Didn't he just say he doesn't watch film in his spare time? Some people just want to show up, do their job well, and go have other hobbies.

Yea.  But everything is magnified and piled onto your resume.  At least pretend to be a film geek and a student of the game. The manziel, Kyler and Trevor Lawrence vibe doesn’t come off well 

Posted
54 minutes ago, texifornia said:

Didn't he just say he doesn't watch film in his spare time? Some people just want to show up, do their job well, and go have other hobbies.

Yes, people like our "smart" friend in this thread are drastically overreacting to an out of context clip from like his freshman year. Tmac is in no way a diva and there are no work ethic concerns with him.

He said he watches film with the team, but he doesn't do a ton outside of that. WR is probably the position where watching film matters the least. 

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