Air conditioning in negotiating home sale

[orangecat92 306]

Got a home for sale.  Market has turned to buyers market in last 4 weeks.  Incredible remodel done.  Good price. In a sellers market I could have gotten by with my 17 year old AC outdoor unit..I have babied the unit..once sometimes twice per year it gets service. I have receipt only for last service in june....

I have big poker chip...home owners warranty expires March 23

I asked my realtor to keep big warranty in back pocket for negotiations.  Retail value of how is probably 2500

Recommendations?

Be ready with lowball estimates of replacing unit?

Inside unit is 9 years old.  Works.

 

 

[PilotsError 2286]

Bust out a warranty as a negotiating tactic?

[Quagmire 2147]

Lulz

[Chuychanga 133]

I thought warranties were pretty standard and expected on every sell. 

[deadshank 24652]

3 minutes ago, Chuychanga said:

I thought warranties were pretty standard and expected on every sell. 

Huh?   This is a real estate transaction on a used property, not a new Ford Focus.

[Chuychanga 133]

I’ve never bought a home without one. 

[deadshank 24652]

43 minutes ago, Chuychanga said:

I’ve never bought a home without one. 

A warranty on the house or a warranty on the HVAC?

[immamac 42835]

Standard practice to buy a home warranty for the buyers as a seller. Keeps a lot of shit from blowing back on you. 

[South Austin 52449]

1 hour ago, Chuychanga said:

I thought warranties were pretty standard and expected on every sell. 

They are.  It's on the TREC form contract that most everyone uses for residential home sales, and it's about a $500 item. 

[woohorn 1131]

Incredible remodel done...17 year old AC

Does.Not.Compute.

You're a flipper. Offer to split cost of a new unit, but pucker-up...

[jimmyjazz 45887]

If that's a standard AHS (or similar) warranty, I'm struggling to see anywhere near $2500 value.  You pay $40+ per month and $90+ deductible on every repair.  I'm not saying it's worthless, it's one of the few "extended" warranties I've owned and it does pay for itself most years, but $2500?

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

Maybe it is just me, but I would laugh if you laid down a warranty as a negotiating tactic. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21872]

Those home warranties are almost as fucking worthless as title insurance and the thieves offering them probably bribed TREC to put that on the form.

[Brewin’1up 34]

Seconded.

In my experience, home warranties aren't worth that paper they're printed on (at least that's the way it was with American Home Shield). You paid the $90 fee for the tech to show up and tell you it wasn't covered.They Always denied the claim stating that it was a per-existing condition or normal wear-and-tear.

Last house we bought, the owner tried to sweeten the deal with an AHS "warranty", we told them keep your warranty, give me the cash.

 

 

 

[elfenix 34223]

3 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Those home warranties are almost as fucking worthless as title insurance and the thieves offering them probably bribed TREC to put that on the form.

a judge i was in front of rhetorically asked "what does title insurance actually cover?"

[South Austin 52449]

I actually got an AC unit covered by an American Home Shield warranty. 

[jimmyjazz 45887]

39 minutes ago, Brewin’1up said:

Seconded.

In my experience, home warranties aren't worth that paper they're printed on (at least that's the way it was with American Home Shield). You paid the $90 fee for the tech to show up and tell you it wasn't covered.They Always denied the claim stating that it was a per-existing condition or normal wear-and-tear.

Last house we bought, the owner tried to sweeten the deal with an AHS "warranty", we told them keep your warranty, give me the cash.

 

 

 

I've never had a claim denied, and have called them several dozen times over the years (13 and counting).

[deadshank 24652]

21 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I actually got an AC unit covered by an American Home Shield warranty. 

Did you spit or swallow?

[South Austin 52449]

6 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Did you spit or swallow?

I would never do something like that, you asshole.

 

 

 

My wife on the other hand . . . .

[Washpark 176]

7 hours ago, South Austin said:

They are.  It's on the TREC form contract that most everyone uses for residential home sales, and it's about a $500 item. 

1234

I would never pay for one but used them on both home purchases and never had issues having items covered. Ask me in about a year as I am going to try to have my A/C replaced

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

26 minutes ago, Washpark said:

1234

I would never pay for one but used them on both home purchases and never had issues having items covered. Ask me in about a year as I am going to try to have my A/C replaced

They have covered things for me, but they also wanted me to wait 3 days in Texas in August for an AC repair appointment, so I paid to have it fixed on my own. 

[jimmyjazz 45887]

I've never had anything major replaced.  They will just string you along, replacing the single bad component (that is surely indicative of more serious problems) until the end of life on earth as we know it.  I've always checked, and the net cost has been a win for me, even accounting for the monthly subscription.

 

[orangecat92 306]

To clarify it is 45 dollar fee per incident...warranty works.  2500 because the warranty expires March 2023.

 

The company needed some cash one year and called people who were already customers...they offered about six more years of coverage for a low price..I want to say 1600...prices have gone up

...so I believe retail value of remainder of warranty to be 2500ish.

 

 

 

[woohorn 1131]

The company needed some cash one year and called people who were already customers...they offered about six more years of coverage for a low price.

Pretty good sign for warranty companies.

[orangecat92 306]

The reality is also that because I have taken good care of unit she works just fine.

 

We are a 2 story facing south with a 2 story right next to us. Our unit is in shade in afternoon from the other house.

 

Also most summers I let it get nice and hot upstairs when I am home

 

Lots of mileage left on her.

 

Today we had a showing..245 to 345.outside temp 103

 I put therm at 78.   I got  home at 345 and inside temp upstairs was 78 and downstairs was 74!

Working hard and she only has about 2 weeks of crazy heat left..thunderstorms are coming.

 

 

[jimmyjazz 45887]

23 minutes ago, orangecat92 said:

To clarify it is 45 dollar fee per incident...warranty works.  2500 because the warranty expires March 2023.

 

 

You're saying the monthly warranty subscription fees are prepaid until 3/23?

[swraith 345]

As the buyer I would expect you to offer cash for up to half the value of a replacement A/C unit that is of generic quality. So figure about $3k+. As the seller I would try and hold out and offer nothing. But come on it is a 17 year old unit. It is going to fail. And if it needs Freon, that unit is going to just be replaced.

No buyer wants to worry about replacing the HVAC right after they buy the house even if you do have the warranty. Replacing the unit is a hassle. If you did a major remodel, that would seem to apply you are selling to the turn key crowd, not the fixer upper crowd.

As a buyer I hate the AHS warranties. I find zero value in them. I want to be able to pick my own service company. Not use the cheapest POS company that the insurance company uses. I also want to pick the piece of replacement equipment, not have the insurance company put the cheapest POS equipment on my property.

You can try to assign value to that home warranty during negotiations. It’s a crapshoot. Maybe the buyer will take your offer at face value. You get lucky. Maybe you get a buyer like me that if they felt they had leverage in a buyers market would turn the screws and be willing to walk away over something like this. You can always ask the realtors to pitch in some cash to close the gap if negotiations breakdown but the deal is close.

[Anastasis 23459]

We got the standard TREC home warranty through old republic. Had zero service calls. Renewed in year two. Had capacitor go out on 2nd level outside unit.  OR connected me with A-US airconditioning of texas.  They told me they couldn't come out until Thursday, this was monday.  Called OR back and they said its a very high volume time of year, and they would let me call a local company.  Called Lakeway AC and they were out within a couiple hours, fixed the problem for $239, and OR is supposedly going to refund the difference. 

[Anastasis 23459]

Oh, and to the OP I would give you zero consideration on an AC warranty in my offer. 

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

3 hours ago, orangecat92 said:

To clarify it is 45 dollar fee per incident...warranty works.  2500 because the warranty expires March 2023.

  

The company needed some cash one year and called people who were already customers...they offered about six more years of coverage for a low price..I want to say 1600...prices have gone up

 ...so I believe retail value of remainder of warranty to be 2500ish.

  

 

 

Its like you were ripping them off. 

 

 

[orangecat92 306]

5 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

You're saying the monthly warranty subscription fees are prepaid until 3/23?

Correct but I never paid monthly. I paid a one time fee....probably in the 1600 dollar range.  I was an existing customer and the company had done a good job covering incidents.  Very unusual I believe.   This company has done other things like every time you use their service they would give you an extra month of coverage. 

[DanRydell 799]

8 hours ago, Brewin’1up said:

Seconded.

In my experience, home warranties aren't worth that paper they're printed on (at least that's the way it was with American Home Shield). You paid the $90 fee for the tech to show up and tell you it wasn't covered.They Always denied the claim stating that it was a per-existing condition or normal wear-and-tear.

Last house we bought, the owner tried to sweeten the deal with an AHS "warranty", we told them keep your warranty, give me the cash.

 

 

 

Yup. We had one of the contractors finally explain to us why our Old Republic warranty was so fucking worthless. Basically, any part they replaced, they had to send the old part to the warranty company. If the warranty company looked at it and deemed it didn't need to be replaced, the contractor didn't get reimbursed and just had to take a loss on the repair. So it's in the contractor's interest to just take their fee for coming out and tell you nothing is wrong.

They also didn't seem to have contracts with any local contractors in Austin. They were always driving up from San Antonio or some shit.

Edited July 24, 2018 by DanRydell

[orangecat92 306]

3 hours ago, swraith said:

As the buyer I would expect you to offer cash for up to half the value of a replacement A/C unit that is of generic quality. So figure about $3k+. As the seller I would try and hold out and offer nothing. But come on it is a 17 year old unit. It is going to fail. And if it needs Freon, that unit is going to just be replaced.

No buyer wants to worry about replacing the HVAC right after they buy the house even if you do have the warranty. Replacing the unit is a hassle. If you did a major remodel, that would seem to apply you are selling to the turn key crowd, not the fixer upper crowd.

As a buyer I hate the AHS warranties. I find zero value in them. I want to be able to pick my own service company. Not use the cheapest POS company that the insurance company uses. I also want to pick the piece of replacement equipment, not have the insurance company put the cheapest POS equipment on my property.

You can try to assign value to that home warranty during negotiations. It’s a crapshoot. Maybe the buyer will take your offer at face value. You get lucky. Maybe you get a buyer like me that if they felt they had leverage in a buyers market would turn the screws and be willing to walk away over something like this. You can always ask the realtors to pitch in some cash to close the gap if negotiations breakdown but the deal is close.

Interesting.  I have a hybrid strategy.  Tell me how you would react to this..I already researched outside units.  Goodman makes a high quality unit.  Number 1 in a recent article...

 I offer to come to table with the 2363 dollars cash....and proof that the Goodman unit.....5 ton heat pump 16 seer outside unit can be bought for that amount.  In return since you place 0 value on a HOW....the house comes with no warranty....at all.

No counter .....take it or leave it.

I think this is a good compromise because i the seller am calling the bluff that warranties are useless.

I am saying you can't have it both ways....you can either have cash to buy a unit or you can have a warranty that covers the whole house.

If the buyer folds and expresses interest in a warranty I reveal it's more than a one year warranty

...tell length of warranty....and make him choose.

 

Fair?

 

 

 

[woohorn 1131]

I'm no expert, but "outside unit" ain't shit if the system is R-22. Won't everything have to be upgraded to 410A?

 

PS- I wouldn't even want the paper home warranty is printed on. Life is too short.

[orangecat92 306]

And the buyer might be having their side of this convo right now...another showing tomorrow.....almost exact same time.....who shops for a home at 300 pm in late July?    Maybe someone who is interested in how well the AC works?

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

9 minutes ago, orangecat92 said:

Interesting.  I have a hybrid strategy.  Tell me how you would react to this..I already researched outside units.  Goodman makes a high quality unit.  Number 1 in a recent article...

  I offer to come to table with the 2363 dollars cash....and proof that the Goodman unit.....5 ton heat pump 16 seer outside unit can be bought for that amount.  In return since you place 0 value on a HOW....the house comes with no warranty....at all.

No counter .....take it or leave it.

I think this is a good compromise because i the seller am calling the bluff that warranties are useless.

I am saying you can't have it both ways....you can either have cash to buy a unit or you can have a warranty that covers the whole house.

If the buyer folds and expresses interest in a warranty I reveal it's more than a one year warranty

...tell length of warranty....and make him choose.

 

Fair?

 

 

 

So you're willing to play hardball and kill a potential sale over the perceived value you have of a $1600 warranty?  When you have an AC you should acknowledge is likely to fail soon. 

[orangecat92 306]

7 minutes ago, woohorn said:

I'm no expert, but "outside unit" ain't shit if the system is R-22. Won't everything have to be upgraded to 410A?

 

PS- I wouldn't even want the paper home warranty is printed on. Life is too short.

Good question.  Gives me something else to research.   For some reason i thought we switched Freon years ago

[orangecat92 306]

2 minutes ago, Lobwedgephil said:

So you're willing to play hardball and kill a potential sale over the perceived value you have of a $1600 warranty?  When you have an AC you should acknowledge is likely to fail soon. 

Is that hardball...making a person be consistent? You claim warranty is worthless okay....take some cash and you get no warranty.

 

Is that reasonable or not?

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

55 minutes ago, orangecat92 said:

Is that hardball...making a person be consistent? You claim warranty is worthless okay....take some cash and you get no warranty.

  

Is that reasonable or not?

I must have missed where the buyer was being inconsistent. Every house I have bought or sold had a 1 year home warranty which costs like $350-$500 bucks, but like you say, I think it is pretty much worthless. I have used it to repair a dishwasher and sink, tried on an AC but the wait was unacceptable, but that doesn't matter, just my experience. 

I would take your cash for value of the unit and the standard 1 year warranty, just not sure why you are so hung up on it, are they demanding a higher number to replace the AC? Sorry, just trying to understand your reasoning here. 

Edited July 24, 2018 by Lobwedgephil

[NeverMarryAStripper 21872]

I think if I was the buyer that I would decide that life is too short to deal with people like you and go find another house to buy.

[PilotsError 2286]

OP and Ice Cream Float should get together and discuss negotiating tactics.

[swraith 345]

Interesting.  I have a hybrid strategy.  Tell me how you would react to this..I already researched outside units.  Goodman makes a high quality unit.  Number 1 in a recent article...
 I offer to come to table with the 2363 dollars cash....and proof that the Goodman unit.....5 ton heat pump 16 seer outside unit can be bought for that amount.  In return since you place 0 value on a HOW....the house comes with no warranty....at all.
No counter .....take it or leave it.
I think this is a good compromise because i the seller am calling the bluff that warranties are useless.
I am saying you can't have it both ways....you can either have cash to buy a unit or you can have a warranty that covers the whole house.
If the buyer folds and expresses interest in a warranty I reveal it's more than a one year warranty
...tell length of warranty....and make him choose.
 
Fair?
 
 
 

Personally that deal is far more attractive to me. So yes, I would take the cash and pass on the warranty. Other people may take the opposite. I would not try and get both.

[gsoda3 3245]

12 hours ago, Anastasis said:

We got the standard TREC home warranty through old republic. Had zero service calls. Renewed in year two. Had capacitor go out on 2nd level outside unit.  OR connected me with A-US airconditioning of texas.  They told me they couldn't come out until Thursday, this was monday.  Called OR back and they said its a very high volume time of year, and they would let me call a local company.  Called Lakeway AC and they were out within a couiple hours, fixed the problem for $239, and OR is supposedly going to refund the difference. 

i always keep an extra capacitor on hand.  they go out way too fast in austin.  they're like $8 on amazon and dead easy to replace.  but the best part is it's relatively easy to diagnose when it's a dead capacitor vs something more serious and you can have your a/c fixed within 15 minutes.

[jimmyjazz 45887]

3 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

i always keep an extra capacitor on hand.  they go out way too fast in austin.  they're like $8 on amazon and dead easy to replace.  but the best part is it's relatively easy to diagnose when it's a dead capacitor vs something more serious and you can have your a/c fixed within 15 minutes.

This.  Those starting caps die all the time.

[Jkwellborn 6689]

Good question.  Gives me something else to research.   For some reason i thought we switched Freon years ago

It’s called refrigerant. Freon is a brand name.

[Dahobbs 17526]

14 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I think if I was the buyer that I would decide that life is too short to deal with people like you and go find another house to buy.

This is the correct answer.

[UTPhil2006 3805]

So is it a buyers or sellers market?  Your OP says buyers, your actions indicate sellers

[Anastasis 23459]

7 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

i always keep an extra capacitor on hand.  they go out way too fast in austin.  they're like $8 on amazon and dead easy to replace.  but the best part is it's relatively easy to diagnose when it's a dead capacitor vs something more serious and you can have your a/c fixed within 15 minutes.

Yeah, I am about to order a backup for both units. I diagnosed the issue with a couple minutes on google.