Worldwide Israel/Palestine War Protests Thread

[Brisketexan 103656]

4 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

I made the point a while back that if you lead a protest it should be well organized and with clear goals. Further, you should make efforts to separate yourself from bad actors. Without all three, the message becomes muddled at best, takes away from the issues at hand, gives a massive platform for bad actors (in this case antisemitic murdering assholes) and ultimately does more harm than good.

Also a very good point. I mentioned my wife being involved with a couple of clergy-led protests in recent years, and those points were front-and-center.  They had a clear message and goal.  They had clear expectations as to behavior.  Even the "civil disobedience" portion (that is, the people who were going to sit-down and be arrested for refusing to leave) was planned in detail, discussed with the authorities beforehand, and conducted peacefully.  They made their point, with a plain message.  They did not have any immediate or direct success in terms of policy change, but they took a step forward in changing people's minds/getting them to think.

You don't save the world with one march or act.  You do it slowly, incrementally....frustratingly so.  See the entire civil rights movement.

[BurntEyes 5654]

5 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

I agree with your take on removing Hamas being the holdup in any peace talks. But I don’t see any round table being taken seriously by Israel. They see them as a deadly cancer they are cutting out. If you leave any, it can quickly resurface. 

This plus what Brisket just said is the crux of the bigger issue and what really needs to be the focus. 

They should be addressed, absolutely by the US.

How, exactly, is a interpretation of international diplomatic relations. I don't claim to have that answer, but this is what I personally would make the focus of a protest.

"Why the ghosting, let's talk this through Isreal!" - USA

 

Edited May 8 by BurntEyes

[bolverk 29105]

1 minute ago, BurntEyes said:

I don't think they are, and I think most agree with that sentiment. However, I hope you will agree that there is absolutely a pro-Hamas contingency among all these protests. Further, that they have been allowed to intertwine themselves or at least align with othe efforts calls into question the planning and intent of those who aren't antisemitic. 

Beyond that, the goals of the folks that aren't antisemitic are, at best muddy. What do they hope to achieve?

I made the point a while back that if you lead a protest it should be well organized and with clear goals. Further, you should make efforts to separate yourself from bad actors. Without all three rhe message becomes muddled at best, takes away from the issues at hand, gives a massive platform for bad actors (in this case antisemitic assholes) and ultimately does more harm than good.

I agree with everything you're saying, but not all of the protests are as well organized as you suggest. Some might well be. For instance, the original one at UT on Speedway seemed super efficient and well organized (remember the leaders in yellow vests?). I think that over time, these things start to fall apart as bad actors begin to glom onto an issue/movement and cause trouble. It all just gets out of control, which is why I've been saying for a couple of weeks now that these protests have become counterproductive.

[Brisketexan 103656]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

I think that over time, these things start to fall apart as bad actors begin to glom onto an issue/movement and cause trouble. It all just gets out of control,

Which is why every one of these needs organization and clear, strong leadership.  But those needs are counter to the character of the people most likely to be involved.  Operating the movement as a lovey-dovey commune means you have 1,000 muddle messages and no clear direction.  It's the old problem of when the revolutionaries succeed and take things over....they're only good at being revolutionaries, not at getting actual shit done.  Hell, see the problem from the other side: the radicals who have taken over county and state GOP parties in Michigan.  The meetings and action coming out of them are....a shitshow.  Because everyone is the chief revolutionary, everyone thinks that their vision should define all action and they don't listen to anyone else.  They are good at being radicals and noisemakers.  They are terrible at being "people who actually get shit done."

Culturally, strategic thinking is a huge weakness that we have.  As we can see demonstrated over and over.

[Bevo 13440]

36 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I'm glad you agree we shouldn't paint protesters with a broad brush because it'd be silly to label everyone protesting the war as "pro-Hamas" or "anti-semitic."

 

Just don't say the quiet parts out loud.

[bolverk 29105]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Which is why every one of these needs organization and clear, strong leadership.  But those needs are counter to the character of the people most likely to be involved.  Operating the movement as a lovey-dovey commune means you have 1,000 muddle messages and no clear direction.  It's the old problem of when the revolutionaries succeed and take things over....they're only good at being revolutionaries, not at getting actual shit done.  Hell, see the problem from the other side: the radicals who have taken over county and state GOP parties in Michigan.  The meetings and action coming out of them are....a shitshow.  Because everyone is the chief revolutionary, everyone thinks that their vision should define all action and they don't listen to anyone else.  They are good at being radicals and noisemakers.  They are terrible at being "people who actually get shit done."

Culturally, strategic thinking is a huge weakness that we have.  As we can see demonstrated over and over.

There really doesn't seem to be any kind of centralized leadership with this pro-Palestine movement. A few days ago, a poster raised the question of who's funding the protesters, and another one tracked down an article about some nonprofits raising funds, and a couple of them had ties to some nasty assholes. I wanted to see if the protesters at UT had similar ties to abhorrent shit (good news: I couldn't find any), but what really surprised me was that at UT and around Austin, it looked like there were half a dozen separate organizations. If you scale that up to the whole country and all these universities, there must be hundreds of them. I really think that's playing into how some of the protests aren't making the news because they haven't turned into chaotic circuses while others have. And, honestly, some of that bullshit has been the result of the original response by local authorities and/or campus presidents.

But, yeah, who's the credible leader with impeccable standing and moral authority to lead this protest movement across America? There ain't one, and that's why it's a shitshow.

[956 Worldwide 34019]

These kids are not bringing the Revolution. 
 

 

[YGIFS 19445]

Well if the protests don't work out for them, they have a bright future in the A&M Corps of Cadets Marching Band.  Fake Resistance, Fake Army, Fake Band.  

Edited May 8 by YGIFS

[BurntEyes 5654]

10 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

These kids are not bringing the Revolution. 
 

 

Is this guy from Brazil, cause that tracks. 

[HouTex 1838]

I was in DC Monday and yesterday and drove right past GWU and didn’t see any protesters or problems.  Guess it’s away from the main drag. 

[RDCanecutter 25995]

2 minutes ago, HouTex said:

I was in DC Monday and yesterday and drove right past GWU and didn’t see any protesters or problems.  Guess it’s away from the main drag. 

Or they're ninjas now.

[956 Worldwide 34019]

2 minutes ago, HouTex said:

I was in DC Monday and yesterday and drove right past GWU and didn’t see any protesters or problems.  Guess it’s away from the main drag. 

GWU is an urban campus and I the encampment was off visible areas from the street.  In any case, DC police came and cleared it out today after Congress threatened to make the mayor come testify.  GWU had been asking for police help but the city had demurred to take action. 

[lucious leftfoot 126]

23 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

These kids are not bringing the Revolution. 
 

 

A lot of soy and phytoestrogens in that crowd. 

[Dennis Taylor 18611]

7 hours ago, alincoln said:

Macklemore angling for some festival invites.  

There was one on October 7th he might not have enjoyed very much 

[956 Worldwide 34019]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

There really doesn't seem to be any kind of centralized leadership with this pro-Palestine movement. A few days ago, a poster raised the question of who's funding the protesters, and another one tracked down an article about some nonprofits raising funds, and a couple of them had ties to some nasty assholes. I wanted to see if the protesters at UT had similar ties to abhorrent shit (good news: I couldn't find any), but what really surprised me was that at UT and around Austin, it looked like there were half a dozen separate organizations. If you scale that up to the whole country and all these universities, there must be hundreds of them. I really think that's playing into how some of the protests aren't making the news because they haven't turned into chaotic circuses while others have. And, honestly, some of that bullshit has been the result of the original response by local authorities and/or campus presidents.

But, yeah, who's the credible leader with impeccable standing and moral authority to lead this protest movement across America? There ain't one, and that's why it's a shitshow.

I don’t know how to tell you this but UT Austin does not need half a dozen student orgs dedicated to Palestine and neither does any campus.  These are not real organizations, they are absolutely fake organizations all tied to about 3 national ones that are astroturfed because having a half dozen looks better on your letterhead and Instagram account. Those same 3-4 real organizations are a mix of the typical hard-left “all roads lead to communism” and mixed in with some genuine “we have to let other people do our banking because of the terrorism.”  
 

That’s not to say a lot of the students aren’t genuine in their stance and protests, but please don’t be so naive to think all this broke out spontaneously and that every college campus has 7 real pro-Palestinian orgs with near identical names. 

[956 Worldwide 34019]

The other reason that they need all these orgs is because once the leadership of New York Slippery Rock chapter of “Students for Palestinian Freedom” gets rolled up for sending chapter dues to Hezbollah or some shit, they just roll right into the already registered “Students for Freedom in Palestine.”  There’s been some real naivety, willful at times, about WTF is going on here. 

[Not a cat 5598]

11 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The other reason that they need all these orgs is because once the leadership of New York Slippery Rock chapter of “Students for Palestinian Freedom” gets rolled up for sending chapter dues to Hezbollah or some shit, they just roll right into the already registered “Students for Freedom in Palestine.”  There’s been some real naivety, willful at times, about WTF is going on here. 

This is exactly the bullshit misinformation people are complaining about.  Slippery Rock is in Pennsylvania.

[PRONG HORN 3084]

 

 

H Tine

 

 

 

[Rex Kramer 1240]

15 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

 

H Tine

 

 

 

Fucking. Losers. 

[Captainant 26927]

15 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

H Tine

 

lmfao I clicked on the profile and OF COURSE this dude on twitter is hosting tucker carlson conspiracy memes from russia

seriously dude, where the fuck do you find these people? 8chan?

[956 Worldwide 34019]

The Cougar High thing brought the LULZ.  This is the lamest shit ever.  The cops are doing TikToks. 
 

I repeat that the kids are not bringing the revolution.  They need to read up on Budyonny’s 1st Cavalry Army.  They can’t even do “murderous anti-Semitic pinko revolutionary” correctly. 

 

[Rex Kramer 1240]

14 minutes ago, Captainant said:

lmfao I clicked on the profile and OF COURSE this dude on twitter is hosting tucker carlson conspiracy memes from russia

seriously dude, where the fuck do you find these people? 8chan?

Here you go again. 

[Hank_Hill 17910]

30 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Fucking. Losers. 

Agreed. Those cops have zero rizz

[PRONG HORN 3084]

 

[aggie08 20487]

14 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Here you go again. 

Are there seriously not enough videos out there to make fun of protestors without resorting to sharing the commentary of--and generating clicks/views for--the dumbest, most abhorrent piece of shit losers on Twitter? Nah?

[PRONG HORN 3084]

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Are there seriously not enough videos out there to make fun of protestors without resorting to sharing the commentary of--and generating clicks/views for--the dumbest, most abhorrent piece of shit losers on Twitter? Nah?

 

Well honestly, I don't know.  Is there a way to see a video and then search for a clone of that same clip but from a source more palatable to your senses?  Tell me. 

Some people keep repeating the same thing over and over.  You want different sources for clips.  I get it.  You only want the same clips but from a source who has a post history of aligning with your political beliefs.  

I don't have an internal database of acceptable tweet sources.  I'm glad I don't have that internal database.  That sort of thing doesn't serve me.  Does it serve you? 

 

Is it really simply about their clips getting clicks?  That's what's important here?  

 

  

[aggie08 20487]

12 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

Well honestly, I don't know.  Is there a way to see a video and then search for a clone of that same clip but from a source more palatable to your senses?  Tell me. 

Some people keep repeating the same thing over and over.  You want different sources for clips.  I get it.  You only want the same clips but from a source who has a post history of aligning with your political beliefs.  

I don't have an internal database of acceptable tweet sources.  I'm glad I don't have that internal database.  That sort of thing doesn't serve me.  Does it serve you? 

 

Is it really simply about their clips getting clicks?  That's what's important here?  

 

  

Stop talking to me, dude. I don't give a fuck. Just know that no one buys your, "I just post the videos; I have no idea who the source is, and I don't even read their commentary" bullshit. You've been doing this same shit for years and years all across the board. It's tired and played, but you do you. I do realize that this is y'all's Super Bowl being the rare occasion where your fringe circles finally closely aligns with the mainstream opinion.

Edited May 9 by aggie08

[Poester 109]

Aggie in his feelings tonight. 

[PRONG HORN 3084]

28 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Stop talking to me, dude. I don't give a fuck. Just know that no one buys your, "I just post the videos; I have no idea who the source is, and I don't even read their commentary" bullshit. You've been doing this same shit for years and years all across the board. It's tired and played, but you do you. I do realize that this is y'all's Super Bowl being the rare occasion where your fringe circles finally closely aligns with the mainstream opinion.

 

 

I literally just registered at Twitter within the last six months.  Never seen it's content before in my life until then except for places like Surly and occasional news bits, TV,  etc.  I do read the commentary of the individual tweets I post here, but I don't check the source's feed and scroll down to "see who they are" before I post.  

Be glad that Imma and Lab decide to keep tweets available to post, and do not choose to censor some for the purpose of protecting others. 

When you seek equality for all, you will make choices to reflect that internal realization.  Censoring the "bad people" on twitter just for the purpose of protecting you, is not a manifestation of that equality.  I would never think that I had the right to petition the mods so that I didn't have to see things from Twitter accounts I don't like.  I'm so grateful I've evolved beyond it.  The blade cuts both ways.  Be grateful.   

 

 

 

 

 

[Poester 109]

10 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

 

I literally just registered at Twitter within the last six months.  Never seen it's content before in my life until then except for places like Surly and occasional news bits, TV,  etc.  I do read the commentary of the individual tweets I post here, but I don't check the source's feed and scroll down to "see who they are" before I post.  

Be glad that Imma and Lab decide to keep tweets available to post, and do not choose to censor some for the purpose of protecting others. 

When you seek equality for all, you will make choices to reflect that internal realization.  Censoring the "bad people" on twitter just for the purpose of protecting you, is not a manifestation of that equality.  I would never think that I had the right to petition the mods so that I didn't have to see things from Twitter accounts I don't like.  I'm so grateful I've evolved beyond it.  The blade cuts both ways.  Be grateful.   

 

 

 

 

 

Don’t listen to the pussies, keep posting. 

[52-80 19000]

10 hours ago, Bevo said:

There are protesters with all sorts of agendas. There is a very small group of orthodox Jews who don't believe Israel should be a state. There are communist and Marxist Jews who are leading rallies. There are non-Muslim blacks who believe that Jews control the economy. So, just like stereotypes, it is difficult to paint with a broad brush - there are a variety of personalities that compete to develop an overarching picture.

Its the Jewish Larry Elder. Or, as the LA times like to describe, “the black face of white supremacy”

[PRONG HORN 3084]

3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

There is a very small group of orthodox Jews who don't believe Israel should be a state. 

 

I think there's scripture that states that Jews should always be spread across the land without a unified home.  

 

 

[52-80 19000]

9 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

These kids are not bringing the Revolution. 
 

 

Well, its only Protest Spring camp right now. 
 

Once theyve gone through summer’s Strength & Conditioning program and get the roster shored up, Fall protests are going to be LIT

9 hours ago, HouTex said:

I was in DC Monday and yesterday and drove right past GWU and didn’t see any protesters or problems.  Guess it’s away from the main drag. 

You have to drive to the county juvie

[52-80 19000]

4 hours ago, Poester said:

Aggie in his feelings tonight. 

But not *ALL* aggies are in their feelings! You have to separate the feeling aggies from the non feeling aggies !!!!

[Rex Kramer 1240]

10 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Are there seriously not enough videos out there to make fun of protestors without resorting to sharing the commentary of--and generating clicks/views for--the dumbest, most abhorrent piece of shit losers on Twitter? Nah?

Sure. But that’s all Captainant looks for. Ignore and discredit. It’s the tact of partisan hacks, particularly when video is involved. 

[Captainant 26927]

34 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Sure. But that’s all Captainant looks for. Ignore and discredit. It’s the tact of partisan hacks, particularly when video is involved. 

It's more that the supermajority of links being bandied about this thread are from accounts that were CERTAIN the 2020 election was STOLLEN and that COVID was fake. Idk about y'all, but I think it's important to know what sort of past reporting and inaccuracies a """citizen journalist"""" has in the same way I think it's important for credentialed journalists to stay accountable to their past reporting. 

It's a big part of why I try to link to journalistic sources and real reporting when available. Does in-the-moment Twitter reporting fill some of that breaking news gap for emergent events? Absolutely. But the folks being linked here aren't at any of the events they're """reporting""" on - they're just stoking the outrage fires to superlative effect. Especially when there's not much new being posted and it's more "RECENTLY UNCOVERED SHOCKING FOOTAGE FROM A WEEK AGO!!!" that frequently misrepresents or overstates what actually happened in the video

[Rex Kramer 1240]

17 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It's more that the supermajority of links being bandied about this thread are from accounts that were CERTAIN the 2020 election was STOLLEN and that COVID was fake. Idk about y'all, but I think it's important to know what sort of past reporting and inaccuracies a """citizen journalist"""" has in the same way I think it's important for credentialed journalists to stay accountable to their past reporting. 

It's a big part of why I try to link to journalistic sources and real reporting when available. Does in-the-moment Twitter reporting fill some of that breaking news gap for emergent events? Absolutely. But the folks being linked here aren't at any of the events they're """reporting""" on - they're just stoking the outrage fires to superlative effect. Especially when there's not much new being posted and it's more "RECENTLY UNCOVERED SHOCKING FOOTAGE FROM A WEEK AGO!!!" that frequently misrepresents or overstates what actually happened in the video

They posted video. The video speaks for itself. It cannot be discredited. Type more words. 

[PTINS 3422]

On 5/7/2024 at 1:00 PM, Hank_Hill said:

Bringing police in after laws have been broken is fine yes. Mass show of force before was the issue.

I find the "don't do anything until they break the law" scenario with the "stop them before something bad happens" scenario interesting.

Setting aside the Constitutional arguments for now... 

Consider the hypothetical differences between an engineer and a personal injury attorney; consider everything that might happen and have a contingency plan in place to prevent it, or call Thomas J Henry after the fact because someone did not prevent an eventuality that was conceivable and possible.

Let someone take over the Harry Ransom Center and compromise its contents, or not?

17 hours ago, bolverk said:

I'm glad you agree we shouldn't paint protesters with a broad brush because it'd be silly to label everyone protesting the war as "pro-Hamas" or "anti-semitic."

I agree. The broad brush is inefficient, is not uniform, and wastes too much paint v. painting them with a spray wand.

17 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

The Hamas aspect is the biggest hitch in the path forward. I'm strongly convinced that descaling fighting without finding a way to remove their influence in Gaza will lead to continued attacks and more Israeli lives lost.

17 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

I agree with your take on removing Hamas being the holdup in any peace talks. But I don’t see any round table being taken seriously by Israel. They see them as a deadly cancer they are cutting out. If you leave any, it can quickly resurface. 

The issues with Hamas, including colocating command and control centers under hospitals and schools, is problematic to say the least. 

 "It's like deja vu all over again."

17 hours ago, bolverk said:

I agree with everything you're saying, but not all of the protests are as well organized as you suggest. Some might well be. For instance, the original one at UT on Speedway seemed super efficient and well organized (remember the leaders in yellow vests?). I think that over time, these things start to fall apart as bad actors begin to glom onto an issue/movement and cause trouble. It all just gets out of control, which is why I've been saying for a couple of weeks now that these protests have become counterproductive.

I'm all for peaceful protests, but there are huge differences between the mindset of the 1960's and today, and the 1760's and today. A time and place for everything. 

Marching up Speedway? Go on ahead. Setting up camp in front of the Tower with expressed overtures of taking over the building? Not gonna happen. You cannot allow an outside entity to take over the Tower. Period.

[Hank_Hill 17910]

 

[PRONG HORN 3084]

 

From Yale library

 

 

[PRONG HORN 3084]

 

I'm thinking we might need a worldwide Palestinian protest thread.  The number of (clearly of questionable origin 😁) clips coming across my feed from Europe is surprising.  

 

BTW protestors are  gathering in Malmo for the Eurovision contest not to celebrate the competition, but to protest because an Israeli girl is in the finals.  Does Greta think she should have been disqualified?  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/09/eurovision-israel-protests-eden-golan/

 

 

[YGIFS 19445]

Fair points all, more misinformed kids as per usual.  I wonder though which passage or verse or testament in the Talmund by an American leader whom was sent by the Lord our God would quote as his favorite.  Or is it like a Michael Bolton situation where he likes them all about the same, I guess? 

[PRONG HORN 3084]

11 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Fair points all, more misinformed kids as per usual.

 

 

It starts early for some.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sawbonz 26904]

On 5/8/2024 at 9:53 PM, Captainant said:

lmfao I clicked on the profile and OF COURSE this dude on twitter is hosting tucker carlson conspiracy memes from russia

seriously dude, where the fuck do you find these people? 8chan?

He’s one of these people 

15 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

Sure. But that’s all Captainant looks for. Ignore and discredit. It’s the tact of partisan hacks, particularly when video is involved. 

*tack

[Rex Kramer 1240]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

He’s one of these people 

*tack

Fuck my ass. 

[Anastasis 23215]

7 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

From Yale library

 

 

Book learning is dumb. Everything you need to know you can learn on Twitter.  

[Captainant 26927]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Book learning is dumb. Everything you need to know you can learn on Twitter.  

Very fine people helpfully turn it into video clips and tell me all I need to know on Twitter!

[52-80 19000]

9 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

BTW protestors are  gathering in Malmo for the Eurovision contest not to celebrate the competition, but to protest because an Israeli girl is in the finals.  Does Greta think she should have been disqualified? 

 

It's important to remember that most activists participate as a matter of fashion, not as a matter of principle. 

 

[BurntEyes 5654]

8 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

 

It starts early for some.

 

 

 

 

 

It should not be a revelation to anyone that Greta was groomed by her parents, likely since childhood, to be a mouth piece for their ideologies. Her parents aren't the only ones.

[bolverk 29105]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Book learning is dumb. Everything you need to know you can learn on Twitter.  

 

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Very fine people helpfully turn it into video clips and tell me all I need to know on Twitter!

A fake news site quotes a "scholar" (photo below) making provocative claims about a topic that has absolutely NOTHING TO DO with the protests, so Galaxy Brain thought that was a newsworthy item to post here.