Worldwide Israel/Palestine War Protests Thread

[Rex Kramer 1367]

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

A fake news site quotes a "scholar" (photo below) making provocative claims about a topic that has absolutely NOTHING TO DO with the protests, so Galaxy Brain thought that was a newsworthy item to post here.

What are you talking about

[bolverk 29725]

21 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

What are you talking about

Pronghorn's Yale library troll post from above that has nothing whatsoever to do with protests.

[Rex Kramer 1367]

23 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Pronghorn's Yale library troll post from above that has nothing whatsoever to do with protests.

It’s sad that this is very wishful thinking on your part. 

[bolverk 29725]

 

 

[bolverk 29725]

23 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

It’s sad that this is very wishful thinking on your part. 

 

9 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

Fuck my ass. 

 

It's sad that in your desperate attempts to get fucked in the ass, you keep showing yours.

[52-80 19253]

Twitter truthers, Is visegrad24 trustworthy because its pro-ukraine or is visegrad24 untrustworthy because its pro-israel 😓

[Rex Kramer 1367]

20 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

 

It's sad that in your desperate attempts to get fucked in the ass, you keep showing yours.

Oh, I’m not showing my ass at all except for an embarrassing yet common grammatical error. You SO want this to be counter protestors that I can smell your patchouli through my iPhone  

“Man has assaulted students!”  Lulz. Revenge of the Nerds man. No wonder why YOU are so strongly siding with them. 

[bolverk 29725]

11 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Twitter truthers, Is visegrad24 trustworthy because its pro-ukraine or is visegrad24 untrustworthy because its pro-israel 😓

Can you explain why being pro-Palestinian is necessarily anti-Israel, as the author of the tweet frames it?

I can't speak for all the protestors, but I can say for myself:

• I'm 100% pro-Israel insofar as Israel has the right to exist as a nation within its internationally recognized borders.
• I can also state that I'm pro-Palestine insofar as Palestinians have the right to their own sovereign and fully autonomous nation.
• I'm pro-Israel insofar as they have the right to defend themselves from outside attacks.
• I'm pro-Palestinian insofar as they have all the human rights afforded to them by international law.

The things that I'm opposed to are:

• Hamas/Islamic terrorism and indiscriminate killing of civilians by Israeli military forces.
• Mistreatment of innocent hostages and detainees by both Hamas and Israel.
• Religious extremists, whether they are by Hamas or Israeli settlers, who claim all of the Holy Land exclusively for their tribe. 

Do I expect ALL of the protesters to agree with all of the above? No, but I suspect that many, if not most, would agree with the vast majority of my bullet points. After all, they are rather mainstream positions commonly held throughout the international community and have been official US foreign policy for decades.

Should I, therefore, expect to be labeled anti-Israel for holding them? If you're talking about individuals or groups who are anti-Israel insofar as they oppose the State itself or deny its right to exist, I'll happily label them anti-Israel. If you're talking about people who are opposed to the conduct of the war or are demanding a ceasefire, then that's a bullshit smear.

I simply feel that Visegrad plays too fast and loose with the term "anti-Israel" in a lot of its tweets.

[Rex Kramer 1367]

22 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Should I, therefore, expect to be labeled anti-Israel

Yes. Your very essence demands it. 

 

22 minutes ago, bolverk said:

If you're talking about people who are opposed to the conduct of the war or are demanding a ceasefire, then that's a bullshit smear.

When combined with your posting on the matter it is most certainly not a bullshit smear. 

[52-80 19253]

24 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Can you explain why being pro-Palestinian is necessarily anti-Israel, as the author of the tweet frames it?

Can you explain why its always the author of the tweet, or even the sharer of the tweet, that becomes the subject of litigation, except when its visegrad24. Is it because people find it easiet to discredit the messenger than the message?

I believe it was bill shakespeare who said “a rose by any other name would post such a tweet”

[Anastasis 23484]

I was under the impression that visegrad24 was a polish state sponsored propaganda outlet. Is that not the case?

[bolverk 29725]

10 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Can you explain why its always the author of the tweet, or even the sharer of the tweet, that becomes the subject of litigation, except when its visegrad24. Is it because people find it easiet to discredit the messenger than the message?

I believe it was bill shakespeare who said “a rose by any other name would post such a tweet”

Ah, so you're not interested in an honest conversation. I took the time to answer your question with a thorough response. You just delete all that shit and then throw out more accusatorial queries. Finished engaging with you.

[DixonHur 11376]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

 

I absolutely hate pussy ass mother fuckers like this asshole.  Calls other people pussies while wearing brass knucks...take those off and see what happens bitch.

[Rex Kramer 1367]

45 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I absolutely hate pussy ass mother fuckers like this asshole.  Calls other people pussies while wearing brass knucks...take those off and see what happens bitch.

That band of gypsies wasn’t going to do anything. You think the knuckles hadn’t any impact?  lol. Those idiots were scared shitless. 

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Ah, so you're not interested in an honest conversation. I took the time to answer your question with a thorough response. You just delete all that shit and then throw out more accusatorial queries. Finished engaging with you.

You have zero interest in an honest conversation. You’re interested in employing your CR tactics here, and they won’t work. 

[DixonHur 11376]

6 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

That band of gypsies wasn’t going to do anything. You think the knuckles hadn’t any impact?  lol. Those idiots were scared shitless. 

Bullshit, the guy with the brass knucks was the biggest pussy of the bunch.  

He's clearly a graduate of the Kyle Rittenhouse school of tough guys...needs illegal weapons to feel like a real man...

Not one of the protestors budged an inch and he scurried off like the pussy he is.

Edited May 10 by DixonHur

[Rex Kramer 1367]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Bullshit, the guy with the brass knucks was the biggest pussy of the bunch.  

He's clearly a graduate of the Kyle Rittenhouse school of tough guys...needs illegal weapons to feel like a real man...

Not one of the protestors budged an inch and he scurried off like the pussy he is.

They were very clearly scared of the guy. They only appeared as defiant as you thought they were because there were cops in the background. 

[wildcat09 29397]

So apparently that dude was Rex. Good to know. 

[bolverk 29725]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

So apparently that dude was Rex. Good to know. 

Well, DrRexBeeperPorterKramerHouse has been raging like a roided-out asshole the past few days, so that checks out.

[Rex Kramer 1367]

14 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

So apparently that dude was Rex. Good to know. 

Yeah because a) I would ever waste time engaging these dickless nerds and b) have a Brooklyn accent. 

5 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Well, DrRexBeeperPorterKramerHouse has been raging like a roided-out asshole the past few days, so that checks out.

Raging?  I’ve not once even shown any emotion. You just aren’t accustomed to your narrative being challenged and your feathers are ruffled. 

Edited May 10 by Rex Kramer

[wildcat09 29397]

Pigs at KU really don’t like people who can read:

[Rex Kramer 1367]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Pigs at KU really don’t like people who can read:

You’re not linking any news or stuff we can comment on. Why?

[wildcat09 29397]

Because I’m making fun of cops for being stupid. 

[Willfully Horn 8049]

Push on a cop like that, don’t be surprised if assault charges are filed.

Greta’s parents are anti-fascist, and some folks think that’s a bad thing?

 

[52-80 19253]

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I was under the impression that visegrad24 was a polish state sponsored propaganda outlet. Is that not the case?

It very well could be. But that ‘baggage’ has never been dug up in the Ukraine thread while they were busy sniffing out the ‘good’ vs ‘bad’ accounts. 

The point being that people arent principled or consistent in whether they care about the message vs the messenger, they just cherry pick their vector of attack based on political alignment. 

 

[52-80 19253]

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

Ah, so you're not interested in an honest conversation. I took the time to answer your question with a thorough response. You just delete all that shit and then throw out more accusatorial queries. Finished engaging with you.

You didnt remotely answer my question.

I asked why the people who interrogated each of pronghorns posts and sources, didnt do when it came to the visegrad24 post. All of them are inarguably the same tone — against the protestors. 

You counter-asked “why is pro-palestine framed as anti-israel”? Because greta thunberg, subject of the tweet, literally said this

Quote

Among the crowd of protesters waving Palestinian flags on Malmö’s town square was Greta Thunberg. “It is outrageous that Israel is allowed to participate”, said the environmental activist,

Not wanting Israel to have participation is not anti-israel?

Is protest “against Israel” not anti-Israel or is the guardian also wrong in its framing too?

Then you submitted a bunch of personal statements which i didnt ask for and am frankly not interested in. I dont say that to be insulting, I say that because I didnt have suspicion of your anti-whatever and dont think the honesty of your beliefs need to be brought to trial. 

[Rex Kramer 1367]

59 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Because I’m making fun of cops for being stupid. 

I Don’t See Where They Were Stupid

From the article: “Three individuals, all of whom are KU students, were arrested without incident for criminal trespass at Anschutz Library when they entered and caused a disturbance as students were studying for finals.”

Good work. 

[Rex Kramer 1367]

40 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Greta’s parents are anti-fascist, and some folks think that’s a bad thing?

I dont know anything about them but judging by their support for Antifa and their job raising a nutjob, I don’t want to. 

[Basil 755]

This thread is a fucking disaster.

[closetohumping 17473]

NC cop spits on Palestinian flag

 

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240502-us-cop-spits-on-palestinian-flag-at-north-carolina-university/amp/

[Rex Kramer 1367]

3 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

NC cop spits on Palestinian flag

 

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240502-us-cop-spits-on-palestinian-flag-at-north-carolina-university/amp/

He did?  If so, he’s an idiot who should be fired. But I didn’t seem him spit. 

[bolverk 29725]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

You didnt remotely answer my question.

I asked why the people who interrogated each of pronghorns posts and sources, didnt do when it came to the visegrad24 post. All of them are inarguably the same tone — against the protestors. 

That was NOT your question. This was:

You asked whether Visegrad was a trustworthy news source based on its editorial stance. I answered in the context of that tweet.

 

Protesting Israel's participation in a silly talent contest does NOT constitute being ANTI-ISRAEL. So many fucking tweets in this thread continue to association protests about Israeli policy as meaning being against Israel as a nation or favoring Hamas.

PRO-PALESTINE =/= ANTI-ISRAEL

PRO-PALESTINE =/= PRO-HAMAS

The remainder of my answer explains why I reject that framing of the situation.

Quote

 

You counter-asked “why is pro-palestine framed as anti-israel”? Because greta thunberg, subject of the tweet, literally said this

Not wanting Israel to have participation is not anti-israel?

 

In that clip, she doesn't say she is anti-Israel, as the tweet claims. Go back and listen to the clip.

Quote

 

Is protest “against Israel” not anti-Israel or is the guardian also wrong in its framing too?

 

 

 

Where the fuck in that headline does it say "anti-Israel"? It says people are protesting the Israeli competitor's participation in a talent contest. That doesn't mean they're against Israel as a nation.

Quote

Then you submitted a bunch of personal statements which i didnt ask for and am frankly not interested in. I dont say that to be insulting, I say that because I didnt have suspicion of your anti-whatever and dont think the honesty of your beliefs need to be brought to trial. 

All of that other text you deleted explained the nuance and context that you are apparently not grasping.

Protesting AGAINST AN ACTION by an entity DOES NOT MEAN you are AGAINST THE ESSENCE of that entity.

 

EDIT: Let's make this very clear and simple.

I am against ketchup on steaks. I will protest you pouring ketchup on my steak.

That does not mean I am anti-ketchup. I like ketchup on french fries just fine. 

Edited May 10 by bolverk

[52-80 19253]

Guys, when noted tabloid guardian writes “thousands protest against Israel”, it doesnt mean the people are “anti-israel”.

Its especially more true if you write it in bold burnt orange text.

(Will you extend this interpretive generosity towards people protesting against immigration, for example?)

Its a silly singing contest, yes. But instead of recognizing the prima facie ABSURDITY of thousands of people protesting a single 20 year old girl participating in a silly singing contest, led by a teenager otherwise known for climate activism (what a high credibility icon!)….youre contorting yourself inside out to search for the REAL nuance. 

Fella, you are lost in the sauce. 

[DixonHur 11376]

42 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Protesting Israel's participation in a silly talent contest does NOT constitute being ANTI-ISRAEL. So many fucking tweets in this thread continue to association protests about Israeli policy as meaning being against Israel as a nation or favoring Hamas.

While I agree with your premise, I think the folks protesting against an Israeli participating in a "silly talent contest" tip-toes the line of being anti-Israel.  

Unless I missed it, this lady didn't say anything negative about Palestine.  She's as innocent as any of us who were against the invasion of Irag/Afghanistan after 9/11, but happen to live in the US. 

How does stopping her from being in a talent show move their agenda forward?  She just wants to sing.

[52-80 19253]

As sure as the sun rises, there is always something fucktarded about young activists on almost every topic they ever wade into. Thats why they attract derision - its just so easy.

The real sad thing is when gullible adults run cover for them. 

[52-80 19253]

2 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

Greta’s parents are anti-fascist, and some folks think that’s a bad thing?

The North Korean government is a Democratic People’s Republic, and some folks think that’s a bad thing?

[Willfully Horn 8049]

6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

The North Korean government is a Democratic People’s Republic, and some folks think that’s a bad thing?

Yeah, I think the norks are run by authoritarians, and their people are fucked over by their government. If you want to pledge fealty to fascists, do so. I’ll assume you get confused by the disconnect between label and fact.

 

Edited to ask if you think antifa is not anti-fascist, and if so, why?

Edited May 10 by Willfully Horn
Spellfucked

[52-80 19253]

10 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Edited to ask if you think antifa is not anti-fascist, and if so, why?

Like the norks not having actual democratic representation of the people, “antifa” has nothing to do with opposing fascism. 

That term is a cudgel used by ugly societal-rejects as an avenue to rebel against normal society. Probably because they hate their parents (you know, the true and original oppressors in their miserable lives). 

[956 Worldwide 34779]

Ana firmly denies the existence and efficacy of Russian disinformation networks and propaganda but super concerned about potential Polish propaganda, we’re at the absolute peak here. 

[Rex Kramer 1367]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

That was NOT your question. This was:

You asked whether Visegrad was a trustworthy news source based on its editorial stance. I answered in the context of that tweet.

 

Protesting Israel's participation in a silly talent contest does NOT constitute being ANTI-ISRAEL. So many fucking tweets in this thread continue to association protests about Israeli policy as meaning being against Israel as a nation or favoring Hamas.

PRO-PALESTINE =/= ANTI-ISRAEL

PRO-PALESTINE =/= PRO-HAMAS

The remainder of my answer explains why I reject that framing of the situation.

In that clip, she doesn't say she is anti-Israel, as the tweet claims. Go back and listen to the clip.

Where the fuck in that headline does it say "anti-Israel"? It says people are protesting the Israeli competitor's participation in a talent contest. That doesn't mean they're against Israel as a nation.

All of that other text you deleted explained the nuance and context that you are apparently not grasping.

Protesting AGAINST AN ACTION by an entity DOES NOT MEAN you are AGAINST THE ESSENCE of that entity.

 

EDIT: Let's make this very clear and simple.

I am against ketchup on steaks. I will protest you pouring ketchup on my steak.

That does not mean I am anti-ketchup. I like ketchup on french fries just fine. 

Blah blah blah red font didn’t read blah blah blah eat a dick. 

[Willfully Horn 8049]

14 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Like the norks not having actual democratic representation of the people, “antifa” has nothing to do with opposing fascism. 

That term is a cudgel used by ugly societal-rejects as an avenue to rebel against normal society. Probably because they hate their parents (you know, the true and original oppressors in their miserable lives). 

Interesting. I can’t deny there are people who use that group for the purpose you describe, but I don’t label the whole for the actions of the few. So, how do you choose when to throw the baby out with the bath water, and when to not do so? 
 

To explain my perspective, I remember active pushback during nutbar-right demonstrations. You know the ones to which I refer, and fascism is a fair description. That has defined my view of the group, generally.

[bolverk 29725]

26 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

While I agree with your premise, I think the folks protesting against an Israeli participating in a "silly talent contest" tip-toes the line of being anti-Israel.  

Unless I missed it, this lady didn't say anything negative about Palestine.  She's as innocent as any of us who were against the invasion of Irag/Afghanistan after 9/11, but happen to live in the US. 

How does stopping her from being in a talent show move their agenda forward?  She just wants to sing.

For fuck's sake, this is so stupid, and I question my sanity for continuing to participate in this conversation. Let me say, YET AGAIN, I think all these protests are counterproductive.

First off, I'll quote 52-80:

Quote

 

Guys, when noted tabloid guardian writes “thousands protest against Israel”, it doesnt mean the people are “anti-israel”.

 

He leaves off a very important part of that sentence: "taking part in Eurovision."

In other words, the protesters are against the Israeli contestant's participation. Does that mean all the protesters are anti-Israel? I'm sure there are some who are opposed to the State of Israel. Is Greta Van Whatever one of them? How the fuck do I know when she's not on film (at least in the clip) saying that she's anti-Israel. Come the fuck on.

Let's look at two countries not allowed to participate in Eurovision?

1. Russia. Does that mean the people who put on Eurovision are anti-Russian, or does it mean they oppose Russia's actions in Ukraine? Am I the only one who can distinguish the difference? For example, I'm not anti-Russian; I am anti-Putin. It's like the fucking Olympic games.
2. Palestine. Even though several European nations recognize the Palestinian State (including this year's host country), Palestine isn't allowed to participate. Here's the story of a Palestinian who tried. Why is Palestine not allowed to participate when other countries like Bosnia, which didn't have full diplomatic recognition, were able to?

Are potential participants from those two countries innocent? Likely, just as you say, the Israeli competitor is also innocent -- I don't doubt that at all. That said, people are often barred from international competitions for whatever stupid shit their government is doing. And, to be clear, I'm not saying the Israeli singer should be barred from competition, and I'm not saying Russia should be allowed to compete.

Just pointing out some potential inconsistencies in these decisions and how it's judgments on their governments' actions that drive the decisions -- and NOT the countries themselves. I would like to know, however, why Palestine hasn't ever been allowed to compete.

But the biggest WTF of all is why the hell is Australia allowed to participate in a European talent contest? If anything, that should be drawing the most scrutiny.

 

Quote

(Will you extend this interpretive generosity towards people protesting against immigration, for example?)

Absolutely. Suppose they can give a logical rationale for their opposition to immigration that isn't based on race/religion. In that case, I have to take them at their word that they aren't racists, xenophobes, or religious fanatics. I still might disagree with their stance, but I'm not going to come into a thread and tell the board I wish cops would break up their protests and start cracking skulls.

[DixonHur 11376]

59 minutes ago, bolverk said:

For fuck's sake, this is so stupid, and I question my sanity

I question your sanity too.  

I don't recall you asking my opinion as to whether Russians or Palestinians should be allowed to participate in Eurovision.  But the answer would have been Russia yes, Palestine no... because it's not in Europe.  Frankly, I don't think Israel should be in for the same reason, but my understanding is that Eurovision is a TV show not a government agency so it can choose whoever the fuck they want to be part of it.

My point is that I don't think that decision should be based on how popular the contestant's home country is in a given year.  Pick the countries who can participate and stick with it.  A singing competition has fuck all to do with the politics of a person's home country.

If you can't see that, then you've got other issues to deal with.

[bolverk 29725]

3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I question your sanity too.  

I don't recall you asking my opinion as to whether Russians or Palestinians should be allowed to participate in Eurovision.  But the answer would have been Russia yes, Palestine no... because it's not in Europe.  Frankly, I don't think Israel should be in for the same reason, but my understanding is that Eurovision is a TV show not a government agency so it can choose whoever the fuck they want to be part of it.

My point is that I don't think that decision should be based on how popular the contestant's home country is in a given year.  Pick the countries who can participate and stick with it.  A singing competition has fuck all to do with the politics of a person's home country.

If you can't see that, then you've got other issues to deal with.

Yes, yes, and yes.

Why the fuck is Israel or Australia in a fucking European talent contest? Why is Russia, a European country, out, while Israel, a Levantine country, in? If a Levantine country is in, why isn't Palestine? If they're inviting Australia, then where the fuck is New Zealand or Papua New Guinea? And what's with the discrimination against Canada and the US?

Look, man, I'm not the one who brought Greta Tunaburger's protest into this bigger debate. I'm also not the one who's accusing her of being anti-Israel over protests in a fucking song contest. There was a ridiculous turd that was dropped into this swirling toilet. and that turd was the implication that you can't protest the Israeli government's actions without also being anti-Israel (i.e., anti-semite).

Since then, I've been holding onto the mast, standing my ground, and riding this turd surf like the Tidy Bowl Man on his raft.

[PRONG HORN 3159]

57 minutes ago, bolverk said:

There was a ridiculous turd that was dropped into this swirling toilet. and that turd was the implication that you can't protest the Israeli government's actions without also being anti-Israel (i.e., anti-semite).

Since then, I've been holding onto the mast, standing my ground, and riding this turd surf like the Tidy Bowl Man on his raft.

 

 

The turd was dropped by the protestors themselves.  They've provided the ambiguity in their message by who they've allowed to stand with them.  The things spoken aloud, on signs, posters, spray painted, etc. has been a mix of turd and "legit" protest from the start.  If protestors want to be seen in a certain light, they should avoid all the hate that's taken over these encampments and marches.  

 

 

[DixonHur 11376]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Yes, yes, and yes.

Why the fuck is Israel or Australia in a fucking European talent contest? Why is Russia, a European country, out, while Israel, a Levantine country, in? If a Levantine country is in, why isn't Palestine? If they're inviting Australia, then where the fuck is New Zealand or Papua New Guinea? And what's with the discrimination against Canada and the US?

Look, man, I'm not the one who brought Greta Tunaburger's protest into this bigger debate. I'm also not the one who's accusing her of being anti-Israel over protests in a fucking song contest. There was a ridiculous turd that was dropped into this swirling toilet. and that turd was the implication that you can't protest the Israeli government's actions without also being anti-Israel (i.e., anti-semite).

Since then, I've been holding onto the mast, standing my ground, and riding this turd surf like the Tidy Bowl Man on his raft.

Listen, I think we agree on at least 95% of this.  I don't think protesting Israel's response to 10/7 is necessarily anti-Israel or anti-Semitic, but I don't like the idea of people protesting the participation of a person in a talent competition just because they are from Israel.  

We can't choose the country were born into any more than we can choose our race.

I don't think Greta Tunaburger (love the play on her name, FWIW) is anti-Israel or anti-Semitic, but I think she is misguided in this instance.

Edited May 11 by DixonHur
Can to can't

[closetohumping 17473]

https://www.kut.org/crime-justice/2024-05-10/ut-austin-campus-protest-gaza-professor-arrested-rich-heyman-fired

[DixonHur 11376]

Obviously I don't know the details, but if the article is taken at face value, it's not a good look for UT, IMO.

[Hank_Hill 18896]

“State issued bike bell”

[956 Worldwide 34779]

Y’all do understand that “countries” don’t enter Eurovision, certain broadcasters that are either full or associate members of the European Broadcasting Union enter Eurovision? Start there and then you can ask the questions about “who gets to play” more in a more productive way. 
 

The confluence of the world’s single stupidest competition and the Israel war is making otherwise smart people lose the plot.

And Bolverk, I don’t know what point you’re trying to make but “protesting the participation of an Israeli network as a sign of disapproval of the broadcasting state of Israel” is a far more coherent and ethically sound proposition than “protesting the inclusion of this specific Israeli person.” I don’t think you’re supporting the protesters like you think you are here. 

[956 Worldwide 34779]

Anyway, the protestors do not like her because she’s Israeli, I don’t like her because she sang in occupied Crimea in 2016. We are not the same.