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Argument Over Parking Spot Turns Deadly in Florida

Vic Mackey

By Vic Mackey
in Daily Texan

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Longhornfan1024

Longhornfan1024 1707

Posted
Posted (edited)

Normally I follow the "don't start no shit, won't be no shit" philosophy, but viewing the video, (1) the shooter would have appeared to the victim to be harassing and possibly assaulting his wife and (2) when he pulled his gun he could have told the guy to back off instead of just shooting him.  The shooter seems to be a pussy just looking to start something and be the big man who gets to kill someone and he should be in jail.  

Edited by Longhornfan1024
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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

oh boy...here we go.

my .02, guy killed a man because he got punked for being a punk. thats murder/manslaughter/whatever, not stand your ground.

He apparently has bitched at other people for parking in that spot too. Seems like he's clearly a piece of shit who was looking for an opportunity to kill someone.

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TornACL

TornACL 7738

Posted
Posted

So is this the kind of incident that law was written to address? Or was it a poorly written law?

These stupid uptights are going to escalate trivial bullshit like handicapped parking spots, because they know they have their ace in the hole sitting in their holster. I would prefer another kind of stand your ground law. No assault charges if you act like an asshole and you get your ass kicked as a result of it.

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Js1

Js1 85659

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

This is fucking ridiculous. There are so many gun nuts out there just itching for the opportunity to shoot and kill someone for any reason whatsoever. 

Send them all the Florida, wall it off, and they'll just end up killing each other over parking spots and shoulder checks.

Win/win.

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irishtexan

irishtexan 11530

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Smax said:

don't start no shit wont be no shit

and don't park in a handicap spot unless you're handicapped 

 

How about you mind your own fucking business instead of appointing yourself the parking police?

The shooter killed that man in front of his son, who doesn't look to be more than 5 years old. That kid's gonna Inigo Montoya the shooter one day.

Edited by irishtexan
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Smax

Smax 3800

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

makes sense...but being killed for it is a crime. there is no gray area here.

Not in florida

 

6 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Shooter started it, though.

 

Not in mine or floridas laws eyes

unauthorized parking in a handicap space is illegal

yelling at someone in said parking space is not illegal

physically assaulting someone for yelling is illegal

defending oneself under the state stand your ground law is not illegal

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17831

Posted
Posted

This a perfect example of the perverse incentives that arise from "stand your ground."  It incentivized the weapon owner to escalate to the point of shooting someone.  Everyone here could've walked away and no harm except to pride.  Instead, we have an extrajudicial death sentence for the crime of parking in a handicapped space.  Kids without a father not because he killed someone, but because he's an asshole who parked in the wrong spot and some billy-bad-ass decided to kill him for it.  

Treyvon Martin was standing his ground when some asshole with a long rap sheet decided to start a fight with him and the boy wound up dead.  

Insanity.

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Felix

Felix 607

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Constant said:

I would be charging the pussy on the ground with Murder. There was nothing life threatening about that situation. 

I agree with you, but it's pretty fucking hilarious coming from a cop.

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Brock Sampson

Brock Sampson 289

Posted
Posted (edited)

Very sad all around.  Would the father still be alive if he had not shoved the guy yelling to the ground?  Why couldn't the white guy just call the police and report an assault?  This is a very grey area.  If he had tried to get back up and the black guy charges at him again, then I think it's Stand Your Ground for sure.  But it seemed like he was just shoving him away.  I dunno.  

I see people that do shit to piss me off all the time but you just don't know who is armed and crazy anymore.  It's better to just call the cops.  

Edited by Brock Sampson
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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17831

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Brock Sampson said:

Very sad all around.  Would the father still be alive if he had not shoved the guy yelling to the ground?  Why couldn't the white guy just call the police and report an assault?  This is a very grey area.  If he had tried to get back up and the black guy charges at him again, then I think it's Stand Your Ground for sure.  But it seemed like he was just shoving him away.  I dunno.  

I see people that do shit to piss me off all the time but you just don't know who is armed and crazy anymore.  It's better to just call the cops.  

This is good practical advice, but it would be good without "stand your ground" as well.  The only difference is the guy who escalated the situation would be punished.  Here, he skates and we're left to wonder, "What if he approaches me in a parking lot and he gets scared?"  He's a killer who was looking for shit to start.  He'll do it again because he's been rewarded for it.

 

Edited by Chad Fuck
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aggie08

aggie08 21571

Posted
Posted

The expression on the black reporter, Zachary Kiesch's, face when it immediately cuts to him after the Sheriff says, "He had to shoot to defend himself.  Those are the facts, and that's the law." is so so good.  Unreal that even incontrovertible video evidence of a shooting a dude who's clearly backing away from a drawn gun doesn't make a shit. 

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GabrielsHorn

GabrielsHorn 2190

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, SDG said:

Police aren’t pursuing charges, but the video says the prosecutor has the case so time will tell.

Yup, hopefully they do charge the guy. He's threatened other people that he would shoot them too (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/07/21/hes-accused-of-killing-someone-in-a-parking-spot-dispute-authorities-say-he-was-standing-his-ground/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.389a9a5f91de).

 

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riloh05

riloh05 107

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

shooter was not being approached a second time for a further beat down. This is murder. 

i agree its murder. but i am also sick of the over charging-- lets go with manslaughter or the like and get this asshole locked up.

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9856

Posted
Posted

How many people in Austin have we seen die from hitting their head on the pavement. 

First problem was entitled asshole parking in a HC space because he can't be bothered.  Second the wife should have stayed in the car or gone to a proper parking space.

Husband assaults the man, could have caused his death.  Man with gun could have let it go and backed the assaulter away, called the police and have him arrested for assault.

Everyone was wrong, but parking and the physical assault ended up with bad consequences. 

https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-dies-after-being-shoved-in-downtown-austin/1049817566

Husband defends wife's honor and kills a man with a push outside of Dogwood.

 

It sucks someone died over such a trivial thing.  Equal blame around.  There was no need to violently assault the man (in front of his kids), nor was there a need to shoot the man, but once he did all bets were off.  He found his Huckleberry. 

Don't put hands on people, and mind yo business.

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GabrielsHorn

GabrielsHorn 2190

Posted
Posted (edited)

It also is neglecting that the shove came after he drew customers out of the store from being so unruly, and that he had threatened to shoot someone once before. He's a piece of shit that should be in jail. 

e: And based on previous reports, the guy had been known to assault/harass others at the same place. He was looking for a fight. 

Edited by GabrielsHorn
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Bacon Gayfield

Bacon Gayfield 37

Posted
Posted

There's about a million posts about douchebag parkers on the shag/surly regarding how disgusting and infuriating it is when non-handicap people park in handicap spots. Now suddenly, when a black couple does it, and you add in some assault on a "white male gun nut", suddenly you people take the side of the douchebags, because politics. Never waste a "tragedy"!

You leftists are a reprehensible bunch. Just foul.

You DO NOT park in handicap spots when you're not handicapped. 

You DO NOT assault people. 

If he had not assaulted the man, he wouldn't be dead.

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Newdoc

Newdoc 3457

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, GabrielsHorn said:

And based on previous reports, the guy had been known to assault/harass others at the same place. He was looking for a fight. 

So maybe he gets charged with something on the criminal side. Civil suit will ruin this guy. He will be ponying up for defense.  And if he has CHL insurance, the company will run away. This won't fit their "defense" criteria even though somehow it does in Florida. But go figure, Florida.

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Newdoc

Newdoc 3457

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Bacon Gayfield said:

If he had not assaulted the man, he wouldn't be dead.

If a big pussy wouldn't have pulled the trigger, he wouldn't be dead. And I'm no where "left" on this board.  I have my CHL and it's been reinforced by my insurance carrier to de-escalate and move away from a violent situation if possible.  Pretty much the opposite of what the shooter did.

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aggie08

aggie08 21571

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Bacon Gayfield said:

There's about a million posts about douchebag parkers on the shag/surly regarding how disgusting and infuriating it is when non-handicap people park in handicap spots. Now suddenly, when a black couple does it, and you add in some assault on a "white male gun nut", suddenly you people take the side of the douchebags, because politics. Never waste a "tragedy"!

You leftists are a reprehensible bunch. Just foul.

You DO NOT park in handicap spots when you're not handicapped. 

You DO NOT assault people. 

If he had not assaulted the man, he wouldn't be dead.

Cool.  So ticket him for a parking violation and charge him with assault.  I think everyone would be perfectly fine with that.  Neither of those crimes justifies being murdered in front of your son as you're clearly backing away from a drawn weapon.

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Steamboat1874

Steamboat1874 4133

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Bacon Gayfield said:

There's about a million posts about douchebag parkers on the shag/surly regarding how disgusting and infuriating it is when non-handicap people park in handicap spots. Now suddenly, when a black couple does it, and you add in some assault on a "white male gun nut", suddenly you people take the side of the douchebags, because politics. Never waste a "tragedy"!

You leftists are a reprehensible bunch. Just foul.

You DO NOT park in handicap spots when you're not handicapped. 

You DO NOT assault people. 

If he had not assaulted the man, he wouldn't be dead.

Wow....just wow.

If the dipshit was not wearing a gun the guy would not be dead either.

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DanRydell

DanRydell 799

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Bacon Gayfield said:

There's about a million posts about douchebag parkers on the shag/surly regarding how disgusting and infuriating it is when non-handicap people park in handicap spots. Now suddenly, when a black couple does it, and you add in some assault on a "white male gun nut", suddenly you people take the side of the douchebags, because politics. Never waste a "tragedy"!

You leftists are a reprehensible bunch. Just foul.

You DO NOT park in handicap spots when you're not handicapped. 

You DO NOT assault people. 

If he had not assaulted the man, he wouldn't be dead.

One can think someone is a douchebag and yet not think they should be murdered. 

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26438

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

If a big pussy wouldn't have pulled the trigger, he wouldn't be dead. And I'm no where "left" on this board.  I have my CHL and it's been reinforced by my insurance carrier to de-escalate and move away from a violent situation if possible.  Pretty much the opposite of what the shooter did.

Yup. Stand Your Ground. Deescalate the situation. Get the police involved. If the guy charges him again after he pulls his gun, it's a different story. 

Lock this dude up.

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riloh05

riloh05 107

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Bacon Gayfield said:

There's about a million posts about douchebag parkers on the shag/surly regarding how disgusting and infuriating it is when non-handicap people park in handicap spots. Now suddenly, when a black couple does it, and you add in some assault on a "white male gun nut", suddenly you people take the side of the douchebags, because politics. Never waste a "tragedy"!

You leftists are a reprehensible bunch. Just foul.

You DO NOT park in handicap spots when you're not handicapped. 

You DO NOT assault people. 

If he had not assaulted the man, he wouldn't be dead.

i have disdain for the left...i have disdain for the right...i also have disdain for dumbass opinions like this. be better and leave your politics out of it.

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aggie08

aggie08 21571

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Wow....just wow.

If the dipshit was not wearing a gun the guy would not be dead either.

Pulling the gun doesn't bother me (though, there is the psychological element of would he have even approached the car had he not had that protection).  If you're about to get your ass kicked, go for it, draw your weapon.  But proceeding to pull the trigger after the assailant does exactly what you'd expect--stops and backs away--is an entirely different animal and completely fucked up.  This dude has been wanting to shoot someone for a long, long time.

Edited by aggie08
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Carl Spackler

Carl Spackler 3506

Posted
Posted (edited)

Plenty of blame to go around here. 

1.  Don't park in a handicapped spot.  It certainly doesn't justify a death, but it's worth noting that none of this happens if the decedent parks in a non-handicapped spot.  I'll just leave it at that.

2.  That was a pretty hard shove/assault by the decedent.  He had no right to do that.  His wife/girlfriend was not being physically assaulted by the white dude.  If the situation had played out properly, the shooter would have simply called the cops and the decedent would have been arrested for assault.

3.  Decedent seemed to be backing away at the time the first shot was fired, so I question whether this is an appropriate application of the "stand your ground" law.  The relevant text is: 

A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

So the question is whether the shooter reasonably believed that using deadly force was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself.  Granted, he had just gotten violently knocked to the ground.  However, the decedent was not approaching him while on the ground (in fact, the video indicates he started to back up once he saw the shooter draw his firearm), so I have a hard time buying that the shooter reasonably believed he was in danger of imminent death or great bodily harm at the time he used deadly force.  Did the shooter have the right to draw his weapon to prevent further violence to himself?  Yes.  Did he have a right to shoot?  Based on what I've seen to date, I don't think so.

But, like I said, plenty of blame to go around for everyone.  It's a very sad situation.

 

Edited by Carl Spackler
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Errestaurants

Errestaurants 2570

Posted
Posted

There is a thread on TexasBowHunter and the consensus by far is murder. That place is about as pro gun/LTC there can be.  I'm super pro gun/ gun rights but damn It's scary knowing how many keyboard tough guys are out there carrying pistols ready to whip out their gun. Shooter should of minded his own business other guy should of got between the shooter and his girl and handled it from there and de-escalate but I don't think it would of mattered. Badass old man was ready to be Sheriff, Judge and Jury. 

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

Posted
Posted

Plenty of blame to go around, like don't shove someone which apparently is equally as bad as executing a guy in front of his girlfriend and child. Give me a fucking break.

I think everyone here would agree that it's not a smart move to shove someone in that situation, that in no fucking way comes even close to justifying being shot dead, pull your heads out of your asses.

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