Presumed Innocent - AppleTV, June 12, Jake Gyllenhaal, Ruth Negga

[Red Five 41590]

Little too Scooby Doo at the end.

[CurlyDumps 4617]

"I knew it was you because duh, who else, couldn't have been a random intruder" was an odd leap to make.

Edited July 24 by CurlyDumps

[C-Man 27684]

Love the original Harrison Ford/Raul Julia movie -- can't remember if I read the book in HS or not. Man, Greta Schacchi was hot.

Does the TV series storyline follow the book? Is the ending the same?

[Texzilla588 772]

Love the original Harrison Ford/Raul Julia movie -- can't remember if I read the book in HS or not. Man, Greta Schacchi was hot.
Does the TV series storyline follow the book? Is the ending the same?

No need to read the thread. It is 100% exactly the same. So really no need to watch.

[Red Five 41590]

10 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

 

  Hide contents

"I knew it was you because duh, who else, couldn't have been a random intruder" was an odd leap to make.

 

Spoiler

I guess he waited until the trial was over to say "Oh and btw, I know it was you. That's why I did the completely obvious normal thing, and I tied her up after finding her dead body. To protect you. Because I was 100% sure it was my wife who committed the terrible violent murder."

Then the daughter sneaks up, "Muahaha, you just thought it was her! It was me all along!". Terrible ending, the more I think about it.

 

[HouTex 1912]

5 hours ago, C-Man said:

Love the original Harrison Ford/Raul Julia movie -- can't remember if I read the book in HS or not. Man, Greta Schacchi was hot.

Does the TV series storyline follow the book? Is the ending the same?

No and no.  It’s worth watching.  Go for it. 

[Genco 3053]

5 hours ago, C-Man said:

Love the original Harrison Ford/Raul Julia movie -- can't remember if I read the book in HS or not. Man, Greta Schacchi was hot.

Does the TV series storyline follow the book? Is the ending the same?

The series is fucking terrible.

Greta Scacchi is not walking through that door.

The last 5 minutes is more regarded than the sex scene in The Other Sister.

[HouTex 1912]

1 minute ago, Genco said:

The series is fucking terrible.

Greta Scacchi is not walking through that door.

The last 5 minutes is more regarded than the sex scene in The Other Sister.

C’mon, it’s not that bad.  I don’t regret watching it.  I will say that Sandy Stern was missed.  He made the movie.  

[billfromlaketravis 11783]

On 7/23/2024 at 9:18 PM, Bbonds said:

Something is up Apple TV. It was showing the final episode drops tomorrow but I just watched it. You guys will enjoy the ending.

Edited July 25 by billfromlaketravis

[billfromlaketravis 11783]

Ruth Negga is terrifying. Who rides a stationary bike in the dark, raw dog without music or TV? 

[bschoolprof 6335]

20 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

so he just had the rope on him?

and his car still was clean of any evidence?

ok. 

And no DNA of any kind on the rope or fingerprints in the blood?  ok.  

And what did tying her up really accomplish?  

And how many family members were at/near her house that night?  

The movie was a million times better than this.  

[billfromlaketravis 11783]

Solid but they Apple’d it up.

Spoiler

- So a privileged Gen Z teenage goes from pouting in her poorly lit room to brutally murdering her father’s mistress. WTF? I mean give us some kind of arc. Maybe she’s getting in fights at school or something. Anything. They had to tweak the movie’s twist, but there’s a correct way to do it. 
 

- Dis they waste Negga? Her character is horribly unlikeable, and she’s not the killer. 

- I don’t think they let Jake G play it dark enough. He’s an asshole throughout the series, but he’s deeply concerned about other people thinking he’s a good guy. Just let him go full fucking Nightcrawler. 

- How did Malto lose? He was better than Rusty throughout the trial and totally outclassed him in the closing arguments. I guess the handsome lawyer couldn’t have done it defense won out?

- Nico’s accent what was that? Slightly regarded lisp tinged with resting bitchiness? It’s funny I think it mostly worked given the actor’s appearance.

- The movie was much better.  Unquestionably Raul Julia’s best part and performance. 

 

Edited July 25 by billfromlaketravis

[Helobious 9754]

I’d give the series a 7/10. I liked it

[Texzilla588 772]

Solid but they Apple’d it up.
Spoiler

- So a privileged Gen Z teenage goes from pouting in her poorly lit room to brutally murdering her father’s mistress. WTF? I mean give us some kind of arc. Maybe she’s getting in fights at school or something. Anything. They had to tweak the movie’s twist, but there’s a correct way to do it. 
 
- Dis they waste Negga? Her character is horribly unlikeable, and she’s not the killer. 
- I don’t think they let Jake G play it dark enough. He’s an asshole throughout the series, but he’s deeply concerned about other people thinking he’s a good guy. Just let him go full fucking Nightcrawler. 
- How did Malto lose? He was better than Rusty throughout the trial and totally outclassed him in the closing arguments. I guess the handsome lawyer couldn’t have done it defense won out?
- Nico’s accent what was that? Slightly regarded lisp tinged with resting bitchiness? It’s funny I think it mostly worked given the actor’s appearance.
- The movie was much better.  Unquestionably Raul Julia’s best part and performance. 

 

The whole family are sociopaths. Does the son know? How do they stay together?

How do the cops not investigate the wife after they learn Rusty had a long obsesssive affair with his mistress.. no way that car was clean after splitting a head with that poker. “Wiping down” doesn’t clean it of blood; luminol would have lit up.

And Carolyn just happened to have a huge spool of nylon rope?

[CurlyDumps 4617]

And let's be honest, Carolyn kinda maybe a tad wee bit deserved it. Telling the daughter about the pregnancy before the dad? That's some emotional terrorism. 

[Helobious 9754]

The closing arguments were the best part of the show imo. Skaasgard can really act. 

[aggie08 21732]

4 hours ago, Texzilla588 said:

no way that car was clean after splitting a head with that poker. “Wiping down” doesn’t clean it of blood; luminol would have lit up.

She took her mom's car. I'm guessing they only searched his. I guess him thinking quickly was to sanitize her house (having no idea what "his wife" did or didn't touch), find some rope, and try to frame a guy in prison. Makes sense.

3 of the 4 members of the family were at her house that night. One of them went twice. Maybe time to put an alert on the garage door opening.

The biggest stretch was the jury coming back with not guilty, especially that quickly. He got his ass kicked in court and was the only logical suspect.

[4th and 5 4995]

On 7/17/2024 at 9:37 PM, Texzilla588 said:

I’d like an opinion from the barristers here. How realistic were the two court scenes I found flawed as a layman? Would the judge have allowed the exchanges between her son and Rusty? “You killed my mother !” Over and over? And the final testimony had so much speculation, commentary, etc I thought the judge would step in.

NOrmally an exchange like that would have never happened because "The Rule" would have been invoked and the kid would not have been in the courtroom, along with a whole lot of other people.

On 7/24/2024 at 12:05 AM, Texzilla588 said:

So just finished it. Somewhat disappointed. Who leaves a side door open in Chicago?

Anyway, a question for the barristers. In case of acquittal, would Rusty be disbarred for the actions he took when he headed the investigation of concealing and withholding evidence and information?

With the acquittal and nothing more, probably not. However, if the state could prove - at the time - he believed his wife did it (even if wrong) or he knew his daughter did it, then definitely yes

12 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

And no DNA of any kind on the rope or fingerprints in the blood?  ok.  

And what did tying her up really accomplish?  

And how many family members were at/near her house that night?  

The movie was a million times better than this.  

made it look like the bad guy did it

12 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Solid but they Apple’d it up.

  Hide contents

- So a privileged Gen Z teenage goes from pouting in her poorly lit room to brutally murdering her father’s mistress. WTF? I mean give us some kind of arc. Maybe she’s getting in fights at school or something. Anything. They had to tweak the movie’s twist, but there’s a correct way to do it. 
 

- Dis they waste Negga? Her character is horribly unlikeable, and she’s not the killer. 

- I don’t think they let Jake G play it dark enough. He’s an asshole throughout the series, but he’s deeply concerned about other people thinking he’s a good guy. Just let him go full fucking Nightcrawler. 

- How did Malto lose? He was better than Rusty throughout the trial and totally outclassed him in the closing arguments. I guess the handsome lawyer couldn’t have done it defense won out?

- Nico’s accent what was that? Slightly regarded lisp tinged with resting bitchiness? It’s funny I think it mostly worked given the actor’s appearance.

- The movie was much better.  Unquestionably Raul Julia’s best part and performance. 

 

I think they cast people to be unlikeable.

Negga had to be unlikeable so Rusty didn't seem so unlikeable. I mean, who wouldn't have had an affair if that was your wife?

Nico literally drove my wife and I crazy. But it worked, and it was perfect for fucking with Molto.

Molto lost because there was no biological evidence, and damn near anyone involved could have killed her. 

 

 

Bill Camp and Peter Saarsgard were top notch.

[ChickenSandwich 9918]

Having never seen the movie or read the book, the only viable candidate was the wife (besides Rusty because he lost that case).

Her actions/reactions made no sense unless she killed the mistress to keep her husband/family. Explains why she didn’t leave. She saw the cover up and trial as signs of love. She told him about the bartender to get a reaction, and her ice cold tone with the lawyers in private discussing “how she should look/feel” made her seem capable.

Otherwise the show gave you zero other options as to a killer besides Rusty, besides making you think the other characters were dumb or bad people of course.

[billfromlaketravis 11783]

I would strongly suggest the movie to everyone in the thread. It’s well worth $3.99.

Strong Harrison Ford performance, and Raul Julia gives the best performance of his career. Lots of good supporting performances as well. It outclasses the show in every way imaginable. 

[Texzilla588 772]

I think they cast people to be unlikeable.
Negga had to be unlikeable so Rusty didn't seem so unlikeable. I mean, who wouldn't have had an affair if that was your wife?
Nico literally drove my wife and I crazy. But it worked, and it was perfect for fucking with Molto.
Molto lost because there was no biological evidence, and damn near anyone involved could have killed her. 
 
 
Bill Camp and Peter Saarsgard were top notch.

They only took his car. I thought at the time that was dumb police work. And once the affair came out the police would have looked to either eliminate or include the wife as a suspect. Sloppy writing f all around.

Wife called the daughter out as the murderer after that first scene where she got in bed with Rusty to talk about the trial. If b didn’t do it then I think she would have suspected Rusty and at the least sent him to stay in the cabana.

They showed the family all happy at the end. A murderer daughter, a likely fucked up son, a cheating lying husband, and a pissed off wife.

I think his actions of withholding evidence, attempted bribery of the dude in prison, the hiding of information, threatening others like the ME, would get him disbarred. Bye to the spooky grey house.

[bschoolprof 6335]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I would strongly suggest the movie to everyone in the thread. It’s well worth $3.99.

Strong Harrison Ford performance, and Raul Julia gives the best performance of his career. Lots of good supporting performances as well. It outclasses the show in every way imaginable. 

Yes - the movie was a far better, far shorter, and with a much better and more effective twist. This felt like a typical hollywood remake/reboot that got us to where we are today with streaming and movies.  

[HouTex 1912]

6 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Yes - the movie was a far better, far shorter, and with a much better and more effective twist. This felt like a typical hollywood remake/reboot that got us to where we are today with streaming and movies.  

Yep.  The movie followed the book on key plot points.  Also, a key plot point in the movie was that Carolyn could not conceive.  Her tubes were tied.  So why was spermicide found inside her?  The ME was hammered over that in the movie because he missed it during the autopsy.  Turns out that Barbara saved the fluids when she removed her diaphragm and she used spermicide.  Does anyone under 45 even know what a diaphragm is?  

[utxmike05 1833]

Solid fukin series.  Great acting all around.  Closing arguments killed it.  Molto was just grasping for straws with nothing solid to work with and he reeked of jealousy towards Rusty.  Smart jury.  Never saw the movie, and don't care if they changed things...that's kinda the point.  Why remake with something with exactly the same outcome.

Wife nailed her performance in the garage with Rusty and daughter. 

By the 6th episode I had guessed the killer, but I didn't expect the other part of who tied her up.  Crazy the whole time Rusty how she was murdered and was secretly trying to divert all attention away from who he thought was the murderer.  That's why he sat on a lot of evidence / information the first 48 hrs.

I suspected lots of people from Molto to the ex-husband/kid, but I figured it had to be someone we hadn't seen much spotlight on.

I think the ending was to show they aren't really happy, but trying to act like it....those dark secrets will tear any family up eventually.  That daughter is going to need help eventually....how did she sit in the courtroom the whole time knowing her dad could take the fall for her.

Season 2 is a go and it will be a different case.  I imagine it will be an entire new cast / plot.

 

[Helobious 9754]

26 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Yes - the movie was a far better, far shorter, and with a much better and more effective twist. This felt like a typical hollywood remake/reboot that got us to where we are today with streaming and movies.  

Really? The “twist” in the movie sounds super obvious and uncreative to me. Jealous wife kills mistress. Wow. Shocking. I highly doubt the movie would resonate at all with the audiences of today. Especially with how popular true crime has gotten.

[rage-a-holic 4707]

23 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Really? The “twist” in the movie sounds super obvious and uncreative to me. Jealous wife kills mistress. Wow. Shocking. I highly doubt the movie would resonate at all with the audiences of today. Especially with how popular true crime has gotten.

Breaking News: Presumed Innocent (1990) now the #1 streaming movie on Netflix

[Doc Sam Beckett 5854]

I'm about to start the final episode, but put me on that jury and I'm 100% convicting Rusty for two reasons. First, he's got a great head of hair, and should be punished for that. More importantly, he wears a pinky ring. 

[bschoolprof 6335]

44 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Really? The “twist” in the movie sounds super obvious and uncreative to me. Jealous wife kills mistress. Wow. Shocking. I highly doubt the movie would resonate at all with the audiences of today. Especially with how popular true crime has gotten.

The way it was handled, and its interaction with the medical evidence, was far better. The wife had far less screen time in the movie (obviously).  

The twist in the apple show was silly.  

[HouTex 1912]

17 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

The way it was handled, and its interaction with the medical evidence, was far better. The wife had far less screen time in the movie (obviously).  

The twist in the apple show was silly.  

Another big difference in the movie is that the prosecution was not able to introduce evidence of Rusty’s affair with Carolyn, thus no motive.  No motive was among the reasons that Judge Lyttle dismissed the case after the state rested.  

[CurlyDumps 4617]

If a character has to explain the twist, that's never a good sign. 

[BrazilHorn 6785]

Jake G is worst lawyer in history. Just so dumb. 

[wutang75 459]

Totally forgot the wife in the movie is Bonnie Bedelia.

[wutang75 459]

I would strongly suggest the movie to everyone in the thread. It’s well worth $3.99.
Strong Harrison Ford performance, and Raul Julia gives the best performance of his career. Lots of good supporting performances as well. It outclasses the show in every way imaginable. 

Wait a goddamn Addams Family Values minute….

[ChickenSandwich 9918]

[Sbbruin 22081]

22 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

The way it was handled, and its interaction with the medical evidence, was far better. The wife had far less screen time in the movie (obviously).  

The twist in the apple show was silly.  

I never saw the movie, and as it was I would have far preferred it to be 

Spoiler

the wife instead of the daughter.  Would have explained why she hadn't told him to fuck off and split way earlier.  But I guess they had to change it up.

 

[billfromlaketravis 11783]

9 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Yeah, unfortunately he didn’t get offered good roles or couldn’t pick a good script to save his life. Presumed Innocent let how show his Broadway acting chops. 

[Texzilla588 772]

Wonder if S2 will be same folks with same case, or new case same folks, or all new case new folks. Do Rusty and Raymond open a defense firm? How would you like crazy Rusty defending your case?

[CurlyDumps 4617]

Hopefully it's the Tommy Malto show with a new case. Contuining the Sabitch wankery would be a terrible choice.

[ChickenSandwich 9918]

2 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

Hopefully it's the Tommy Malto show with a new case. Contuining the Sabitch wankery would be a terrible choice.

Daughter gets arrested for murder at college. Rusty to the rescue/defense. 

[bschoolprof 6335]

2 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

Hopefully it's the Tommy Malto show with a new case. Contuining the Sabitch wankery would be a terrible choice.

Season 2 is Tommy Malto holed up with his cat cheering on football alone?  And every 10 minutes or so, Della Guardia pops in to ask "you ok Tommy?? What's with you anyway?" with his horribly awkward accent and affect.  

I'm in.  If they make it a sitcom.  

[4th&Five 41900]

That dude caring about football was more unrealistic than anything else in the series to me. 

[Texzilla588 772]

I’d rather see Raymond and Lorraine move to Florida with murderous next door neighbors

[CurlyDumps 4617]

2 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

Season 2 is Tommy Malto holed up with his cat cheering on football alone?  And every 10 minutes or so, Della Guardia pops in to ask "you ok Tommy?? What's with you anyway?" with his horribly awkward accent and affect.  

I'm in.  If they make it a sitcom.  

With him and his cat in matching Caleb Williams jerseys.

[mr. sunshine 2852]

2 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

And every 10 minutes or so, Della Guardia pops in to ask "you ok Tommy?? What's with you anyway?" with his horribly awkward accent and affect.  

I kind of dug it. You ever meet any big city DAs? Peacocks got nothing on them

[wutang75 459]

Daughter gets arrested for murder at college. Rusty to the rescue/defense. 

The should go full Mr Brooks mode with the daughter.

[lateshow 1318]

On 7/27/2024 at 1:27 PM, bschoolprof said:

Season 2 is Tommy Malto holed up with his cat cheering on football alone?  And every 10 minutes or so, Della Guardia pops in to ask "you ok Tommy?? What's with you anyway?" with his horribly awkward accent and affect.  

I'm in.  If they make it a sitcom.  

Make them neighbors, so every time Della Guardia pops his head in, que laugh track. Hijinks ensue. 

[BrazilHorn 6785]

I have zero interest in a second season. Not a single character i give a shit about. 
 

with that said:
 

If they do one they need to have psychiatrist murdered by mother as secret of daughter killing DA comes out and Dr. threatens to report it. 

[billfromlaketravis 11783]

16 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

I have zero interest in a second season. Not a single character i give a shit about. 
 

with that said:
 

If they do one they need to have psychiatrist murdered by mother as secret of daughter killing DA comes out and Dr. threatens to report it. 

The Watch made a pretty compelling case for a Tommy Molto vehicle for Season 2 with Nico and Ray.

They correctly pointed out the Savage family was a cancer, and it’s a better show without them in it. 

[utxmike05 1833]

31 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

I have zero interest in a second season. Not a single character i give a shit about. 
 

with that said:
 

If they do one they need to have psychiatrist murdered by mother as secret of daughter killing DA comes out and Dr. threatens to report it. 

K

[huge 3824]

On 7/25/2024 at 1:49 PM, rage-a-holic said:

Breaking News: Presumed Innocent (1990) now the #1 streaming movie on Netflix

except that it isn't offered on Netflix