The Americans (FX)

[Native Horn 3504]

^^^ Yep, my thoughts too.  I think Oleg will turn out to be OK (not that we'll ever know, dammit).

[Native Horn 3504]

35 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

http://www.vulture.com/2018/05/the-americans-series-finale-oral-history.html

 

Great interviews with the cast on the finale.

Man, this is a great link.  Lot of background on the shooting of the finale.

[Txzen 498]

10 hours ago, SpiralOut said:

Honestly, I think the show went out being true to itself.  It was never about Russia v. USA or being spies or any of that stuff.  It was about two married people and their family. 

They lost everything and only have each other. 

The garage sequence and the train sequence are some of the best television I've ever seen.  Flat out.  And poor fucking Stan.  As if his life wasn't blown up enough Philip just drops that last poison pill on him about Renee. 

Gonna miss this show.  Had the balls to slow-burn itself all the way to the end.  Understood how to build its characters and stay true to them and how to keep the story about them. 

Exactly right. The show was at it's core, about a marriage. The purgatory of living the rest of your life after leaving your children is almost unbearably sad, particularly considering how their last conversations were with both. And both kids will hate them forever. 

It was also a show about friendship and betrayal, as well as the sacrifices that one makes in the service of an ideal. Stan certainly had his, as well as his own moments from staying the course. But Philip and Liz sacrificed everything, including the only pure things they actually had (their kids) for their country. While they stood looking at the twinkling lights of Moscow, it seemed as if they could almost get to the point of thinking it was all for a just cause, but of course the viewer knows that the idea of Russia they had in their heads really no longer existed by the time they returned, and what waited for them wouldn't be be there for much longer. So, all that sacrifice, betrayal, loss and an eternal purgatory of abandoning their children for...what?

I could have envisioned a much more dramatic ending as many here, but for this show it fits. Perhaps it was a little anticlimactic in the end, but it made the price they paid even more severe. 

As a parent, that final call to Henry was just gutting, as was the sight of Paige on the platform. These are the casualties of war.

[Tuco 5076]

31 minutes ago, Native Horn said:

^^^ Yep, my thoughts too.  I think Oleg will turn out to be OK (not that we'll ever know, dammit).

Stan could have done him a hell of a solid, quietly told him that Liz/Phil had escaped the country, and that the offer still stood on trading the translation for his freedom.

But I think the implication is clearly that Oleg was going to be behind bars for a very long time. 

Could you imagine Philip or Elizabeth in prison?  They would own the place within six months - inmates, guards, warden - everybody.  Unfortunately, there is no indication that Oleg has the same skills.

[Kringelbert Fishtybuns 943]

I liked that their last stop before the train is the great symbol of American capitalism McDonalds.  Especially with the knowledge that McDonalds in Russia is only a couple of years away.

The bags of food looked huge, but I had forgotten that they used to have the large Styrofoam boxes for all the burgers. 

[elfenix 34307]

2 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

http://www.vulture.com/2018/05/the-americans-series-finale-oral-history.html

 

Great interviews with the cast on the finale.

that's a great interview

 

Quote

I liked that their last stop before the train is the great symbol of American capitalism McDonalds.  Especially with the knowledge that McDonalds in Russia is only a couple of years away.

The bags of food looked huge, but I had forgotten that they used to have the large Styrofoam boxes for all the burgers.

i was thinking the same thing, here they are eating their last meal in america at that most american of places. 

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by elfenix
HOW THE FUCK DID MY TEXT END UP INSIDE THE QUOTE?

[sidis 9832]

loved it...excellent music.  they must have spent more of their budget on music in this series than anything else.  something about montaging things to brothers in arms...same thing when west wing did it.

paige getting off was a no-brainer for me.  felt it coming.  elizabeth's dream sequence was the only somewhat peculiar thing about it to me...felt like it was a little microcosm of her evolution from not even wanting their kids as anything but props but to what?

hard to see stan not doing everything he could for oleg after letting phillip and elizabeth go.  and i just can't see someone as high and established in the politburo as oleg's dad not be able to get them to do a trade of some sort once things got settled...

renee's look at the end was telling in my mind.  she was looking at the house with a sense of satisfaction more than anything...knowing they had gotten away.

[bamachine 1231]

I haz a sad. Loved the way they ended it. They even set us up with the TV-MA L/V tag at the start, as there was no actual violence.

[BluTechsan 393]

Gonna miss this show. 

I have zero complaints about the ending besides the fact that it is the end.

So very well done.

Thank ShagSurly for letting me enjoy and experience it with you all. 

[WBT 20614]

Anyone else almost cower from the TV when Stan called Phillip a fucking piece of shit?  Great delivery of that line.

[Txzen 498]

2 hours ago, sidis said:

elizabeth's dream sequence was the only somewhat peculiar thing about it to me...felt like it was a little microcosm of her evolution from not even wanting their kids as anything but props but to what?

I think it was a few things. Certainly she was the most devoted and ideologically between the two, but towards the end she did get outside herself (her art 'lessons') and certainly her feelings as a mother. She may have never wanted children, but that dream was likely a foreshadowing of many more to come - she will be haunted by her abandonment of her kids.

[Dolemite 143]

Sad. I feel the worse for Stan.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Dolemite

[Dolemite 143]

9 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

I was hoping Phillip and Elizabeth got bullets to the head as the final end game 

 

They deserved bullets to the head for all the people they murdered and for the lives they ruined and for what they did to Paige who is fucked. Henry with Stan's guidance will be OK. 

Stan is the one that I feel really bad for. He lost his best friend and betrayed his country. What could be worse for a man like him?

Edited May 31, 2018 by Dolemite

[immortal13 4059]

I just wanted to be on the edge of my seat during some crazy insane escape scene. I was disappointed 

[Skipper 6136]

4 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

I just wanted to be on the edge of my seat during some crazy insane escape scene. I was disappointed 

That's not what this show was.  Sure it had some of that, but it was always ancillary to the real story which was (correctly IMO) featured in the finale.    

[immortal13 4059]

1 minute ago, Skipper said:

That's not what this show was.  Sure it had some of that, but it was always ancillary to the real story which was (correctly IMO) featured in the finale.    

Well it lacked tension, in my opinion

[Skipper 6136]

Just now, immortal13 said:

Well it lacked tension, in my opinion

Man I just disagree.  The garage scene with Stan was like 15 minutes and I don't think I moved an inch.  Obviously reasonable minds can disagree but after digesting it a little more I think it was pretty damn close to perfect (writing, acting, directing, music, etc.).  Want to watch it again over the weekend.

[immortal13 4059]

2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Man I just disagree.  The garage scene with Stan was like 15 minutes and I don't think I moved an inch.  Obviously reasonable minds can disagree but after digesting it a little more I think it was pretty damn close to perfect (writing, acting, directing, music, etc.).  Want to watch it again over the weekend.

Im not complaining about that scene

[TexArcher 37977]

And the train scene??

[immortal13 4059]

21 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

And the train scene??

Yes?

[TexArcher 37977]

Did it lack tension?

[immortal13 4059]

Meh, Canadian mounties just don't invoke that much fear and intimidation. 

[kevwun 15797]

Those weren't Mounties.  They were still in the US.

[Pato del Muerto 52524]

The way they showed border patrol looking at Phil and Liz, and the bit of relief they expressed after being ok’d, made me think they’d be seeing Paige out the window in handcuffs being led away. I was surprised when she had gotten off the train by choice. 

I think I’d rather have seen them leaving the country wondering about Paige in the spy/legal system. 

[PilotsError 2294]

They were looking for Phillip and Elizabeth, not Paige. She would not have been arrested. No one knew about her except Stan.

[Pato del Muerto 52524]

She was in disguise, wasn’t she?  They knew they had kids and knew that Paige wasn’t at her apartment. I think they were looking for her as well, if no other reason than find her and you find her parents. 

[PilotsError 2294]

She wasn't wanted by the FBI. They only had pics of Phillip and Elizabeth. That's why we didnt have a scene of Paige having her passport scrutinized.

[Tuco 5076]

We didn't have a scene of the border patrol checking her passport because she had gotten off the train. 

The FBI would have had to been comically incompetent if they didn't circulate a picture of her after they had ID'd the Jennings and confirmed Paige was no longer in the apartment.  The assumption was that they were all traveling together.  That's why they didn't go anywhere in public together. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Tuco
edit in italic

[Don Johnson 4754]

12 hours ago, Dolemite said:

They deserved bullets to the head for all the people they murdered and for the lives they ruined and for what they did to Paige who is fucked. Henry with Stan's guidance will be OK. 

Stan is the one that I feel really bad for. He lost his best friend and betrayed his country. What could be worse for a man like him?

Let's remember Stan isn't completely innocent either.

 

[DanRydell 799]

They were looking for Phillip and Elizabeth, not Paige. She would not have been arrested. No one knew about her except Stan.

Of course they would have been looking for Paige. Aderholt told Stan they had people on Henry and they had people on Paige’s apartment. Until they had confirmation she wasn’t with her parents, they obviously would have considered she could be.

[Dolemite 143]

1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

Let's remember Stan isn't completely innocent either.

 

I thought of that when I made the comment. Stan likely regrets doing that while, Phillip and Elizabeth would do it all over again if they had to. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Dolemite

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

1 hour ago, Dolemite said:

I thought of that when I made the comment. Stan likely regrets doing that while, Phillip and Elizabeth would do it all over again if they had to. 

 

And don't forget his affair with his Russian contact, exchanging info with Oleg, etc. He is far from innocent and probably why in a lot of ways he was conflicted when he found out the truth about the family across the street. 

[irishtexan 11521]

Watched it last night. Thought it was fantastic. Thematically and viscerally consistent with the identity the show has crafted for years. As others have pointed out, the soul of the show was never the violence. It was relationships and how the "we had a job to do" things P&E did adversely impacted those interpersonal relationships.

A few thoughts:

While I absolutely loved the garage scene, I'm just not buying Stan letting them go. This was his professional white whale, and Stan is a man that burns hot when he feels betrayed. This was the ultimate betrayal. He might not have killed them, but I don't see him letting them leave. Some have posited that he made the decision because he knew them protecting Gorbachev was good for the US. I don't buy it. Excellently acted, just thought it was inconsistent with his character. 

Knowing how things turn out historically, I don't think things are going to be as bleak in the long-run for some of these characters. Gorbachev stayed in power and obviously his enemies have been removed. P&E go back to Russia under the protection of Arkady Zotov, who is a high ranking official for Gorbachev. P&E will come home to a hero's welcome, as they will have done the work to oust those attempting to remove Gorbachev. So their lives won't be bad in Russia.

Same thing re: Oleg. I don't see him rotting in prison. Gorbachev will trade for him.

I don't think Paige did enough to do hard time. And I also think she has a strong defense that she was brought into the gig as a child by her parents. 

Stan's fucked. He's the most fucked character. Love how they leave it up to us to interpret whether or not Renee's a spy. But the seed has been planted and Stan will likely never know the truth. 

I hope things turn out ok for Henry. 

[CooterBrown 18014]

3 hours ago, Tuco said:

The FBI would have had to been comically incompetent if they didn't circulate a picture of her after they had ID'd the Jennings and confirmed Paige was no longer in the apartment.  The assumption was that they were all traveling together.  That's why they didn't go anywhere in public together. 

How long would it have taken back in the '80s to circulate a picture? The best case scenario is they faxed it to a field office. Agents would have to go to said office to get picture and then go back out in the field. 

[elfenix 34307]

2 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

How long would it have taken back in the '80s to circulate a picture? The best case scenario is they faxed it to a field office. Agents would have to go to said office to get picture and then go back out in the field. 

aderholt could have had a sketch made immediately after andrei's sketches.  send paige and henry out with the P&E sketches. 

[TrashMaster G 17563]

14 hours ago, immortal13 said:

Meh, Canadian mounties just don't invoke that much fear and intimidation. 

You know how I know you weren't really paying attention?

[Tuco 5076]

2 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

How long would it have taken back in the '80s to circulate a picture? The best case scenario is they faxed it to a field office. Agents would have to go to said office to get picture and then go back out in the field. 

 I assume the FBI could fax APBs directly the border control stations along the border and at airports. I assume that was a normal check point, and they weren't just flagging down trains everywhere.  I mean, you got to figure on any given day the cops are looking for someone trying to flee the country.  But I don't know how border control works for trains.  Although, now that I think about, border control doesn't normally check IDs when people are leaving. 

 

 

[RomaVicta 29929]

It was okay.

I actually don't like using songs to support a sequence in a film/TV show. It feels like a dramatic crutch. The writers should dramatize what they want to convey without a pop song to fluff it up.

I think they were going for a Spy Who Came in from the Cold mood which I salute them for doing. I just don't think they pulled it off. It's difficult to mix maudlin speeches about friendship and family with the classic, grim spy genre.

I did like the glare Elizabeth keeps on the Russian border guard. That was so in character with a KGB officer being delayed by a private in the army.

The episode hinges on the garage scene which, for me, was not altogether successful. As stated by others, I wasn't convinced about Stan's decision. A direct allusion to killing on both sides and Stan's memory of his wrongful execution of the Soviet would have helped.

Great series. The arc was well timed so it ended at just the right point. I'll give the finale a C+. I'm sure they care.

[RPM 26322]

19 hours ago, Tuco said:

 I assume the FBI could fax APBs directly the border control stations along the border and at airports.

I was going to say they'd use Telex, but I don't think it transmitted pictures.

Edited June 2, 2018 by RPM

[Jive Turkey 12617]

I loved the finale.  Philip and Elizabeth losing Paige and Henry is a fate much worse than death.  I think either would have rather died during an assignment than move back to Russia, knowing they will never see their children again.

Paige should have an out.  Only Stan knows she's involved.  And he's not gonna rat her out because, oh yeah, Stan let P&E go.  And Stan knows Henry is gonna need her.

I can see why Stan let the Jennings go.  And Philip did a great job.  He's a master manipulator.  He knew exactly what to say to Stan.

That garage scene is gonna be what seals the Emmy for the Americans for best drama.  it's never won.  it's only been nominated once.  but it deserves a statue in its last season.

Gonna be awkward when P&E run into Martha at a grocery store in Moscow.

[Jive Turkey 12617]

On 5/31/2018 at 10:44 AM, Don Johnson said:

http://www.vulture.com/2018/05/the-americans-series-finale-oral-history.html

 

Great interviews with the cast on the finale.

thanks!

here's another one with Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/arts/television/keri-russell-matthew-rhys-the-americans.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Ftelevision&action=click&contentCollection=television&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=4&pgtype=sectionfront

[Jive Turkey 12617]

This is pretty spot on, and why the finale made sense.

Quote

But unlike Walter White, Philip and Elizabeth were not in it for themselves. They had a cause, even if it was deluded and wrong. If much of antihero TV is about what happens when you abandon principle, “The Americans” was about how principle can lead you astray — and how it can then lead you, if not to redemption, at least to restitution.

It was also a series — even if this is strange to say about a show filled with long cons, disguises and betrayals — about loyalty and partnership. This too separated “The Americans” from its predecessors, which focused on, and ended with, an antihero’s individualist journey: Walter White alone with his lab equipment, Don Draper sounding his solitary “Om.”

Not Philip and Elizabeth; they had entanglements, a family. The final season began by putting their loyalties at odds. He dropped out of the spy game; she was drawn in to a K.G.B. plot to undermine Mikhail Gorbachev, which Philip eventually discovered, to his horror.

Another series might have gone “Mr. and Mrs. Smith,” pitting the pair against each other. Instead, the show dug into its root concern: Which family — your nation, your team, your blood — has the deepest claim on you?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/arts/television/the-americans-series-finale.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Ftelevision&action=click&contentCollection=television&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=3&pgtype=sectionfront

[FWD 297]

2 hours ago, Jive Turkey said:

I loved the finale.  Philip and Elizabeth losing Paige and Henry is a fate much worse than death.  I think either would have rather died during an assignment than move back to Russia, knowing they will never see their children again.

Paige should have an out.  Only Stan knows she's involved.  And he's not gonna rat her out because, oh yeah, Stan let P&E go.  And Stan knows Henry is gonna need her.

I can see why Stan let the Jennings go.  And Philip did a great job.  He's a master manipulator.  He knew exactly what to say to Stan.

That garage scene is gonna be what seals the Emmy for the Americans for best drama.  it's never won.  it's only been nominated once.  but it deserves a statue in its last season.

Gonna be awkward when P&E run into Martha at a grocery store in Moscow.

I disagree Paige will be fine. With her parents outed she will be under very heavy suspicion. Her actions over the past year will be heavily scrutinized and she will be interrogated ruthlessly. I think her best bet is starting fresh under a new identity (not sure she is up to this) or confessing and hoping for a light sentence.

 

Agree the garage scene is what gives them their emmy. Incredible finale all around. The garage scene and train scene were instantly iconic and will probably be the first things I think of when this show comes up. 

[BigOrange1 6442]

rewatching the finale now and aderholt's interrogation of father andrei is something that hasn't been talked about a lot, but it was another great scene in the episode. 

[TexArcher 37977]

Absolutely.  Aderholt was a quiet badass throughout the show.

[demos 3004]

Going to have to go back and binge watch this entire series.

[immortal13 4059]

3 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Absolutely.  Aderholt was a quiet badass throughout the show.

He always seemed like a fake badass to me. 

[notre dame joe 188]

On 5/31/2018 at 4:53 PM, Dolemite said:

They deserved bullets to the head for all the people they murdered and for the lives they ruined and for what they did to Paige who is fucked. Henry with Stan's guidance will be OK. 

Stan is the one that I feel really bad for. He lost his best friend and betrayed his country. What could be worse for a man like him?

He could join Robert Hanson's team trying to find the Russian Mole.  Then get called out of retirement by Robert Mueller to search for Russian collusion.  Thus his entire life would become a soap opera of subplots that get discarded instead of resolved to the viewer's satisfaction.

[Dolemite 143]

10 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Absolutely.  Aderholt was a quiet badass throughout the show.

And the only major character to not have any character flaws exposed. 

[Bobby Light 76]

Just started Season 1 tonight