Rand Paul was always a Piece of Shit

[SpiralOut 1955]

57 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

No shit I don’t know. I’m don’t work for any intelligence agencies. Dismissing what happened and continuing to give Russia a pass publicly undermines our own national interests. 

The number of passes you and yours give to this admin is fucking ridiculous. It’s not my job to protect American elections, it’s the presidents.

 

Trump doesn't say the right things, but so far his administration and the Republican controlled Congress has kinda dropped the hammer on Russia.  More sanctions.  Expelling diplomats.  Closing a consulate.  Killing their people in Syria.  And we're supplying weapons to Ukraine.  All while trying to improve diplomatic relations with Russia and convince them to stop acting like assholes.  As unpalatable as it may be, you can't just ignore the problem and/or paint Putin and Russia as some rogue state.  They've got a lot of nukes and wield a lot of power and influence. 

And I forgot, we're actually doing the smartest thing which is going after Putin's power base and money supply.  How Hugo doesn't know this considering it's his mission in life to live politics, escapes me.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/us/politics/trump-sanctions-russia-putin-oligarchs.html

It's like with the North Korea shit.  You guys get bent out of shape because Trump even deigned to talk with Kim.  You act like it was the end of the world that Kim got a picture with the President.  So what should we have done instead?  Demanded the world from Kim and given him an "Or else" ultimatum?  Or just kept talking shit about him and not tried to advance a diplomatic solution while just doing like we have been for the past 50 years and sitting on our hands? 

Russia isn't in a better place today than they were under Obama.  They blew their load on meddling in our election when Trump was going to win anyway because tired ass Hillary couldn't get her pecker hard enough to campaign in Ohio, Michigan, etc.  Now they're under the weight of a ton of sanctions, we're stopping them in Ukraine, they've become persona non grata in the civilized world, and you all are upset because Trump is keeping lines of dialogue open while not calling Putin a meanie poo-poo head.  And of course, none of us know what our intelligence services are up to in regards to Russia.  I sincerely doubt they're just whittling their time away ignoring the issue.  

I didn't realize how many neo-cons we had here on the Surl.  We've only been at war for like 98% of our country's history.  What's two more with the Norks and the Ruskies?  Maybe we'll actually get to shoot off some nukes this time!  You can't just call everyone that you dislike or who fucks around the devil and shut them out.  Geopolitics doesn't work that way.  Especially when the other side has 10,000 nukes.

If there's a place to bang Trump on his message it isn't what mean stuff he doesn't say about Russia/Putin.  It's what he actually does say about our allies in NATO, etc.  Though my guess is that comes down to them raking us over the coals when it comes to footing the bill for military expenses while they don't pay their fair share.  Maybe talking shit about them is a bad tactic, but I doubt it comes from a "we like Russia more than Germany, etc." place.

Quote

We are already at peace.  And there is really no threat of war, unless Trump creates it out of nothing.  And BTW, it's the president's job to lead foreign policy.

The fuck?  Hugo, hobbes, and just about every liberal in the country wants Trump to ramp up the rhetoric on the evils of Putin and Russia while also ignoring and not engaging diplomatic efforts with North Korea.  So how is Trump going to create it out of nothing when he's the only one trying to engage in diplomacy with these foreign powers? 

I mean, is that your guys' plan for foreign policy?  Act like the opposite side is evil incarnate and that they must be stopped at all costs?  Constantly shit on them to the entire world and drive further wedges between us and them?  Is that a successful strategy in ya'lls minds?  Because it sounds stupid as fuck to me.

Edited August 8, 2018 by SpiralOut

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Rand doesn’t think democracy is worth making any sacrifices for so it’s not surprising he’s against 1 and 5.

He’s a fucking Trump sellout and a traitor.

[formermav43 4607]

17 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Rand doesn’t think democracy is worth making any sacrifices for so it’s not surprising he’s against 1 and 5.

He’s a fucking Trump sellout and a traitor.

 I didn’t realize Donald Rumsfeld posted here.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Putin has been playing us for 20 years.

He has fucked over every president since GWB and somehow gets a reset from the subsequent president only to keep screwing us. 

I don’t blame the entire Russia problem on Trump but the US government allowing Russia to dictate our leaders and foreign policy is entirely unacceptable. 

Putin isn’t going to be persuaded to stop.  He’s going to need to suffer. 

[Anastasis 23703]

36 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Rand doesn’t think democracy is worth making any sacrifices for so it’s not surprising he’s against 1 and 5.

He’s a fucking Trump sellout and a traitor.

[Anastasis 23703]

14 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Putin has been playing us for 20 years.

He has fucked over every president since GWB and somehow gets a reset from the subsequent president only to keep screwing us. 

I don’t blame the entire Russia problem on Trump but the US government allowing Russia to dictate our leaders and foreign policy is entirely unacceptable. 

 Putin isn’t going to be persuaded to stop.  He’s going to need to suffer. 

Your fucking hero. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Obama’s fault.

[Anastasis 23703]

19 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Obama’s fault.

"He has fucked over every president since GWB and somehow gets a reset from the subsequent president only to keep screwing us."

 

Quick! Name all the President's since GWB!

[Buzzrock 15118]

Putin has been playing us for 20 years.
He has fucked over every president since GWB and somehow gets a reset from the subsequent president only to keep screwing us. 
I don’t blame the entire Russia problem on Trump but the US government allowing Russia to dictate our leaders and foreign policy is entirely unacceptable. 
Putin isn’t going to be persuaded to stop.  He’s going to need to suffer. 

What do you mean “the US government allowing Russia to dictate our leaders”?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/?utm_term=.d70fa4904193

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Anastasis 23703]

Yes. Remember all the politicians who ran on pledges of transparency. Good times.

[SpiralOut 1955]

Oh, shit!  Hugo!  Quick!  Get the firing squad ready mah dood!  More traitorous action by our current President and his cronies!  We're bending so far over backwards for Putin it's just obvious at this point that Trump and Rand and everyone not with a D in front of their name are secret Russian agents!  They're in cahoots!  Cahoots, I tell you!

Even more sanctions directly tied to Russia's bad actions. Also, Hugo suffers a setback on trying to be the leftist, Surl version of Alex Jones

Edited August 9, 2018 by SpiralOut

[jimmyjazz 46987]

4 hours ago, SpiralOut said:

Trump doesn't say the right things, but so far his administration and the Republican controlled Congress has kinda dropped the hammer on Russia. 

You're insane.

[SpiralOut 1955]

21 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You're insane.

More ad hominem.  Yup.  Jimmy knows he has no argument. 

 

[American Swindle 102]

1.  Dead Russians. Supply Kremlin opposition forces in Ukraine more weapons and communications support.  
2.  Call Putin out publicly, a lot.  He hates nothing more than being portrayed as a little shithead.
3.  Increase public awareness of the threat and how to counter it.  (Kinda like what I’ve been doing on shaggy for a year).  
4. Learn from European countries that have been dealing with Putin’s shit longer than we have and how they are confronting it.  
Here’s a good start:
https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/FinalRR.pdf
5.  Strengthen sanctions and go after Putin’s money he hides in the West via oligarchs.
 

You’d rather risk war with a nuclear power than ease things throw diplomacy?

Where have all the anti-war Democrats gone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Anastasis 23703]

16 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

 

 

You’d rather risk war with a nuclear power than ease things throw diplomacy?

Where have all the anti-war Democrats gone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

They all went up in smoke circa Jan 2009

[maninblack 7975]

Any reports of private meetings or secret communications?  Or did he follow the proper protocols? 

I heard he brought a soccer ball to Putin. Wink wink

[maninblack 7975]

Maybe the letter was something really nefarious, like indicating that America's political posture on things like missile defense and NATO would be more flexible after the mid term elections.  

The letter read, "U aRe A Naughty russIan trUmp Master"

 

 

[kopp0e 1135]

8 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Putin has been playing us for 20 years.

He has fucked over every president since GWB and somehow gets a reset from the subsequent president only to keep screwing us. 

I don’t blame the entire Russia problem on Trump but the US government allowing Russia to dictate our leaders and foreign policy is entirely unacceptable. 

Putin isn’t going to be persuaded to stop.  He’s going to need to suffer. 

So what are your thoughts between Gorbachev who helped loosen the reigns of tyranny vs Putin, who has ran a covert iron fist camp..?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 hours ago, kopp0e said:

So what are your thoughts between Gorbachev who helped loosen the reigns of tyranny vs Putin, who has ran a covert iron fist camp..?

Gorbachev was good for the people of Russia and continued to support things like the idea of a free press after the iron curtain fell.

Ironically, almost every thing I suggested we do to confront Russia, we are already doing now.  The idea that any of that risks nuclear war is absurd.  We are already backing anti-Putin forces in Ukraine.  

Russia isn’t some big bad wolf but they’re causing serious problems in the free world.  We are the United States, the premier global super power, it’s time to start acting like it instead of looking the other way when our democracy takes a digital Pearl Harbor to the face.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[burntorangebongos 10809]

Pearl Harbor the face isn't nearly as pleasant as to the neck.

[GRHorn 105]

I still believe Trump’s biggest mistake can be/will be directly engaging Iran. Whatever role Rand can play in discouraging that is of great benefit to the USA. 

[GRHorn 105]

9 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

You're insane.

Didn’t we just institute more sanctions because they supposedly poisoned a couple Brits in the UK?  What does that have to do with us? Seems like we’re being plenty aggressive towards Russia. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

20 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Didn’t we just institute more sanctions because they supposedly poisoned a couple Brits in the UK?  What does that have to do with us? Seems like we’re being plenty aggressive towards Russia. 

Per Jim Scuitto CNN National Security Reporter

- They are mandated under the 1991 Chemical & Biological Weapons Control & Warfare Elimination Act for chemical weapons use. 

- WH blew past the law's 60-day deadline by a month.

The law mandates a second, more Draconian round of sanctions unless:

-Russia assures the US it is no longer using chemical or biological weapons

-Russia allows onsite inspectors to ensure the government is not using chem/bio weapons

 

That second round could include:

- Ending flights to US by Russian national carrier Aeroflot

- Banning all/most Russian imports/exports with US

- cutting off diplomatic relations

Russia now has 90 days to comply.

**90 days from today is Election Day**

Since virtually no one expects Russia to comply with the law's conditions, in 90 days, the Trump administration will face a very big test of its Russia policy.

[jimmyjazz 46987]

52 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Didn’t we just institute more sanctions because they supposedly poisoned a couple Brits in the UK?  What does that have to do with us? Seems like we’re being plenty aggressive towards Russia. 

Trump slow-played the enactment Congressional sanctions on Russia.  This summer he forced Congress to give him the power to unilaterally ease sanctions.  He has refused to do anything about securing our election process, and he fellates Putin every chance he can.

No, Trump is not "dropping the hammer" on Russia.  He is doing the opposite.

I do realize this is the latest angle in the right-wing media, and you lapdogs are just eating it up.  It doesn't make it correct.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Remember when Trump killed 200+ Russians in Syria and took credit for it?

Neither do I

[bernorange 8385]

Trumpkins aren't the only reactionaries in the game.

Quote

The White House said Tuesday that a letter from President Donald Trump to Russian President Vladimir Putin was meant to introduce Kentucky Republican Sen. Rand Paul to the Russian leader.

"At Senator Paul's request, President Trump provided a letter of introduction. In the letter, the President mentioned topics of interest that Senator Paul wanted to discuss with President Putin," White House spokesman Hogan Gidley said in a statement.
...
A White House official told CNN that Paul wanted this letter from Trump in hopes of setting up a meeting with Putin during his trip to Moscow this week. A meeting between Paul and Putin has not happened and isn't expected to happen at the moment.

The topics that Paul said were included in the letter are things Paul wished to discuss with Putin, not topics Trump asked him to raise with Putin, the official told CNN.

A US official provided to CNN the text of the letter, which read: "I would like to introduce Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and a voice for expanding dialogue with the Russian Federation. He will be in Moscow from August 5 to August 8."

The brief letter continued, "Senator Paul would appreciate the opportunity to meet with you to discuss several topics. He is interested in legislative exchanges, parliamentary dialogue and cultural and educational exchange programs, increased counter-terrorism cooperation, building on recent successes like the disruption of the St. Petersburg plot and resolution of the military conflicts in Syria and Ukraine."

The letter ended, "Thank you for considering meeting with Senator Paul during his visit to Russia."

Paul spoke with Trump multiple times ahead of the senator's travel to Moscow, both in person and in the Oval Office, according to a source with knowledge of the matter.
Paul, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, had planned this Russia trip before the Trump-Putin summit in Helsinki, Finland last month, the source said. After the summit, Paul and Trump discussed the senator's planned meetings with Russian officials and the messages the president wanted Paul to convey to them.
...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/08/politics/rand-paul-russia-trump/index.html

[jimmyjazz 46987]

Well, we know Donald didn't write that letter.  I'm not sure anyone in the administration could have done it.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Rand, basically an isolationist Senator from Kentucky, is now acting as Secretary of State/Ambassador to Russia.  

Trump is using members of the legislative branch to conduct foreign policy with Russia.

That doesn’t seem fucked up to you? 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[formermav43 4607]

Non-interventionism =/= isolationism

[kopp0e 1135]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Gorbachev was good for the people of Russia and continued to support things like the idea of a free press after the iron curtain fell.

Ironically, almost every thing I suggested we do to confront Russia, we are already doing now.  The idea that any of that risks nuclear war is absurd.  We are already backing anti-Putin forces in Ukraine.  

Russia isn’t some big bad wolf but they’re causing serious problems in the free world.  We are the United States, the premier global super power, it’s time to start acting like it instead of looking the other way when our democracy takes a digital Pearl Harbor to the face.

The last sentence I totally agree with (actually the entire statement), but specifically the part of Russia not being some rogue loose cannon, and that we can be diplomatic while still enforcing punishment for tampering with elections by proxy of social media...

[Anastasis 23703]

1 hour ago, formermav43 said:

Non-interventionism =/= isolationism

Senators conducting foreign visits!!!  Isolationists!!!

 

That's how stupid this is. 

 

[atomheartbevo 90550]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Remember when Trump killed 200+ Russians in Syria and took credit for it?

Neither do I

He had a serious bone spur problem, but it didn’t keep the US Air Force, US Army, and US Marine Corps from killing 200+ Russians (and I’ve heard it was higher). 

[SpiralOut 1955]

4 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Trump slow-played the enactment Congressional sanctions on Russia.  This summer he forced Congress to give him the power to unilaterally ease sanctions.  He has refused to do anything about securing our election process, and he fellates Putin every chance he can.

No, Trump is not "dropping the hammer" on Russia.  He is doing the opposite.

I do realize this is the latest angle in the right-wing media, and you lapdogs are just eating it up.  It doesn't make it correct.

Has Trump actually eased sanctions on Russia?  No.

Have we put more sanctions in place as well as taken other punitive actions against Russia since Trump has taken office?  Yes.  Multiple times in multiple different ways.

And how is Trump supposed to "secure" our election process?  Is he supposed to send Baron down to the DNC to teach them the cyber and how to actually not get their passwords phished like a bunch of morons?  Or do you want him to unilaterally shut down Facebook?  You act like this is some simple fix that Trump can just wave his hand and make happen. 

But Trump hasn't put Putin on blast, antagonizing him and further backing him into a corner, so all of that doesn't matter to you. 

You seem to have a 3rd graders understanding of how to deal with people you don't like.  You think calling them names and crying about how you've been wronged is the solution.  Thank the fucking God I don't believe in you aren't in charge of foreign policy.

 

 

[GRHorn 105]

4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Rand, basically an isolationist Senator from Kentucky, is now acting as Secretary of State/Ambassador to Russia.  

Trump is using members of the legislative branch to conduct foreign policy with Russia.

That doesn’t seem fucked up to you? 

Not really. It bets the living fuck out of sending John McCain and Lindsay Graham to the Middle East for example.  Isn't Jeff Flake in Africa somewhere right now?  

[GRHorn 105]

5 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Per Jim Scuitto CNN National Security Reporter

- They are mandated under the 1991 Chemical & Biological Weapons Control & Warfare Elimination Act for chemical weapons use. 

- WH blew past the law's 60-day deadline by a month.

The law mandates a second, more Draconian round of sanctions unless:

-Russia assures the US it is no longer using chemical or biological weapons

-Russia allows onsite inspectors to ensure the government is not using chem/bio weapons

 

That second round could include:

- Ending flights to US by Russian national carrier Aeroflot

- Banning all/most Russian imports/exports with US

- cutting off diplomatic relations

Russia now has 90 days to comply.

**90 days from today is Election Day**

Since virtually no one expects Russia to comply with the law's conditions, in 90 days, the Trump administration will face a very big test of its Russia policy.

So poisoning a couple Brits, if true, is considered chemical warfare that demands our intervention?  Color me unimpressed.

[bernorange 8385]

4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

... Trump is using members of the legislative branch to conduct foreign policy with Russia. ...

Wrong.  You are either ignorant (I posted some facts right above your post) or willfully engaging in propaganda.

Rand planned his trip to Russia long before Trump met Putin in Helsinki (before Rand became besties with Trump).  Rand asked for the introduction letter.  The letter specified subjects that Rand was interested in pursuing.  Rand wasn't in Russia to push Trump's agenda.  He was there pursuing his own goals, consistent with the foreign policy he advocated during the POTUS primaries last go 'round.

You really should take a minute to catch your breath.  You are borderline Brisket level unhinged.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Whatever dude, you’re the one starting threads calling me out by name and continue to defend Rand Paul like he’s your uncle or something.

Keep buying Rand’s bullshit.  He’s a fraud and he proves everytime he gets in front of a camera and spouts the Kremlin talking points.

[bernorange 8385]

Damn straight I called you out on your Russia derangement syndrome.  It's pervasive in this forum and dangerous to liberty when it takes root (see one aspect of this in the OP). 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Maybe we should talk about it instead of calling each other names and saying such and such is “deranged”.

You come off childish when you do that.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

@bernorange I think you don’t appreciate the Russia issue as a real problem which makes it difficult to find solutions. 

I don’t want government to regulate the internet, I wish the tech companies could handle this threat on their own but they don’t acknowledge the gravity of the problem either because “shareholders”.

The government has already proven it is not equipped to handle this threat and the platforms are dragging their feet so I took it upon myself to do what little I could to tackle the problem on a grassroots level.

To you, I’m deranged because I spoke out.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[F250 29180]

15 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

@bernorange I think you don’t appreciate the Russia issue as a real problem which makes it difficult to find solutions. 

I don’t want government to regulate the internet, I wish the tech companies could handle this threat on their own but they don’t acknowledge the gravity of the problem either because “shareholders”.

The government has already proven it is not equipped to handle this threat and the platforms are dragging their feet so I took it upon myself to do what little I could to tackle the problem on a grassroots level.

To you, I’m deranged because I spoke out.

To be fair, anyone thinking posting on Surly is the equivalent of grassroots level activity might be a little deranged.

The "Greg Davis is Not Our Standard" banner, now that was some grassroots shit.

 

[Buzzrock 15118]

2 hours ago, SpiralOut said:

Has Trump actually eased sanctions on Russia?  No.

Have we put more sanctions in place as well as taken other punitive actions against Russia since Trump has taken office?  Yes.  Multiple times in multiple different ways.

And how is Trump supposed to "secure" our election process?  Is he supposed to send Baron down to the DNC to teach them the cyber and how to actually not get their passwords phished like a bunch of morons?  Or do you want him to unilaterally shut down Facebook?  You act like this is some simple fix that Trump can just wave his hand and make happen. 

But Trump hasn't put Putin on blast, antagonizing him and further backing him into a corner, so all of that doesn't matter to you. 

You seem to have a 3rd graders understanding of how to deal with people you don't like.  You think calling them names and crying about how you've been wronged is the solution.  Thank the fucking God I don't believe in you aren't in charge of foreign policy.

 

 

Is shutting down Facebook an option? Can we throw in Twitter?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

33 minutes ago, F250 said:

To be fair, anyone thinking posting on Surly is the equivalent of grassroots level activity might be a little deranged.

And that’s fair.  

Texags may have been a better choice but they’re already so far gone and I would have probably been tagged as a libtard troll and banned with the quickness like I was at TD. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Buzzrock 15118]

35 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

@bernorange I think you don’t appreciate the Russia issue as a real problem which makes it difficult to find solutions. 

I don’t want government to regulate the internet, I wish the tech companies could handle this threat on their own but they don’t acknowledge the gravity of the problem either because “shareholders”.

The government has already proven it is not equipped to handle this threat and the platforms are dragging their feet so I took it upon myself to do what little I could to tackle the problem on a grassroots level.

To you, I’m deranged because I spoke out.

You know what else would help? If we didn't make it so damn easy to be meddled with. Far too many of us in Internet-land are all to willing to plaster our triggers right there in our Twitter profiles. And we live in this imaginary place where every comment must be railed against if it came from someone wearing the other jersey. So I imagine all the Russian meddlers probably need an Internet connection and a 8th grade education (and playground mentality) to come up with material that puts us at each others' throats. "Hi I'm so and so and my handle is @whateverthefuck and in my little bio I'll show you how I vote, what I believe, who I hate, and who I love."

This stuff from Russia is never going to be stopped by Republican or Democrat administrations. We are the easiest marks on the planet. We deliver ourselves into it, and Russia knows at least one thing: Americans love to fight with Americans.

You know when you see a car with a shitload of bumper stickers and think to yourself "Yeesh, steer clear." That's everyone on the Internet.

[bernorange 8385]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

@bernorange I think you don’t appreciate the Russia issue as a real problem which makes it difficult to find solutions. 

...

To you, I’m deranged because I spoke out.

1. Russia or any foreign nation attempting to influence elections is a problem.  I do appreciate it as a real problem.  I don't elevate it to the level of the greatest existential threat to democracy like some of the more rabid members of this forum, however.  The FF understood the nature of the issue involving truth, propaganda and censorship.  The first amendment was well considered.  I'm not scared of propaganda.  I'm scared of the lack of critical thinking skills in our population.  But that's not something the government is going to be able to fix.  We need a cultural change in how we value education, critical thinking skills and classical rhetoric/debate.

2. I characterized your obsession with Russia as derangement because the issue has clearly clouded your judgement on just about every political issue of the day.  You are the Brady Bunch's Jan complaining about Marsha, Marsha, Marsha only it's Russia, Russia, Russia.

[bernorange 8385]

1 hour ago, bernorange said:

... (see one aspect of this in the OP). 

I meant first post in the other thread.

[jimmyjazz 46987]

20 minutes ago, bernorange said:

1. Russia or any foreign nation attempting to influence elections is a problem.  I do appreciate it as a real problem.  I don't elevate it to the level of the greatest existential threat to democracy like some of the more rabid members of this forum, however.  The FF understood the nature of the issue involving truth, propaganda and censorship.  The first amendment was well considered.  I'm not scared of propaganda.  I'm scared of the lack of critical thinking skills in our population.  But that's not something the government is going to be able to fix.  We need a cultural change in how we value education, critical thinking skills and classical rhetoric/debate.

2. I characterized your obsession with Russia as derangement because the issue has clearly clouded your judgement on just about every political issue of the day.  You are the Brady Bunch's Jan complaining about Marsha, Marsha, Marsha only it's Russia, Russia, Russia.

You might call me "rabid".  I call me "not a traitor".  Subtle shades of gray.

[ChiTownDoc 21326]

Rudy G just has that look in his eyes.  If you can see past his crooked ass glasses to see those eyes...he's not all there.  Hilarious to see him and Trump play the part of the dog chillin in the burning house.  

Rand is showing his true colors as a complete piece of shit.  Or maybe he was a decent guy until the neighbor bashed his brains in.  Who knows?