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2024 Hurricane Season thread of DOOM


Zonahorn

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I know each utility is buried to a certain depth to give each it's own right of way so to speak.  I don't regularly deal with this, so I don't know the exact order or depth of each.  It stands to reason that for safety reasons that electricity and gas would be two of the lowest though.  As it applies to this conversation, the other really cool thing is that they can do all this under existing roads and sidewalks with disrupting them.  

Idk what the depth for each is, or if there is one for each, but I can tell you that every fucking day for the last 9-ish years I have had to deal with 5-7 gas lines hit by fiber optic crews trying to install in neighborhoods. Fuck fuck fuck
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My Dad, Step Mom, Wife, and I spent a week, based out of Banner Elk, NC this past summer. Went all throughout that beautiful countryside and over the TN border for sight seeing. Loved Boone and the App State campus, so I really feel for those that live there.

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Best wishes going forward to all suffering by this mess.

Hook’em!!!

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5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Makes some sense, as that's when it's affordable (you're already digging utility trenches, just add electric lines to the mix).  I'm sure it's still a bit more than putting them on poles, but not dramatically more.  The real challenge is in retrofitting utilities where they already exist.  I think of my old neighborhood, and the level of trenching etc. that would be required to install entirely new lines....sheeeeeit.

Yeah, retrofitting is absolutely cost prohibitive.  But for new developments, it's not as simple as adding the electric to the mix.  Completely separate trench - water, wastewater, storm, gas, and electric/telecom all have their own trenches, for the most part.  Some areas you can have gas and electric in the same trench.  Typical new subdivision will run you $5000-7500 per lot for gas and electric/telecom install, depending on if rock or dirt.  And then there are the fees most electric providers charge on top of that - typically another $4-5000 per lot.

But talking with Austin Energy a couple of years ago after the snow storm and then the ice storm, they estimated over $25k per house to take NW Hills underground...

 

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5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Huh.  I was surprised to read your post, then googled it.  Found some pretty plain-spoken negativity:

 

Something didn't mesh with numbers on all this with me so I did some crunching, just out of plain curiosity.  So the initial, call it 20 billion expense (I'm using round numbers for ease, but bear with me) is against a customer base of approximately 20 million customers.  Even if debt service and profit were figured for 10%, this would equate to roughly a $100 per customer increase annually, or $8.33 per month per customer.  This is a bit misleading though, because this customer base includes commercial customers, who obviously consume more power.  So I think it's fair to say, that the impact to most residential customers would be considerably less than even that.  Even with the the cost over run, lets say you doubled it to the tune of $40 billion, and applied the same basic numbers, the math would say $16.66 per customer per month, which again includes commercial customers, which wildly skew the numbers.  

What I'm getting at, is that this report seems to be very misleading, I'm going to guess that the average residential customer is only going to see a monthly increase of $8 per month, which given inflation is barely noticeable to most people (not to minimize the importance of it).  This would also explain why no one is up in arms about it.  I'd also point out, that the anti-nuclear group is the pushing narrative on the doomsday customer costs (hint they want coal).  

As to the argument on the utility itself profiting off the over run, this to me is a separate issue, but at the end of the day, once you have a certain set sunk cost, in this case $15 billion, you have two options, either stop or keep going.  If you stop, you spent $15 billion for essentially nothing, if you see the matter thru you paid more but it works.  This really isn't much of a choice.  No one is going to dead weight loss $15 billion, that'll assuredly get you tarred and feathered.  In order to finish the job, there will be change orders and add on costs, so while I get the framing of the argument "Georgia Power shouldn't profit off it's mistakes!", anyone that has ever been around any sort of development knows that there will be over runs and change orders, this is normal.  Interestingly enough, this exact circumstance occurred when Vogtle 1 and 2 started.  Both were in mid construction right when 3 mile island happened and overnight the design had to be refined for additionally safety, which of course ballooned the project.  

One other aspect about the budget over run, the plan first came to fruition in about 2006 with that budget.  It was based on costs for the first 2 reactors that were completed 20 years early.  For the next few years, the project had to thru regulatory review, and redesigned to meet the new regulatory demands.  All this added tremendous cost, but was far from unexpected.  I'd be willing to be that well over half the over run came before the project actually kicked off, and that very little of the overrun was due to actual construction change orders done post kick off.  

 

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Another vital industry was affected:

https://arstechnica.com/health/2024/10/helene-ravaged-the-nc-plant-that-makes-60-of-the-countrys-iv-fluid-supply/

 

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Hurricane Helene's catastrophic damage and flooding to the Southeastern states may affect the country's medical supply chain.

Hospitals nationwide are bracing for a possible shortage of essential intravenous fluids after the cataclysmic storm inundated a vital manufacturing plant in North Carolina.

The plant is Baxter International's North Cove manufacturing facility in Marion, which is about 35 miles northeast of Asheville. Helene unleashed unprecedented amounts of rain throughout the western part of the state, killing dozens and ravaging numerous communities, homes, and other structures, including the plant.

 

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The North Cove plant produces 60 percent of the country's supply of IV solutions, typically producing 1.5 million bags per day, according to the American Hospital Association. The dozens of sterile solutions Baxter makes at the facility are used for everything from intravenous rehydration and drug delivery to peritoneal dialysis used to treat kidney failure.

"Our hearts and thoughts are with all those affected by Hurricane Helene," Baxter CEO José Almeida said in a statement on September 29. "The safety of our employees, their families, and the communities in which we operate remains our utmost concern, and we are committed to helping ensure reliable supply of products to patients. Remediation efforts are already underway, and we will spare no resource—human or financial—to resume production and help ensure patients and providers have the products they need."

 

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On October 2, Mass General Brigham, Massachusetts’ largest hospital and health care system, warned employees via email of a "serious and immediate IV fluid shortage," according to the Boston Globe.

"We must immediately act to conserve fluids," the email said. "A Mass General Brigham incident Management Team is monitoring this very dynamic situation and will respond with appropriate measures as this unfolds."

 

Spoiler

On the same day, Baxter sent a letter to hospitals nationwide saying that it could only provide several IV products at 40 percent of normal supply levels, the Globe reported. Other hospital systems, including those in New Hampshire and Rhode Island, are also closely monitoring inventories and, in some cases, conserving supplies where possible. The Washington Post likewise reported that in Asheville, which was devastated by the flooding, staff at Mission Hospital were also told to start using IV fluids more sparingly.

In an update on Thursday, October 3, Baxter said that it had managed to reach a majority of its 2,500 North Cove employees, who had evacuated from the plant prior to the storm. But some are still unaccounted for and communication has been hampered by a lack of cell phone reception. In terms of the site's recovery process, the company said a temporary bridge has been created to reach the plant, but a permanent structure will need to be built in the coming weeks to move in equipment for repairs and move out inventory that was secured in preparation for the storm and survived. There is currently no timeline for when the plant can resume operation.

Baxter has established purchasing limits on current supplies to ensure equitable distribution of inventory. It is also working with the Food and Drug Administration to explore importing products from its global manufacturing network.

 

 

Edited by Francisco 2.0
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