Euro 2024

[Hagbard Celine 10875]

15 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

Ummm… the Premier League is a collection of skilled and unskilled English players along with most of the top talent from around the world due their TV deal.

Italy is a collection of Italians (good and bad) plus bargains from around Europe (mostly the former communist countries) and a smattering from outside Europe, with the benefit of most Argentines, Brazilians, and Uruguayans being able to get an EU passport to count as a euro. 

and your point is?

[Hagbard Celine 10875]

15 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

This was just moments before Havertz yanked him to the ground by his shoulders and he was lining up a shot on goal. 

Bummer for the Danes. 

the nats could use some of that home cookin' but we are never going to get it in the copa

[Derka 6265]

just wrapped up watching the game on my dvr. denmark got screwed. the disallowed goal took place about one second after a clear cut foul in the box where the denmark player attempting the goal was grabbed and pulled, but apparently var didn’t notice or didn’t care about that. 90 seconds later it’s 1-0 germany. whatevs. at least kai scored. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12418]

1 hour ago, Napoleon said:

Why do you think USMNT players can play so well in that league?.

It's just beyond troubling at this point. We have 4 players who plsy at the highest level, and then mostly guys who play on lower tier EPL/Germany/Spain teams or the MLS. It's sad to see these guys who have potential but can't seem to put it together. 

Berhalter obviously fucking sucks and doesn't help with his shitty schemes and rotations. But damn,.man. Losing to Panama, barely beating Bolivia, getting repeatedly punched in the balls by Colombia. It's like warding special needs kids play lock ball against adults. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12418]

1 hour ago, HenryJames said:

Friday should be Germany-Spain and France-Portugal.

Would be epic 

[Napoleon 8690]

57 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

the nats could use some of that home cookin' but we are never going to get it in the copa

There wasn’t any “home cooking”.

Also, the USA isn’t “hosting” The Copa so much as the stadiums being used are located in the USA  

CONMEBOL is most definitely “hosting” this tournament.

 

47 minutes ago, Derka said:

just wrapped up watching the game on my dvr. denmark got screwed. the disallowed goal took place about one second after a clear cut foul in the box where the denmark player attempting the goal was grabbed and pulled, but apparently var didn’t notice or didn’t care about that. 90 seconds later it’s 1-0 germany. whatevs. at least kai scored. 

Can’t tell if you’re kidding or not. 

But just in case you’re not…

The offsides call preceded Haverts yanking down #8.

That means that the Havertz foul never happened… just like the goal didn’t happen. 

That’s how the rules of soccer work.

/#mansplain

Edited June 29 by Napoleon

[HornOnTheBayou 8937]

2 hours ago, Macklemore said:

I’m pro instant replay in football but I hate VAR in soccer. Agree with the following:

 

I completely agree and my son and I were both saying during the match that there has to be some ref's discretion in cases like this. But what is the solution? I don't want to completely get rid of VAR because there are definitely times when it's needed to correct a clearly blown call. And obviously, by the letter of the law, he was offside. Of course it's bullshit, but I don't know how to change the rule without creating more problems.

[Funk Doctor Spock 12418]

VAR is a blessing and a curse. 

[Macklemore 2872]

2 hours ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

I completely agree and my son and I were both saying during the match that there has to be some ref's discretion in cases like this. But what is the solution? I don't want to completely get rid of VAR because there are definitely times when it's needed to correct a clearly blown call. And obviously, by the letter of the law, he was offside. Of course it's bullshit, but I don't know how to change the rule without creating more problems.

Arsene Wenger’s offside rule change to the Laws of the Game would solve this issue as there must be "daylight" between the attacker and defender for an offside offense to occur. If any part of the attacker's body, from which they can score, is in line with the last defender then this is considered onside. As for the VAR overruling of the Denmark goal, IMO there was no “clear and obvious error” to render that decision.

Edited June 30 by Macklemore

[HornOnTheBayou 8937]

3 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Arsene Wenger’s offside rule change to the Laws of the Game would solve this issue as there must be "daylight" between the attacker and defender for an offside offense to occur. If any part of the attacker's body, from which they can score, is in line with the last defender then this is considered onside.

OK, but then you're just shifting the debate to "Is there a sliver of daylight or not?" and I don't think that solves anything if you do a computer replay. Maybe the solution is VAR can step in if there is a clearly wrong call, but the ref has to see it on the monitor without the aide of a computer drawing lines on a simulation.

[Captain Ron 12883]

16 hours ago, Macklemore said:

I’m pro instant replay in football but I hate VAR in soccer. Agree with the following:

 

 

16 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

best post of the day @Macklemore

preserving the .jpg for posterity

 

I do not get the gnashing of teeth on this call. This is EXACTLY why the offsides rule was created. If any part of your ball playing body is beyond your opponent, then you are offsides. HIS FOOT is beyond the defense, it is a sport you play the ball with .... checks notes ...

YOUR FEET!!!!

I also don't know why people are down on VAR for this one - if you have an issue, the problem is the rule not VAR applying the rule.

 

14 hours ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

I completely agree and my son and I were both saying during the match that there has to be some ref's discretion in cases like this. But what is the solution? I don't want to completely get rid of VAR because there are definitely times when it's needed to correct a clearly blown call. And obviously, by the letter of the law, he was offside. Of course it's bullshit, but I don't know how to change the rule without creating more problems.

Exactly what is bullshit here? He is offsides, PERIOD. And he is offsides both in the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.

And discretion?

A. This is a black-white rule, so there is 0 discretion to be had here. Either you are beyond the player, or you are not. I really like rules like this.

B. Exactly what discretion should be allowed? Oh, it's only a toe, so goal? Eventually it becomes we let the toe past, so let's let the whole foot go. Oh we're letting the whole foot, how about the leg? Etc, etc etc.

Ref judgement is one of the worst things in the sports. We saw 2 nearly identical handballs in the Copa where they both went to VAR, one was called post review one was not and many people think the one not called was clearer a handball than the one which was called. Why? Because it ultimately comes down to judgement. When you have a clear rule, the need for discretion is 0.

 

12 hours ago, Macklemore said:

Arsene Wenger’s offside rule change to the Laws of the Game would solve this issue as there must be "daylight" between the attacker and defender for an offside offense to occur. If any part of the attacker's body, from which they can score, is in line with the last defender then this is considered onside. As for the VAR overruling of the Denmark goal, IMO there was no “clear and obvious error” to render that decision.

 

what do you mean not clear an obvious? His foot is offsides!

Wenger's rule change would be cool, but would just shift the argument from is a sliver of him past the man to is there some sliver of him still covered by the defender?

[Firemans4Horn 18112]

It’s Trent/Gallagher/Mainoo’s fault. 

[HornOnTheBayou 8937]

21 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Exactly what is bullshit here? He is offsides, PERIOD. And he is offsides both in the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.

 

I agree with you that he is offside. No question his foot is past the defender. But I don't agree that he broke the spirit of the law. The rule is in place to prevent an attacker from just parking themselves way downfield and that is obviously not what happened here. 

I hate thinking of it like this, but we just have too much info. If we didn't have the computer simulation and could only rely on the video, no one would complain if the goal was allowed. Well OK, the Germans would complain, but no one would take them seriously. It's similar to baseball when a runner slides into second, clearly beats the tag, but as he's sliding his body comes off the bag for a split second while the tag is being applied, and he's called out. By the letter of the law, he is out. But in the spirit of the law, he should be safe since he reached the bag before the tag was applied. And with just real time video, no one would complain. But because we have HD super slo-mo video zoomed in on the bag, we can see his body barely left the bag when his armpit passed over and he's called out. It's stupid.

[Hagbard Celine 10875]

'Deepfake' Southgate videos viewed by millions
England manager Gareth Southgate in a news conferenceImage source, Getty Images
Image caption,

The videos were made to look like Gareth Southgate news conferences
Laura Scott
Sports News Correspondent

    Published
    30 June 2024, 06:22 BST

At a major tournament England head coach Gareth Southgate's words are analysed, deconstructed and debated.

But Euro 2024 has brought a new dimension - AI-generated fake interviews with the England boss that are being viewed by millions on social media.

These fake clips purporting to show Southgate making crude remarks about his players have been called "offensive" by the Football Association.

The videos have been circulating on TikTok and Instagram.

They include derogatory comments about England's Euro 2024 players as well as those who were not selected.

Comments on the social sites suggest the material, about players such as Phil Foden, Jordan Henderson, Jack Grealish and Marcus Rashford, had been believed by some viewers.

The videos are all made to look like Southgate is giving press conferences, but use an AI voice generator to overlay fake words and artificially move his mouth.

In one of them the artificial voice apologises "to the nation" for the manager's performance and criticises players.

In another, the fake Southgate says: "I think we really missed Jordan Henderson's presence out there tonight."

BBC Sport spoke to several England fans in Germany who had seen the material on social media.

The majority said they found the content funny.

"It's the classic stereotypical British humour. It helps build a bit of morale to keep people motivated and happy, so I think it's harmless fun," one supporter told BBC Sport.

"Apparently, Gareth doesn’t read anything or watch any social media anyway."

Another described some of the videos as "quite funny" but pointed out it was not just the England manager who has been targeted.

"I've seen a lot of players and, during the season, [Jurgen] Klopp, Pep [Guardiola] and [Mikel] Arteta getting it too."

However, the FA said in a statement: "As we do with all harmful content we will take steps to have these offensive videos removed.

"Gareth and everyone in camp are focused on Sunday’s game."

England won Group C of Euro 2024 and face Slovakia in the last 16 - but there has been criticism of the way England have played as well as of Southgate personally.
AI videos a 'clear and present danger'

Earlier this year London Mayor Sadiq Khan said deepfake audio of him supposedly making inflammatory remarks before Armistice Day almost caused "serious disorder".

And former Justice Secretary Sir Robert Buckland said AI videos in politics represent a "clear and present danger" to UK democracy.

While AI-generated content is allowed on TikTok and Instagram, there are rules on what content is considered harmful.

Shortly after the BBC approached TikTok about a number of videos on one account, the material disappeared.

It is understood it was taken down because it repeated violations of the platform's AIGC policies.

Meta, which owns Instagram, was also reviewing the material.

Experts warned that those in positions of power were not the only ones vulnerable to this kind of manipulation.

Professor Hany Farid, a digital forensics expert at the University of California, said: "It's not just people who have a big digital footprint whose identity can be co-opted.

"I can take as little as 30 seconds of someone’s voice, as short as a single image of somebody, and create deepfakes of them."

He added that there was a delicate balance to strike with regulation when it comes to satire.

"It's one thing to have an article that is satirical, making fun of a politician or an athlete," he said.

"It is very different to have a video of that person in their voice and in their likeness that can be quite offensive, and I think the courts, and we as a society, are going to have to think about where we draw that line."

[Hagbard Celine 10875]

for anyone wondering, as was i, nacho tots are an actual thing

https://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/nacho-tots/

[ChickenSandwich 9843]

54 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

 

 

I do not get the gnashing of teeth on this call. This is EXACTLY why the offsides rule was created. If any part of your ball playing body is beyond your opponent, then you are offsides. HIS FOOT is beyond the defense, it is a sport you play the ball with .... checks notes ...

YOUR FEET!!!!

I also don't know why people are down on VAR for this one - if you have an issue, the problem is the rule not VAR applying the rule.

 

Exactly what is bullshit here? He is offsides, PERIOD. And he is offsides both in the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.

And discretion?

A. This is a black-white rule, so there is 0 discretion to be had here. Either you are beyond the player, or you are not. I really like rules like this.

B. Exactly what discretion should be allowed? Oh, it's only a toe, so goal? Eventually it becomes we let the toe past, so let's let the whole foot go. Oh we're letting the whole foot, how about the leg? Etc, etc etc.

Ref judgement is one of the worst things in the sports. We saw 2 nearly identical handballs in the Copa where they both went to VAR, one was called post review one was not and many people think the one not called was clearer a handball than the one which was called. Why? Because it ultimately comes down to judgement. When you have a clear rule, the need for discretion is 0.

 

 

what do you mean not clear an obvious? His foot is offsides!

Wenger's rule change would be cool, but would just shift the argument from is a sliver of him past the man to is there some sliver of him still covered by the defender?

Baseball figured it out a long time ago. Tie goes to the runner. 

[Braff Zacklin 13626]

28 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

\e rule is in place to prevent an attacker from just parking themselves way downfield

Back in the day, we called this "tubbing."

And in informal pickup games at the park, there was always one fat dude or just some lazy SOB that resorted to this after about five minutes of play.

[Hagbard Celine 10875]

dark and donovan on the call

(john strong is a beating)

[Firemans4Horn 18112]

lol, Trippier is so fucking bad. 

[HenryJames 66133]

Racist, imo.

[Macklemore 2872]

England looks like hammered dogshit so far. Another Southgate special.

[The Maestro 758]

5 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

lol, Trippier is so fucking bad. 

Hmmm

[AbeFroman 2194]

Nice moon ball

[Hagbard Celine 10875]

5 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

lol, Trippier is so fucking bad. 

post holding up well

jfc

shape your body over the ball dammit

[HenryJames 66133]

A little high.

[cmontexas 3272]

England is the Texas A&M of international football

[Firemans4Horn 18112]

Just put a shot on net. 

[Hagbard Celine 10875]

mexico are aggy

[Hagbard Celine 10875]

more of that

stretch them

[Firemans4Horn 18112]

Did Southgate model his playing style after Sheffield United? No idea how players that play so well for their club can be this abysmal. 

[HenryJames 66133]

England playing like the Hanson Brothers.

[HenryJames 66133]

Kane touched the ball yet?

[Hagbard Celine 10875]

5 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

England playing like the Hanson Brothers.

hockey or racecars?

[Firemans4Horn 18112]

Slovakia!!!!!

[Braff Zacklin 13626]

Against the run of play but I'll take it!!!

[HenryJames 66133]

Hi!

[The Maestro 758]

Whelp

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Lulz

[Firemans4Horn 18112]

Kyle Walker has been worse than Trippier the first 25 minutes

[WBT 20624]

Nice goal.  It's not coming home?

[Macklemore 2872]

Southgate OUT! 

[Hagbard Celine 10875]

not good bob

[HenryJames 66133]

Guehi sucks.

[AbeFroman 2194]

Maybe that light's a fire under their ass.

[alincoln 2381]

Just now, HenryJames said:

Guehi sucks.

Awful defending. Loses the header and then lazy getting back 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

not good bob

Might be tough to overcome for a team averaging less than a goal a game

[WBT 20624]

11 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

England playing like the Hanson Brothers.

 

6 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

hockey or racecars?

Singers

[cmontexas 3272]

20 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

mexico are aggy

Mexico doesn't take themselves as seriously as England aggy or believe their fanbase is more special and deserves to win. They are just rowdy assholes

Mexico is Tech

[Ted Lange 16110]

GGGareth makes Gregg look like Pep.

[Firemans4Horn 18112]

This set up makes no sense for England (it hasn’t the entire tournament). Kane, Foden, and Bellingham all want to occupy the same space. You either have to put on Gordon for Foden or Watkins for Kane. 

it’s like they never learned from shoehorning Lampard/Gerrard/Scholes into the same midfield. 

2 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

GGGareth makes Gregg look like Pep.