senseless gun violence

[aggie08 21,495]

10 hours ago, markstanco said:

Not sure if propaganda, but I read that crimes like these aren’t being reported any longer which of course means rates will obviously go down.

Where'd you "read" this?

[Js1 85,302]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

Where'd you "read" this?

You know where

[Da Fino 2,778]

10 hours ago, markstanco said:

Not sure if propaganda, but I read that crimes like these aren’t being reported any longer which of course means rates will obviously go down.

Concerning.. 

[sidis 9,825]

9 hours ago, bolverk said:

Homicides aren't being reported. Where the fuck did you read that?

Let's think about this for a moment by using our god-given intelligence and the years of higher education that (hopefully) taught us to think critically. The CDC, which retrieves its data from cause-of-death reports by local coroners, has fallen victim to some cabal-like conspiracy to suppress local homicide rates across the country.

Is that what you're going with? To what end? Was there a massive Zoom call for coroners during which they all agreed they would lie to the federal government?

Or are you going to fall back on being gullible to the bullshit lies spawned by Covid deniers on Xitter that there's a conspiracy by the feds to change the cause of death numbers to suit some nefarious purpose? This is as bad as the embarrassing moment you suffered when posting about googling 3-digit numbers on Covid cases?

Aren't you tired of being played, or do you simply enjoy being lied to so that you can feel validated?

you seem like the type of person who has never entered a random three digit number and covid deaths into the google search bar to see what mysteries abound before, bolverk.

[Derka 6,173]

 

 

[Jkwellborn 6,697]

You think that’s on the gun? That kid was obviously mentally unstable.

[Apep 645]

Skynet struck first. 

[aggie08 21,495]

3 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

You think that’s on the gun? That kid was obviously mentally unstable.

Well, his dad being a shitty ass gun owner sure didn't help matters. But yeah, this is a weird one for sure.

[Derka 6,173]

17 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

You think that’s on the gun? That kid was obviously mentally unstable.

a sick kid shooting himself in the head is senseless gun violence. and no it’s not on the gun, it’s on his mom and stepdad who knew about how badly he was struggling and still gave him access to a gun.

Edited October 25 by Derka

[Jkwellborn 6,697]

a sick kid shooting himself in the head is senseless gun violence. and no it’s not on the gun, it’s on his mom and stepdad who knew about how badly he was struggling and still gave him access to a gun.

Without getting into an argument with you, that kid could have picked plenty of ways to end it. I know a guy that hung himself, I’m not blaming it on the rope.

[Pam Cummings 9,639]

29 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

Without getting into an argument with you, that kid could have picked plenty of ways to end it. I know a guy that hung himself, I’m not blaming it on the rope.

I don't think anyone would blame the thing he used to kill himself. Just questioning the easy availability to such a thing when a guy has displayed what are clear mental issues. It's not just himself that he could have hurt.

 

Usually when people are that clearly mentally unstable you do everything you can to not leave weapons or drugs or ropes or anything else around that they could use to hurt themselves. This was a failure and should be learned from.

[aggie08 21,495]

How about we just don't leave our guns accessible to our 14 year old children, regardless of mental state? Lock your shit up.

[BabaYaga 15,290]

Lot of assumptions of the availability of the gun.  Do we know if the father had a safe?  Everyone here does know of course how insanely easy they are to get into, right?  Kids obviously lives in the cyber world.  My guess is he could crack into your phone in minutes (as mine can), yet he can't figure out a keypad safe (most common) that has 4-6 digits?

[aggie08 21,495]

Yes, I'm sure the 14 year old falling in love with a Daenerys Targaryen chat bot cracking his dad's gun safe is just as likely as his dad being a reckless gun owner.

[BabaYaga 15,290]

Like I said, lot of assumptions here

[aggie08 21,495]

13 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Like I said, lot of assumptions here

Because it's a ridiculous train of thought. I've owned multiple gun safes. The only way someone--without professional tools--was getting into them "insanely easily" is if I was careless/stupid with the combinations. Even when facing a teenager who lives in the "cyber world."

But I'm sure wrongly thinking that gun safes are barely a deterrent helps you to justify keeping your own guns unlocked, so carry on.

[BabaYaga 15,290]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Because it's a ridiculous train of thought. I've owned multiple gun safes. The only way someone--without professional tools--was getting into them "insanely easily" is if I was careless/stupid with the combinations. Even when facing a teenager who lives in the "cyber world."

But I'm sure wrongly thinking that gun safes are barely a deterrent helps you to justify keeping your own guns unlocked, so carry on.

What models?

[aggie08 21,495]

13 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

What models?

I honestly couldn't tell you. But they're on a police report somewhere. My dad passed down a few of his handguns to me in two safes, one keypad, one combo lock. They were stolen (the entire safes, not just the guns) out of my apartment just before I moved out of Texas.

I really don't want to start another gun control conversation. I just pointed out what I thought was very obvious, uncontroversial common sense: safely store your fucking guns, especially if you have minors living with you. But really always.

You comparing cracking a gun safe to your kid accessing your phone--of which they see you enter your pin a dozen times a day and can be easily booted in recovery mode--is asinine. But I'm happy to admit that I'm wrong if you can find me a few examples of household shootings where someone who didn't have the combination broke into a proper gun safe.

[BabaYaga 15,290]

13 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I honestly couldn't tell you. But they're on a police report somewhere. My dad passed down a few of his handguns to me in two safes, one keypad, one combo lock. They were stolen (the entire safes, not just the guns) out of my apartment just before I moved out of Texas.

I really don't want to start another gun control conversation. I just pointed out what I thought was very obvious, uncontroversial common sense: safely store your fucking guns, especially if you have minors living with you. But really always.

You comparing cracking a gun safe to your kid accessing your phone--of which they see you enter your pin a dozen times a day and can be easily booted in recovery mode--is asinine. But I'm happy to admit that I'm wrong if you can find me a few examples of household shootings where someone who didn't have the combination broke into a proper gun safe.

So you know nothing about gun safes.  Gotcha.  If you did, you would know that most of the "affordable" safes, which are what most of us have, run off keypads.  Keypads require batteries.  Batteries run out.  Batteries can be replaced.  Based upon the model, replacing the battery can reset the key code.  That's if the battery is on the tumbler.  If it's inside, there is usually a jack socket to the inside of the safe and most panels are removable, revealing a reset button.

The obvious point being simply having a safe by no means equates to ensuring restricted access to a minor.  

[TwiceHorn 31,446]

On 10/8/2024 at 10:22 PM, markstanco said:

Not sure if propaganda, but I read that crimes like these aren’t being reported any longer which of course means rates will obviously go down.

Well, there is some truth in that the FBI changed their reporting software and larger cities have been slow to adapt to it. This was in the 2020-2021 timeframe.

So, FBI had stats based on data in the new system from approximately 60-70% of reporting jurisdictions and then revised to take into account those without the new form of data.

[Captainant 27,647]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

So you know nothing about gun safes.  Gotcha.  If you did, you would know that most of the "affordable" safes, which are what most of us have, run off keypads.  Keypads require batteries.  Batteries run out.  Batteries can be replaced.  Based upon the model, replacing the battery can reset the key code.  That's if the battery is on the tumbler.  If it's inside, there is usually a jack socket to the inside of the safe and most panels are removable, revealing a reset button.

The obvious point being simply having a safe by no means equates to ensuring restricted access to a minor.  

I got a 12 gun safe on sale a decade ago for $500 that comes with an old school dial combo lock with no batteries. They're out there and not hard to find, if that sort of thing matters to you.

But like, if your kids are getting that gung ho to break into your safe, you're raising some miscreants lol

[aggie08 21,495]

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

So you know nothing about gun safes.  Gotcha.  If you did, you would know that most of the "affordable" safes, which are what most of us have, run off keypads.  Keypads require batteries.  Batteries run out.  Batteries can be replaced.  Based upon the model, replacing the battery can reset the key code.  That's if the battery is on the tumbler.  If it's inside, there is usually a jack socket to the inside of the safe and most panels are removable, revealing a reset button.

The obvious point being simply having a safe by no means equates to ensuring restricted access to a minor.  

Please, please find me the documentation of a legit, affordable gun safe where removing the batteries resets the keycode. Our office's $200 Amazon laptop storage cabinet has somehow figured out that conundrum.

But fine, there's a 1% chance that this 14 year old cracked his dad's gun safe. Thank you for your contribution, and sorry for assuming that the 99% chance that the gun wasn't properly stored is what happened.

[aggie08 21,495]

25 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I got a 12 gun safe on sale a decade ago for $500 that comes with an old school dial combo lock with no batteries. They're out there and not hard to find, if that sort of thing matters to you.

But like, if your kids are getting that gung ho to break into your safe, you're raising some miscreants lol

I would love to hear BabaYaga's explanation on how all of these modern day safe manufacturers that allow easy access into their safes from people without the owner's or manufacturer's code or backup key are staying in business.

[BabaYaga 15,290]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

I would love to hear BabaYaga's explanation on how all of these modern day safe manufacturers that allow easy access into their safes from people without the owner's or manufacturer's code or backup key are staying in business.

I never said there was no thought to using owners codes.  Almost every mainstream safe comes with a preloaded initial code upon purchase for access.  If it's a smaller one, you can usually just bump them open.  Most also just come with a key that you can physically insert.  No passcode required.  Pulling the batteries often triggers the option to reset from outside the safe.  Or the beforementioned reset button is often under the panel.  

For example, the factory reset on a Winchester safe is/was 1-2-3-4-5-6.  Others are "0-0-0-0".  You don't think a kid contemplating suicide is above spending a few minutes online to get the factory reset?  You don't think that a kid in such distress would then move on to something else like pills?  Weird how the parents are suing the AI chatbot company and not the gun you seem so fascinated with highlighting

[Derka 6,173]

8 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

Without getting into an argument with you, that kid could have picked plenty of ways to end it. I know a guy that hung himself, I’m not blaming it on the rope.

trust me, as someone who is mentally ill and has wished he was dead countless times in this life, if i had access to a gun i wouldn’t be here today. it’s a helluva lot easier to pull a trigger than it is to eat pills, slash your wrists, or jump off of something tall and hope everything goes right. my biggest fear by far is that ill survive the attempt and my life will be even worse than it already was. that’s not an issue when you splatter your brains with a bullet. i’ve had this conversation with people in the past. i 100% believe i would not be here today if i had a gun just lying around in my house.

Edited October 25 by Derka

[aggie08 21,495]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Weird how the parents are suing the AI chatbot company and not the gun you seem so fascinated with highlighting

Uhhhh, isn't this making my point? If the gun was properly stored in a safe and the kid got to it anyway, they'd be suing the shit out the safe manufacturer. I'm assuming the dad knows that he fucked up by leaving the gun (or key) out, so suing the gun manufacturer would be pointless. I never said a thing about the gun itself, just the kid's access to it. That's your projection. As derka said, pulling a trigger is a whole hell of a lot easier than other methods.

With my clearance, I use safes and tumbler locks almost every day. Sure, certainly more expensive than any gun safe mechanism I've ever seen, but the technology isn't wildly different. After installation, there's no magical generic factory reset that can be used to bypass the lock entirely without eventually having to enter a pre-programmed combination. It's not your fucking router. Factory codes are tied to the serial number of that individual lock, not generic. So, no, they can't just "search online" to find it.

It was my understanding that it's the same for most gun safes. If gun safe manufacturers are using 123456 as their default code for a factory reset--that bypasses the need for any other code for access--they deserve to all be bankrupt in litigation.

Still waiting for the documents for a safe whose code resets (as in allows you to program a new code without knowing the old) just by removing the batteries. I think you're making shit up.

Also, which is it? Are teenagers such cyber wizzes that they can insanely easily "crack" your average gun safe like you first suggested? Or were they just able to find the hidden backup key?

You're embarrassing yourself on this one, man. Excellent derail when you and I both know the gun this kid used was, beyond the shadow of any reasonable doubt, improperly stored.

[BabaYaga 15,290]

8 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Factory codes are tied to the serial number of that individual lock, not generic. So, no, they can't just "search online" to find it.

It was my understanding that it's the same for most gun safes. If gun safe manufacturers are using 123456 as their default code for a factory reset--that bypasses the need for any other code for access--they deserve to all be bankrupt in litigation.

Your understanding is wrong.  You'll in your usual spin of focusing on the gun above all else.  

 

[aggie08 21,495]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

Your understanding is wrong.  You'll in your usual spin of focusing on the gun above all else.  

 

Ok, buddy. Whatever you need to tell yourself. 

Legally own all the guns you want. Just fucking store them properly please.

[BabaYaga 15,290]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Ok, buddy. Whatever you need to tell yourself. 

Legally own all the guns you want. Just fucking store them properly please.

Get fucked aggy.  From Winchesters own users manual

Quote

The following must be done with the door in the open position with your locking bolts extended. Please NOTE: Between each step you have 4 seconds to proceed to the next step. 1. PRESS and hold the 0 until you hear a double beep (The RED light will come ON and remain ON) 2. Enter in the factory pre-set code of 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 -6 (You will then hear a double beep) 3. Enter in your own personal 6 digit code. (You will then hear a double beep) 4. Enter in your personal 6 digit code - AGAIN (You will then hear a double beep) 5. The RED light will go out.

 

[aggie08 21,495]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Get fucked aggy.  From Winchesters own users manual

 

You are one seriously not smart simpleton. I can use the internet too. That's the initial code setup, and you fucking know it. Here's some further reading from Winchester:

Quote

CHANGING YOUR PERSONAL COMBINATION IN THE FUTURE You can reset your 6-digit combination at any time you choose . Please follow the SETTING YOUR PERSONAL COMBINATION instructions shown on page 11 . You will have to use your personal combination (rather than 1-2-3-4-5-6) as the existing combination . All other steps are the same .

Quote

BATTERY IS DEAD AND YOU CAN NOT OPEN THE SAFE First of all, don’t worry . Your combination is retained in the lock even if all power is lost . Simply install a new 9-volt ALKALINE battery to the connector (ENERGIZER® or DURACELL® only) by referring to the INSTALLING THE BATTERY on page 11 for installation instructions . Once battery is installed, the lock will open normally .

Quote

LOST COMBINATION The loss of your combination can create a high amount of frustration when trying to retrieve it from the manufacturer . We understand this and try to make the process as easy as possible . However, due to liability issues, we must be assured that we are giving the combination to the true owner and as such, our Customer Service Representatives are required to follow the procedure exactly . We request your patience when you are requesting a copy of the combination . The mechanical lock combination of your safe was determined by a random number generator and set at its time of manufacturing . The only record of the combination and the serial number is kept on file at our company and can be accessed by authorized company personnel only . The electronic lock has an override code programmed at the time of manufacturing . The only record of the override code and serial number is kept on f ile at our company and can be accessed by authorized company personnel only . If you lose or forget your combination, you can request a copy for a nominal fee . You can visit our website at winchestersafes .com and print a copy of the Combination Request Form or call our Customer Service Department at 877-948-6723 and they will mail or fax a copy of the form to you . PLEASE NOTE: There is no guarantee that we will be able to recover a combination. Please keep your combination in a safe place. 

You are impressively dumb, congratulations. I don't think I've ever owned anyone this thoroughly.

Edited October 25 by aggie08

[fattyflattie 4,639]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

You are one seriously not smart simpleton. I can use the internet too. That's the initial code setup, and you fucking know it. Here's some further reading from Winchester:

You are impressively dumb, congratulations. I don't think I've ever owned anyone this thoroughly.

I will say this, for the cheap “safes” the Winchester branded ones are pretty quality and heavy as all fuck. I figure most everyone here stores their arms properly and safely, but if they don’t, look into one of those.   I’m fairly certain kids can’t get into it easily (or at all).  Very sorry to hear about your dads guns he passed down being stolen. 

[aggie08 21,495]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I will say this, for the cheap “safes” the Winchester branded ones are pretty quality and heavy as all fuck. I figure most everyone here stores their arms properly and safely, but if they don’t, look into one of those.   I’m fairly certain kids can’t get into it easily (or at all).  Very sorry to hear about your dads guns he passed down being stolen. 

Thanks. All good...let's just say my dad didn't exactly gift me the cream of the crop of his collection, so neither of us were particularly broken up about it (other than putting weapons into criminals' hands if they were ever able to open the safes).

Baba has expressed extreme resistance towards safe storage laws in the past, so between that and not being particularly knowledgeable about modern, digital safes--confusing initial setup codes (which mean exactly fuck all once you've programmed your personal code) with reset codes, suggesting that removing the batteries performs a factory reset where the setup code will now work, and thinking that safe manufacturers are using singular, generic factory master codes, rather than serial number-linked codes--I think it's safe to assume that most of his guns are in the relative open. But redneck gonna redneck.

A good safe will absolutely deter 99% of unauthorized users without professional tools (or knowledge of the factory code or backup key).

[fattyflattie 4,639]

I’m pretty sure he locks his up, if for nothing else, there’s a value calculation to consider.   Safe storage laws should be the first and unbelievably easy layup for bipartisan legislation to get everyone talking sensibly.  Hell, find a way to give some incentives to ease people along.  Metered give and take could go so far.  Safe storage laws wouldn’t move death figures in a massive way, but would absolutely help. These parents are (likely) going to feel guilt for the rest of their lives. 

[Jkwellborn 6,697]

 

Pretty sure Cannon does the same.

[Armybrat 40,829]

Bought this almost 30 years ago.
It sure beats the sheet metal gun “locker” from Academy it replaced.
I prefer the old school combination dial and it is lag bolted to the concrete slab.

 

[Handcruser 2,805]

Safes are a good idea. I like them.

Errybody here knows I sling steel for a living. I’m very pro gun. But keeping your pew pew toys safe from kids seems like a good idea.

Whether that’s a safe or trigger locks or whatever - makes sense.

I dont sell retail much anymore - almost did today but they have it covered - but most people do a pretty good job of not selling to shady folk. Elite arms on Parmer got shut down for selling to the cartel or some shit. So fuck them.

[Captainant 27,647]

The most recent episode of Hard Fork actually has some really good reporting on this story in particular 

Notably they report that the gun was unsecured in a drawer, and the AI chat bot owners probably do have some culpability in his death. Gonna be an interesting case if it goes to court