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Ah gotcha. I did not remember him saying it that strongly. The main takeaway I had is that he asserts that not all calories are created equal, which I think is common sense.

But all calories are equal because a calorie is simply a unit of measure. All foods are not created equal, but that’s not what he and a lot of other heretics like Jason Blaha, Paul Saladino and Shawn Baker are saying.
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Yeah, a calorie is a unit of heat (more specifically, energy).  I'm no nutritionist, but a calorie is definitely a calorie.  (I think I recall from undergrad thermo that a food calorie is actually a kilocalorie, or maybe the other way around.)

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I need to go back and read. I thought the main premise was that calories out and calories in are not independent variables, and that reducing caloric intake would cause weight loss initially, but eventually the body would adapt and reduce caloric expenditure (beyond the predictable decrease associated with not having as much mass).

this is what you’re saying has been debunked?

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16 minutes ago, harpercollins said:

I need to go back and read. I thought the main premise was that calories out and calories in are not independent variables, and that reducing caloric intake would cause weight loss initially, but eventually the body would adapt and reduce caloric expenditure (beyond the predictable decrease associated with not having as much mass).

this is what you’re saying has been debunked?

I think that's fairly accurate.  But there are people with metabolic disorders that just stay fat.  They tend to be borderlne diabetic with blood sugar and insulin production and utilization issues.

And, while a calorie is a calorie in terms of energy, as noted, 200 or 300 calories of quality food -- protein, fat, complex carbs -- can be a better dietary choice than 100 calories of poor food -- processed simple carbs.  So the food that contributes those calories makes a difference.

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34 minutes ago, harpercollins said:

I need to go back and read. I thought the main premise was that calories out and calories in are not independent variables, and that reducing caloric intake would cause weight loss initially, but eventually the body would adapt and reduce caloric expenditure (beyond the predictable decrease associated with not having as much mass).

It seems to me that's saying the caloric deficit is not wholly defined by the reduction of caloric intake, which could be true.  I wonder if it's really true for someone who remains as active as they were before dieting?

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FWIW, I focused heavily on glycemic index for a few years but found thru measurements that blood sugars did not fully align with the glycemic index. Some low GI foods would produce high sugars and vice versa. Over time I just figured out which foods produced the worst results and tried to moderate those. 

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On 6/20/2024 at 8:39 PM, Herbie Hancock said:

Jason Fung is one of the biggest quacks on the face of the earth. Please for the love of god do not promote his fuckery. You’re making the dude upthread that doesn’t know the difference in Type 1 and 2 seem like an intelligent creature (he’s not).

 

 

I may not be very smart but I know when I'm being an ass on a thread (often).  This isn't one of those times.  If you can rattle off all your fav youtube nutrition gods why don't you offer Jimi something useful instead of being an ass. 

 

 

8 hours ago, harpercollins said:

I need to go back and read. I thought the main premise was that calories out and calories in are not independent variables, and that reducing caloric intake would cause weight loss initially, but eventually the body would adapt and reduce caloric expenditure (beyond the predictable decrease associated with not having as much mass).

this is what you’re saying has been debunked?

 

 

I just selected this part of your quote and searched Google.  "reducing caloric intake would cause weight loss initially, but eventually the body would adapt".  You're right.

 

 

5 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Does that likely vary from person to person?

 

It does appear that whole wheat pasta is probably better than regular pasta, but neither appears to be particularly problematic.  Similarly, most fruits aren't particularly bad (watermelon and pineapple seem to be exceptions, which sucks, because she loves those two).

I just want her to be able to enjoy as much of her old diet as possible.

 

 

Probably.  That's why it's good to test with a glucometer.  Wheat pasta night vs. white pasta night.  Assuming all other variables are as identical as possible.  Sauce, sides, drink, etc.  Being on meds would have a huge factor to play.  Much less to near non-existent worry than if you try to go the drug free route.  Doc would more than likely advise against drug free for lots of reasons but I'm sure there are diabetic message boards to lurk.  

 

 

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One interesting development:  she had been sleeping poorly, and thought it might be due to caffeine consumption, so she cut that out and her sleep did improve a bit.

Then she got this diagnosis and the doc put her on metformin -- wham!, she's sleeping like a baby.  Her improvement in mood is substantial.  Could it be coincidence?  Maybe.  Somehow I doubt it.

On my journey, learning about glycemic load (as opposed to just focusing on glycemic index) is starting to shed light on effective dietary restrictions.

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1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

One interesting development:  she had been sleeping poorly, and thought it might be due to caffeine consumption, so she cut that out and her sleep did improve a bit.

Then she got this diagnosis and the doc put her on metformin -- wham!, she's sleeping like a baby.  Her improvement in mood is substantial.  Could it be coincidence?  Maybe.  Somehow I doubt it.

On my journey, learning about glycemic load (as opposed to just focusing on glycemic index) is starting to shed light on effective dietary restrictions.


 

Mood is a big one for people who stabilize their blood sugar levels throughout the day.  It’s a common one.  Good for her.  Keep researching so you can reduce or remove Metformin if that’s your route.  Good docs always want to prescribe as low a dose as possible hopefully they mentioned that in some way.  Or said they’ll do another A1C in a few months to adjust dosage.  The diet might help get her numbers low enough so doc feels safe to lower.  I don’t know of any message boards for diabetics and their food/meds journey. 

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1 minute ago, PRONG HORN said:

Mood is a big one for people who stabilize their blood sugar levels throughout the day.  It’s a common one.  Good for her.  Keep researching so you can reduce or remove Metformin if that’s your route.  Good docs always want to prescribe as low a dose as possible hopefully they mentioned that in some way.  Or said they’ll do another A1C in a few months to adjust dosage.  The diet might help get her numbers low enough so doc feels safe to lower.  I don’t know of any message boards for diabetics and their food/meds journey. 

The doc told her she was being started on 25% of max dosage.

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