The WAY too early June Presidential Debate thread

[Bullneck 19154]

3 minutes ago, softlynow said:

Mack Brown, 72, is tanned, rested and ready.

Or this guy?

[linux 1660]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

I didn't watch but have seen the lowlights. He needs to do better. What y'all don't get though is that there is no conceivable scenario short of him dying in which replacing him improves the Democratic nominee's chance of beating Trump. It's not just some unexamined religious belief that a party shouldn't replace an incumbent nominee, even a very weak one. The Democratic coalition is a very broad coalition that is always fraying at the edges and Biden is still the nominee that it is overwhelmingly most comfortable agreeing on. He has a solid campaign that has ongoing operations, networking, fundraising, etc. It's not simply a case of someone else stepping in and taking over. If the party "elites" step in and replace him with someone else the entire coalition shatters. It might've been possible had he announced before the primaries that he wouldn't run again. It's not now. 

Exactly I loathe Joe Biden, but I am not voting for anybody else, I am the type of person that gives him a negative approval rating particularly for his support of Israel, but will swim through sharks and fight bears to vote for him.

Biden is underwater from his left wing, Trump is underwater from independents, guess who the fuck changed their minds after this debate? Absolutely nobody.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20402]

So much talk about golf.

Play a round of 18 holes, no caddies, no carts, gotta carry your bags and walk, match play ---- for the presidency.

[Cairn Horn88 8265]

10 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

if she were saying she thinks Biden is still fit

She did not say he was…or wasn’t….just that “we need to talk”.

[hobbes2702 13045]

Just now, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

So much talk about golf.

Play a round of 18 holes, no caddies, no carts, gotta carry your bags and walk, match play ---- for the presidency.

This is the right idea. They both die and save us all a lotta stress.

[softlynow 1816]

1 minute ago, Bullneck said:

Or this guy?

80.

I'd nominate him for governor of Nebraska, though.

[troph 24821]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I didn't watch but have seen the lowlights. He needs to do better. What y'all don't get though is that there is no conceivable scenario short of him dying in which replacing him improves the Democratic nominee's chance of beating Trump. It's not just some unexamined religious belief that a party shouldn't replace an incumbent nominee, even a very weak one. The Democratic coalition is a very broad coalition that is always fraying at the edges and Biden is still the nominee that it is overwhelmingly most comfortable agreeing on. He has a solid campaign that has ongoing operations, networking, fundraising, etc. It's not simply a case of someone else stepping in and taking over. If the party "elites" step in and replace him with someone else the entire coalition shatters. It might've been possible had he announced before the primaries that he wouldn't run again. It's not now. 

This is really a great point. It’s also probably the case that many more dems are going to have to get out there and campaign - for Biden - not with Biden. We need 1000 voices making it crystal clear what the election is about - in clear, simple, direct and strong language. 

Edited June 28 by troph

[linux 1660]

Just for the record also Trump "won" debates against Biden last time too, these debates are meaningless. This talk about Trump participating debates being Nixon vs Kennedy is so dumb beyond the pale.

 

[linux 1660]

1 minute ago, troph said:

This is really a great point. It’s also probably the case that many more dems are going to have to get out there and campaign - for Biden - not with Biden. We need 1000 voices making it crystal clear what the election is about - in clear, simple, direct and strong language. 

This Biden only failed in one thing, he brought up issues, it should have been every answer "that is what a dictator would do".

Biden is so fucking weak if he had not had history and endless data and election results I would be panicking. Instead I remember that this was the exact same Biden in 2020 and we avoided a recession (or a pandemic)

[David Dennison 18915]

1 minute ago, linux said:

Just for the record also Trump "won" debates against Biden last time too, these debates are meaningless. This talk about Trump participating debates being Nixon vs Kennedy is so dumb beyond the pale.

No, he didn't. He got his clock cleaned in the first debate, just like most incumbents.

[TexArcher 37949]

1 minute ago, linux said:

Just for the record also Trump "won" debates against Biden last time too, these debates are meaningless. This talk about Trump participating debates being Nixon vs Kennedy is so dumb beyond the pale.

 

Losing a debate is not the same as being so clearly incapacitated that Van Jones cries on national tv.

[troph 24821]

CNN repeating the Waffle House story but didn’t state the “hard to debate a liar” I sweatergod CNN wants Trump. The “it’s hard to debate a liar” IS the Waffle House story Jesus Christ.

Just now, linux said:

This Biden only failed in one thing, he brought up issues, it should have been every answer "that is what a dictator would do".

Biden is so fucking weak if he had not had history and endless data and election results I would be panicking. Instead I remember that this was the exact same Biden in 2020 and we avoided a recession (or a pandemic)

He’s a political genius at least the old style of politics no doubt 

[Sawbonz 27567]

14 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

There is no solution other than Joe Biden deciding to step aside. That's it.

 

I mean he could die

[troph 24821]

CNN flash poll 5% of debate watchers changed their minds. 14% reconsidering. 81% no change. 48% willing to vote for Trump, 40% willing to vote for Biden I think it was 11% unwilling go vote for either 

[CTC2 2797]

2 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Losing a debate is not the same as being so clearly incapacitated that Van Jones cries on national tv.

Tell me he didn’t. 

[F250 28777]

2 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

So much talk about golf.

Play a round of 18 holes, no caddies, no carts, gotta carry your bags and walk, match play ---- for the presidency.

In the 90's me and a buddy were doing this in the summer. We were paired up with two old men. For the first 6 holes these two old fuckers talked so much shit. After the 9th hole one of those old fuckers tapped out. The other old guy was nearly stroking out on the 17th hole and couldn't get on the green to save his life.

My buddy: "You aren't talking shit anymore old man, are you?" lulz I seriously thought we were going to have to carry him off the course. He looked like he was having a heat stroke.

Old people need to just fucking step down and let the younger generation take over.

[Bullneck 19154]

Michael Steele says, "Let Biden be Biden but make him realize how bad it was."

[David Dennison 18915]

1 minute ago, troph said:

CNN flash poll 5% of debate watchers changed their minds. 14% reconsidering. 81% no change. 48% willing to vote for Trump, 40% willing to vote for Biden I think it was 11% unwilling go vote for either 

So basically status quo ante.

[Sawbonz 27567]

17 minutes ago, troph said:

MSNBC live shot of Biden at a Waffle House - question from a patron - are you concerned about your performance? Biden says no… “it’s hard to debate a liar.”

put that clip on blast. 

Sure get some syrup in him and he’s a quote machine

[TexArcher 37949]

11 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

there is no conceivable scenario short of him dying in which replacing him improves the Democratic nominee's chance of beating Trump.

Sadly, I think this is right.  Biden just lost, and any possible replacement probably loses worse.

I don't see how the hell anyone can save this thing at this point.

This is so bad.

[SizzleChest 8284]

Just now, CTC2 said:

Tell me he didn’t. 

Van Jones is the Stephen A. Smith of Emmanuel Achos.

[linux 1660]

Just now, David Dennison said:

No, he didn't. He got his clock cleaned in the first debate, just like most incumbents.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2020/10/22/who-won-presidential-debate-trump-biden-nashville/3727213001/

It is beyond stupid "winning" these debates is so fucking stupid, specially in fucking June. Only a panicked civil war can fuck this up.

[wildcat09 29355]

In all seriousness they shouldn't bother trying to prep Biden with a bunch of data none of the viewers give a shit about. He's clearly most comfortable attacking Trump. Just let him do that 100% of the time.  The fact that the Dem campaigners and consulting class still thinks they need to prep for a debate on the issues is a huge part of the fucking problem with the party.

[linux 1660]

5 minutes ago, troph said:

CNN repeating the Waffle House story but didn’t state the “hard to debate a liar” I sweatergod CNN wants Trump. The “it’s hard to debate a liar” IS the Waffle House story Jesus Christ.

CNN is MAGA shit I knew after their new CEO took over.

[David Dennison 18915]

Just now, TexArcher said:

Sadly, I think this is right.  Biden just lost, and any possible replacement probably loses worse.

I don't see how the hell anyone can save this thing at this point.

This is so bad.

It's only bad if the Democratic Party splits, and that's entirely possible.

[dcbc 14487]

Not SIAP

 

 

[SizzleChest 8284]

1 minute ago, linux said:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2020/10/22/who-won-presidential-debate-trump-biden-nashville/3727213001/

It is beyond stupid "winning" these debates is so fucking stupid, specially in fucking June. Only a panicked civil war can fuck this up.

Who lost the debate? America.

[troph 24821]

9 minutes ago, linux said:

Just for the record also Trump "won" debates against Biden last time too, these debates are meaningless. This talk about Trump participating debates being Nixon vs Kennedy is so dumb beyond the pale.

 

According to CNN historical debate polls Biden won both in 2020. 

[DixonHur 11337]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

CNN flash poll 5% of debate watchers changed their minds. 14% reconsidering. 81% no change. 48% willing to vote for Trump, 40% willing to vote for Biden I think it was 11% unwilling go vote for either 

Any indication whether the 5% was all in the same direction?

[softlynow 1816]

1 minute ago, troph said:

CNN repeating the Waffle House story but didn’t state the “hard to debate a liar” I sweatergod CNN wants Trump. The “it’s hard to debate a liar” IS the Waffle House story Jesus Christ.

Nah. That's old news. Stories are new stuff. Hawk tuah, not Scottie Scheffler's arrest. Everyone who may actually watch CNN knows Trump is a liar. That's ancient history by their standards.

New drives clicks, sells ads. Run old shit, and you just lost someone to the Stanley Cup or to their TikTok feed.

If the Biden campaign is savvy, they'll break the news cycle with something new. Who knows, maybe they needed this to allow some ignored jr. staffer to run with some risky, but high upside stunt?

[linux 1660]

Just now, SizzleChest said:

Who lost the debate? America.

Its always the case, Trump won debates in the past and he got his ass cleaned In elections. and these victories came in October not June.

[SizzleChest 8284]

Just now, DixonHur said:

Any indication whether the 5% was all in the same direction?

IDMAS.

[C-Man 27230]

Michael Steele says, "Let Biden be Biden but make him realize how bad it was."

He also said Biden’s team “facted” him up too much and he got lost. Let Joe be Joe and go after Trump the man. Let him do his “C’mon, man” schtick and lay waste to Trump personally.

[David Dennison 18915]

The best way forward is for the party to support Joe Biden completely and without hesitation.

On the other hand, we're talking about the Democratic Party.

So, yeah.

[troph 24821]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

In all seriousness they shouldn't bother trying to prep Biden with a bunch of data none of the viewers give a shit about. He's clearly most comfortable attacking Trump. Just let him do that 100% of the time.  The fact that the Dem campaigners and consulting class still thinks they need to prep for a debate on the issues is a huge part of the fucking problem with the party.

Exactly. Pound him for his felony indictments convictions turning people against each other Jan 6 and just go on and on. Call him a liar every time. Look in the camera and ask Americans - do you really think this convicted felon is the guy to lead the country? 

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Any indication whether the 5% was all in the same direction?

No and to be fair Trump didn’t really do well it’s just Biden did so bad so it’s possible that’s a mix.

[David Dennison 18915]

Just now, troph said:

Exactly. Pound him for his felony indictments convictions turning people against each other Jan 6 and just go on and on. Call him a liar every time. Look in the camera and ask Americans - do you really think this convicted felon is the guy to lead the country? 

See, that's what you do in the second debate after the bad one is out of the way and forgotten about.

[TexArcher 37949]

Just now, David Dennison said:

The best way forward is for the party to support Joe Biden completely and without hesitation.

On the other hand, we're talking about the Democratic Party.

So, yeah.

Kamala and Gavin did that tonight.

But, yeah, they hadn't had time to react yet.

[troph 24821]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

The best way forward is for the party to support Joe Biden completely and without hesitation.

On the other hand, we're talking about the Democratic Party.

So, yeah.

A few hours later I unfortunately am coming around to this. @wildcat09 posted a very astute point about campaign infrastructure that is paramount.

[hobbes2702 13045]

6 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Sadly, I think this is right.  Biden just lost, and any possible replacement probably loses worse.

I don't see how the hell anyone can save this thing at this point.

This is so bad.

Biden has not lost the election tonight. Thats nonsense 

[softlynow 1816]

8 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Michael Steele says, "Let Biden be Biden but make him realize how bad it was."

Ex-Republicans really are the best allies these days. 

[Pancho 44856]

7 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

Van Jones is the Stephen A. Smith of Emmanuel Achos.

I cannot tell you how accurate this is.

[troph 24821]

3 minutes ago, C-Man said:

He also said Biden’s team “facted” him up too much and he got lost. Let Joe be Joe and go after Trump the man. Let him do his “C’mon, man” schtick and lay waste to Trump personally.

Drool emoji yes please. 
 

more “morality of an alley cat” jabs less policy. 

The other thing is it’s just those 5-6 states and it’s going to come down to execution and GOTV - they won on an anti Hillary vote we can win on an anti Trump vote.

[wildcat09 29355]

1 minute ago, softlynow said:

Ex-Republicans really are the best allies these days. 

They know marketing. Dems are policy wonk dorks who don't know fuck all about it.

[elfenix 34289]

2 hours ago, tbone_ said:

This is the fatal flaw in democracy that has been obvious to me since forever. Every moron gets a vote and they all count the same.

Always surprises me it doesn’t get discussed.

no, the morons in wyoming count 51x more than the morons in california

[jimmyjazz 45971]

Biden stepping aside ices the election for Trump.  100%.  Zero chance Trump loses.

Biden staying in, with all the issues, maybe puts his chances of winning at 30%-40%.  That's the play.  It sucks, but the Dems need to message things better than ever, and I have little hope of that.

[David Dennison 18915]

Just now, troph said:

Drool emoji yes please. 
 

more “morality of an alley cat” jabs less policy. 

The Biden campaign will learn a lot from tonight. First debates almost always go poorly for the incumbent. 

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Biden stepping aside ices the election for Trump.  100%.  Zero chance Trump loses.

Biden staying in, with all the issues, maybe puts his chances of winning at 30%-40%.  That's the play.  It sucks, but the Dems need to message things better than ever, and I have little hope of that.

Oh, his odds are much better than that.

[troph 24821]

“What are black jobs” retort appears to have some traction. 

[DixonHur 11337]

Just now, TexArcher said:

Kamala and Gavin did that tonight.

But, yeah, they hadn't had time to react yet.

Agreed, but it's not like you can lock Biden away until election day.

Anyone who hasn't noticed Biden's deteriorating state of being since the SOTU has either not been paying attention or is being intellectually dishonest.  

He's only 3 years older than Trump, but as someone on MSNBC said earlier, "it looks like 30".

At least 95% of us are rooting for Biden to win, but let's not minimize what our eyes and ears are telling us.

[troph 24821]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

They know marketing. Dems are policy wonk dorks who don't know fuck all about it.

[softlynow 1816]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

They know marketing. Dems are policy wonk dorks who don't know fuck all about it.

Which leads me to ask again, why the fuck did we have a June debate? I saw somewhere this was at the Dems urging.

If true, was it because they wanted a possible first run bomb to be buried 4.5 months before the election, with the nomination serving as a scripted bounce back?