The WAY too early June Presidential Debate thread

[Bullneck 19,130]

Wait, Icono is Macklemore?  Or do they just like the same music so much they have the same avatar?

[David Dennison 18,904]

1 minute ago, Bullneck said:

The problem as I understand it is, those delegates are already committed to Joe Biden because he won every primary.

[The_Great_Hornsby 3,236]

16 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

If only we could have seen this coming.

This. Hard to watch that disaster last night. Trump is a terrible candidate but somehow Biden looked even worse and made Trump look like the preferable choice by comparison. 

[linux 1,660]

I already explained it, a brokered convention without a primary for people to fall in line is democrat civil war, stop pretending that this is an option.

And the last time it happened both parties were brokered conventions meaning neither side benefited.

[BabaYaga 15,300]

37 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

“Democracy dies in the darkness.”

This is the first time a debate was held prior to the conventions.

And now we know why.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,270]

7 minutes ago, linux said:

Crushed in the first debate, which was fucking meaningless because it ended up being an election decided by a few points, are people as naive to think they really matter? people made up their minds, it is all GOTV now from now to Nov because this is a fucking retread.

 

I mean we now have Chuck Todd of all people talking panic, replacement... This isn't like 4yrs ago and it's not nothing 

 

 

 

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

Oh hi guys. What did I miss?

Glad I’m a white male because it certainly appears some others are fucked. Good luck America!  We are Thelma and Louise-ing the fuck out of this. 

[wildcat09 29,355]

Just now, linux said:

I already explained it, a brokered convention without a primary for people to fall in line is democrat civil war, stop pretending that this is an option.

And the last time it happened both parties were brokered conventions meaning neither side benefited.

A bunch of otherwise smart people are being extremely fucking stupid about this because they think politics works like it does on tv shows. They’re manifesting Trump’s own brain disease.

[David Dennison 18,904]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Oh hi guys. What did I miss?

Glad I’m a white male because it certainly appears some others are fucked. Good luck America!  We are Thelma and Louise-ing the fuck out of this. 

Hi! We're trying to figure out how to convince the most powerful man in the world to willingly give up that power. No big deal.

 

[Fastbreak 3,988]

We are going to start seeing some 56/44 type polls for Trump in the upcoming weeks. The dems need to get on top of this shit fast.

[The_Great_Hornsby 3,236]

1 minute ago, Fastbreak said:

We are going to start seeing some 56/44 type polls for Trump in the upcoming weeks. The dems need to get on top of this shit fast.

No way. 98% of the country had already made up their minds last night. That maybe affected the 2% of people who were worried about Biden being a vegetable. The polls will continue to be Biden +1 to Trump +4. 

[linux 1,660]

Its like they are being manipulated by the orange moron, part of the toxic candidate strategy is to demoralize YOU from voting.

This election is GOTV, that is it 100% people made a decision already and seniors died and more gen-z are onboard and they want to broker a convention?

Its done, I wish I could go back to 2016 and tell RBG Hillary to quit, but is done. There is no time machine and panicking is the real Trump victory of the debate. To convince people that it is possible to replace Biden, it is not.

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Hi! We're trying to figure out how to convince the most powerful man in the world to willingly give up that power. No big deal.

 

Oh. Hmm. Well, that’s above my pay grade. I’m going to vote against fascism in November, that I know. Then I’ll hopefully be enjoying a great season of Texas football and go to New Zealand in January. Maybe I won’t come back. 

[horncyclist 1,391]

I'm not that worried about party division. I think even Bernie can see the threat Trump poses and would fall in line. I could see consensus forming around Newsome pretty quickly.

[David Dennison 18,904]

2 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

We are going to start seeing some 56/44 type polls for Trump in the upcoming weeks. The dems need to get on top of this shit fast.

Meaning what, exactly? Picking the right person to convince Joe to give up the metaphorical car keys?

[David Dennison 18,904]

1 minute ago, horncyclist said:

I'm not that worried about party division. I think even Bernie can see the threat Trump poses and would fall in line. I could see consensus forming around Newsome pretty quickly.

That's not the biggest problem.

The biggest problem is convincing Joe Biden to stand down.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,270]

2 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

No way. 98% of the country had already made up their minds last night. That maybe affected the 2% of people who were worried about Biden being a vegetable. The polls will continue to be Biden +1 to Trump +4. 

Not a chance. Polls have already indicated it was a concern for people. I'd expect the DNC itself to orchestrate some polls showing a much larger lead to make replacement an easier option.

[wildcat09 29,355]

2 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

I'm not that worried about party division. I think even Bernie can see the threat Trump poses and would fall in line. I could see consensus forming around Newsome pretty quickly.

And I could see Sydney Sweeney and Rachel McAdams approaching me this afternoon for a threesome.

Jesus Christ people, how do you think black women, the actual fucking Democratic base voters, would react to a black woman VP being tossed overboard for a white man?

[horncyclist 1,391]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Meaning what, exactly? Picking the right person to convince Joe to give up the metaphorical car keys?

It needs to be pressure on Jill Biden and close advisers to tell him it's time for the good of the country. He could give a grand farewell, let's unite behind the next generation to beat Trump speech.

[David Dennison 18,904]

1 minute ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Not a chance. Polls have already indicated it was a concern for people. I'd expect the DNC itself to orchestrate some polls showing a much larger lead to make replacement an easier option.

Not unless Joe Biden agrees to it.

[horncyclist 1,391]

The other thing about the debate is that thanks to the format including lack of fact checking, Trump held it together and looked presidential by his standards. It'll provide some reassurance to those willing to vote for him and combined with the Biden disaster will further shift the polls.

[Chuckie Finster 22,694]

This election is GOTV, that is it

This is correct. Biden has his base, as does Trump. That is a given. Biden’s GOTV case (as it was in 2020) is that one of the candidates is clearly unfit for office, so vote for me.
Last night painted a picture of two unfit candidates, and that is not a path to victory for Dems. It’s not fair, but it’s reality.

[Captainant 27,680]

41 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I don’t think it was Biden’s ego; I think he (along with the vast majority of others) thought he was the best candidate due to incumbency, and until last night, he was right.  Even as recently as the SOTU Biden looked fit.  The way he looked last night was shocking.

I agree that how Biden looked was awful, but what do we expect from an octagenarian with a virus? I think it is dumb to run olds that are so vulnerable to stuff that someone under 60 could handle with more stamina and resiliency. 

But then again, when money directly equates to political power in our system, it's not terribly surprising that our political leaders represent that constituency of hoarding boomers more than the broad American public

[linux 1,660]

Just now, Chuckie Finster said:

This is correct. Biden has his base, as does Trump. That is a given. Biden’s GOTV case (as it was in 2020) is that one of the candidates is clearly unfit for office, so vote for me.
Last night painted a picture of two unfit candidates, and that is not a path to victory for Dems. It’s not fair, but it’s reality.

And Trump's case was that Biden was too old while he took the elephant, cow, tree test and aced it, AGAIN!

Its laughable that people think people just found out Biden is old and senile it was a debate point in 2020.

[956 Worldwide 34,715]

18 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

This. Hard to watch that disaster last night. Trump is a terrible candidate but somehow Biden looked even worse and made Trump look like the preferable choice by comparison. 

I hope that anyone who chooses a known felon who is a pathological liar who wants to destroy the democratic system over “old” never made fun of those women who chose the bear. 

[linux 1,660]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4745458-biden-debate-2024-drop-out/

President Biden is “not dropping out” of the 2024 race, a campaign official said following a shaky debate performance late Thursday that spurred talk among some Democrats of whether he should be replaced atop the ticket.

“Of course he’s not dropping out,” Biden campaign spokesperson Seth Schuster said in a text message.

The president himself brushed off talk over whether he should bow out during a stop at a Waffle House following the debate.

“No. It’s hard to debate a liar. The New York Times pointed out he lied 26 times,” he said, referring to former President Trump.

 

[Js1 85,372]

26? Did they forget a zero? 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,270]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Not unless Joe Biden agrees to it.

You pull all support and basically inform him he's putting himself over country and that's how he'll be forever remembered. No way he'd be ok with that. Someone in his inner circle can convince him.

[troph 24,817]

This is salvageable BUT thr cold narrative has to work and that means no more slip ups and I’m not sure he can do that. Survive one debate calling Trump a god damned liar, racist, cheat, rapist, and convicted felon every answer, toss in some policy wins so he doesn’t look like a robot and then nail the convention speech and get every fucking dem out there campaigning FOR Biden not with Biden. 

Edited June 28 by troph

[horncyclist 1,391]

I think donors and other connected people will get to the inner circle, including Jill, and they'll convince him. Our choices are either go with Biden and guarantee Trump -- absent some Trump having the massive heart attack we all hope for -- or an open convention and maybe Trump wins anyway but at least having a chance. That's where we are after last night. Now Biden just has to be convinced of it.

[Pancho 44,856]

It’s early but I’m not seeing a lot of “that debate changed my mind” from folks. 

If anything, I’ve seen more Blacks double down and say “we don’t give a shit about last night, we’re jivin with Joe in November.”

 

[Js1 85,372]

Just now, Pancho said:

It’s early but I’m not seeing a lot of “that debate changed my mind” from folks. 

 

Because it shouldn't

[Don Johnson 4,754]

If Dems were smart, they lean heavily into the ageism.  Find anyone young and hammer home that Trump will be older in 4 years than Biden is now.

99% of the pundits on CNN/MSNBC are speaking as if the Biden campaign is unsalvageable.  They clearly are trying to force a change in candidates.  I don't know how they can reverse course on this.

[David Dennison 18,904]

3 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

You pull all support and basically inform him he's putting himself over country and that's how he'll be forever remembered. No way he'd be ok with that. Someone in his inner circle can convince him.

The problem with that is, it's an empty threat. His campaign has the money and he controls all of the delegates by way of winning every primary.

Your only hope is the car key talk.

[linux 1,660]

Just now, troph said:

This is salvageable BUT thr cold narrative has to work and that means no more slip ups and I’m not sure he can do that. Survive one debate calling Trump a god damned liar, racist, cheat, and convicted felon every answer, toss in some policy wins so he doesn’t look like a robot and then nail the convention speech and get every fucking dem out there campaigning FOR Biden not with Biden. 

They just need to be presidential, show glimpses of Biden being president, morons are legit arguing "is he fit to be president?" he is president right the fuck now, use it.

I am actually kinda glad that they are getting a kick in the pants though policy wonks in the campaign need to be taken out and shoved out, and am glad we got to this point early. That was Hillary's cardinal sin.

[G650 14,263]

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

It’s early but I’m not seeing a lot of “that debate changed my mind” from folks. 

If anything, I’ve seen more Blacks double down and say “we don’t give a shit about last night, we’re jivin with Joe in November.”

 

I mean, I forgot there even was a debate last night.

[troph 24,817]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

It’s early but I’m not seeing a lot of “that debate changed my mind” from folks. 

If anything, I’ve seen more Blacks double down and say “we don’t give a shit about last night, we’re jivin with Joe in November.”

 

I found the “taking black jobs” line to be incredibly racist, several folks on line pounded him for that. Not sure the lasting reverb  but it could/should resonate. Trump is trash. That was only one comment that showed it, he’s got so many more. 

[Don Johnson 4,754]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

It’s early but I’m not seeing a lot of “that debate changed my mind” from folks. 

I agree, but the problem is I think there's a ton of apathy this morning.  No one is excited to vote for Biden anymore.  No one.  People will stay home.

"Vote for a senile old man that you feel sorry for because he's not Trump" will not win what was already going to be a close election.

[DaysOff 7,951]

8 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Also, who's running the country right now?

Because I wouldn't trust the guy I saw tonight to run a lemonade stand.

The 4,000 people he appointed or hired in the executive branch. That's who always runs the country on a day to day basis, Who do you want to do the hiring next time around?

I didn't watch because it's June and it went about as expected, but...

1) The people on the margins that decide elections weren't watching nor care in June.

2) Debate performance has negligible impacts on election day.

3) Macklemore/Icono- you're a bad person. In fact anyone supporting trump or any republican in the year of your made up lord is just a bad person given what we know now (coming from a former republican.) There's no other way to characterize these people.

[Don Johnson 4,754]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

I found the “taking black jobs” line to be incredibly racist, several folks on line pounded him for that. Not sure the lasting reverb  but it could/should resonate. Trump is trash. That was only one comment that showed it, he’s got so many more. 

 

[cabowabo 4,487]

Dems need to agree to release the Robert Hur interview recording to rehabilitate Joe. 

[Pancho 44,856]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

I found the “taking black jobs” line to be incredibly racist, several folks on line pounded him for that. Not sure the lasting reverb  but it could/should resonate. Trump is trash. That was only one comment that showed it, he’s got so many more. 

Oh but that line has produced some twitter gold and brought Black Twitter back baby!

 

2 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

 

You’re late. I posted it last night. I’m still laughing about it because it’s true

[linux 1,660]

4 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

I agree, but the problem is I think there's a ton of apathy this morning.  No one is excited to vote for Biden anymore.  No one.  People will stay home.

"Vote for a senile old man that you feel sorry for because he's not Trump" will not win what was already going to be a close election.

Funny that was the same playbook in 2020.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,474]

25 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Jesus Christ people, how do you think black women, the actual fucking Democratic base voters, would react to a black woman VP being tossed overboard for a white man?

No offense, but do you know many  black women? Being at the receiving end of multiple forms of systematic bias makes a person extraordinarily pragmatic. Representational concerns are a preoccupation of affluent white progressives, who are usually privileged by money, circumstance, or a combination thereof to avoid the consequences of losing elections.

But, for the record- even Kamala Harris would be a better option than Joe Biden at this point, and I think Biden has been a very good president. 

 

Edited June 28 by Bozo_Casanova

[SmokeyTheBear 5,562]

This shit boils down to Weekend at Bernies vs Project 2025. 

Give me walking corpse surrounded by competent handlers any day.  

Edited June 28 by SmokeyTheBear

[linux 1,660]

No offense and I know you are joking but Trump won by making his opponents be bitches, demoralizing decent people is the toxic candidate strategy 101. You do that and he wins.

 

['stache 21,818]

So what was actually said doesn’t matter. Cool. Trumps been a buffoon nonstop for a decade. He’s never been asked to go away. For those always crying that “dems don’t have a playbook” remember the rules are completely different. Yeah let’s get all 9 SCOTUS judges to be fascist because the other guy just feels too old. We deserve to lose democracy if that’s how it plays out.

[hookem2010 2,624]

34 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Oh. Hmm. Well, that’s above my pay grade. I’m going to vote against fascism in November, that I know. Then I’ll hopefully be enjoying a great season of Texas football and go to New Zealand in January. Maybe I won’t come back. 

Impeccable timing. You're going to want to take all of your camping gear. There are surely worse ways to experience the end of the world than as a hermit in the mountains of NZ, occasionally meandering into town to share beers with some kiwis.

[Sawbonz 27,566]

1 hour ago, linux said:

We had a a repeat of 4 years ago

No we didn’t. the Biden we saw last night looked nothing like he looked for years ago. Hell, he didn’t even look like he looked at the state of the union.

 

If he continues to look like that going forward, we have a huge problem

[TexArcher 37,898]

17 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

The 4,000 people he appointed or hired in the executive branch. That's who always runs the country on a day to day basis, Who do you want to do the hiring next time around?

I didn't watch because it's June and it went about as expected, but...

1) The people on the margins that decide elections weren't watching nor care in June.

2) Debate performance has negligible impacts on election day.

3) Macklemore/Icono- you're a bad person. In fact anyone supporting trump or any republican in the year of your made up lord is just a bad person given what we know now (coming from a former republican.) There's no other way to characterize these people.

I want to believe all of this.

But last night, all the talking heads on tv said they've been in contact with high ranking Democrats, and they're all in panic mode.  They're probably not overestimating this; if anything, this not-exactly-impartial political discussion board is likely underestimating it.

Trump didn't win any votes last night.  But how many reluctant Biden voters don't go out and vote now?  It's almost certainly a significant number, in a close race.  To think that last night doesn't move the needle at all is nuts.

Again, this was not a regular debate loss.  Those barely matter, if at all.  This was a big fucking deal.

Edited June 28 by TexArcher