The WAY too early June Presidential Debate thread

[tx 3 putt 76,423]

Trump lied on every answer, rather impressive 

 

 

[tx 3 putt 76,423]

 

[David Dennison 18,662]

If a quick perusal of the librul media is any indication, the next couple of weeks are going to be a hoot. The consensus among the punditocracy seems to be that Joe Biden needs to drop out ASAP for the good of the country. 

Buckle up.

[softlynow 1,786]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

If a quick perusal of the librul media is any indication, the next couple of weeks are going to be a hoot. The consensus among the punditocracy seems to be that Joe Biden needs to drop out ASAP for the good of the country. 

Buckle up.

Trump immunity ruling from SCOTUS stops that cycle.

[tx 3 putt 76,423]

1 minute ago, softlynow said:

Trump immunity ruling from SCOTUS stops that cycle.

he still has 3 more New York trials and Florida is releasing some Epstein files soon

 

[Derka 5,966]

Edited June 28 by Derka

[Hookah Horns 3,082]

Perhaps the most surprising thing to me was how Joe's voice sounded like a death rattle from the outset. I knew this country was fucked from the first moment I heard him start talking.

Aren't there, like, vocalization exercises they could have had him do immediately beforehand? He didn't sound like a zombie the last time I heard him speak. 

Not that it would've really mattered because he still would've been slow, confused, and had that lost look. 

That was just so depressing to witness. It gave me existential dread not only about the country, but my own mortality. Aging sucks ass. 

[Hookah Horns 3,082]

3 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Trump lied on every answer, rather impressive 

 

 

No fucking reason the moderators couldn't have done this contemporaneously. It was all his usual bullshit. The man is like a pull-string doll from hell. 

[TwiceHorn 31,310]

6 hours ago, Skipper said:

The point Rubio just made is the point the R's should be making to target the independent/undecided vote.  He basically said he takes no happiness from it but it was clear that the President struggled tonight and it concerns him what they might think about that in Beijing and Tehran.   Sadly he's right.  I'll still vote for Biden purely because of the threat to democracy that Trump poses but Biden has absolutely no business being president 4 more years.  If pretty much any R candidate other than Trump was running I would be strongly considering flipping that vote

What they'll think in Beijing and Tehran is Biden has a cabinet and administration that is not to be fucked with.  As opposed to an utterly incompetent POTUS and cabinet.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,417]

48 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

Perhaps the most surprising thing to me was how Joe's voice sounded like a death rattle from the outset. I knew this country was fucked from the first moment I heard him start talking.

Aren't there, like, vocalization exercises they could have had him do immediately beforehand? He didn't sound like a zombie the last time I heard him speak. 

Not that it would've really mattered because he still would've been slow, confused, and had that lost look. 

That was just so depressing to witness. It gave me existential dread not only about the country, but my own mortality. Aging sucks ass. 

The one thing going for Biden is even the GOP might somewhat slow down the dementia attacks because they would look mean. Guarantee the gop is discussing how to attack without making Biden appear sympathetic.

The worst part of the debate was taking time to wonder perhaps a 2nd trump term won’t be as bad as I fear.

[burntorangebongos 10,681]

 

Resting 25th amendment face.....damn that made me laugh and almost fucking cry at the same time. Fucking Jon Stewart nailed it. 

[Newy25 7,638]

7 hours ago, Bullneck said:

That's how a stupid person looks at it.  

A person who cares about saving the country from fascism says, "Hey, Newy25 considers the self-interested aspect but I'm more concerned about 200+ years of democracy."  

Do you understand now?

This post pretty much sums up how we got here. Hyperbole mixed with self delusion. That’s how you convince yourself that nominating someone who has no business running for president is the right move. 

[Newy25 7,638]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

What they'll think in Beijing and Tehran is Biden has a cabinet and administration that is not to be fucked with.  As opposed to an utterly incompetent POTUS and cabinet.

I don’t think this is how it’s going to play out. Your president cannot be Weekend at Bernie’s and your country be taken seriously. 

[Bullneck 19,021]

2 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

This post pretty much sums up how we got here. Hyperbole mixed with self delusion. That’s how you convince yourself that nominating someone who has no business running for president is the right move. 

Doubling down on the stupid, eh?

Please show me the hyperbole.  And then the self-delusion.

And now for the inaccurate: Biden's performance got him in the position he's in. 

[Newy25 7,638]

6 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Doubling down on the stupid, eh?

Please show me the hyperbole.  And then the self-delusion.

And now for the inaccurate: Biden's performance got him in the position he's in. 

You are right. The notion that is was a bad idea to run Biden again is fucking stupid. That’s clear for everyone to see. At least pretend to not be surprised when Trump is elected. 

[956 Worldwide 34,475]

Count me in the camp that didn’t watch and doesn’t think a debate in June is particularly significant.  I’d have much rather had Joe refuse to take the stage with DJT on the grounds that DJT is a felon and that you can’t debate with lies. Beyond that, debates are a relic of a different information era when you couldn’t compare policies and character 24/7 in real time. 
 

But the old thing is a problem and is the reason JB has to get on stage.  If he refuses then that avenue of an attack will just sink him. 

The best Biden can do in these things is hold serve.  I think Trump’s cognitive function is likely worse than Biden’s but it manifests differently and his supporters embrace it.

[Anastasis 23,401]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

What they'll think in Beijing and Tehran is Biden has a cabinet and administration that is not to be fucked with.  As opposed to an utterly incompetent POTUS and cabinet.

Lloyd goes missing for days on end and blinken/state is a clown show. Might want to have some iodine tablets handy just in case. 

[TwiceHorn 31,310]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Lloyd goes missing for days on end and blinken/state is a clown show. Might want to have some iodine tablets handy just in case. 

For all of that, still much better than the rotation of secretaries under Trump, many of whom were demagogue know-nothings.

[TexArcher 37,533]

6 hours ago, David Dennison said:

I posted this in the other thread, but remember, kids . . .

And that was one month before the election.

Breathe.

This is such a bad comparison, though.

Obama lost a debate on issues.

Biden convinced the entire country that he is not mentally competent to serve as president.

It's not the same thing.

[Anastasis 23,401]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

For all of that, still much better than the rotation of secretaries under Trump, many of whom were demagogue know-nothings.

You said “Biden has a cabinet and administration that is not to be fucked with”. I am sure that Xi would find that characterization humorous. 

[Kringelbert Fishtybuns 943]

21 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

I don’t think this is how it’s going to play out. Your president cannot be Weekend at Bernie’s and your country be taken seriously. 

Meh.  We made it through Ronnie’s second stint in one piece.  Well, unless you contracted a certain virus that didn’t exist until Rock Hudson died.

[DixonHur 11,236]

I can't remember if I saw it on Surly or somewhere else, but someone dubbed him Ruth Bader Biden a few weeks ago and last night I felt it.

He and the Democratic party are fucking around, and the rest of us are about to find out 

[linux 1,659]

1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

This is such a bad comparison, though.

Obama lost a debate on issues.

Biden convinced the entire country that he is not mentally competent to serve as president.

It's not the same thing.

Except he is president right now and doing well, this is pretty dumb argument, all he has to do is presidential stuff tomorrow and that line of thinking is obliterated.

The issue is that democrats are panicky fuckers and want something that can't happen another candidate without rerunning the primary process which is impossible. Its done Biden was never my candidate but it is done. Its like asking a new coach for the playoffs.

Biden as a mentally handicapped old man sounded way rougher when he was retired and coming back from retirment, not when he is currently leading the country.

 

[Captainant 27,479]

2 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

He and the Democratic party are fucking around, and the rest of us are about to find out 

[linux 1,659]

2 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I can't remember if I saw it on Surly or somewhere else, but someone dubbed him Ruth Bader Biden a few weeks ago and last night I felt it.

He and the Democratic party are fucking around, and the rest of us are about to find out 

If he died it might actually be better, all national elections where the candidate died before the polls had them winning the election all 4 of them.

[Snake Diggity 4,614]

6 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

30-40% is not even close. Look at the map and tell me what states Trump turns to win the election 

A disaster like that, if the narrative coming out of it sticks, is more than enough to be the difference in GA, AZ, NV, and WI, and puts PA, MI, and MN potentially in play.  This shit is not a joke.  At this point I am a hard core anti-Trump voter and even I am desperate for any alternative to Biden, because what I saw last night is a person not just unfit to serve as president, but someone that needs a caretaker (note: if it is indeed Trump vs Biden, I am voting Biden without hesitation); this isn’t a joke and we shouldn’t underestimate how bad Biden came off and the impact it might have.

6 hours ago, Red Five said:

1) There was no winner tonight. Those were the two worst debate performances I’ve ever seen.

2) There is a difference between being able to do the job, and winning an election. I think Biden can do the job, right now, but I don’t think he can win the election. And beating this convicted felon rapist who most of the country fucking hates should be a layup.

3) If a situation occurs where Biden steps down, which dem candidate would have the best chance of beating Trump? Because that’s all that matters now.

3.) Any of Newsom, Whitmer, Beshear, Shapiro, or Pritzker would likely beat Trump if the party (including Biden) was completely unified behind them by July 15th.  Buttigieg is probably the best candidate and Kamala is the logical choice but sadly a gay man or a black woman would kill turnout and can not win a presidential election this year.

Edited June 28 by Snake Diggity

[linux 1,659]

3.) Any of Newsom, Whitmer, Beshear, Shapiro, or Pritzker would likely beat Trump if the party (including Biden) was completely unified behind them by July 15th.  Buttigieg is probably the best candidate and Kamala is the logical choice but sadly a gay man or a black woman would kill turnout and can win a presidential election this year.

And how do you pick them without a primary? have you people not realized what you are asking?

 

[DixonHur 11,236]

2 minutes ago, linux said:

If he died it might actually be better, all national elections where the candidate died before the polls had them winning the election all 4 of them.

I'd prefer Trump died, but at this point I'll take what I can get.

[linux 1,659]

Just now, DixonHur said:

I'd prefer Trump died, but at this point I'll take what I can get.

Stop asking for miracles, there is no god, work hard with the hand you are dealt, I don't see anyone here vowing to volunteer their time, if anything that should be what we take from the debate, not panic, but need to roll up our sleeves.

[Snake Diggity 4,614]

1 minute ago, linux said:

 

 

And how do you pick them without a primary? have you people not realized what you are asking?

 

It would be unprecedented as far as I know.  There would have to be swift back door dealings (likely led by Biden/Harris) to make it happen.

[linux 1,659]

Just now, Snake Diggity said:

It would be unprecedented as far as I know.  There would have to be swift back door dealings (likely led by Biden/Harris) to make it happen.

Aka democrat civil war and Trump presidency.

 

[Anastasis 23,401]

2 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

It would be unprecedented as far as I know.  There would have to be swift back door dealings (likely led by Biden/Harris) to make it happen.

“Democracy dies in the darkness.”

[horncyclist 1,386]

2 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

A disaster like that, if the narrative coming out of it sticks, is more than enough to be the difference in GA, AZ, NV, and WI, and puts PA, MI, and MN potentially in play.  This shit is not a joke.  At this point I am a hard core anti-Trump voter and even I am desperate for any alternative to Biden, because what I saw last night is a person not just unfit to serve as president, but someone that needs a caretaker (note: if it is indeed Trump vs Biden, I am voting Biden without hesitation); this isn’t a joke and we shouldn’t underestimate how bad Biden came off and the impact it might have.

3.) Any of Newsom, Whitmer, Beshear, Shapiro, or Pritzker would likely beat Trump if the party (including Biden) was completely unified behind them by July 15th.  Buttigieg is probably the best candidate and Kamala is the logical choice but sadly a gay man or a black woman would kill turnout and can win a presidential election this year.

 

3 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

A disaster like that, if the narrative coming out of it sticks, is more than enough to be the difference in GA, AZ, NV, and WI, and puts PA, MI, and MN potentially in play.  This shit is not a joke.  At this point I am a hard core anti-Trump voter and even I am desperate for any alternative to Biden, because what I saw last night is a person not just unfit to serve as president, but someone that needs a caretaker (note: if it is indeed Trump vs Biden, I am voting Biden without hesitation); this isn’t a joke and we shouldn’t underestimate how bad Biden came off and the impact it might have.

3.) Any of Newsom, Whitmer, Beshear, Shapiro, or Pritzker would likely beat Trump if the party (including Biden) was completely unified behind them by July 15th.  Buttigieg is probably the best candidate and Kamala is the logical choice but sadly a gay man or a black woman would kill turnout and can win a presidential election this year.

An Open convention would open up the veep spot as well. Maybe a Newsome-Whitmer ticket? She could bring Michigan and much of the Midwest. Newsomes the top alternative in all of the betting markets.

 

What's infuriating is the better outcome would have been an open primary for all of these people to elevate their profiles and then everyone unite behind a candid to bear Trump. Biden's ego and selfishness made it so much more likely Trump, with all his flaws, could be reelected 

[Sawbonz 27,445]

2 minutes ago, linux said:

 

 

And how do you pick them without a primary? have you people not realized what you are asking?

 

The convention votes on a motion to change the bylaws. The bylaws are changed releasing delegates from their obligation to vote for the primary winner in their state. They vote; choosing among the primary participants. If no one gets over 50% you have a brokered convention

[choripan 790]

What the fuck? Did they quit making smoky backrooms or something?

As a Detroiter, would love to see Whitmer. She's the kind of level-headed Dem that just makes shit work and attracts votes from the middle/undecideds. She fucks. Then Detroit mayor Duggan can keep kicking ass in the Gov's office and Lt. Gov Gilchrist can go run Detroit. All three of them fuck.

[linux 1,659]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

The convention votes on a motion to change the bylaws. The bylaws are changed releasing delegates from their obligation to vote for the primary winner in their state. They vote; choosing among the primary participants. If no one gets over 50% you have a brokered convention

Aka not through the ballot box, aka Democrat civil war, the left will have their candidate the center will have their candidate the never trumpers will have their candidate and none of them will win a single election telling the rest to shut up and fall in line.

The last brokered conventions were in the 50s which is as ancient as the Nixon vs Kennedy debate.

[Snake Diggity 4,614]

6 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

 

An Open convention would open up the veep spot as well. Maybe a Newsome-Whitmer ticket? She could bring Michigan and much of the Midwest. Newsomes the top alternative in all of the betting markets.

 

What's infuriating is the better outcome would have been an open primary for all of these people to elevate their profiles and then everyone unite behind a candid to bear Trump. Biden's ego and selfishness made it so much more likely Trump, with all his flaws, could be reelected 

I don’t think it was Biden’s ego; I think he (along with the vast majority of others) thought he was the best candidate due to incumbency, and until last night, he was right.  Even as recently as the SOTU Biden looked fit.  The way he looked last night was shocking.

[Sawbonz 27,445]

5 minutes ago, linux said:

Aka not through the ballot box, aka Democrat civil war, the left will have their candidate the center will have their candidate the never trumpers will have their candidate and none of them will win a single election telling the rest to shut up and fall in line.

The last brokered conventions were in the 50s which is as ancient as the Nixon vs Kennedy debate.

When was the last time we had an 81 yo candidate?

[Anastasis 23,401]

7 minutes ago, linux said:

The last brokered conventions were in the 50s which is as ancient as the Nixon vs Kennedy debate.

But still not as ancient as either of the candidates in 2024. What a world. 

[cabowabo 4,453]

Was that performance last night a cheap fake or a deep fake?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,417]

20 minutes ago, linux said:

 

 

And how do you pick them without a primary? have you people not realized what you are asking?

 

The only method is if Biden drops out before the convention. Then the convention has the expectation and power to select someone else.

[linux 1,659]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

When was the last time we had an 81 yo candidate?

We had a a repeat of 4 years ago, the fact that people are panicking over the same strategy that won 2020 is extremely pathetic.

Go ahead divide the party 4 months before an election, what a stupid call democrats are fucking idiots, there are no possible primaries that can quiet dissent, its done. 

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The only method is if Biden drops out before the convention. Then the convention has the expectation and power to select someone else.

No shit nobody denies this, the problem is that there is a democrat civil war after it.

[David Dennison 18,662]

If only we could have seen this coming.

[LTbear 4,161]

5 minutes ago, linux said:

We had a a repeat of 4 years ago, the fact that people are panicking over the same strategy that won 2020 is extremely pathetic.

 

Look, no we didn't. If you think staying the course is the best move that's completely understandable and defensible, but comments like this are just off. Biden crushed it in the 2020 debate, despite old Donny being at peak cray cray the whole way through. People are panicking because 1) the stakes are even higher, and 2) Biden had one overarching narrative he needed to quell, and instead he threw gasoline on the fire. 

[linux 1,659]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

If only we could have seen this coming.

Everybody saw it coming, I saw it coming in 2020, its done though, there is no point wanting to change the past. Biden wins the stupid primaries of stupid democrats and there is nothing I can do about it, contested or uncontested he won them so he told us in the left to shut up and fall in line, not to write in Bernie Sanders.

You threaten RBG to retire when Obama was president not when Donny was president. People need to understand the point of no return was crossed months ago.

[David Dennison 18,662]

Just now, LTbear said:

Look, no we didn't. If you think staying the course is the best move that's completely understandable and defensible, but comments like this are just off. Biden crushed it in the 2020 debate, despite old Donny being at peak cray cray the whole way through. People are panicking because 1) the stakes are even higher, and 2) Biden had one overarching narrative he needed to quell, and instead he threw gasoline on the fire. 

It probably wasn't a great idea to nominate Joe Biden in 2020. 

 

 

[SimonBolivar 10,945]

10 minutes ago, linux said:

We had a a repeat of 4 years ago, the fact that people are panicking over the same strategy that won 2020 is extremely pathetic.

I watched every second of every debate 4 years ago and there is no comparison between the two. Last night wasn't about any debate point or tactic at all.

 

I'm also not scared of any party civil war with Trump on the other side in 2024. Especially with most of the country begging constantly for a younger candidate from either party.

[linux 1,659]

1 minute ago, LTbear said:

Look, no we didn't. If you think staying the course is the best move that's completely understandable and defensible, but comments like this are just off. Biden crushed it in the 2020 debate, despite old Donny being at peak cray cray the whole way through. People are panicking because 1) the stakes are even higher, and 2) Biden had one overarching narrative he needed to quell, and instead he threw gasoline on the fire. 

Crushed in the first debate, which was fucking meaningless because it ended up being an election decided by a few points, are people as naive to think they really matter? people made up their minds, it is all GOTV now from now to Nov because this is a fucking retread.

 

[linux 1,659]

1 minute ago, SimonBolivar said:

I watched every second of every debate 4 years ago and there is no comparison between the two. Last night wasn't about any debate point or tactic at all.

 

I'm also not scared of any party civil war with Trump on the other side in 2024. Especially with most of the country begging constantly for a younger candidate from either party.

They begged the same shit in 2020. It did not matter.

[Bullneck 19,021]

39 minutes ago, linux said:

 

 

And how do you pick them without a primary? have you people not realized what you are asking?