The WAY too early June Presidential Debate thread

[MrBig 5290]

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Trump was old and fat, but happened to capture lightning in a bottle in 2016 between his ego, the politically sidelined white stupids, Obama leaving office, etc.  

Biden was already old, but was so juiced in by the Clinton/Obama Democratic machine, he was picked to end the madness of Trump.  

The Republicans fell completely in lock-step with Trump from 2021 to 2024.  The Democrats had that same span of time to let Joe surround himself with very capable people to take care of some very serious issues, and they did just that.  They also had that same timespan to groom and introduce a new candidate for 2024 that wouldn't undermine Joe's efforts on important goals.  There is a way to do that, and they fucked it up at every turn.  So this is what we get.  Obviously not as significant as POTUS, but there are very substantial institutions, corporations, lower elected offices, etc. that have someone take the reins while a younger person is prepped for taking over in the intermediate-term timeline.  It's a delicate balance but there are tens of thousands of examples of how it can be done effectively.  But nope, the Democratic party said, "Yeah, we're 50/50 with a convicted felon and rapist...we could plan ahead...or we could just take the coin toss."  

Biden will never step down. He has wanted to be president forever and he’s not going to back down to an asshole like Trump.

The Dems know they are in deep shit and they have a two fold problem: 1) Biden will never ever step down and 2) if by some chance he did step down (or worse), nobody wants to jump on the grenade and take the nomination to “save democracy” because it will seriously fuck up their chances in 2028 if they lose. One loss to Donald Trump and your political career is fucking over. 

With a Biden loss, I think there’s no way Kamala can get the nomination in 2028. This is actually good for a candidate like Newsom. Not only does it pave the way to push Kamala aside, it is a path to the presidency without having to directly go against Trump (assuming he leaves after his second term). 

A Biden victory is obviously good but it creates another problem for 2028 because there is no way in hell Kamala steps aside to let somebody else run in 2028. Yeah she looked good on TV talking to all the pundits but she is part of the problem if she can’t see that the optics of this were fucking terrible. 

[hobbes2702 12850]

13 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah, tons of people thought he was too old in 2020.  There's a whole lot of revisionist history going on up in here.

I'd bet good money that more than 90% of the posters freaking out right now thought to an absolute certainty after 1/6 that Trump wouldn't run again and that if he did he wouldn't be the nominee. I bet all of you thought DeSantis would crush him. 

The thing that I find strange about the panic right now, if you actually watched the debate, he was fine after the first 15 mins. The open was really tough, no doubt. But after the debate got going he was basically the same old guy he’s been. This wasn’t some new revelation or some massive decline as some as making it out to be.

[Don Johnson 4745]

3 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Someone mentioned upthread the incomprehensible gap between being a President and running for President.  

I think Biden has done an absolutely amazing job of building an administration around very capable people who can handle tough shit and look good doing it.  He can't run on that, because it makes him seem feeble and not truly in charge.  But he's getting shit done by having great people do great stuff.  Well, cat's outta the bag now DNC.  Joe's done a fine enough job making himself look feeble.  May as well pivot to his team and record, what the fuck else do you have to lose?  

Kamala did a pretty good job last night on CNN, despite being given shit to work with.  Anderson Cooper kept asking her "Is the Joe Biden that we saw out there tonight, the same Joe Biden that you see in the Oval Office?"  And he wasn't going to let that go.  She avoided the question well and said the Joe Biden that she sees in the Oval Office accomplished XYZ.

Still, its hard to motivate people to vote for a team behind a president, because they are the ones actually getting stuff done.

IMO, CNN/MSNBC felt some sort of journalistic duty to ask "who is running the country right now?"

[wildcat09 29268]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

Panicking in the 2nd quarter is funny. Biden didn't do well in debates with Trump in 2020 either. He is old and has to fight a stutter against a bullshitter. It is a bad debate combo, especially if moderators aren't fact checking. CNN wants drama, so this is what we get. Ultimately, I don't think this debate matters come election time. You'll see clips of Biden being old and clips of Trump lying, hating, and deflecting. Neither are going to come across well. But Trump isn't pulling in independents with this performance and Biden isn't losing dem voters. Now, do I think someone like Buttigieg would likely have crushed Trump? Absolutely. 

And it wouldn't have mattered because the debates don't matter. If anything, the way Pete would've crushed him would've probably gotten Trump more support from white blue collar workers who would've thought Pete was a smarmy elitist gayboy they would never vote for. 

Median voters and the people who post in the CR have zero in common. It's two completely separate circles. They're basically aliens to us and we to them. The shit that panics political sickos often doesn't matter one bit to median voters and we're usually really fucking wrong about the things we think make a good political candidate. It's basically the same race today as it was on Wednesday.

[troph 24577]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Panicking in the 2nd quarter is funny. Biden didn't do well in debates with Trump in 2020 either. He is old and has to fight a stutter against a bullshitter. It is a bad debate combo, especially if moderators aren't fact checking. CNN wants drama, so this is what we get. Ultimately, I don't think this debate matters come election time. You'll see clips of Biden being old and clips of Trump lying, hating, and deflecting. Neither are going to come across well. But Trump isn't pulling in independents with this performance and Biden isn't losing dem voters. Now, do I think someone like Buttigieg would likely have crushed Trump? Absolutely. 

the fundamental question is GOTV in 6-7 states. Is the anti-Trump, pro-abortion vote enough to win? There will be very little enthusiasm for Biden, there will be a ton of enthusiasm for Trump, so Trump enthusiasm vs anti-Trump/pro-abortion motivations are the determining factor and then only in states like MI, PA, WI, GA, AZ, NV, NC.

[Jerry Callo 8667]

None of the above would win in a landslide

[wildcat09 29268]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

The thing that I find strange about the panic right now, if you actually watched the debate, he was fine after the first 15 mins. The open was really tough, no doubt. But after the debate got going he was basically the same old guy he’s been. This wasn’t some new revelation or some massive decline as some as making it out to be.

A lot of posters who spent the last 3.5 years convincing themselves another Trump term isn't possible finally woke up last night. That's all this is.  

[Dahobbs 17451]

3 minutes ago, troph said:

the fundamental question is GOTV in 6-7 states. Is the anti-Trump, pro-abortion vote enough to win? There will be very little enthusiasm for Biden, there will be a ton of enthusiasm for Trump, so Trump enthusiasm vs anti-Trump/pro-abortion motivations are the determining factor and then only in states like MI, PA, WI, GA, AZ, NV, NC.

That was always going to be the case. The Dems, as a big tent party, aren't usually going to have rabid enthusiasm. There is too much internal conflict. What they do have is a common desire to not see the other guy win, especially if the other guy is Trump.  

[The_Great_Hornsby 3329]

2 minutes ago, MrBig said:

Biden will never step down. He has wanted to be president forever and he’s not going to back down to an asshole like Trump.

The Dems know they are in deep shit and they have a two fold problem: 1) Biden will never ever step down and 2) if by some chance he did step down (or worse), nobody wants to jump on the grenade and take the nomination to “save democracy” because it will seriously fuck up their chances in 2028 if they lose. One loss to Donald Trump and your political career is fucking over. 

With a Biden loss, I think there’s no way Kamala can get the nomination in 2028. This is actually good for a candidate like Newsom. Not only does it pave the way to push Kamala aside, it is a path to the presidency without having to directly go against Trump (assuming he leaves after his second term). 

A Biden victory is obviously good but it creates another problem for 2028 because there is no way in hell Kamala steps aside to let somebody else run in 2028. Yeah she looked good on TV talking to all the pundits but she is part of the problem if she can’t see that the optics of this were fucking terrible. 

Oh come on dude, you sound like the nutjob right wingers that thought Obama wouldn't leave. 

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

28 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

The Lincoln Party and republicans against trump will have to do the messaging because the DNC is too incompetent. 

Absolutely.  It’s the only hope.  I think I’d vote Kennedy over Biden if that was the choice on the D ticket.  Because he would have a much better chance of stopping Trump.  Let that sink in…

[closetohumping 17407]

4 minutes ago, MrBig said:

Biden will never step down. He has wanted to be president forever and he’s not going to back down to an asshole like Trump.

The Dems know they are in deep shit and they have a two fold problem: 1) Biden will never ever step down and 2) if by some chance he did step down (or worse), nobody wants to jump on the grenade and take the nomination to “save democracy” because it will seriously fuck up their chances in 2028 if they lose. One loss to Donald Trump and your political career is fucking over. 

With a Biden loss, I think there’s no way Kamala can get the nomination in 2028. This is actually good for a candidate like Newsom. Not only does it pave the way to push Kamala aside, it is a path to the presidency without having to directly go against Trump (assuming he leaves after his second term). 

A Biden victory is obviously good but it creates another problem for 2028 because there is no way in hell Kamala steps aside to let somebody else run in 2028. Yeah she looked good on TV talking to all the pundits but she is part of the problem if she can’t see that the optics of this were fucking terrible. 

I’m not worried about 28.  I’m worried about Cheeto becoming president now and that looks very likely

[linux 1659]

Kennedy can never win it is mathematically impossible stop being fifth columnists.

[troph 24577]

3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

The thing that I find strange about the panic right now, if you actually watched the debate, he was fine after the first 15 mins. The open was really tough, no doubt. But after the debate got going he was basically the same old guy he’s been. This wasn’t some new revelation or some massive decline as some as making it out to be.

it was bad, no doubt, and it does project weakness to everyone. but one of the elephants in the room is his disability. I suspect his mastery over his stuttering is waning as he ages. so he looks way worse than he is. I suspect some of that causes him to lose his train of thought. we've all had that happen, now imagine you are older, and your youthful stuttering problem is back, panic, now your train of thought is gone. I actually think he's not senile, I think he's just old and for appearance purposes, the debate stage is where he looks the worst.

[The_Great_Hornsby 3329]

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I’m not worried about 28.  I’m worried about Cheeto becoming president now and that looks very likely

4 more years of trump is just 4 more years of split government and nothing getting accomplished, and then we get fresh young candidates in 2028. Some of yall are very dramatic. Life will go on and 2028 will be a chance for America to emerge from this period of time with a much better future. Just sucks that this cycle is basically washed, because nothing I saw on stage was inspiring last night. 

[YGIFS 19449]

1 minute ago, Don Johnson said:

Kamala did a pretty good job last night on CNN, despite being given shit to work with.  Anderson Cooper kept asking her "Is the Joe Biden that we saw out there tonight, the same Joe Biden that you see in the Oval Office?"  And he wasn't going to let that go.  She avoided the question well and said the Joe Biden that she sees in the Oval Office accomplished XYZ.

Still, its hard to motivate people to vote for a team behind a president, because they are the ones actually getting stuff done.

IMO, CNN/MSNBC felt some sort of journalistic duty to ask "who is running the country right now?"

Yeah, I get it.  There's a reason "Look at my wonderful staff and cabinet!" has never been a highly run messaging effort in 99% of campaigns.  

[wildcat09 29268]

Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

4 more years of trump is just 4 more years of split government and nothing getting accomplished, and then we get fresh young candidates in 2028. Some of yall are very dramatic. Life will go on and 2028 will be a chance for America to emerge from this period of time with a much better future. Just sucks that this cycle is basically washed, because nothing I saw on stage was inspiring last night. 

There's virtually no scenario in which Trump wins the White House and the GOP doesn't also take the House and Senate.

[linux 1659]

Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

4 more years of trump is just 4 more years of split government and nothing getting accomplished, and then we get fresh young candidates in 2028. Some of yall are very dramatic. Life will go on and 2028 will be a chance for America to emerge from this period of time with a much better future. Just sucks that this cycle is basically washed, because nothing I saw on stage was inspiring last night. 

Funny I remember a pandemic, I remember unemployment reaching an all time high, I remember an economy that was saved by the greatest deficit spending of all time, I also remember him egging on Putin to start WWIII.

Funnily enough a second term would be worse.

[Gap03 3287]

1 minute ago, closetohumping said:

I’m not worried about 28.  I’m worried about Cheeto becoming president now and that looks very likely

This is the thing.  People really need to realize that, with Project 2025, the Dems may not ever be able to unfuck everything that Trump and co do in the next 4 years.  And that assumes that they are able to get elected, which assumes that (1) there are functioning elections in 2028 and beyond and (2) Americans have enough sense to realize that the Republicans are the ones that are fucking them. 

To reiterate, we are totally fucked.  Totes fucked.  

[The_Great_Hornsby 3329]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

There's virtually no scenario in which Trump wins the White House and the GOP doesn't also take the House and Senate.

A simple majority isn't enough to pass legislation. The filibuster isnt going anywhere. Neither party will ever give that up, nor should they. Trump isnt getting supermajority numbers. All meaningful legislation will need to be bipartisan. 

[hobbes2702 12850]

1 minute ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

4 more years of trump is just 4 more years of split government and nothing getting accomplished, and then we get fresh young candidates in 2028. Some of yall are very dramatic. Life will go on and 2028 will be a chance for America to emerge from this period of time with a much better future. Just sucks that this cycle is basically washed, because nothing I saw on stage was inspiring last night. 

4 more years of Trump also means my friends can’t make decisions about their own bodily autonomy, lgbtq are persecuted and demonized, millions of hard working people are kicked out of the country for being brown, our schools continue to decline, and on and on.

Hand waving another Trump term as just 4 years of split govt is an extremely privileged viewpoint.

[wildcat09 29268]

Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

A simple majority isn't enough to pass legislation. The filibuster isnt going anywhere. Neither party will ever give that up, nor should they. Trump isnt getting supermajority numbers. All meaningful legislation will need to be bipartisan. 

Oh yeah, I'm sure the guy who is running as a dictator and who can wield his supporters to launch infinite death threats against anyone they hate will have a ton of trouble getting GOP Senators to go along with whatever he tells them to do.  

[immamac 42539]

5 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

4 more years of trump is just 4 more years of split government and nothing getting accomplished, and then we get fresh young candidates in 2028. Some of yall are very dramatic. Life will go on and 2028 will be a chance for America to emerge from this period of time with a much better future. Just sucks that this cycle is basically washed, because nothing I saw on stage was inspiring last night. 

That's not what it is. Trump is going to fuck things to a point of collapse. 2016-2020 was an absolute shit show even before COVID. 

[Dbeasy 14971]

Random thoughts after reading about the results, and not having witnessed it myself. 

Many Democrat supporters are acknowledging that Biden is now problematic as a candidate. That is huge. I see no path to a win.

There are many people like me that will vote for a dead body over Trump, but there aren’t enough of us.

If the Democrats found a really likes le celebrity like The Rock, he would beat Trump badly.  But if they don’t do that:

A Trump win probably means the world bands together and creates a basket of securities to trade in, rather than the dollar, creating an economic earthquake like the world has never seen, and a major serious debt problem for the US.

Russia will takeover Ukraine in exchange for Trump securing a deal for he and his kids to build casinos in Russia. Putin will then take Moldova too, and another “ania” country.

China will take over Taiwan, but only after Trump secures favors for many billionaire supporters and himself in China.

Social security and Medicare will be gutted significantly, hurting 70% of Americans retiring in the next 20 years.
 
One percent wealth will skyrocket even further, while the 50% will devolve deeper into the abyss. If you thought crime was bad now, just wait.

 

 

 

 

 

[hobbes2702 12850]

Jesus Christ maybe try watching first before suggesting a fucking pro wrestler for president. Some of yall seriously saying moronic shit today.

[linux 1659]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

Random thoughts after reading about the results, and not having witnessed it myself. 

Many Democrat supporters are acknowledging that Biden is now problematic as a candidate. That is huge. I see no path to a win.

There are many people like me that will vote for a dead body over Trump, but there aren’t enough of us.

If the Democrats found a really likes le celebrity like The Rock, he would beat Trump badly.  But if they don’t do that:

A Trump win probably means the world bands together and creates a basket of securities to trade in, rather than the dollar, creating an economic earthquake like the world has never seen, and a major serious debt problem for the US.

Russia will takeover Ukraine in exchange for Trump securing a deal for he and his kids to build casinos in Russia. Putin will then take Moldova too, and another “ania” country.

China will take over Taiwan, but only after Trump secures favors for many billionaire supporters and himself in China.

Social security and Medicare will be gutted significantly, hurting 70% of Americans retiring in the next 20 years.
 
One percent wealth will skyrocket even further, while the 50% will devolve deeper into the abyss. If you thought crime was bad now, just wait.

 

 

 

 

 

Lol this is still best case scenarios, last time millions died in a pandemic, next up is WWIII using nukes, he is dying to use them.

[The_Great_Hornsby 3329]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

4 more years of Trump also means my friends can’t make decisions about their own bodily autonomy, lgbtq are persecuted and demonized, millions of hard working people are kicked out of the country for being brown, our schools continue to decline, and on and on.

Hand waving another Trump term as just 4 years of split govt is an extremely privileged viewpoint.

Eh, agree to disagree. I appreciate your thoughts though. I am a tried and true moderate and most of this feels pretty dramatic imo. Our lives have changed very little from 2016 to now, with the exception being abortion (and inflation). I am of the thought that the border does need to be more secure, but we don't need to round people up and deport unless they are criminals. I have never seen any LGBTQ person be treated improperly since 2014 in my smaller town in Texas, and there are plenty of LGBTQ here where that could happen. 

[Hank Kingsley 20722]

1. I don't think it's fair to frame it that Biden himself is the decision maker on whether or not he should continue to be the candidate. I don't think the real players in the Democratic Party machine want him to be replaced. That is admitting defeat and these people are way too arrogant to change course. 

2. Maybe a positive that comes out of this is leaning on surrogates more. The undecideds are the only ones whose votes were possibly affected last night. Get Buttigieg, Newsom, Whitmer, etc. out in front of the public more.

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

14 minutes ago, linux said:

Kennedy can never win it is mathematically impossible stop being fifth columnists.

I said if he was up for the D nomination.  Of course he can’t win alone.  If he has a D by his name he would have a better shot than Biden.  Unless Biden really was just sandbagging.  One can hope…

edit: and I don’t want Kennedy.  Whitmer please.  

Edited June 28 by ChiTownDoc

[The_Great_Hornsby 3329]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Oh yeah, I'm sure the guy who is running as a dictator and who can wield his supporters to launch infinite death threats against anyone they hate will have a ton of trouble getting GOP Senators to go along with whatever he tells them to do.  

The GOP hates trump. They arent gonna help him fuck up their 2028 chances lol. Trump will be a lame duck with little political power. This is probably one of the least consequential elections of our lifetime. Both candidates are ineffective and both parties are determined to not let the other side legislate. 

[Captainant 27474]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

That's not what it is. Trump is going to fuck things to a point of collapse. 2016-2020 was an absolute shit show even before COVID. 

Hell, the current PFAS innundation we're enjoying is in large part thanks to rule rollbacks and loopholes put into place by trumpco. Businesses don't have to report how much they're discharging, so they can dump until somebody notices

[wildcat09 29268]

Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

The GOP hates trump. They arent gonna help him fuck up their 2028 chances lol. Trump will be a lame duck with little political power. This is probably one of the least consequential elections of our lifetime. Both candidates are ineffective and both parties are determined to not let the other side legislate. 

Oh, you're a legitimately insane person. I'm sorry.

[hobbes2702 12850]

Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Eh, agree to disagree. I appreciate your thoughts though. I am a tried and true moderate and most of this feels pretty dramatic imo. Our lives have changed very little from 2016 to now, with the exception being abortion (and inflation). I am of the thought that the border does need to be more secure, but we don't need to round people up and deport unless they are criminals. I have never seen any LGBTQ person be treated improperly since 2014 in my smaller town in Texas, and there are plenty of LGBTQ here where that could happen. 

Dude holy shit that’s out of touch. Your life has changed very little. My trans friends lives have changed dramatically. Women’s lives have changed dramatically. Our schools have changed dramatically. Minorities lives have changed dramatically. 
You say you want a more secure border but don’t believe we should round up people. Well that’s what is going to happen. 
You haven’t seen LGBTQ people treated badly in your small town, well we have all seen them demonized and treated badly by our fucking govt. 
There’s no agree to disagree here. You’re plainly wrong but seem to not care because it doesn’t directly effect you.

[linux 1659]

Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

The GOP hates trump. They arent gonna help him fuck up their 2028 chances lol. Trump will be a lame duck with little political power. This is probably one of the least consequential elections of our lifetime. Both candidates are ineffective and both parties are determined to not let the other side legislate. 

See if I was a Trump supporter this is EXACTLY what I would say. depressing anti trump GOTV is his only path to victory.

[hobbes2702 12850]

2 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

The GOP hates trump. They arent gonna help him fuck up their 2028 chances lol. Trump will be a lame duck with little political power. This is probably one of the least consequential elections of our lifetime. Both candidates are ineffective and both parties are determined to not let the other side legislate. 

Again, this is extremely privileged “shit doesn’t affect me” bullshit. Sorry man but be better.

[troph 24577]

This is still an easily winnable election. The only thing that matters is calling Trump a convicted felon, rapist, liar, cheater, racist, grifter over, and over, and OVER again. He has to debate him one more time, that's Biden's answer every time.

AMERICA, WE CAN DO BETTER. WE HAVE TO DO BETTER.

That's the stump speech, that's the debate response, every fucking time.

Let others tout Biden's stellar record in 4 years, Biden needs to hammer Trump nonstop. And if he does, Trump will come unhinged and show his ass to everyone even more so than he does now.

[wildcat09 29268]

"Sure they're talking about rounding up all the Jews and putting them in ghettos and then deporting them, but I haven't seen anyone here in my small German town murder any Jews yet!"

[Goredho 17352]

2 hours ago, linux said:

We had a a repeat of 4 years ago, the fact that people are panicking over the same strategy that won 2020 is extremely pathetic.

Go ahead divide the party 4 months before an election, what a stupid call democrats are fucking idiots, there are no possible primaries that can quiet dissent, its done. 

No shit nobody denies this, the problem is that there is a democrat civil war after it.

If the Democratic Party insists on giving voters “you are just gonna have to trust us as to who is really going to be running the country for the next four years” as the option to Felonious Trump they will lose and deserve being burned to the ground.

[The_Great_Hornsby 3329]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Dude holy shit that’s out of touch. Your life has changed very little. My trans friends lives have changed dramatically. Women’s lives have changed dramatically. Our schools have changed dramatically. Minorities lives have changed dramatically. 
You say you want a more secure border but don’t believe we should round up people. Well that’s what is going to happen. 
You haven’t seen LGBTQ people treated badly in your small town, well we have all seen them demonized and treated badly by our fucking govt. 
There’s no agree to disagree here. You’re plainly wrong but seem to not care because it doesn’t directly effect you.

Maybe I just don't see it. But all I can go by is what I see/experience and the people I talk with. I respect your opinion though. 

[troph 24577]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Dude holy shit that’s out of touch. Your life has changed very little. My trans friends lives have changed dramatically. Women’s lives have changed dramatically. Our schools have changed dramatically. Minorities lives have changed dramatically. 
You say you want a more secure border but don’t believe we should round up people. Well that’s what is going to happen. 
You haven’t seen LGBTQ people treated badly in your small town, well we have all seen them demonized and treated badly by our fucking govt. 
There’s no agree to disagree here. You’re plainly wrong but seem to not care because it doesn’t directly effect you.

thank you. and frankly his response was "tell me you are a straight, white, educated cisgender white man without telling me you are a straight, white, educated, cisgender white man."

Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Maybe I just don't see it. But all I can go by is what I see/experience and the people I talk with. I respect your opinion though. 

you don't see it. you don't look for it either.

[hobbes2702 12850]

Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Maybe I just don't see it. But all I can go by is what I see/experience and the people I talk with. I respect your opinion though. 

What do you mean you don’t see it? Roe v Wade was overturned. Trans people are getting fired from jobs for being trans and can’t get access to medicine. We already intentionally separated families of minorities. We are trying to make IVF illegal. We are banning fucking books.

This isn’t opinion man. This is you just pretending to be a blind person 

[Js1 85136]

9 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Jesus Christ maybe try watching first before suggesting a fucking pro wrestler for president. Some of yall seriously saying moronic shit today.

And worse - The Rock. Who’s been sucking up to the MAGAs lately for his bottom line. Total flip from 2020

[hobbes2702 12850]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

thank you. and frankly his response was "tell me you are a straight, white, educated cisgender white man without telling me you are a straight, white, educated, cisgender white man."

One of my best friends for about 10 years just had to move because of worries about access to their needed drugs for transition. This whole “I don’t see it” thing is just bullshit

[The_Great_Hornsby 3329]

I seem to have wandered into a place I do not belong, I was unaware the world was crumbling around our feet. I will bow out since you all seem to be bringing a much different level of energy to this discussion than me. It was great chatting today. I stand by my statement though "This is probably one of the least consequential elections of our lifetime. Both candidates are ineffective and both parties are determined to not let the other side legislate." So hopefully that can calm some of the nerves in here. Or maybe I am completely out of touch. Whichever it is, I wish you all well. Goodbye for now. 

[troph 24577]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

What do you mean you don’t see it? Roe v Wade was overturned. Trans people are getting fired from jobs for being trans and can’t get access to medicine. We already intentionally separated families of minorities. We are trying to make IVF illegal. We are banning fucking books.

This isn’t opinion man. This is you just pretending to be a blind person 

You can also pivot to the courts and the EPA, climate inaction, forever chemicals and microplastics and conservatives blocking initiatives. We can go on and one. 
 

Trump: “I want perfectly clean water and perfectly clean air.” 
 

No you don’t. 

[GenXer 2784]

27 minutes ago, immamac said:

What about the one where no one even knew what he said and trump felt so bad for him he kinda just left it alone and said "I have no idea what he just said and I don't he did either" 

I’m convinced trump is a malignant narcissist.

Last night made me question that when I could see trump have a glimmer of pity in his eyes when looking at biden.

[Captainant 27474]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

And worse - The Rock. Who’s been sucking up to the MAGAs lately for his bottom line. Total flip from 2020

I mean just look at his past work, in Fast Five he totally flip-flops the entire damn movie!

[956 Worldwide 34462]

I am sorry but there’s nothing moderate about thinking a second Trump admin will be no big deal. For all the crowing about the resilience of our institutions, I’d argue that the current race and the state of our grand debate is proof positive that they’re broken. We kept driving with the check engine light on.

Trump as the rep of a party is a sign that party is broken. SCOTUS is broken and no longer pretending to be non-political. Our media is egging on a crisis just to draw views. 
 

We are fucked. We have gotten irrevocably stupider. This is a different country than it was in 2012. 

[hobbes2702 12850]

Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

I seem to have wandered into a place I do not belong, I was unaware the world was crumbling around our feet. I will bow out since you all seem to be bringing a much different level of energy to this discussion than me. It was great chatting today. I stand by my statement though "This is probably one of the least consequential elections of our lifetime. Both candidates are ineffective and both parties are determined to not let the other side legislate." So hopefully that can calm some of the nerves in here. Or maybe I am completely out of touch. Whichever it is, I wish you all well. Goodbye for now. 

Instead of bowing out why not just get informed? It’s not hard. All the information is out there but instead of actually caring for your fellow man, you would rather hand wave some both sides bullshit.

[Gap03 3287]

Just now, 956 Worldwide said:

We are fucked. We have gotten irrevocably stupider. This is a different country than it was in 2012. 

We are irrevocably stupider and making sure that the stupid have more power. 

[The_Great_Hornsby 3329]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Instead of bowing out why not just get informed? It’s not hard. All the information is out there but instead of actually caring for your fellow man, you would rather hand wave some both sides bullshit.

Most of the country is moderate. I am in the majority. The majority of people I know don't think the world is crumbling. We just have different views. It's okay. I am actually bowing out now though. Good day.