The WAY too early June Presidential Debate thread

[Macklemore 2945]

3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

What would you have them do?  No, better yet, what do you think Trump would do?

Trump would stop dumping billions of taxpayer dollars in the bottomless pit that is Ukraine. I’d hope he’d push for a diplomatic solution to stop this disastrous war. By the way, democracy is dead in Ukraine. They’ve suspended elections and Zelenskyy is going to ride this out as long as the gravy train is rolling.

[Red Five 41593]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

They threw the softest of soft balls his way and he transitioned into talking about the 12 yo girl that got raped and killed by two illegals. 

Like if the question was about January 6 and he pivoted to Hunter, and how old he is. 

[MissingInAction 25478]

[linux 1760]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

No do the number of votes that separated those 74 electoral votes.

And the debate changed 0 minds funny that.

['stache 22115]

4 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Trump would stop dumping billions of taxpayer dollars in the bottomless pit that is Ukraine. I’d hope he’d push for a diplomatic solution to stop this disastrous war. By the way, democracy is dead in Ukraine. They’ve suspended elections and Zelenskyy is going to ride this out as long as the gravy train is rolling.

Goddamn you're smart. How come nobody thought of that? Just call Putin and Zelensky and declare "DIPLOMACY!" 

[DixonHur 11938]

2 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Trump would stop dumping billions of taxpayer dollars in the bottomless pit that is Ukraine.

Would you rather we send troops?  This is the best strategy available to keep Russia in check.

2 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I’d hope he’d push for a diplomatic solution to stop this disastrous war.

So give Putin Ukraine?  You do know Putin's stated goal is to reinstitute the borders of the Russian Empire, right?  That includes the Baltics, much of Finland and Poland, etc.  So, once we acquiesce on Ukraine, what make you think he stops?  Especially since Trump has openly talked about not supporting NATO?  We just let him waltz through Europe?

2 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

By the way, democracy is dead in Ukraine. They’ve suspended elections and Zelenskyy is going to ride this out as long as the gravy train is rolling.

Yeah that's weird they wouldn't have an election while they are being invaded.  Also, are you under some false illusion that Russia is a democracy?

[DixonHur 11938]

6 minutes ago, linux said:

And the debate changed 0 minds funny that.

[linux 1760]

Warnock during the runoff in Georgia won 51.04% of the vote in 2021

In 2023 it was 51.40% 

And you people are worried about changing minds? people make decisions and stick with them, generally they change if they are a separate candidate but not if it is a fucking retread

[linux 1760]

I am finally starting to dawn on me though that neuroticism is the death of democracy, the clownshoes evicted all the neurotic nancies long ago. 

GOTV that is all that matters, people made up their minds 4 years ago, you are not trying to convince fascists here.

[Macklemore 2945]

8 minutes ago, troph said:

none of that is unique to California. The positives and negatives of California are America. I acknowledge negatives but those are negatives of America, not isolated to California.

again, your simple talking points are regurgitated nonsense.

The negatives of California are directly related to their state and local policies. From their property tax laws disincentivizing normal home sales and purchases by freezing the valuation at the time of purchase, environmental and zoning regulations that discourage the building affordable homes exacerbating their housing crisis, progressive DAs ending cash bail and not prosecuting shoplifting for thefts under $1,000, highest state income taxes and gas taxes in the country and enabling a homeless crisis by permitting hobo camps and open drug use. These are all California specific policies that has made the state with the best weather, natural beauty and public universities in this country, where everyone dreamed of moving to when I was growing up, to be a state where over 100,000 Americans are leaving a year. 

[MrBig 5601]

9 minutes ago, linux said:

306 to 232

But go ahead throw that all away for people that have never won a primary or an election (Newsome did win Cali don't bother me with small details)

The goal is to get to 270. So Biden is +36 while Trump is -38. This is still incredibly close when you realize that a minus for one candidate simultaneously becomes plus for the other. Sure, Biden won by 7M but look at the margins per state.

AZ = 10,457 (11 electoral votes)

GA = 11,779 (16 electoral votes)

WI = 20,682 (10 electoral votes)

43,000 votes could have changed the outcome of the 2020 election. So all of this talk that Biden kicked Trumps ass in 2020 is fucking nonsense. 

 

[Dahobbs 18183]

4 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

The negatives of California are directly related to their state and local policies. From their property tax laws disincentivizing normal home sales and purchases by freezing the valuation at the time of purchase, environmental and zoning regulations that discourage the building affordable homes exacerbating their housing crisis, progressive DAs ending cash bail and not prosecuting shoplifting for thefts under $1,000, highest state income taxes and gas taxes in the country and enabling a homeless crisis by permitting hobo camps and open drug use. These are all California specific policies that has made the state with the best weather, natural beauty and public universities in this country, where everyone dreamed of moving to when I was growing up, to be a state where over 100,000 Americans are leaving a year. 

Ok, but what about addicts sucking dick for a hit? Have we discussed their negative effects on society yet? 

[South Austin 53153]

[linux 1760]

Just now, MrBig said:

The goal is to get to 270. So Biden is +36 while Trump is -38. This is still incredibly close when you realize that a minus for one candidate simultaneously becomes plus for the other. Sure, Biden won by 7M but look at the margins per state.

AZ = 10,457 (11 electoral votes)

GA = 11,779 (16 electoral votes)

WI = 20,682 (10 electoral votes)

43,000 votes could have changed the outcome of the 2020 election. So all of this talk that Biden kicked Trumps ass in 2020 is fucking nonsense. 

 

Have you ever considered that Biden could carry NC? that is the problem with 43k votes, you have to have an understanding of what flipping exactly 43k votes, that means a massive shift in polling.

Then you have dead boomers and more gen Z, dead boomers don't vote at least yet. 

[Brisketexan 106612]

What would you have them do?  No, better yet, what do you think Trump would do?

See, the brilliant move here is “appease Putin by giving him everything he wants.” Because rewarding Putin for threatening nukes who’ll DEFINITELY not encourage him to keep doing it, and to keep invading his neighbors.
These are not serious people. Macklemore is a certified idiot.

[Macklemore 2945]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Ok, but what about addicts sucking dick for a hit? Have we discussed their negative effects on society yet? 

I’m sure you can find out for yourself by visiting your closest Newsomeville. 

[Macklemore 2945]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

See, the brilliant move here is “appease Putin by giving him everything he wants.” Because rewarding Putin for threatening nukes who’ll DEFINITELY not encourage him to keep doing it, and to keep invading his neighbors.
These are not serious people. Macklemore is a certified idiot.

Let’s start small and seek a ceasefire to stop the killing. It’s been fun. I’m out until election night. Back to the sports boards for me.

Edited June 28 by Macklemore

[troph 25089]

12 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

The negatives of California are directly related to their state and local policies. From their property tax laws disincentivizing normal home sales and purchases by freezing the valuation at the time of purchase, environmental and zoning regulations that discourage the building affordable homes exacerbating their housing crisis, progressive DAs ending cash bail and not prosecuting shoplifting for thefts under $1,000, highest state income taxes and gas taxes in the country and enabling a homeless crisis by permitting hobo camps and open drug use. These are all California specific policies that has made the state with the best weather, natural beauty and public universities in this country, where everyone dreamed of moving to when I was growing up, to be a state where over 100,000 Americans are leaving a year. 

their property tax laws help prevent gentrification and folks having to sell their homes and migrate due to affordability. there's a flip side there Mr. Nuance. Affordable housing is a problem nationwide not just CA. No one prosecutes petty theft under $1000. Cash bail is a systemic issue - micro issue at best.  Homelessness isn't caused by tax, it's mental health, and housing affordability. The homless camps issue isn't CA state law, it's 8th amendment/9th circuit jurisprudence and is up for the SCOTUS right now. That's a nationwide issue, not a SF issue. And california with all of its problems is still the innovation capital of the world, it's the 5th largest economy in the world. Without CA the US is not the world leader we are.

people leaving CA because it's too expensive isn't the unique indictment of CA you think it is.

You regurgitate talking points from a Rush Limbaugh radio program from 2 decades ago.

Again the problems of CA are the problems of America. The positives of CA are the positives of America.  Only rabid conservatives see CA as some hellscape unique all to its own.

Edited June 28 by troph

[Dahobbs 18183]

5 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I’m sure you can find out for yourself by visiting your closest Newsomeville. 

I didn't think you lived in California. News to me. 

[DaysOff 8157]

Naw, my Venezuelan buddy texted me this morning and begged me to put up a Trump flag. My Mexican neighbor already has one. I’m debating it. 

Lolz. Do they have papers that go back 4 generations? They gone. That pool ain't going to dig itself.

[Dahobbs 18183]

3 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Let’s start small and seek a ceasefire to stop the killing. It’s been fun. I’m out until election night. Back to the sports boards for me.

Don't forget the hit the street corner on your way out. 

[Helobious 9755]

12 minutes ago, MrBig said:

The goal is to get to 270. So Biden is +36 while Trump is -38. This is still incredibly close when you realize that a minus for one candidate simultaneously becomes plus for the other. Sure, Biden won by 7M but look at the margins per state.

AZ = 10,457 (11 electoral votes)

GA = 11,779 (16 electoral votes)

WI = 20,682 (10 electoral votes)

43,000 votes could have changed the outcome of the 2020 election. So all of this talk that Biden kicked Trumps ass in 2020 is fucking nonsense. 

 

Now do trumps margins in 2016.

[chainsaw 10242]

I just realized Trump has way more experience being awake after 9PM Eastern. Did Biden's team not realize that played to his advantage?

[hobbes2702 13350]

14 minutes ago, MrBig said:

The goal is to get to 270. So Biden is +36 while Trump is -38. This is still incredibly close when you realize that a minus for one candidate simultaneously becomes plus for the other. Sure, Biden won by 7M but look at the margins per state.

AZ = 10,457 (11 electoral votes)

GA = 11,779 (16 electoral votes)

WI = 20,682 (10 electoral votes)

43,000 votes could have changed the outcome of the 2020 election. So all of this talk that Biden kicked Trumps ass in 2020 is fucking nonsense. 

 

Flipping that many votes is no easy task. You also still have to hold onto the other swings.

It’s possible, but I don’t think it’s going to easy at all.

[Chuckie Finster 22978]

15 minutes ago, linux said:

Warnock during the runoff in Georgia won 51.04% of the vote in 2021

In 2023 it was 51.40% 

And you people are worried about changing minds? people make decisions and stick with them, generally they change if they are a separate candidate but not if it is a fucking retread

A .36% shift from 2020 would be enough to lose both Arizona and Georgia.

[linux 1760]

2 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Now do trumps margins in 2016.

If this was 2016 I would have thrown the towel we are getting 4 years of Donny,

A) Outsider

B) Blank page

Done. That is political heroin.

He is neither this time people know exactly what we are getting.

[Brisketexan 106612]

Let’s start small and seek a ceasefire to stop the killing. It’s been fun. I’m out until election night. Back to the sports boards for me.

Ceasefire…with territorial status quo…rewarding Putin for threatening nukes.
If you’re too stupid to see how giving into invasion and nuclear blackmail by rewarding it encourages Putin to repeat it over and over and over….nobody can help you. And you are very, very, very bad at negotiating. I pray that you are on the other side of a deal with me sometime, my clients will think that I am the best negotiator ever.

[linux 1760]

3 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

A .36% shift from 2020 would be enough to lose both Arizona and Georgia.

Funny how that is still not enough in the EC. And the shift was towards the dems because of dead boomers (or older), most likely.

Edited June 28 by linux

[DaysOff 8157]

Trump would stop dumping billions of taxpayer dollars in the bottomless pit that is Ukraine. I’d hope he’d push for a diplomatic solution to stop this disastrous war. By the way, democracy is dead in Ukraine. They’ve suspended elections and Zelenskyy is going to ride this out as long as the gravy train is rolling.

Great. Let's spend that money at home for children's lunches and universal Healthcare. Agreed?

[Goredho 17627]

12 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I just can't comprehend how it's the democrat's fault that Donald Trump is a legitimate candidate. The problem is the people. The fact that half the country will vote for a complete idiot while the other half demands perfection is maddening and is why democracy is about to die in the USA.

It's the democrats responsibility to connect with the voters that will swing the election and present them with an alternative to what Trump is.  And their effort to meet that responsibility is trotting out a dude that looks and acts like he wandered out of a dementia ward.  The dems don't have to be perfect, they just have to nominate a moderate, sharp person under 65 that can call bullshit on Trump in real time.  That's all they have to do.

As it is, for the voters that will swing the election, they are looking at one side and seeing a felon, and at the other side and seeing an AZ patient, and their reaction is "What. The. Fuck."  If they stay home, democracy dies.  Because in an election where only passionate supporters vote, Trump wins.  It's a cult, remember?

If that happens, the Dems can blame the Fox, Republicans, the American people, and everyone else, but they need to look in the fucking mirror and realize they had the responsibility to connect with voters, earn their vote and save democracy and they failed miserably at all three.

 

[hobbes2702 13350]

7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Don't forget the hit the street corner on your way out. 

It’s amazing, Icono literally fantasized on this website about shooting migrants at the border, but we banned Derka for being Derka. 

[Brisketexan 106612]

Great. Let's spend that money at home for children's lunches and universal Healthcare. Agreed?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That much, and more, will be spent of favorable “contracts” to MAGA megadonors. Because these fucking morons ALSO think that “draining the swamp” is something that Trumpland, the griftiest and graftiest movement in modern history, actually does. It would be hysterical if it wasn’t so serious.

[troph 25089]

34 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Trump would stop dumping billions of taxpayer dollars in the bottomless pit that is Ukraine. I’d hope he’d push for a diplomatic solution to stop this disastrous war. By the way, democracy is dead in Ukraine. They’ve suspended elections and Zelenskyy is going to ride this out as long as the gravy train is rolling.

have you paid attention to anything about Putin or wars in Europe? Jesus Fucking Christ man, you are drinking poison. The entire free world is spending money to help Ukraine, they are all wrong?

Putin TOOK territory from a soverign nation, invaded it, and half their country is under assault and you think this is a gravy train.

DUDE you are slurping conspiracy theory lies. The amount of "waste" in Ukrainian support is 2% per the DOD. The fraud and corruption and Zelensky is keeping it all to himself is propaganda man. We aren't even giving that much cash, it's almost all actual weapons.

[wildcat09 29555]

1 minute ago, troph said:

have you paid attention to anything about Putin or wars in Europe? Jesus Fucking Christ man, you are drinking poison. The entire free world is spending money to help Ukraine, they are all wrong?

Putin TOOK territory from a soverign nation, invaded it, and half their country is under assault and you think this is a gravy train.

DUDE you are slurping conspiracy theory lies. The amount of "waste" in Ukrainian support is 2% per the DOD. The fraud and corruption and Zelensky is keeping it all to himself is propaganda man. We aren't even giving that much cash, it's almost all actual weapons.

Why are you talking about the free world to someone who openly says we should have a monarch?

[hobbes2702 13350]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

have you paid attention to anything about Putin or wars in Europe? Jesus Fucking Christ man, you are drinking poison. The entire free world is spending money to help Ukraine, they are all wrong?

Putin TOOK territory from a soverign nation, invaded it, and half their country is under assault and you think this is a gravy train.

DUDE you are slurping conspiracy theory lies. The amount of "waste" in Ukrainian support is 2% per the DOD. The fraud and corruption and Zelensky is keeping it all to himself is propaganda man. We aren't even giving that much cash, it's almost all actual weapons.

Stop trying to reason with him. When someone tells you who they are…

[troph 25089]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Why are you talking about the free world to someone who openly says we should have a monarch?

honestly I don't know.

[Dahobbs 18183]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

have you paid attention to anything about Putin or wars in Europe? Jesus Fucking Christ man, you are drinking poison. The entire free world is spending money to help Ukraine, they are all wrong?

Putin TOOK territory from a soverign nation, invaded it, and half their country is under assault and you think this is a gravy train.

DUDE you are slurping conspiracy theory lies. The amount of "waste" in Ukrainian support is 2% per the DOD. The fraud and corruption and Zelensky is keeping it all to himself is propaganda man. We aren't even giving that much cash, it's almost all actual weapons.

Well, the money also doesn't actually go to Ukraine. It goes to our military and our defense contractors to build better shit. We give Ukraine stuff we weren't going to use anyway and then use the funding to buy new stuff. We're just increasing the DOD's budget. Pro-military guys should love that. 

[naija 2961]

4 minutes ago, Goredho said:

It's the democrats responsibility to connect with the voters that will swing the election and present them with an alternative to what Trump is.  And their effort to meet that responsibility is trotting out a dude that looks and acts like he wandered out of a dementia ward.  The dems don't have to be perfect, they just have to nominate a moderate, sharp person under 65 that can call bullshit on Trump in real time.  That's all they have to do.

As it is, for the voters that will swing the election, they are looking at one side and seeing a felon, and at the other side and seeing an AZ patient, and their reaction is "What. The. Fuck."  If they stay home, democracy dies.  Because in an election where only passionate supporters vote, Trump wins.  It's a cult, remember?

If that happens, the Dems can blame the Fox, Republicans, the American people, and everyone else, but they need to look in the fucking mirror and realize they had the responsibility to connect with voters, earn their vote and save democracy and they failed miserably at all three.

 

all of this. 

[Red Five 41593]

It sucks when you have posters blocked and people keep quoting them and arguing with them. 

[troph 25089]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

Well, the money also doesn't actually go to Ukraine. It goes to our military and our defense contractors to build better shit. We give Ukraine stuff we weren't going to use anyway and then use the funding to buy new stuff. We're just increasing the DOD's budget. Pro-military guys should love that. 

pro-Putin guys don't love it. go figure.

HOW THE FUCK DID WE GET TO A PLACE WHERE SOMEONE COULD INVADE A EUROPEAN COUNTRY AND WE THINK STOPPING THAT IS A BAD IDEA??

[troph 25089]

1 minute ago, Red Five said:

It sucks when you have posters blocked and people keep quoting them and arguing with them. 

I'm stopping, also putting him on ignore.

[SubliminalHorn 6995]

4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Not unless Joe Biden agrees to it.

Christ, yes, we fucking know, Biden has to make the decision. How many more times are you going to tell us that? 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2880]

37 minutes ago, 'stache said:

How so? How do you convince people who are either completely brainwashed or too stupid to think through actual public policy that positions and competence are more important than bluster and how well you respond to a fat buffoon rambling on stage about his golf game?

How is it the Dems fault if they lose?  It's the same reason it's the fault of Texas if we lose to Washington in football.  The fact that we live in a seemly unmatched period of stupidity just means it's a harder game for the Dems to play, but they still have to play it.  Everyone went into this with an open mind that his age could be a problem.  When I mentioned it a few months back I was excoriated because incumbency was such an important advantage. 

Dems might get outflanked on this one.  Their fault.  That's not to say that the game was even winnable in this environment - it might not be.  But if policy truly doesn't matter because of the stupidity of the populace, you're taking a gamble by hoping policy alone wins out.

['stache 22115]

6 minutes ago, Goredho said:

It's the democrats responsibility to connect with the voters that will swing the election and present them with an alternative to what Trump is.  And their effort to meet that responsibility is trotting out a dude that looks and acts like he wandered out of a dementia ward.  The dems don't have to be perfect, they just have to nominate a moderate, sharp person under 65 that can call bullshit on Trump in real time.  That's all they have to do.

As it is, for the voters that will swing the election, they are looking at one side and seeing a felon, and at the other side and seeing an AZ patient, and their reaction is "What. The. Fuck."  If they stay home, democracy dies.  Because in an election where only passionate supporters vote, Trump wins.  It's a cult, remember?

If that happens, the Dems can blame the Fox, Republicans, the American people, and everyone else, but they need to look in the fucking mirror and realize they had the responsibility to connect with voters, earn their vote and save democracy and they failed miserably at all three.

 

Bullshit. They have to be perfect. A Jersey Shore participant should be way up in the polls over said criminal. The average American's brain is complete mush. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2880]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

HOW THE FUCK DID WE GET TO A PLACE WHERE SOMEONE COULD INVADE A EUROPEAN COUNTRY AND WE THINK STOPPING THAT IS A BAD IDEA??

I wouldn't try to stop Greece from invading Turkey.

Just for the shenanigans.

['stache 22115]

1 minute ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

How is it the Dems fault if they lose?  It's the same reason it's the fault of Texas if we lose to Washington in football.  The fact that we live in a seemly unmatched period of stupidity just means it's a harder game for the Dems to play, but they still have to play it.  Everyone went into this with an open mind that his age could be a problem.  When I mentioned it a few months back I was excoriated because incumbency was such an important advantage. 

Dems might get outflanked on this one.  Their fault.  That's not to say that the game was even winnable in this environment - it might not be.  But if policy truly doesn't matter because of the stupidity of the populace, you're taking a gamble by hoping policy alone wins out.

So should they go find a failed business man and celebrity who constantly lies and is a convicted felon who will shit all over people he/she doesn't like? That's what the people want, so I guess we just play the game. Fuck it, I truly think it doesn't even matter anymore. 

[linux 1760]

Ignore, Now the next step is to volunteer.

Take the debate as a good thing, now we know zero things taken for granted the election is 50/50 so act accordingly and work like it is the end of the world.

Biden is the coach but we are the players not the fans.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2880]

Okay, bad example.  Spain from invading Russia.  

Just for the sea battles.

[closetohumping 17776]

[SubliminalHorn 6995]

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I think Whitmer could win with holding the blue wall. IF this were to go down Kamala could cause major issues and I totally get it. But she would have fall in line and support Whitmer. Hell keep her on as veep