The WAY too early June Presidential Debate thread

[PW119 167]

2 hours ago, MrBig said:

I know Jill is trying to help but it is just giving fuel to the other side when she’s praising him for answering questions.

 

I think what you mean to say is, Jill is lying her ass off in this video.

[closetohumping 17776]

32 minutes ago, linux said:

So? everybody here is a middleaged man that panicked like little daisies after last night.

People do stupid shit, more screams like that and the debate is forgotten.

I say this being angry at something but counter productive to air it out until after the election.

Maybe we should get a middle aged man or woman instead?   

[GenXer 3324]

40 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Many people, especially older people, fade late. I see it with judges all the time. Debate should have been at 5 pm. 

If this is the case, then everyone on biden’s team should be fired. Spend two weeks leading into the debate changing grandpa’s sleeping schedule. Or, throw in a late nap. Jesus fuck.

[closetohumping 17776]

Just now, GenXer said:

If this is the case, then everyone on biden’s team should be fired. Spend two weeks leading into the debate changing grandpa’s sleeping schedule. Or, throw in a late nap. Jesus fuck.

Trump seemed lucid and alert

[Red Five 41593]

Five grueling months on the campaign trail should be just what the doctor ordered. 

[safe sex 11913]

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Trump seemed lucid and alert

Trump actually takes stimulants

Edited June 28 by safe sex

[Dahobbs 18182]

9 minutes ago, GenXer said:

If this is the case, then everyone on biden’s team should be fired. Spend two weeks leading into the debate changing grandpa’s sleeping schedule. Or, throw in a late nap. Jesus fuck.

Probably, yes. But remember, Biden also has to be President during the day. He has other jobs and can't just focus on campaigning. People get tired and worn down, and that appeared to happen to Biden. The fact that he was better in the morning shouldn't be surprising. 

8 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Trump seemed lucid and alert

Trump (1) is accustomed to staying up late and ranting, this is his time period and (2) doesn't have to be President during the day (and honestly, he didn't actually do any work when he was President). 

[David Dennison 19439]

16 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Maybe we should get a middle aged man or woman instead?   

Probably, but Joe Biden would have to agree to it.

 

14 minutes ago, GenXer said:

If this is the case, then everyone on biden’s team should be fired. Spend two weeks leading into the debate changing grandpa’s sleeping schedule. Or, throw in a late nap. Jesus fuck.

You want to be the one to tell the President of the United States what to do?

[HornPhD 1384]

1 hour ago, Macklemore said:

Yes. American taxpayer dollars spent on the needs of American citizens. Tackle the fentanyl addiction crisis too with that money. I hate the billions sent to Ukraine and Israel and would rather the money spent on our domestic needs.

Republicans would not vote for any funds supporting the needs of American citizens (e.g., improving public education, issues related to poverty, cheaper healthcare). 
 

[GenXer 3324]

10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You want to be the one to tell the President of the United States what to do?

Yes, are they hiring? I have ideas.

Also, joe doesn’t strike me as the type that hires sycophants. This isn’t the trump administration.

[Jive Turkey 12930]

Just in case you weren’t sure that last night was a disaster for Biden and that there’s some panic, this clinches it. 

 

[David Dennison 19439]

2 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Just in case you weren’t sure that last night was a disaster for Biden and that there’s some panic, this clinches it. 

 

I think that's the exact opposite of panic.

[hobbes2702 13350]

15 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Just in case you weren’t sure that last night was a disaster for Biden and that there’s some panic, this clinches it. 

 

Panic? Not sure where you are getting that

[scottsins 2039]

My biggest point of concern is that Biden/DNC agreed to this debate with terms that included a prohibition of any contemporaneous fact checking by moderators.

Why agree to that? If Trump refuses to participate…WIN because there’s no chance of looking bad AND the talking point is that Trump wouldn’t agree to tell the truth.

If Trump does agree, at least there’s a little help when Dotard does Dotard things.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34078]

1 hour ago, mchookem said:

Vivek doesn't have any centrist or democrat* 'friends', gtfo with that 🙄

 

*'democrat' is always a tell 🖕

bigger one for me is "democrat party"

[C-Man 27684]

3 minutes ago, scottsins said:

My biggest point of concern is that Biden/DNC agreed to this debate with terms that included a prohibition of any contemporaneous fact checking by moderators.

Why agree to that? If Trump refuses to participate…WIN because there’s no chance of looking bad AND the talking point is that Trump wouldn’t agree to tell the truth.

If Trump does agree, at least there’s a little help when Dotard does Dotard things.

Do moderators usually fact-check in real time in debates? Isn't that up to the debate opponent to do that?

[Longhorn_Fan68 34078]

3 minutes ago, scottsins said:

My biggest point of concern is that Biden/DNC agreed to this debate with terms that included a prohibition of any contemporaneous fact checking by moderators.

Why agree to that? If Trump refuses to participate…WIN because there’s no chance of looking bad AND the talking point is that Trump wouldn’t agree to tell the truth.

If Trump does agree, at least there’s a little help when Dotard does Dotard things.

yeah, that seemed like an unforced error. does nothing but reinforce to those that only listen to what dotard has to say that what he is saying is true. next one better be fact-checked live - by the moderators! pussies

Just now, C-Man said:

Do moderators usually fact-check in real time in debates? Isn't that up to the debate opponent to do that?

do we live in normal times?

[chainsaw 10242]

Biden needs Ron Klain back big time

[Dbeasy 15526]

2 hours ago, Macklemore said:

Yes. American taxpayer dollars spent on the needs of American citizens. Tackle the fentanyl addiction crisis too with that money. I hate the billions sent to Ukraine and Israel and would rather the money spent on our domestic needs.

Good grief, if this is really what you believe is important, then you would rarely vote for a Republican, demonstrating how clueless you are. 

Republicans rarely spend money on social programs and love spending their money on Israel and military endeavors. The ONLY reason they don’t support Ukraine is because Trump is compromised by Putin, and they will never support a Democrat administration. You are so dumb. 

[C-Man 27684]

2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

yeah, that seemed like an unforced error. does nothing but reinforce to those that only listen to what dotard has to say that what he is saying is true. next one better be fact-checked live - by the moderators! pussies

do we live in normal times?

We do not. Again, I can't recall ever seeing moderators do anything other than try and enforce rules and ask the questions. They don't moderate the content. It's up to the other candidate in the debate to call out inaccuracies in what the other person is saying. And we've never, ever, ever had a candidate lie anywhere close to as much as Trump does.

[Js1 86924]

viewership was abysmal - 48m. 2020 was 73m

['stache 22115]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

Good grief, if this is really what you believe is important, then you would rarely vote for a Republican, demonstrating how clueless you are. 

Republicans rarely spend money on social programs and love spending their money on Israel and military endeavors. The ONLY reason they don’t support Ukraine is because Trump is compromised by Putin, and they will never support a Democrat administration. You are so dumb. 

They also don’t give a shit about fentanyl because it makes the people getting rich off of it are part of the Oligarchy. 

[C-Man 27684]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

Good grief, if this is really what you believe is important, then you would rarely vote for a Republican, demonstrating how clueless you are. 

Republicans rarely spend money on social programs and love spending their money on Israel and military endeavors. The ONLY reason they don’t support Ukraine is because Trump is compromised by Putin, and they will never support a Democrat administration. You are so dumb. 

Not to mention it's not an either-or situation. You can do both. But MAGA/GQP doesn't give a shit or want to do anything that might possibly help Democrats or Biden in elections.

[DDD Dad 14570]

3 hours ago, troph said:

* for white, cisgender, straight property owning men.

Or closeted.

[linux 1760]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

viewership was abysmal - 48m. 2020 was 73m

Junkies watched, Junkies already made up their minds.

GOTV the only thing that matters.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3493]

Sometimes the twitter/X gods just gift you pure comedy:

 

 

[Red Five 41593]

I don't think the intent of the 25th is for it to be used over poor debate performances. 

[Snake Diggity 4698]

11 minutes ago, Js1 said:

viewership was abysmal - 48m. 2020 was 73m

That’s a good thing.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2880]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Yay, more "centrists and democrats" undermining the candidate to the benefit of a fascist. Even if you feel that way, this isn't something you make public if you actually give a shit about defeating donald trump. You don't see any "centrists" or "republicans" constantly posting about trump's obvious problems. Again, because each side is playing by different rules. It's absolute madness. 

Again, I don't get this.  The rule is to win the Presidency.  If you believe

a) the electorate is uniquely fucked up and is about to vote for a lying sack of shit

b) you think this uniquely fucked up electorate is more likely to elect a handful of Dems not named Biden rather than Biden.

Then you arguably should be screaming this from the mountaintops if you think it's a better strategy than sticking with Biden, because you don't have much time to get this ball rolling.

And I do think that unless the polls show a huge drop, this yelling from the mountaintop will be damaging because Biden is going to refuse to drop out.

(Not sure while I am using "from the mountaintop".  It could be from anywhere.)

[Dahobbs 18182]

16 minutes ago, Js1 said:

viewership was abysmal - 48m. 2020 was 73m

The bigger impact of this debate is going to come from the short clips shared on social media. It'll be Biden being old and Trump saying more batshit crazy stuff. You decide which one is more likely to move the needle.  

[Hard Times 309]

21 minutes ago, scottsins said:

My biggest point of concern is that Biden/DNC agreed to this debate with terms that included a prohibition of any contemporaneous fact checking by moderators.

Why agree to that? If Trump refuses to participate…WIN because there’s no chance of looking bad AND the talking point is that Trump wouldn’t agree to tell the truth.

If Trump does agree, at least there’s a little help when Dotard does Dotard things.

That's what pisses me off the most. Dotard talks in generalities and never quotes numbers or facts. At least Biden gave the 6% vs 1%. I'm a facts, numbers and charts person and that's what I want to see. Talking in generalities and hyperbole only influences stupid people.

And the other thing was Dotard never answering the question that was asked. He would just go back to irrelevant mumbling rather than answering the question. Not once did he ever answer the question about childcare.

And this is the true inflation graph that shows Dotard was lying.

Current US Inflation Rates: 2000-2024 (usinflationcalculator.com)

 

 

[ChiTownDoc 21323]

1 hour ago, safe sex said:

Trump actually takes stimulants

Stimulants won’t improve your memory much, if any.  Biden would have said stupid shit with more vigor…admittedly I’d prefer that.  Fuck

[Ghost of LL 15664]

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

fucking this. I'm voting for a "side", not a person. I have much more faith in the dems' ability to replace Joe with someone competent (should it come to that, and it hasn't yet - sorry over-reactors) than I do the other side. It's really not even a contest. I cannot imagine voting R again for the rest of my life and I hope to have another four decades or so on this planet. Fuck them.

Brother, I'm with you.  There is no way I am not voting for the Democratic candidate for President--or any other office--in November.

But at the risk (or certainty) of being labeled an over-reactor, I am 100% certain that if Joe Biden is the nominee then we will lose.  And I am equally certain that we will lose the House and the Senate.  Because if you watched that debate with anything other than the most partisan of goggles, you saw a man who frequently could not complete a coherent thought.  It was the worst debate performance by a presidential candidate since we started having the damned things in 1960.  That's not an exaggeration.  It was the worst.  It was worse event than Trump's performance in 2020, because at least he played to what his base wanted to see (i.e., an obnoxious loudmouth with an aversion to facts and truth).

And we can make excuses all day.  And maybe some of those excuses have some basis in fact.  But they're not going to be persuasive to people who currently need to be persuaded to (1) show up to vote, and (2) vote for Joe Biden.  "He had a cold"; "he's busy with a real job"; "his advisors prepared him badly"--perhaps all of those are true.  And it won't change the mind of anybody who isn't planning to vote for Joe Biden today to vote for him in November.

And if the Democratic Party can't get its shit together and get a nominee with an actual chance of winning, then that indicates a complete failure of the party structure.  And that's going to have real down-ballot consequences.

I appreciate @linux and @troph observing the obvious--that the Republic depends on the outcome of this election and we need to work to defend it.  But if the Democratic Party--including its various officeholders--put the Party's power structure and need not to cross an incumbent president above saving the Republic, . . . well, I just don't know what to tell you.

 

As a final thought--my reservations with Joe Biden in 2020 were entirely wrapped up in his failure to run in 2016.  Anybody who knew anything about politics knew that Hillary Clinton was a weak candidate, but that Joe would've won in a landslide over Trump.  But Biden didn't run because he was sad about Beau's death.  I mean, ok.  I get it.  That's a valid thing.  But at the same time, the Republic needed you in that hour, and you didn't answer the bell.

And now it's the opposite.  The Republic needs Joe Biden to stand down.  But he's looking for all the world like he's going to put his personal interests ahead of the Republic in 2024.  And in so doing, once again hand the presidency to Donald Trump.

[linux 1760]

We can't look at the past, what is done is done, besides he runs in 2016 he loses in 2020 people are blind to the narcotic allure of a blank page outsider, Trump collected a cult later but normal people actually admit that they made a mistake in 2016, these people no longer exist they got their look at what it meant to vote for Trump.

[GenXer 3324]

33 minutes ago, scottsins said:

My biggest point of concern is that Biden/DNC agreed to this debate with terms that included a prohibition of any contemporaneous fact checking by moderators.

Why agree to that? If Trump refuses to participate…WIN because there’s no chance of looking bad AND the talking point is that Trump wouldn’t agree to tell the truth.

If Trump does agree, at least there’s a little help when Dotard does Dotard things.

Both candidates were given a pen and pad of paper at their podium. Joe should’ve walked up to his, written LIE on the first page, and torn it off the pad. Whenever trump told a lie, joe should’ve held up the paper to the camera.

That would’ve a) distracted the audience from trump b) acted as a live fact checker c) been better than seeing resting 25th amendment face

[David Dennison 19439]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

And now it's the opposite.  The Republic needs Joe Biden to stand down.  But he's looking for all the world like he's going to put his personal interests ahead of the Republic in 2024.  And in so doing, once again hand the presidency to Donald Trump.

Maybe. 

But you shouldn't expect the President of the United States to stand down. You should expect the exact opposite.

[MissingInAction 25478]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Ceasefire…with territorial status quo…rewarding Putin for threatening nukes.
If you’re too stupid to see how giving into invasion and nuclear blackmail by rewarding it encourages Putin to repeat it over and over and over….nobody can help you. And you are very, very, very bad at negotiating. I pray that you are on the other side of a deal with me sometime, my clients will think that I am the best negotiator ever.

I'd like to do a business.

[DaysOff 8157]

Do we have polling data of Newsom v baboon, and if it exists, do you trust it?

[ChiTownDoc 21323]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Maybe. 

But you shouldn't expect the President of the United States to stand down. You should expect the exact opposite.

These days I expect the President of the United States to fall down.  And that won’t change in November.  
Unless, you know, the Democrats grow a spine. 

[elfenix 34657]

3 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Would you rather we send troops?  This is the best strategy available to keep Russia in check

He wants the US to use those weapons in Iran, not Ukraine.

[David Dennison 19439]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

These days I expect the President of the United States to fall down.  And that won’t change in November.  
Unless, you know, the Democrats grow a spine. 

What can the Democrats do about it?

[Ghost of LL 15664]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Maybe. 

But you shouldn't expect the President of the United States to stand down. You should expect the exact opposite.

Under ordinary circumstances, yes.

But we do not live in a universe filled with ordinary circumstances just now.

We live in a universe in which the President of the United States took the stage--shuffled onto the stage, to be more accurate--and could not string together a cogent argument or manage a basic line of thought.  We live in a universe in which the choice for president is purely binary; either the Democrat or the Republican is going to win.  We live in a universe in which the Republican has promise to be a dictator from Day One, and his supporters are developing a very serious program that would make that a reality.

These are extraordinary circumstances.

Joe Biden needs to make an extraordinary decision to answer those extraordinary circumstances.

[Neonmoon 38130]

This thread remind me of an early loss in season football thread. 

[David Dennison 19439]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Under ordinary circumstances, yes.

But we do not live in a universe filled with ordinary circumstances just now.

We live in a universe in which the President of the United States took the stage--shuffled onto the stage, to be more accurate--and could not string together a cogent argument or manage a basic line of thought.  We live in a universe in which the choice for president is purely binary; either the Democrat or the Republican is going to win.  We live in a universe in which the Republican has promise to be a dictator from Day One, and his supporters are developing a very serious program that would make that a reality.

These are extraordinary circumstances.

Joe Biden needs to make an extraordinary decision to answer those extraordinary circumstances.

Probably, but I don't think he's going to.

Stranger things have happened, though.

[Red Five 41593]

2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

This thread remind me of an early loss in season football thread. 

Yeah, 66-3 to UCLA. 

[linux 1760]

We are not fans, we are players what are you going to do about it? are you going to donate your time and money or are you going to faint in the sidelines?

There is no plan B, stop wishcasting fantasy, Biden needs to do better as always but there is no plan B

[linux 1760]

You are all playing into Donald Trump's hand

[David Dennison 19439]

4 minutes ago, linux said:

We are not fans, we are players what are you going to do about it? are you going to donate your time and money or are you going to faint in the sidelines?

There is no plan B, stop wishcasting fantasy, Biden needs to do better as always but there is no plan B

This. The Democratic Party needs to accept the reality that Joe Biden is the nominee, put all of its recourses behind the candidate, and mobilize a GOTV effort to make sure Democratic voters actually vote.

[Neonmoon 38130]

There is great answer by Newsom to the “stand down” media shit. Someone with Twitter post the clip

[Js1 86924]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The Democratic Party needs to accept the reality that Joe Biden is the nominee

The party apparatus has. The bed wetters have not.