The Airplane Fanatic Thread

[MaclovioBrown 100]

My bet is fuel management. I believe a front had just  blown through and a Comanche with 3 adults on board with a mean headwind seems logical.

First post BTW. Longhorn alumni PP ASEL.

Edited December 6, 2019 by MaclovioBrown

[Your Mom 4817]

Welcome.  

[Thetexashammer 1062]

23 hours ago, markstanco said:

 


 
What an odd crash. Circling to lose altitude and they die. Sounds like something else went wrong.

In a 182/172 my old instructor showed how to pull power just past midfield on the downwind and treat the plane as if no engine. I will still use some in windy conditions but it is better than relying on needing 1400 rpms when you dont have it.

I would hope your instructor trained you on that. It's a required maneuver before you solo. 

Circling with an engine out isn't a common procedure for most pilots. CFI at Addison who crashed did the same thing, stalled while circling over a 9000 foot runway. Just bad piloting. 

[markstanco 12582]

I would hope your instructor trained you on that. It's a required maneuver before you solo. 
Circling with an engine out isn't a common procedure for most pilots. CFI at Addison who crashed did the same thing, stalled while circling over a 9000 foot runway. Just bad piloting. 

Of course.

CSB Warning: on my checkride, I was flying a Remos G3 ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remos_GX )

The CR guy loved the shit out of it. We were maybe at 3500 agl and doing steep turns, points, whatever. Finished up and about 2 miles IIRC from the airport he asked if I could hit the active runway. I said sure, and hit hard left rudder and right aileron and it dropped like a brick. Landed and got my ticket.

That plane in the POH weighed 633 pounds. A 10 kt wind would whip your ass. XC from texarkana to paris to mt pleasant solo is still my worst flight to date. We sold it shortly after. But it did climb at a rate of 1300 feet I believe, so that was fun.

[DaysOff 7958]

There's a pretty clear video on Kathryn's Report.  Looks like he stalled it.  Looks just like the Cirrus crash at Hobby a few years ago. And no fire.  I hope the engine failure wasn't caused by fuel exhaustion.

This has been my guess. No post crash fire. Engine running fine and then it wasn't.

My son went to the funeral today for the 22 year old. They were friends on the UTSA table tennis team. I met him once six weeks ago at our house, and only remember him because we went to the same high school albeit 30 years apart.

I'm going to be really pissed when the preliminary says fuel starvation.

[markstanco 12582]

Oh hammer...just looked at my log. We did 7 sim engine outs. My 1st one, being the jokester I am, my CFI said after pulling the knob "engine out what do you do"

I reply with "call my wife and tell her I love her"

[Your Mom 4817]

21 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

This has been my guess. No post crash fire. Engine running fine and then it wasn't.

My son went to the funeral today for the 22 year old. They were friends on the UTSA table tennis team. I met him once six weeks ago at our house, and only remember him because we went to the same high school albeit 30 years apart.

I'm going to be really pissed when the preliminary says fuel starvation.

Ugh.  This hobby of all ours can make it a small world.  My oldest son is considering following in the old mans footsteps into this career.  We talk about the career, the highs and the lows of it, the available paths, etc... from time to time.  One thing that has to be mentioned in those conversations is that by the time you get some real experience at this you’ll know someone who died doing it.  First guy I knew was a kid I was in college with.  He overloaded a 172 over summer on a hot New Mexico day.  Never got out of ground effect, stalled it in trying to clear the trees after takeoff.  With his sister and a friend on board with him.   

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

8 hours ago, Your Mom said:

Ugh.  This hobby of all ours can make it a small world.  My oldest son is considering following in the old mans footsteps into this career.  We talk about the career, the highs and the lows of it, the available paths, etc... from time to time.  One thing that has to be mentioned in those conversations is that by the time you get some real experience at this you’ll know someone who died doing it.  First guy I knew was a kid I was in college with.  He overloaded a 172 over summer on a hot New Mexico day.  Never got out of ground effect, stalled it in trying to clear the trees after takeoff.  With his sister and a friend on board with him.   

Yup. First I knew was my first flight instructor who died in an aft loaded 1900 in CLT. Then my roommate in college my junior year decided to do an overhead and stall spun it into the ground. Amazing how many you know when you start adding it up.  

Edited December 7, 2019 by Bobby_Batronic

[markstanco 12582]

.  First guy I knew was a kid I was in college with.  He overloaded a 172 over summer on a hot New Mexico day.  Never got out of ground effect, stalled it in trying to clear the trees after takeoff.  With his sister and a friend on board with him.   

Wow. When I have passengers the FIRST thing I do is math, especially in the summer. That is very irresponsible.

[Homercles 10206]

Off topic question here...is it me or does WN use 35R/17L a lot more than other airlines at AUS?  I’ve wondered if it’s due to gate proximity/taxi times, or are landing fees cheaper or just less of a delay holding?  Obviously their 73s can handle it just fine even though it’s the shorter of the two.  

[Your Mom 4817]

Most of the time we just take what they offer.  But if we ask for one it'll be to get the shortest taxi, assuming the runway is long enough for the given weight, and it'd have to be less than 5000' for that to be an issue most days.  But that's not just SWA, that's pretty much everybody.  More times than not ATC already knows you want the shortest taxi and they'll assign it without asking.  If they assign another runway (at any airport) it's because they need you on it for traffic purposes or because they know it'll be faster, ie they might put you number one for 17L instead of number three for your preferred runway.  In AUS landing south everyone wants 17R because the turnoff gets you to the gate quicker than it does on 17L.  Landing north in AUS nobody really cares, it's the same either side.  The terminal is pretty much equal distance between the runways.   The key is to make taxiway G.  You can do it from either runway landing north, but you can only make it from 17R landing south.  And may god have mercy on your soul if you ever landed 17R and missed G and T... you'd never live that 2 extra miles of taxiing down.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Your Mom

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

5 hours ago, Homercles said:

Off topic question here...is it me or does WN use 35R/17L a lot more than other airlines at AUS?  I’ve wondered if it’s due to gate proximity/taxi times, or are landing fees cheaper or just less of a delay holding?  Obviously their 73s can handle it just fine even though it’s the shorter of the two.  

Free Pizza.

[spystud13 2371]

Alright boys, which one(s) we buying? 

Quote

Legroom won’t be an issue on any of these aircraft.

At least eight luxurious aircraft — seven airplanes and a helicopter — will be sold at auction Saturday at Spinks Airport, a general aviation hub 14 miles south of downtown Fort Worth.

A local company, Assent Aeronautics, will host the auction. The aircraft, all of which are immaculately equipped with amenities such as leather seating and wood paneling, are believed to have a collective value of $28 million.

Officials at Assent Aeronautics say they plan to hold future auctions quarterly, to provide an ongoing, trusted forum for bringing together aviation buyers and sellers. The next auction is scheduled for March 19-21.

“The Assent Platinum Auction is a marketplace for qualified aircraft owners and aircraft brokers to present their aircraft to real qualified bidders, not just the same old internet search engine tire kickers,” Jake Banglesdorf, Assent Aeronautics vice president, said in an email.

Among the items on the block:

• 2014 Challenger 605. Wanna fly to Europe? This plane has a range of 4,123 nautical miles, and a cruising speed of 528 miles per hour. Oh, and the seats can be converted to fully flat beds.
• 2002 Falcon 2000. This long-distance beauty comfortably seats 10 people.
• 2007 Citation Mustang. Can be operated by a single pilot, and comfortably seats up to five passengers.
• 1998 Citation Bravo (two available). These planes seat seven passengers.
• 1990 Citation V. This plane has a cruising speed of 456 mph and seats up to seven passengers.
• 1977 King Air 100A. Seats up to eight passengers.
• 2018 Robinson R66. This turbine engine helicopter has a range of 350 nautical miles and seats up to four passengers.

Bidders must register in advance, and provide a bank letter of guarantee or escrow deposit confirmation.

For more information on the auction, or to arrange a preview of the aircraft, visit www.AssentAuctions.com.

Assent Aeronautics was founded in Fort Worth in 2004. The company offers aircraft brokerage services, aircraft transaction consulting and aircarft management and maintenance.

 

[Gil Bang 25979]

Driving up 5 this evening thinking WTF is with this traffic.

Then, this

 

[Armybrat 40851]

Tow it to Mingo’s body shop.....a little bondo, some bending with a crowbar, and a can of spray paint oughta get it back in the air.

[DalTxHornFan 3108]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

Tow it to Mingo’s body shop.....a little bondo, some bending with a crowbar, and a can of spray paint oughta get it back in the air.

I remember MIngo's!

[Armybrat 40851]

Just now, DalTxHornFan said:

I remember MIngo's!

My kids kept his north Austin shop in business in the 1980s. Lol

[CycleTex87 2974]

Bill Harrelson, flying a purpose built Lancair IV, is on his last leg of a western direction around the world speed record attempt.  
 

https://www.6zqpilot.com

[markstanco 12582]

One leg was 32 hours?  How does he crap? 

[The Royal We 3072]

That is nuts.  Interesting post on how he crammed enough fuel into that tiny plane:

https://www.6zqpilot.com/post/how-to-carry-361-gallons-in-6zq

[Armybrat 40851]

No ash tray in that plane, I presume.

[Buffsoldier 1895]

4 hours ago, markstanco said:

One leg was 32 hours?  How does he crap? 

Well, it kinda depends.....

 

[spystud13 2371]

Quote

A teenage girl was arrested after police say she stole a $2M private jet and crashed it into an airport building in California.

The 17-year-old, whose identity has not been released due to her age, apparently climbed over a barbed-wire fence at Fresno Yosemite International Airport around 7:30 a.m. Wednesday morning and got in the pilot's seat of a multi-million dollar King Air 200 propeller plane, officials said during a press conference.

She then allegedly started one of the plane's engines and briefly drove the aircraft down part of the tarmac before crashing into a building and fence in the general aviation area of the airport, which police say is located approximately a quarter of a mile away from commercial terminals.

Responding officers discovered the teen, who was disoriented but uninjured, sitting inside the craft wearing the pilot's headset and took her into custody. She was later booked into juvenile hall on suspicion of stealing an aircraft, the Los Angeles Times reports. 

The incident is currently under investigation, but police say they do not suspect domestic terrorism as a possible motive. It remains unclear how the teen, who reportedly does not know how to drive a car, was able to start the aircraft.

"We're not certain how she was able to accomplish those things," said Drew Bessinger, Fresno Yosemite International Airport police chief.

The suspect's mother told KFSN that before the incident, she had not seen or heard from her daughter since Tuesday night. 

The jet never became airborne but did sustain "substantial" damage in the crash.

 

 

[Your Mom 4817]

Use your feet girl!  Your feet!!

[Homercles 10206]

Read it was a King Air and think she just got #2 started, believe it belonged to the family so she had seen the startup sequence before.  Must have been a wild ride.  

[Shoxthemonkey 1982]

Clever of the Beechcraft engineers to put props on a private jet.

[dcbc 14492]

On 12/19/2019 at 6:17 PM, Your Mom said:

Use your feet girl!  Your feet!!

That moment you realize the yoke doesn't steer things on the ground.

[markstanco 12582]

When they say tarmac the same people say clip when referring to a gun magazine. It just pisses me off.

There is no fucking tarmac. WTF is a tarmac? It's a ramp or an apron.

[Armybrat 40851]

Isn’t tarmac a British term?

[DaysOff 7958]

It is a British trademark for a type of asphalt.

[TwiceHorn 31509]

No longer a trademark, just a name.

MacAdam is a compacted gravel road using different sized stones to make a more solid surface than just spread gravel.  

Tar was added to keep the dust down and keep it together.

Voila, "tarmac."

But yeah, now generally means just asphalt (or tar) composition, but acquired that curious specialized meaning for aprons or ramps.

I suppose "tarmac" became a popular term in aviation because for so many years, the vast majority never traveled by airplane, much less piloted one, they just read about it in books and news so the literary term "tarmac" became popular on both sides of the pond.

Edited December 26, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Your Mom 4817]

I generally call it the ramp but I will note that our manuals use "Long tarmac delays" as the verbiage for the policies and procedures related to that.  I think it's a case of a phrase being used so long it becomes acceptable even if not exactly correct. 

Like saying I want a coke... what kind?  Dr Pepper.

[HiggyBaby 2540]

Austin from FL320 a couple nights ago on way to Corpus. Bonus third pic coming back north over San Antonio ...

 

Happy holidays.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CycleTex87 2974]

7 hours ago, HiggyBaby said:

Austin from FL320 a couple nights ago on way to Corpus. Bonus third pic coming back north over San Antonio ...

 

Happy holidays.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I member flying with my dad at night we could see Amarillo, Lubbock and Abilene all at the same time on the way to Wichita Falls.  We were not at FL320 however, probably more like 8500 ft. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by CycleTex87

[Homercles 10206]

For you airbus drivers...help me understand what Ground Speed Mini function is?  I’ve seen it mentioned a few times on PPrune and am curious how it’s used.  Google mainly gave me a 64 page pdf to read so was hoping for an ELI5 answer.  

Edited December 29, 2019 by Homercles

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

16 hours ago, Homercles said:

For you airbus drivers...help me understand what Ground Speed Mini function is?  I’ve seen it mentioned a few times on PPrune and am curious how it’s used.  Google mainly gave me a 64 page pdf to read so was hoping for an ELI5 answer.  

The short answer is that it’s the airplane flying at a speed above the predicted Vapp to keep a minimum energy level on approach in windy conditions. A minimum ground speed if you will. 

The technical answer is that when in managed speed on approach ( ATHR on indicated by a magenta carrot on the speed tape) the aircraft’s speed will be consistently above the magenta carrot consistent with the wind conditions. Vapp being Vls (lowest selectable speed) + 5 knots or 1/3 of the gust factor not to exceed 15 knots. Whichever is greater.

It does a good job of it too except for the 319 which often predicts the Vapp to be uncomfortably close to Vls. The wings don’t pop off if the plane dips below Vls or anything, but hilarity will ensue if you go below Alpha Prot (indicated by the red and amber striped tape below and the amber “hook” that represents Vls). Alpha prot is where angle of attack protections take over. 

Most guys manually increase Vapp in the 319 by 3-5 knots for this reason. The only other time you ever get close to going below Vls in the bus is usually on a 321 trying to slow down with the boards out. 

[Homercles 10206]

Ahhh ok it was the ‘mini’ that was jacking me up...I was thinking ‘miniature’ and not ‘minimum’ in a thread I was reading.  No wonder I was confused.  Thank you. 

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

12 hours ago, Homercles said:

Ahhh ok it was the ‘mini’ that was jacking me up...I was thinking ‘miniature’ and not ‘minimum’ in a thread I was reading.  No wonder I was confused.  Thank you. 

Airbus lingo doing Airbus lingo things. 

The manuals are written in French and then translated by ESL speakers so they read a bit like stereo instructions at times. The start abort verbiage for a manual engine start is particularly terrible. 

[Chad Fuck 17687]

I took some pics of the Strait of Hormuz at night last year but I lost them because my iPhone bricked without backing up.  Looks like I won't get that chance anytime soon.  

Anyhow, on another forum we were discussing how turbines really aren't made for low and slow, but there isn't really a substitute on deck for firebombing now that all the mid-century planes have been retired.  This video prompted the discussion:

 

I've talked to a lot of pilots from a wide variety of profiles.  I've never met in person someone who was in this line of work.  Anyone here done any fire drops? 

[Anastasis 23478]

holy shit that video. 

[Leeroy Jenkins 2409]

Wow.  Those guys shit their pants.  The P-3 is great for that job.  I think they have been bringing some of them back after years of sitting. 

[Chad Fuck 17687]

On 1/8/2020 at 10:21 AM, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Wow.  Those guys shit their pants.  The P-3 is great for that job.  I think they have been bringing some of them back after years of sitting. 

There are definitely some P-3s in the water bomber fleet.  I think the oldest planes still playing are DC-6s and DC-7s.  Which is crazy old.

 

 

I was asking around about C-130s, as I've seen some used, but tons mothballed at DM.  I've heard those have some serious spar/wing box fatigue issues, even the "newer" ones.  

 

[Armybrat 40851]

The P-3 was developed from the Lockheed Electra airliner, IIRC.

Rode one of those to Kansas City in 1960, about the time they were experiencing a rash of crashes due to the wings falling off if they maintained an airspeed of 400 mph.

About 1949 I had a ride in a Piper Cub.

Made a trip aboard a Lockheed Constellation from NYC to St. Louis in 1953.

Rode in a C-47 from Taipei to Hong Kong in 1958.

Flew  in a DC-7 from San Francisco to Austin in 1959.

Took the 747 from Austin to London in 2018.

Those are the most memorable flights to me on some iconic aircraft, at least for a person who flies very infrequently. Not counting all the  DC9s, the MD80s and the 737s.

[Chad Fuck 17687]

11:40 and 18:50 for interesting flutters.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

2 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

There are definitely some P-3s in the water bomber fleet.  I think the oldest planes still playing are DC-6s and DC-7s.  Which is crazy old.

 

 

I was asking around about C-130s, as I've seen some used, but tons mothballed at DM.  I've heard those have some serious spar/wing box fatigue issues, even the "newer" ones.  

 

I was having a similar discussion with an Air Force Reserve Major who currently flies 130’s as his side hustle. His take was basically that the Herc’s get beat to hell during service, and that they wouldn’t be ideal for the rigors or fire flying. 

The converted civilian airliners certainly take their share of wear and tear, but most aren’t doing combat landings into unimproved fields with armored vehicles on board. 

[Homercles 10206]

I know lax arrivals have to come in over the city, and you probably don’t want an orbiting 777 in the path of departures out over the pacific...but you dump fuel over the town at 2k?  Gonna go read PPrune thread after this which is sure to be entertaining:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/31844/60-injured-by-delta-flight-dumping-jet-fuel-over-los-angeles-in-emergency-landing

Forgot to turn off the dump valve?  I’m sure that was a busy cockpit.  

Edited January 15, 2020 by Homercles

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

It’s kinda a problem having them hold offshore because of the inbound and outbound LAX traffic, and to a far lesser extent LGB, SNA and perhaps business jets off of SMO if it’s still operating turbine traffic. 

But you’d like to think someone had  considered a way to keep a heavy close by so that it could dump fuel without dropping widget juice on local children. 

[Gil Bang 25979]

On 1/8/2020 at 7:57 AM, Chad Fuck said:

I took some pics of the Strait of Hormuz at night last year but I lost them because my iPhone bricked without backing up.  Looks like I won't get that chance anytime soon.  

Anyhow, on another forum we were discussing how turbines really aren't made for low and slow, but there isn't really a substitute on deck for firebombing now that all the mid-century planes have been retired.  This video prompted the discussion:

 

I've talked to a lot of pilots from a wide variety of profiles.  I've never met in person someone who was in this line of work.  Anyone here done any fire drops? 

My neighbor retired as an AA 777 Captain a couple of years ago.  He went to CalFire.  He flew for them for a few months, and then quit, because "it was too much work". 

[Chad Fuck 17687]

My neighbor retired as an AA 777 Captain a couple of years ago.  He went to CalFire.  He flew for them for a few months, and then quit, because "it was too much work". 

I’ll bet after a career getting to altitude then telling jokes for six hours until you get to Frankfurt, CalFire would be challenging.

[Native Horn 3504]

SIAP.  Cool (and also sad) article about a great pilot.

https://texashighways.com/culture/people/meet-tammie-jo-shults-american-hero-twice-over/