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Posted
5 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Points are really at a premium in this Drake v Bradley game.

That’s Drake’s game.  Gonna either piss someone off big time in 2 weeks, or result in them getting blown out.

Posted
6 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Tom Izzo is a damned magician. What he does every year is amazing.

15-13, 23-13, 21-13, 20-15 the previous 4 years till now.  He hasn't gone full Mack Brown yet, but all this "you don't want to see a Tom Izzo team in March/Tom Izzo is a magician" narrative is purely coasting on legacy until proven otherwise at this point.

Posted
15 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

15-13, 23-13, 21-13, 20-15 the previous 4 years till now.  He hasn't gone full Mack Brown yet, but all this "you don't want to see a Tom Izzo team in March/Tom Izzo is a magician" narrative is purely coasting on legacy until proven otherwise at this point.

They just won the B10.

Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, ztejas said:

They just won the B10.

Yes they did, after 4 years of pure mediocrity.  Izzo didn't earn his rep being above average once every five years (and we've yet to see how the 1 plays out in the postseason).  Maybe that would be fine if he were starting out and building MSU from rock bottom, but they're supposed to be a tier or two below perennial contenders, not one year out of five look like a team that should make it past the round of 32.

Edited by Captain Obvious
Posted
39 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Yes they did, after 4 years of pure mediocrity.  Izzo didn't earn his rep being above average once every five years (and we've yet to see how the 1 plays out in the postseason).  Maybe that would be fine if he were starting out and building MSU from rock bottom, but they're supposed to be a tier or two below perennial contenders, not one year out of five look like a team that should make it past the round of 32.

He had a bad couple of classes. It happens. 30 years, 11 conference titles, 8 final fours and a national championship. The numbers bear out a story pretty similar to the one you're belittling. His teams compete for the tournament every single year, a conference title and final four roughly once every 3 years, and a national championship once every 6-7 years. They are not Duke. They are not Kansas. Otherwise...not too shabby. 

Also here is a reminder that Cassius Winston was going to win a National Championship in 2020 but the tournament was cancelled. 

Posted
20 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

He had a bad couple of classes. It happens. 30 years, 11 conference titles, 8 final fours and a national championship. The numbers bear out a story pretty similar to the one you're belittling. His teams compete for the tournament every single year, a conference title and final four roughly once every 3 years, and a national championship once every 6-7 years. They are not Duke. They are not Kansas. Otherwise...not too shabby. 

Also here is a reminder that Cassius Winston was going to win a National Championship in 2020 but the tournament was cancelled. 

Career-wise, Izzo is a notch or two below K, Roy Williams, Self, etc...I am by no means belittling his body of work.  I do take issue with the whole "Izzo magic" at this point given the recent history.  Yeah he can throw together a great team every once in awhile, but outside of those outliers, it seems like he's lost his fastball in terms of getting more out of less.

And it's not just Izzo.  I thought for years the last 7-8 years of K's career he just managed to pull in top recruiting classes and the talent gap did most of the work where earlier in his career it seemed like the Duke players grew their games under his coaching.

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Career-wise, Izzo is a notch or two below K, Roy Williams, Self, etc...I am by no means belittling his body of work.  I do take issue with the whole "Izzo magic" at this point given the recent history.  Yeah he can throw together a great team every once in awhile, but outside of those outliers, it seems like he's lost his fastball in terms of getting more out of less.

That's totally fair, especially given the context of the past few years but I'm also old enough to remember when many counted him out as a one class/period wonder in 2003 because they hadn't made a run since the Flintstone/JRich class, and again in '08, '12, you name it. A 3-4 year gap in between final four runs is a crisis at Michigan State it seems. It also seems like 98 percent of the other D1 college basketball programs would be pretty happy to inherit that problem. I don't think he's washed just yet, and even if if he was, I'm the type that is of the mindset that he can go out however he wants. Absolute legend. 

Posted
10 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

Also here is a reminder that Cassius Winston was going to win a National Championship in 2020 but the tournament was cancelled. 

Uh, that's some wild hyperbole considering the other teams in college basketball that year and the fact that that MSU team barely escaped the regular season without double digit losses.

Posted
13 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Yes they did, after 4 years of pure mediocrity.  Izzo didn't earn his rep being above average once every five years (and we've yet to see how the 1 plays out in the postseason).  Maybe that would be fine if he were starting out and building MSU from rock bottom, but they're supposed to be a tier or two below perennial contenders, not one year out of five look like a team that should make it past the round of 32.

Including this season with the "four years of pure mediocrity" Izzo's record is 128-59 and the Texas record is 108-56. 

As others have said, 99% of fans would be extremely happy to have had Izzo. While Izzo has been at Sparty Texas is now on its fifth coach, as is Pitt.

I would have loved me some Tom Izzo, 733-300 record, as my coach as opposed to the shit we have been fed.

Every coach has some bad seasons. Dean Smith had 5 double-digit loss seasons, Coach K had 8, Larry Brown had three in five seasons at Kansas. Bill Self has had four in 22 seasons. Izzo has 14. Jimmy Boeheim had 22. Roy Williams had 11. Knight had 18. Pitino has 12. Calhoun had 19. Calipari with 12, etc etc etc.

I don't know what the future holds for Izzo, nor do I really care but, I'd guess he has a few more seasons in him and if he sticks around he could end up in the top-12-15 all-time. That's pretty darn good.

Posted
12 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Career-wise, Izzo is a notch or two below K, Roy Williams, Self, etc...I am by no means belittling his body of work.  I do take issue with the whole "Izzo magic" at this point given the recent history.  Yeah he can throw together a great team every once in awhile, but outside of those outliers, it seems like he's lost his fastball in terms of getting more out of less.

And it's not just Izzo.  I thought for years the last 7-8 years of K's career he just managed to pull in top recruiting classes and the talent gap did most of the work where earlier in his career it seemed like the Duke players grew their games under his coaching.

Totally agree. Especially after Coach K embraced the One & Done method. Those days of veteran rosters are pretty much all gone.

Posted
3 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Uh, that's some wild hyperbole considering the other teams in college basketball that year and the fact that that MSU team barely escaped the regular season without double digit losses.

Right it was tongue in cheek, but the point being one of the 4 years that are being cited as down years did not have a tournament and that team was absolutely rolling and getting their shit together at the right time. And the year prior they were in the final four. So we are talking about 3 down years, all of which they made the tournament and won at least a game, and one of which they made the 2nd weekend, and none of which they lost to a lower seed. Not bad for down years. 

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Posted
24 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

Right it was tongue in cheek, but the point being one of the 4 years that are being cited as down years did not have a tournament and that team was absolutely rolling and getting their shit together at the right time. And the year prior they were in the final four. So we are talking about 3 down years, all of which they made the tournament and won at least a game, and one of which they made the 2nd weekend, and none of which they lost to a lower seed. Not bad for down years. 

For sure. I'm a big fan of Izzo, too. The haters are crazy.

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Posted
15 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Yes they did, after 4 years of pure mediocrity.  Izzo didn't earn his rep being above average once every five years (and we've yet to see how the 1 plays out in the postseason).  Maybe that would be fine if he were starting out and building MSU from rock bottom, but they're supposed to be a tier or two below perennial contenders, not one year out of five look like a team that should make it past the round of 32.

SS in '23 isn't mediocre. I agree he isn't a perennial wizard but they are fucking legit this season. 

Posted
46 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

Right it was tongue in cheek, but the point being one of the 4 years that are being cited as down years did not have a tournament and that team was absolutely rolling and getting their shit together at the right time. And the year prior they were in the final four. So we are talking about 3 down years, all of which they made the tournament and won at least a game, and one of which they made the 2nd weekend, and none of which they lost to a lower seed. Not bad for down years. 

Your math is a season off. 2020 was cancelled. 21, 22, 23, 24 is four seasons. 25 is this season. 

Posted
55 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Your math is a season off. 2020 was cancelled. 21, 22, 23, 24 is four seasons. 25 is this season. 

You're right, I missed 2020-21. And that was a crappy year. Lost in the play in to UCLA. Selective memory. 

That freshman class turned out to be a pretty big stinker, contributing to the lack of success the next 3 seasons. 

Posted
13 minutes ago, Underdog said:

So Wofford has a fellow that goes granny style on his FTAs, not as good at it as Rick Barry. 

Sochan still shoots one-handed.

Posted
2 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Toppin wins Big 12 POY and NOY. Time to back that shit up

I love the fact that D5 might be the 4th best player on this squad now, at least related to value to scheme and functionality.  That in and of itself is why this team is a likely 2 seed, as opposed to 6-7.  Our best player is at Creighton, right?

They were a consensus no-show in Top25 preseason rankings.  McCasland and staff have worked their asses off.

 

Wreck em!!!

Posted
4 minutes ago, Iceman said:

I love the fact that D5 might be the 4th best player on this squad now, at least related to value to scheme and functionality.  That in and of itself is why this team is a likely 2 seed, as opposed to 6-7.  Our best player is at Creighton, right?

They were a consensus no-show in Top25 preseason rankings.  McCasland and staff have worked their asses off.

 

Wreck em!!!

I think we're probably a 3 seed due to non-con schedule. Unless we win the Big 12 tourney.

Posted
4 minutes ago, Iceman said:

I love the fact that D5 might be the 4th best player on this squad now, at least related to value to scheme and functionality.  That in and of itself is why this team is a likely 2 seed, as opposed to 6-7.  Our best player is at Creighton, right?

They were a consensus no-show in Top25 preseason rankings.  McCasland and staff have worked their asses off.

 

Wreck em!!!

Gay.

Posted

The SoCon Championship was an excellent start to the week.

It’s become fashionable to shit on conference tournaments because the committee doesn’t value the high major ones much, and as a sports society we only value the final playoff/tournament.

But personally, fuck that.  This is a great week of sports and I’m so fucking sick of discussions about certain sporting events “not mattering”.  It’s fucking sports - none of it matters.

I’m gonna have fun watching hoops.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, shadow_operative2.0 said:

If this is right, no #Big12MBB in the NIT as the league, along with the #BIG and the #BigEast have agreed to send their non-NCAA teams to the CBC in Las Vegas. 

Fox schools, so yes 

Posted

Gonzaga looks wholly underwhelming. That they are top 10 in both NET and kenpom likely showcases flaws in the grading ability of those metrics. 

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