Death Throes of the Republic: Part Deux

[Michael Knight 12718]

On the old scat site I once posited that the nomination of Donald Trump for the Republican candidate for President of the United States indicated that our Republic was on its death bed, I think I gave it 15-20 years before total collapse. I was called a reactionary and hysterical, it turns out I might just have been off by 10 years. While the world will little note, nor long remember what we say here our system is fundamentally and irretrievably broken and I can't see how there is any way of coming back from this, hell I don't know where we've been and I've just been there. Much like we did when first reading about Nazi Germany future generations will wonder why we didn't do anything or in the very least why didn't we move someplace else? On the bright side the heat will probably kill us before people have a chance to judge .

 

 

 

[Fastbreak 3890]

Jesus will come in the form of a giant asteroid and all the religious crazies will celebrate by driving their f-350s into the Atlantic Ocean in Missouri. All is well.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23247]

I remember you shaggy prophecy.  There is no coming back.  The bad guys are really winning these days.  

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11536]

Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2701]

I realize it's a question of where you want to die, but dammit, why does Ireland have to be so high?

World Cost of Living Calculator: 9294 cities, 197 countries (livingcost.org)

 

[mchookem 15539]

[Nivek 16684]

42 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I remember you shaggy prophecy.  There is no coming back.  The bad guys are really winning these days.  

[Nivek 16684]

20 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I realize it's a question of where you want to die, but dammit, why does Ireland have to be so high?

World Cost of Living Calculator: 9294 cities, 197 countries (livingcost.org)

 

Viva Nepal!

[Paper_jam 828]

All that stuff we grew up hearing about--freedom, democracy, the rights and liberties enshrined in our Constitution, our finely tuned system of checks and balances, equality for everyone before the law--they are tearing it all down.  A lot of it was propaganda that we never lived up to anyway, but they were ideals I still believed in and hoped we could incrementally achieve.

We should all go on a general strike until we get a new Constitution that bans corporate and dark money campaign contributions, explicitly frames the separation of church and state, puts term limits on all offices including the Supreme Court, and eliminates the electoral college (or at least, apportions EVs fractionally in proportion to the popular vote in the state).

Alternatively,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWdfRRtAs3o

 

 

Edited July 1 by Paper_jam

[Hugo Stiglitz 23247]

While we’re doing the I hate to be right thing, pretty sure I said something like “the fastest way to get Trump again would be to nominate Joe Biden in 2020.”  Leopards eating face party cuts both ways sometimes.  Still praying every night that I’m wrong on this one. 

Edited July 1 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Underdog 28219]

[SubliminalHorn 6384]

I’ve tried to hold on to hope. Hope that this country would snap out of whatever the fuck is going on. That hope is gone. It’s over. There’s no way we come back from this when 40% of the population is hell bent on tearing it down. How do you fight the conspiracy theories and propaganda? It was a pretty good run we had. We all know that empires decline and collapse, you just hope it doesn’t happen while you’re alive in it

[immamac 41718]

this is what happens when you allow corporations to put their desires ahead of the citizenry of a country. 

[DixonHur 10858]

I just need to know where to pick up arm band on November 6th.

I hope they come up with a cool insignia, but it will probably just be Trump's face.

[staboner 4941]

4 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

On the old scat site I once posited that the nomination of Donald Trump for the Republican candidate for President of the United States indicated that our Republic was on its death bed, I think I gave it 15-20 years before total collapse. I was called a reactionary and hysterical, it turns out I might just have been off by 10 years. While the world will little note, nor long remember what we say here our system is fundamentally and irretrievably broken and I can't see how there is any way of coming back from this, hell I don't know where we've been and I've just been there. Much like we did when first reading about Nazi Germany future generations will wonder why we didn't do anything or in the very least why didn't we move someplace else? On the bright side the heat will probably kill us before people have a chance to judge .

 

 

 

social media man, couldn't see that one coming. when the like button came out in 2012 it just accelerated every ill in society, not to mention the biggest ill of them all in modern American society - that whole critical thinking thing.

i take you back to 2006 to 2010 - in the obama transition years. I was super "negative" on shag (or wherever the F we were at the time). It all just felt so fucking fake and stupid. We bail out rich folks, we preach free markets, we spend billions to sway 10k voters in like 5 states. the whole fucking thing has been super regarded to decades now. 2012 just put it into 5th gear

There is a massive hole in America right in the fucking brain. My only hope is people don't genuinely wish death on their neighbors like in the infinite previous examples that history has shown us and we never learn from. whatever, brutal times ahead friends. 

 

 

[DixonHur 10858]

So how long before Trump reinstitutes the original Pledge of Allegiance?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23247]

That’s the Bellamy salute.  The nazis stole it from us.  I hate fucking nazis 

[27-25 2030]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

So how long before Trump reinstitutes the original Pledge of Allegiance?

You mean the one that didn't have "under God" in it (Added in 1954)?

[DixonHur 10858]

1 minute ago, 27-25 said:

You mean the one that didn't have "under God" in it (Added in 1954)?

I'm sure they'll figure out a way to have a hybrid of the original salute and the current words.

[DixonHur 10858]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That’s the Bellamy salute.  The nazis stole it from us.  I hate fucking nazis 

Well, Hugo, I've got good news... we're taking it BACK! lol

USA, USA, SEC, USA!

[YGIFS 19445]

16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That’s the Bellamy salute.  The nazis stole it from us.  I hate fucking nazis 

But what if they're from Illinois?  

We've exhausted this discussion as Lobo is wont to do.  There has been tyranny, royalism, fascism, and nationalism for the last 250 years.  I don't worry about the similarities between Trump and those other rulers.  Those comparisons have been beaten to death and are of no import or historical significance at this stage in the game.  Those rulers and despots either pandered to the poor and down-trodden to create a revolution and seize power or catered to the elites (business & military) to unify a coalition with which to gain power.  

Trump's 25mm top voters vote straight R down ballot all the way.  Always have, always will.  Trump brought out the bottom 25mm as despots do, from catering to the disenfranchised to vote for "Drain the Establishment" because they'll buy into it.  He is good at exploiting their bigotry and paranoia about the fate of their nation.  But the middle 25mm, this is where it veers completely away from historical norms.  He tells middle class, suburban people that their lives are awful and he will make it better.  He, and he alone.  Trump will make your life better like it used to be, which is actually how it is right now.  He makes educated suburbanites in the middle, stupid but educated, that everything is wrong with their lives.  thousands of dictators have bored out the model of rising up the poor masses or the wealthy elites to gain control.  What makes Trump singularly unique is he got tens of millions in the middle that everything was a disaster.  And unlike most ruthless sociopaths, he doesn't even know that he did it.  That's why it works.  

[Gatorubet 29665]

31 minutes ago, immamac said:

this is what happens when you allow corporations to put their desires ahead of the citizenry of a country. 

In 50 years, Jade will take her grandchildren to the Gulf of Mexico shore in South Arkansas to search the tidal pools for crustaceans and small fish to eat.    There are no more schools, and few people read anymore; lessons are learned by oral recitation of ‘The Truths’.

”Michael Knight was right; Brisket’s ledge was real; allowing corporations to vote in 2028 was a mistake - - - - “

<wack>

“Ow! Mee-maw made the best chili…”

[troph 24024]

sorry for partying.

[Neonmoon 38126]

[softlynow 1620]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

I just need to know where to pick up arm band on November 6th.

I hope they come up with a cool insignia, but it will probably just be Trump's face.

 

[RDCanecutter 25968]

6 hours ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I realize it's a question of where you want to die, but dammit, why does Ireland have to be so high?

World Cost of Living Calculator: 9294 cities, 197 countries (livingcost.org)

 

Nuevo Laredo comin in with get-away apartments for $160.

Plenty of nice towns in France are a surprising bargain, even Paris is not very high. Wonder how they came up with those numbers.

[RomaVicta 29574]

12 hours ago, immamac said:

this is what happens when you allow corporations to put their desires ahead of the citizenry of a country. 

I was never a Red, but I did wonder back in the day exactly how our conflict with the USSR shifted from being about freedom to being about capitalism. Maybe the right's astounding ability to frame the argument started way back in the 70s and was brought to full bloom under Reagan. "Now the Russians can enjoy all the benefits of capitalism and the free market."

Worked out great. The few control most everything just like here.

[immamac 41718]

6 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I was never a Red, but I did wonder back in the day exactly how our conflict with the USSR shifted from being about freedom to being about capitalism. Maybe the right's astounding ability to frame the argument started way back in the 70s and was brought to full bloom under Reagan. "Now the Russians can enjoy all the benefits of capitalism and the free market."

Worked out great. The few control most everything just like here.

It doesn't have anything to do with that. It has to do with greed and power. 

Citizens United is the worst thing to ever happen to our country. Capitalism isn't the problem, the problem is there were clear rules, regulations and guidelines that were ignored, removed or redone to allow a few companies that enriched the powers that be to become ridiculously concentrated. 

I've been a part of the "ruling class" of tech oligarchs at a major technology company on the executive team with a compensation package that was hardly believable. These people are vampires, completely disconnected from reality and making decisions based on completely irrational and bogus targets. The amount of book cooking that goes on between these companies is absolutely insane. 

The only people that stay in those positions long term these days are completely morally bankrupt pieces of shit who have no guiding principles other than personal enrichment and growth for the sake of the shareholders (who reward them with personal enrichment). It's disgusting and there were very few people I interacted with across the industry that were actually in it for the innovation and betterment of the planet. 

Oil and gas is likely similar, banking is probably even worse. No one gives a shit about the American people anymore, they are just rubes to be juiced for their per Capita. 

[Captainant 26913]

13 hours ago, immamac said:

this is what happens when you allow corporations to put their desires ahead of the citizenry of a country. 

Look man, do you want to increase shareholder value or not you commie pinko

[RomaVicta 29574]

7 minutes ago, immamac said:

Citizens United is the worst thing to ever happen to our country. Capitalism isn't the problem, the problem is there were clear rules, regulations and guidelines that were ignored, removed or redone to allow a few companies that enriched the powers that be to become ridiculously concentrated. 

I don't have time, sadly, to give your post full attention. In this paragraph, you contradict yourself. 

You say capitalism isn't the problem and then you pretty much describe how the literal capitalists (the people who own everything) dismantled legal restraints upon their rapine ways.

Further, why did we need regulatory laws and when were they developed? See: Robber Barons. Capitalism is rapine and must be contained because it becomes its own form of tyranny, IMHO. That's why I muse about the switch in talking about America being champions of capitalism rather than freedom and rights.

[Hank Kingsley 20104]

[immamac 41718]

1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

I don't have time, sadly, to give your post full attention. In this paragraph, you contradict yourself. 

You say capitalism isn't the problem and then you pretty much describe how the literal capitalists (the people who own everything) dismantled legal restraints upon their rapine ways.

Further, why did we need regulatory laws and when were they developed? See: Robber Barons. Capitalism is rapine and must be contained because it becomes its own form of tyranny, IMHO. That's why I muse about the switch in talking about America being champions of capitalism rather than freedom and rights.

Citizens United allows corporations to be people as I'm sure you know. This is what broke the entire system. It wasn't broken before that. There was no mechanism to force government to act irrationally against the interests of it's own people and survive the reckoning of the election.  

Lobbyists can do a lot. Campaign finance to buy votes can do even more. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11536]

Edited July 2 by BehoId, The Underminer!

[Hank Kingsley 20104]

Government is completely broken. 

Voting system is completely broken. 

Healthcare is completely broken. 

Capitalism is complete broken. 

Society is completely broken. 

 

At this point, find your pack, continue to love, and raise your kids to the best of your abilities. 

[Captainant 26913]

45 minutes ago, immamac said:

Citizens United allows corporations to be people as I'm sure you know. This is what broke the entire system. It wasn't broken before that. There was no mechanism to force government to act irrationally against the interests of it's own people and survive the reckoning of the election.  

Lobbyists can do a lot. Campaign finance to buy votes can do even more. 

It wasn't just that it made corporations people, the decision also legally turned money into speech. You can't donate unlimited to a campaign directly, but you can spend unlimited with zero reporting on campaigning for them. SuperPACs are the far more pernicious and insidious thing that has been undermining our democratic process.

And that mechanism for people to exercise their """speech""" becomes leveragable thanks to the corporate personhood insanity. 

 

Citizens United was such a far reaching and unnecessarily broad decision that outkicked it's coverage on fact pattern and matters at hand. Turns out that's been a defining feature of the Imperial Roberts Court

[Goredho 17178]

36 minutes ago, immamac said:

Citizens United allows corporations to be people as I'm sure you know. This is what broke the entire system. It wasn't broken before that. There was no mechanism to force government to act irrationally against the interests of it's own people and survive the reckoning of the election.  

Lobbyists can do a lot. Campaign finance to buy votes can do even more. 

Yeah, but who lobbied for Citizen’s United?  Was it Bernie Sanders?  Or some capitalist taking the next step in a long series of steps to protect capitalistic interests over the societal good? I totally agree capitalism itself is not inherently evil, but many of the capitalists in this country are evil (as your previous post called out) and they are the ones who push for things like citizens united.  I think “Capitalism” gets the blame for the actions of “wanton capitalists” that see any regulation or counterbalance as a threat.

[immamac 41718]

8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Government is completely broken. 

Voting system is completely broken. 

Healthcare is completely broken. 

Capitalism is complete broken. 

Society is completely broken. 

 

At this point, find your pack, continue to love, and raise your kids to the best of your abilities. 

@956 Worldwide ^^^ is this how it happens in Russia? 

[YGIFS 19445]

Capitalism is the least shitty system we've come up with yet.  It has lifted more people out of poverty, out of illiteracy, out of underbanked and underserved than any other economic model in human history.

Corporate donations aside, What our Federalist Democratic Republic did not account for is a failed 'Capitalist' game show host would convince tens of millions of people that he, and he alone, would save their financial futures.  Capitalism sometimes crushes people unnecessarily.  Sometimes Courts make rulings that run against the foundations of Democracy.  And on occasion, the private sector & the government & the body politic are all to blame.  

But this, what has been happening for 8 years and will last another 8 years.  This one is on us.  We watched friends and relatives turn away from the light.  And we just took solace in the idiotic notion "Well, at least their more civically engaged now..."  Our prize mistake, a stunning lack of imagination.  

It's not capitalism to blame, it's not the ruling on corporate dollars, or Fox News.  It's never just the one thing.  We watched, in real time, people we love and admire, get hooked onto a drug of validation and we didn't do a fucking thing to prevent it.  Think about that at the train depot when you're waving goodbye to your darker-skinned relatives.  

[immamac 41718]

1 minute ago, YGIFS said:

Capitalism is the least shitty system we've come up with yet.  It has lifted more people out of poverty, out of illiteracy, out of underbanked and underserved than any other economic model in human history.

Corporate donations aside, What our Federalist Democratic Republic did not account for is a failed 'Capitalist' game show host would convince tens of millions of people that he, and he alone, would save their financial futures.  Capitalism sometimes crushes people unnecessarily.  Sometimes Courts make rulings that run against the foundations of Democracy.  And on occasion, the private sector & the government & the body politic are all to blame.  

But this, what has been happening for 8 years and will last another 8 years.  This one is on us.  We watched friends and relatives turn away from the light.  And we just took solace in the idiotic notion "Well, at least their more civically engaged now..."  Our prize mistake, a stunning lack of imagination.  

It's not capitalism to blame, it's not the ruling on corporate dollars, or Fox News.  It's never just the one thing.  We watched, in real time, people we love and admire, get hooked onto a drug of validation and we didn't do a fucking thing to prevent it.  Think about that at the train depot when you're waving goodbye to your darker-skinned relatives.  

Idk man it all really started with big virtually unlimited dark money in politics. 

[YGIFS 19445]

So 2010 was the year that politics started getting corrupted?  Good to know.  

Starting in 2006 or so, I would give bags of cash to staffers so they could go out and buy pre-paid Visa cards from myriad stores.  Then pass them out to known folks who would use them to donate online to a particular action group or candidate.  All hidden under the auspices of "under the campaign" limit.  It's nothing compared to Citizens United kinda corporate money, but this has been going on in some form or fashion for centuries.  I've had money wired to the account of regulatory and elected officials off-shore accounts more than once.  When both entities know the other won't rat them out because they're both on the hook, mouths stay shut.  Citizens United, unjust as it may seem, actually shed sunshine upon what we do every single day.  At least it's out there for FOIA requests.  Why risk a $20,000 grift with a 20% skim when you can get $200,000 in plain sight and nothing off the top?  Think of Citizens United as Disinfectant.  

the horrifying truth of Citizens United isn't corporate donations to candidates or to oppose Democrats.  It's real power lies in the fact that it's primarily used to suppress voter turnout in certain states and districts.  People see XYZ corp or ABC political action group raised this much money for Mr. or Mrs. Senate Candidate.  A lot of that money is donated and siphoned off to support efforts to get DA's, County Clerks, Secretaries of State, Judges, et. al. to make voter registration/early voting/election day activity more difficult.  You can't do that through a state-approved line item budget.  they push money through PAC's with a wink-wink, nudge-nudge understanding that it gets funneled down-stream to grassroots efforts to suppress voter activity.  

Give me $5mm dollars to get Ted Cruz re-elected and I'll fix Tarrant and Hidalgo County for a dozen other candidates.  We've been running this scheme for decades.  

[immamac 41718]

1 minute ago, YGIFS said:

So 2010 was the year that politics started getting corrupted?  Good to know.  

Starting in 2006 or so, I would give bags of cash to staffers so they could go out and buy pre-paid Visa cards from myriad stores.  Then pass them out to known folks who would use them to donate online to a particular action group or candidate.  All hidden under the auspices of "under the campaign" limit.  It's nothing compared to Citizens United kinda corporate money, but this has been going on in some form or fashion for centuries.  I've had money wired to the account of regulatory and elected officials off-shore accounts more than once.  When both entities know the other won't rat them out because they're both on the hook, mouths stay shut.  Citizens United, unjust as it may seem, actually shed sunshine upon what we do every single day.  At least it's out there for FOIA requests.  Why risk a $20,000 grift with a 20% skim when you can get $200,000 in plain sight and nothing off the top?  Think of Citizens United as Disinfectant.  

the horrifying truth of Citizens United isn't corporate donations to candidates or to oppose Democrats.  It's real power lies in the fact that it's primarily used to suppress voter turnout in certain states and districts.  People see XYZ corp or ABC political action group raised this much money for Mr. or Mrs. Senate Candidate.  A lot of that money is donated and siphoned off to support efforts to get DA's, County Clerks, Secretaries of State, Judges, et. al. to make voter registration/early voting/election day activity more difficult.  You can't do that through a state-approved line item budget.  they push money through PAC's with a wink-wink, nudge-nudge understanding that it gets funneled down-stream to grassroots efforts to suppress voter activity.  

Give me $5mm dollars to get Ted Cruz re-elected and I'll fix Tarrant and Hidalgo County for a dozen other candidates.  We've been running this scheme for decades.  

I don't think the dollar amounts were hundreds of millions and billions of dollars. I'm sure there was a market for it just like bags and football before NIL, but legitimizing things normalizes it for everyone, including companies that weren't participating prior. 

[Neonmoon 38126]

3 hours ago, immamac said:

The amount of book cooking that goes on between these companies is absolutely insane. 

Oil and gas is likely similar

I have a fun story from my 15 years in OG. I remember attending a company presentation. This company estimated one of their undeveloped assets was worth 10x. They’re going to use next methods to extract so much value. That’s what they told investors. It pumped up their share price. They got new loans to fund more stuff. I asked my geologist after the presentation, wait, isn’t that the asset they just offered us last quarter to buy? He nods yes. I ask, is it worth 10x? He say no, it’s garbage, uneconomic. That day, I learned the value of narrative in finance. 

[immamac 41718]

23 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I have a fun story from my 15 years in OG. I remember attending a company presentation. This company estimated one of their undeveloped assets was worth 10x. They’re going to use next methods to extract so much value. That’s what they told investors. It pumped up their share price. They got new loans to fund more stuff. I asked my geologist after the presentation, wait, isn’t that the asset they just offered us last quarter to buy? He nods yes. I ask, is it worth 10x? He say no, it’s garbage, uneconomic. That day, I learned the value of narrative in finance. 

This kind of stuff used to make my blood boil and I couldn't fathom that it wouldn't end in criminal charges or dismissal for misleading etc. 

Turns out investors love that shit. They are just fucking gambling with other people's money and get carry anyway so what do they give a fuck. 

[RomaVicta 29574]

4 hours ago, immamac said:

Citizens United allows corporations to be people as I'm sure you know. This is what broke the entire system. It wasn't broken before that. There was no mechanism to force government to act irrationally against the interests of it's own people and survive the reckoning of the election.  

Lobbyists can do a lot. Campaign finance to buy votes can do even more. 

You're right, of course, about the damage of Citizens United (another PR coup by naming it that), however, I will still argue that the roots to that action were deep and strong and sucking all the water out of the ground prior to that decision.

[troph 24024]

2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Capitalism is the least shitty system we've come up with yet.  It has lifted more people out of poverty, out of illiteracy, out of underbanked and underserved than any other economic model in human history.

Corporate donations aside, What our Federalist Democratic Republic did not account for is a failed 'Capitalist' game show host would convince tens of millions of people that he, and he alone, would save their financial futures.  Capitalism sometimes crushes people unnecessarily.  Sometimes Courts make rulings that run against the foundations of Democracy.  And on occasion, the private sector & the government & the body politic are all to blame.  

But this, what has been happening for 8 years and will last another 8 years.  This one is on us.  We watched friends and relatives turn away from the light.  And we just took solace in the idiotic notion "Well, at least their more civically engaged now..."  Our prize mistake, a stunning lack of imagination.  

It's not capitalism to blame, it's not the ruling on corporate dollars, or Fox News.  It's never just the one thing.  We watched, in real time, people we love and admire, get hooked onto a drug of validation and we didn't do a fucking thing to prevent it.  Think about that at the train depot when you're waving goodbye to your darker-skinned relatives.  

regulated capitalism is the best system we've come up with to date.

2 hours ago, immamac said:

Idk man it all really started with big virtually unlimited dark money in politics. 

exactly. one of many forms of deregulation in the last 40 years.

[Biff Tannen 45151]

8 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Government is completely broken. 

Voting system is completely broken. 

Healthcare is completely broken. 

Capitalism is complete broken. 

Society is completely broken. 

 

At this point, find your pack, continue to love, and raise your kids to the best of your abilities. 

[Neonmoon 38126]

8 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Government is completely broken. 

Voting system is completely broken. 

Healthcare is completely broken. 

Capitalism is complete broken. 

Society is completely broken. 

 

At this point, find your pack, continue to love, and raise your kids to the best of your abilities. 

More like 

[WithoutAClue 15021]

[Sawbonz 26871]

On 7/2/2024 at 8:28 AM, RomaVicta said:

I don't have time, sadly, to give your post full attention. In this paragraph, you contradict yourself. 

You say capitalism isn't the problem and then you pretty much describe how the literal capitalists (the people who own everything) dismantled legal restraints upon their rapine ways.

Further, why did we need regulatory laws and when were they developed? See: Robber Barons. Capitalism is rapine and must be contained because it becomes its own form of tyranny, IMHO. That's why I muse about the switch in talking about America being champions of capitalism rather than freedom and rights.

Capitalism sucks. Communism is worse and the proof is all over the world for the last 100 or so years 

 

A well regulated private sector with a robust governmental social safety net is what works. Unfortunately that type of system requires a democratic government, and people are stupid 

[David Dennison 17797]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Capitalism sucks. Communism is worse and the proof is all over the world for the last 100 or so years 

A well regulated private sector with a robust governmental social safety net is what works. Unfortunately that type of system requires a democratic government, and people are stupid 

bUt MaH tAxEs!