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Credit Card Fraud (by company)


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My wife went to Ulta Beauty and bought some stuff.  She swiped her AMEX card and left.   Later, I start getting these emails from Comenity Bank (Bread Financial) and since I do not have an account with them I assumed it was spam (I had also not heard of them).   Also received some mail from them.   I opened it up and saw it was for a credit card with some debt on it, late charges, interest, etc.   I chatted with my wife and she said she never opened an account (we do not own credit cards).    Furthermore the account is in my name, not hers.  It is tied to my social security, my email, etc.   Chatting with them on the phone, I had the run around, accusations by their $10 hour employees accusing us of fraud, being deadbeats, etc.  I did get them to agree verbally to take a payment for the products she purchased only,  but nothing else (fees, interest) and to close the account.  Their fraud department was contacted and they were useless.  

However, they only wanted me to send a personal check or use my bank debit card.   I offer to use a prepaid debit card, to which they refuse and claim they cannot process it.   They talk about their policy, I remind them I never signed any agreement to such.  I tell them my policy and I absolutely refuse to give them any more information about me considering I absolutely do not trust them.   So I again offer to pay them via the Visa Debit card, or allow them to eat the cost and shut down the account.   Their rep talks over me and eventually hangs up on me.   

Checking my credit, I had frozen 2 out of the 3 bureaus a while back, and this one slipped through.   I report them to the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, I dispute it with the 3 credit agencies.   I have not yet filed a police report.    My credit has fallen from 840 down into the 730 range due entirely to this.   I am considering purchasing a new home or possibly a new vehicle in the future but not within the next few months.   I am slightly annoyed with the time sink and I while my logical brain tells me to pay this headache away, my emotional side is claiming, they are being assholes and running the Wells Fargo scam, so be an asshole back.  

Any advice?

 

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13 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I have not yet filed a police report.   

Start with that, but they'll probably say "civil matter" and do nothing.

I'm guessing someone at the ULTA was benefiting from some kind of incentive. Their lack of cooperation is because someone (or a group of someones) is trying to cover their asses.

15 minutes ago, Nivek said:

running the Wells Fargo scam,

Exactly. Check if you can sue the bastards

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53 minutes ago, Nivek said:

My wife went to Ulta Beauty and bought some stuff.  She swiped her AMEX card and left.   Later, I start getting these emails from Comenity Bank (Bread Financial) and since I do not have an account with them I assumed it was spam (I had also not heard of them).   Also received some mail from them.   I opened it up and saw it was for a credit card with some debt on it, late charges, interest, etc.   I chatted with my wife and she said she never opened an account (we do not own credit cards).    Furthermore the account is in my name, not hers.  It is tied to my social security, my email, etc.   Chatting with them on the phone, I had the run around, accusations by their $10 hour employees accusing us of fraud, being deadbeats, etc.  I did get them to agree verbally to take a payment for the products she purchased only,  but nothing else (fees, interest) and to close the account.  Their fraud department was contacted and they were useless.  

However, they only wanted me to send a personal check or use my bank debit card.   I offer to use a prepaid debit card, to which they refuse and claim they cannot process it.   They talk about their policy, I remind them I never signed any agreement to such.  I tell them my policy and I absolutely refuse to give them any more information about me considering I absolutely do not trust them.   So I again offer to pay them via the Visa Debit card, or allow them to eat the cost and shut down the account.   Their rep talks over me and eventually hangs up on me.   

Checking my credit, I had frozen 2 out of the 3 bureaus a while back, and this one slipped through.   I report them to the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, I dispute it with the 3 credit agencies.   I have not yet filed a police report.    My credit has fallen from 840 down into the 730 range due entirely to this.   I am considering purchasing a new home or possibly a new vehicle in the future but not within the next few months.   I am slightly annoyed with the time sink and I while my logical brain tells me to pay this headache away, my emotional side is claiming, they are being assholes and running the Wells Fargo scam, so be an asshole back.  

Any advice?

 

Say what?

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1 hour ago, Nivek said:

My wife went to Ulta Beauty and bought some stuff.  She swiped her AMEX card and left.   Later, I start getting these emails from Comenity Bank (Bread Financial) and since I do not have an account with them I assumed it was spam (I had also not heard of them).   Also received some mail from them.   I opened it up and saw it was for a credit card with some debt on it, late charges, interest, etc.   I chatted with my wife and she said she never opened an account (we do not own credit cards).    Furthermore the account is in my name, not hers.  It is tied to my social security, my email, etc.   Chatting with them on the phone, I had the run around, accusations by their $10 hour employees accusing us of fraud, being deadbeats, etc.  I did get them to agree verbally to take a payment for the products she purchased only,  but nothing else (fees, interest) and to close the account.  Their fraud department was contacted and they were useless.  

However, they only wanted me to send a personal check or use my bank debit card.   I offer to use a prepaid debit card, to which they refuse and claim they cannot process it.   They talk about their policy, I remind them I never signed any agreement to such.  I tell them my policy and I absolutely refuse to give them any more information about me considering I absolutely do not trust them.   So I again offer to pay them via the Visa Debit card, or allow them to eat the cost and shut down the account.   Their rep talks over me and eventually hangs up on me.   

Checking my credit, I had frozen 2 out of the 3 bureaus a while back, and this one slipped through.   I report them to the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, I dispute it with the 3 credit agencies.   I have not yet filed a police report.    My credit has fallen from 840 down into the 730 range due entirely to this.   I am considering purchasing a new home or possibly a new vehicle in the future but not within the next few months.   I am slightly annoyed with the time sink and I while my logical brain tells me to pay this headache away, my emotional side is claiming, they are being assholes and running the Wells Fargo scam, so be an asshole back.  

Any advice?

 

I would say you handled this extremely poorly and it's going to cost you. 

Spam related to credit cards is the kind of spam you open and read to see if someone stole your shit, you also talk about freezing your credit bureau down but missing one, which is your fault and if you are savvy enough to do this and bank literally anywhere that's a major financial institution you would have alerts to new credit accounts set up. 

Even with all that if you called them instead of the police/your financial institution first for fraud. Not the delinquent account the institution. Then you tried to pay them with a prepaid debit card which makes no fucking sense, comenity is a real bank. 

This is all actually your fault, it's shitty that it happened to you, but both things can be true. 

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2 hours ago, Nivek said:

My wife went to Ulta Beauty and bought some stuff.  She swiped her AMEX card and left.   Later, I start getting these emails from Comenity Bank (Bread Financial) and since I do not have an account with them I assumed it was spam (I had also not heard of them).   Also received some mail from them.   I opened it up and saw it was for a credit card with some debt on it, late charges, interest, etc.   I chatted with my wife and she said she never opened an account (we do not own credit cards).    Furthermore the account is in my name, not hers.  It is tied to my social security, my email, etc.   Chatting with them on the phone, I had the run around, accusations by their $10 hour employees accusing us of fraud, being deadbeats, etc.  I did get them to agree verbally to take a payment for the products she purchased only,  but nothing else (fees, interest) and to close the account.  Their fraud department was contacted and they were useless.  

However, they only wanted me to send a personal check or use my bank debit card.   I offer to use a prepaid debit card, to which they refuse and claim they cannot process it.   They talk about their policy, I remind them I never signed any agreement to such.  I tell them my policy and I absolutely refuse to give them any more information about me considering I absolutely do not trust them.   So I again offer to pay them via the Visa Debit card, or allow them to eat the cost and shut down the account.   Their rep talks over me and eventually hangs up on me.   

Checking my credit, I had frozen 2 out of the 3 bureaus a while back, and this one slipped through.   I report them to the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, I dispute it with the 3 credit agencies.   I have not yet filed a police report.    My credit has fallen from 840 down into the 730 range due entirely to this.   I am considering purchasing a new home or possibly a new vehicle in the future but not within the next few months.   I am slightly annoyed with the time sink and I while my logical brain tells me to pay this headache away, my emotional side is claiming, they are being assholes and running the Wells Fargo scam, so be an asshole back.  

Any advice?

 

Stop everything you're doing, it is all wrong. 

1) If you don't owe someone something, don't offer to pay for it. That's evidence that will be used against you in establishing the debt. 

2) If your wife used the Amex to pay, presumably you'd have proof of that. Why is it that you're offering to pay again for these products? Have you shared proof of prior payment with either Ulta or Comenity? 

3) Were you speaking with Ulta Beauty or Comenity Bank? It isn't clear from your post. 

4) Are you sure you were actually chatting with one of the above entities and not scammers? Everything you've said about requiring a personal check or bank debit card sounds suspicious to me. 

5) Have you called Comenity Bank and requested proof that you signed up with them? There should be an agreement with your signature on it.  

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Comenity is an issuing bank as opposed to an acquiring bank or processor bank.  In a majority of situations like this, it's not some overseas hacker or "scam likely", it's somebody in the store.  Usually some assistant manager or night manager who has some basic access to the CC processing of the day.  Being they are part of an issuing bank network system, they can glean the CC information from the computer and switch it over (if they know what they're doing, it's not easy, but not impossible) over to a faked account.  This happened to be once with Best Buy.  The bank our firm bought in Chicago, since it became an issuing bank and preferred provider of Stripes digital payment platforms, gets dinged with this kinda fraud bullshit a few times per year.  

It's really tough to trace online, but if you can get somebody at the store or corporate or the bank to say when this supposed agreement for an in-store card was signed for in person with your information...you file a report with that county's Sheriff's office.  They won't do shit, but you want it on the record.  You then contact the store or bank directly with the report #, and request a timestamped video of when this apparent in-store CC application occurred.  They'll refuse.  But if your wife knows when she was there/has receipt, you say "Check 1234pm on XYZ date."  The bank will give you the run-around, but the store will get nervous because they all know one another's schedules pretty well.  20% of retail stores that offer in-store CC's run this scam and while most employees are not in on it, they are often thrown a bone or threatened to keep quiet.  You tell them that the local authorities know about the scheme, are going pull a warrant for the in-store video and employee schedule that day, you just need the fraudulent account to go away.  Most of them time they adhere and move on to the next victim.  Every once in awhile, somebody calls the move.  Then the other way, becomes the other way.  For the last 15 years, there's been a former Best Buy in-house "finance expert" walking around with a breathing problem from broken ribs and a ruptured spleen because he used somebody's information to open an account to give his friend a card with which to fly from Baltimore to Austin with a 48" flat screen and a new laptop.  The mid-level employees that pull this shit don't listen to their bank advisors.  They are low-level mob gangsters in matching polos.  Most of 'em cave under the threat of the investigation/shift dossier/time stamp request.  The rest, carry around oxygen tanks.  

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Sorry was getting interrupted a bit for the first post.

My wife swiped her AMEX card to pay for the products, but instead they, Ulta, opened a credit card account in my name. So she actually never paid for the products.

I never actually received the credit card either.

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7 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Sorry was getting interrupted a bit for the first post.

My wife swiped her AMEX card to pay for the products, but instead they, Ulta, opened a credit card account in my name. So she actually never paid for the products.

I never actually received the credit card either.

Dude that's not how that works. Either your wife is full of shit or you are. 

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My wife has had stuff pulled on her at some high-end retail places.  "How would you like to save X amount on your purchases today?"  She says "yes" -- then we get some bullshit credit card statement reflecting a purchase charge on an account with a bullshit $1,000 charge limit.  My job is to pay the charge and close the account.

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4 hours ago, Nivek said:

My wife swiped her AMEX card to pay for the products, but instead they, Ulta, opened a credit card account in my name. So she actually never paid for the products.

That's not how it works. Your wife had to fill out an application with social security numbers and shit. They gave her a free lipstick or eye liner for doing it. You're being double scammed by your wife and the beauty shop.

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what they've (except cruiser) said.  either purposefully or accidentally your wife's not telling you the entire story. you don't just swipe a valid cc and then a new card is opened and charged against without any charges shown on the original amex. she had to have given other info (SSN, for example) to have an account opened even fraudulently.

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Hey, that's Lobo to you...Mister!  I didn't want to bring up that potentially sensitive topic about the wife.  But it's happened to me bad on two occasions.  If I have your address, there's a better than not chance you've lived in that same state since birth.  Those are the middle two SSN digits.  People voluntarily give up their last 4 SSN digits almost on a daily basis.  Even a dipshit night manager at Ulta can write a code to run the 1000 combinations of the first the first three numbers.  Made even easier because to join their "rewards" program, you give up your home address, dob (for special birthday cosmetics obviously!), phone number (so we can text you with special offers!), etc.  It's even easier when their in-house CC is tied to an issuing-bank, though the scam is typically tied to just a small group of mid-level folks at a certain location.  It gets a little trickier when it's tied to a financing line like buying $5000 in appliances at a Best Buy, but still nowhere as difficult as hacking into an entire banking system.  

About 80% of the time in our 50-state bank's experience, giving the store a County Sheriff's case # and then saying they need to pull the video of the person opening the account on certain date/time that the receipt reflects...they back down.  But shitty thing is, it takes for fucking ever to get that shit off your credit report.  The other 20% of the time, yeah somebody you love is lying or somebody you hate has to be hurt.  

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Yup, bad news. Your wife opened the account. Maybe she didn't know that was what she was doing. But they said something like "sign here to save 20%" and she went a long with it. 

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7 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Yup, bad news. Your wife opened the account. Maybe she didn't know that was what she was doing. But they said something like "sign here to save 20%" and she went a long with it. 

She owes money all over town

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4 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I’m giving your address to fingerhut.  Enjoy their superb products, amazing prices, and low low interest rates. 

Fingerhut?  And their Assistant Manager's name?  You guessed it.  South Austin's Mom.  

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Posted (edited)

Since you mentioned the Ulta Beauty story, you must know that is where the charges are from, and that the charges never hit the Amex card. It's not fraud from the credit card company if you owe them. You're mad at the new credit card company but they gave you & wife credit in good faith.

Pay the bill, late fees plus interest and close the account. Given that you say you don't have credit card (FYI, Amex is a credit card), I imagine the fees and interest aspect will be painful for you. I hate paying them with a passion.

Is it possible that your wife opened an account without her knowledge or full agreement? That would only seem possible if you can use one credit card (Amex) to apply for another. CC companies do like to make applications easy so maybe that's a new thing with a card swipe and hitting the ok button a couple of times. 

 

EDIT: Bread Financial offers a co-branded card with Amex. https://www.breadfinancial.com/en/bread-financial-cashback-card.html I can see that Amex may have allowed a quick application since they already know who you are.

 

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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On 7/3/2024 at 10:16 PM, DalTxHornFan said:

My wife has had stuff pulled on her at some high-end retail places.  "How would you like to save X amount on your purchases today?"  She says "yes" -- then we get some bullshit credit card statement reflecting a purchase charge on an account with a bullshit $1,000 charge limit.  My job is to pay the charge and close the account.

My brother in Christ, the amount of cards I've had to do this for over the years range from Carter's, Old Navy, JCP, Macy's, NFM, Ashley's furniture, and Target. Instant close out the accounts but she didn't stop.

Then she did it with the Sam's credit card and we've actually kept that one and get like $1000 in cash a year.

Sorry I'm old and rambling, but yes, the memories. Also the guy's wife 100% took out the Ulta card and forgot about it.

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6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Pay the bill, late fees plus interest and close the account. Given that you say you don't have credit card (FYI, Amex is a credit card), I imagine the fees and 

 

 

On 7/3/2024 at 1:40 PM, Gil Bang said:

some folks consider Amex to be a "charge card" and believe it's different from a "credit card".

Also, maybe I'm just old fashioned, but isn't there still a distinction between a charge card and a credit card?

My AMEX has no pre-set limit or credit limit, for example. And I'm expected to pay it off completely. Isn't that a difference?

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1 minute ago, Vegas64 said:

 

Also, maybe I'm just old fashioned, but isn't there still a distinction between a charge card and a credit card?

My AMEX has no pre-set limit or credit limit, for example. And I'm expected to pay it off completely. Isn't that a difference?

You most likely have a pre-set limit that you're unaware. Perhaps it's just not stated. And I believe most or all of the Amex charge cards now allow you to pay over time in exchange for 20% interest.

I don't know the legal distinction between the two but paying over time is credit.

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12 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

You most likely have a pre-set limit that you're unaware. Perhaps it's just not stated. And I believe most or all of the Amex charge cards now allow you to pay over time in exchange for 20% interest.

I don't know the legal distinction between the two but paying over time is credit.

I mean, I am sure that American Express won't let me charge $5mm to Yachts R Us in Newport, California, if that is what you mean, but I just checked and threw an arbitrary number to see if it would let me charge it:

Quote

 

You're approved for $50,000.00.

This approval is based on your current account status. You can make a purchase equal to this amount for 48 hours.

 

Quote

 

Not approved at this time.

Requested Amount: $100,000.00

The requested amount is higher than we normally see on your account. We need additional information to further evaluate this request. Please call the number on the back of your Card.

 

 

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Back to the original topic, many if not most of the companies that peddle the cc have the ability to do it all through the pad upon which you normally swipe/tap/insert your cc.  The script is something like "hi ma'am would you like to sign up for our store-branded credit card and get x% off this purchase?"  Then a bunch of prompts come up on the pad, which, not surprisingly, make it very easy for you to apply.  Couple of checkboxes, one of which for sure says "you understand you are applying for a credit card" another which for sure says "you give us the right to run a credit check," a signature, they run a credit check on the spot and voila (walla?) a new credit card is opened and the purchases are charged to it.  The discount may not apply until after the first billing cycle.

So I wouldn't say this is a scam.  Just taking advantage of people who aren't paying attention.

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Okay, do we get to have somebody beaten into an ER visit or not?  Or is this just about some broad trying to upsell another broad into a high-interest rate lip-gloss?  It's been two years since I've had anybody hurt and I'm getting anxious.  Not 18% APR anxious, but close.  

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On 7/5/2024 at 10:18 AM, Vegas64 said:

I mean, I am sure that American Express won't let me charge $5mm to Yachts R Us in Newport, California, if that is what you mean, but I just checked and threw an arbitrary number to see if it would let me charge it:

 

You are correct. I tried a leveraged buyout of Shell Oil using my gas station credit card with no limit, and Shell wouldn't allow the purchase.

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On 7/5/2024 at 1:43 PM, shakahorn said:

Back to the original topic, many if not most of the companies that peddle the cc have the ability to do it all through the pad upon which you normally swipe/tap/insert your cc.  The script is something like "hi ma'am would you like to sign up for our store-branded credit card and get x% off this purchase?"  Then a bunch of prompts come up on the pad, which, not surprisingly, make it very easy for you to apply.  Couple of checkboxes, one of which for sure says "you understand you are applying for a credit card" another which for sure says "you give us the right to run a credit check," a signature, they run a credit check on the spot and voila (walla?) a new credit card is opened and the purchases are charged to it.  The discount may not apply until after the first billing cycle.

So I wouldn't say this is a scam.  Just taking advantage of people who aren't paying attention.

She is pretty good with money, overall but It could have been a situation like this.  But she didn't and wouldn't give out my SSN, and once again the Ulta Comenity Credit Card is in my name.  She didn't show my ID (she doesn't have it) and I was not there, and while our AMEX is joint, I am the primary cardholder.  She remembers the clerk swiping the card.  I am not saying that my SSN and shoe size are on the magnetic strip, but if the company has my information already, they could just confirm the account is valid, and then go ahead and generated the unwanted account.   Ultimately, there is no fucking way any person should be able to create a credit card account without the person applying being present and verified.    It is not like she doesn't have her own credit history which mirrored mine until I got dinged.   

Ultimately, the issue is the payment for the goods.   They want me to pay them on their terms.  I refuse.  I offered to pay them on my terms.  They refused.   

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I'm still a little lost on how his wife  hands over an AMEX for a purchase without agreeing to sign up for a store card, the card is  swiped for that purchase,  she receives a receipt with the purchase transaction details  and somehow that  charge never hits the AMEX account tied to that card. It doesn't add up. There are some major credibility issues here, and frankly I'm now starting to have doubts that OP can, in fact, slaughter a  pack  of  wolves with his bare hands. 

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9 minutes ago, Blotto said:

I'm still a little lost on how his wife  hands over an AMEX for a purchase without agreeing to sign up for a store card, the card is  swiped for that purchase,  she receives a receipt with the purchase transaction details  and somehow that  charge never hits the AMEX account tied to that card. It doesn't add up. There are some major credibility issues here, and frankly I'm now starting to have doubts that OP can, in fact, slaughter a  pack  of  wolves with his bare hands. 

He could handle the wolves. As long as they don't charge him.

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nivek,

the most important part of this whole thing is you saying:

On 7/3/2024 at 10:00 PM, Nivek said:

My wife swiped her AMEX card to pay for the products, but instead they, Ulta, opened a credit card account in my name. So she actually never paid for the products.

if you never saw a transaction from ulta on your amex card, then i am sorry and your wife is utterly full of shit in saying she did not open a credit account with the store in order to "totally get like 10% back in blush savings" or whatever. you did not get scammed. your wife just did something dumb.

you offering to pay the issuing bank with a prepaid gift card is pretty awesome though. appreciate the laugh.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/7/2024 at 10:47 PM, Nivek said:

Ultimately, there is no fucking way any person should be able to create a credit card account without the person applying being present and verified.    It is not like she doesn't have her own credit history which mirrored mine until I got dinged.   

I assume the Amex is your name. Hence why the store credit card is now in your name. 

For the first time in years, I bought something at Best Buy this weekend. When completing the transaction on the pad, it asked me if I wanted a best buy card. I hit no, but I assume it would have been an relatively easy process and a couple of clicks to get one. Most likely my BoA card, that I was using, would have been all that I needed and BoA probably would receive a kickback award from BB.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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All you need to get a credit card is a valid credit card, They use that as proof of payment and approve. Sure the interest rate is 22%, but you can make minimum payments of $35 and it's all good.

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Seems like there should be some attempt at identity verification but the amex being a joint account it probably wouldn't have mattered.  I don't doubt that it happens, it's dumb that AMEX is going to give your info to another party all based on an illegible digital signature.  Hell half the time I don't even attempt a signature on the pad, I just scribble a line across. 

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4 hours ago, sidis said:

nivek,

the most important part of this whole thing is you saying:

if you never saw a transaction from ulta on your amex card, then i am sorry and your wife is utterly full of shit in saying she did not open a credit account with the store in order to "totally get like 10% back in blush savings" or whatever. you did not get scammed. your wife just did something dumb.

you offering to pay the issuing bank with a prepaid gift card is pretty awesome though. appreciate the laugh.

I believe her.  She refuses that shit all the time.  No department store credit, etc.   Has never happened before and she is financially pretty conservative.   Even if she did say "sure" mindlessly, the idea that they already had my info ready to go is disturbing, because there is a far fucking cry from "sure" to handing out 9 digit numbers, birthdays, addresses, and then signing on my behalf with the clerks approval and no ID check.  Can I walk in there and just sign up as Elon Musk for a credit card?  So yeah, it is a scam.   

 

 

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was showing houses today, not close to my own home.  Had a breakfast burrito mishap, and had to run in TJ Maxx to buy a new shirt (they were the next freeway exit after the mishap).  I'm buying a 20 dollar shirt, using my Visa.  Cashier is trying to convince me that I really need to open a TJ Maxx credit card, because I'll save 10% on today's purchase...of a 20 dollar shirt.

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18 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

was showing houses today, not close to my own home.  Had a breakfast burrito mishap, and had to run in TJ Maxx to buy a new shirt undies (they were the next freeway exit after the mishap).  I'm buying a 20 dollar shirt, using my Visa.  Cashier is trying to convince me that I really need to open a TJ Maxx credit card, because I'll save 10% on today's purchase...of a 20 dollar shirt.

 

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