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Star Wars Episode IX

Red Five

By Red Five
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Eskimohorn

Eskimohorn 5642

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Watched the first Indiana Jones with the kids tonight. It's currently on netflix. 
The credits came on and one name caught my eye
Spoiler

Associate to Mr. Spielberg   Kathleen Kennedy.
Quite a career from Associate to Mr. Spielberg to President of Lucas Films and ruining Star Wars

 



Her producer credits go back to ET. Screenwriter John Milius foisted her on Spielberg during the movie 1941. She then co-founded Amblin.
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Surly Bevo
Surly Bevo

Drew again...you are such a beating, take a fucking hint some times you toolspank.  

oSuJeff97
oSuJeff97

Agreed 100%.  There's a ton that I like about Rogue One, up to and including Vader's badassery: I love the idea that Cassian is sort of a Rebel CIA guy who is conflicted about all of the ba

Hanrahan
Hanrahan

The movie was good. The Last Jedi was dogshit. JJ gave it the respect it deserved. Your opinions are all wrong and terrible.

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aggie08

aggie08 21514

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Finally got around to seeing this thing. 

It was bright, loud, dumb, suffered from ADD (probably to not give you time to dwell on how dumb it is), was full of deus ex machinas, McGuffins, and happy coincidences, and all of the attempts at humor and genuine emotion fell flat or were cringe worthy (even by Star Wars standards)...

...but it was generally a fun, entertaining popcorn movie.

So, basically a JJ Abrams movie. Still beats the hell out of insultingly dumb and boring like the last one.

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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38 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

it's way fucking better than the crap JJ served up.

have you heard the "infinite monkey theorem", the idea that a million monkeys typing away at a million typewriters for a million years will eventually produce the works of Shakespeare?

six monkeys typing on four typewriters for fifteen minutes will produce something better than Rise of Skywalker

Edited by SwanderedTalent
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mdmost

mdmost 43016

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There's a really bad line in the Duel of the Fates script that almost makes it seem fake. There's a point where the Rebellistance is about to be victorious against Supreme Chancellor Hux (yeah, really) who is apparently a big Force fanboi. He has a purple bladed lightsaber. He ignites it and seppukus himself as "he realized he had lost the Star Wars". 

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Js1

Js1 85494

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2 hours ago, mdmost said:

There's a really bad line in the Duel of the Fates script that almost makes it seem fake. There's a point where the Rebellistance is about to be victorious against Supreme Chancellor Hux (yeah, really) who is apparently a big Force fanboi. He has a purple bladed lightsaber. He ignites it and seppukus himself as "he realized he had lost the Star Wars". 

Wouldn't be worth it unless he actually says it out loud.

"I have lost the Star Wars"

*stabs self

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11365

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4 hours ago, Red Five said:

It's only been about two months but I don't really remember anything about this movie.

well, lando is in it. there's force healing all of a sudden. and instead of blue force ghosts, apparently now force ghosts look real. um, there's a moment when we think chewy dies, but they all lulz, just kidding here's the other transport with chewy in it. oh, and we killed c3po? or something. i dunno, but he's fine in the end. oh, and...

 

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ajax

ajax 2620

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20 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I remember they faked me out with the Chewy death and I was fucking pissed for a few minutes.

I bet you were relieved when they played the rousing, triumphant music and they showed Chewie still alive, all dejected, in custody, and in handcuffs. That was a weird scene. Maybe they should have shown Chewie all defiant, throwing off some storm troopers instead of looking all hangdog.

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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18022

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18 hours ago, Js1 said:

Wouldn't be worth it unless he actually says it out loud.

"I have lost the Star Wars"

*stabs self

Read that line like William Shatner and it rules all...

I have lost...THE...Star. Wars.

 

Also, should Kylo have really been dying from a gut stab from a lightsaber? They cauterize the would instantly. He wouldn't bleed out and as long as you missed the heart or spine, he should be relatively good. At least for a while.

 

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mdmost

mdmost 43016

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7 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Read that line like William Shatner and it rules all...

I have lost...THE...Star. Wars.

 

Also, should Kylo have really been dying from a gut stab from a lightsaber? They cauterize the would instantly. He wouldn't bleed out and as long as you missed the heart or spine, he should be relatively good. At least for a while.

 

I would think a liquified stomach or pancreas would probably kill you pretty quickly as the bile spills into your blood stream.  

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Trey3216

Trey3216 15352

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21 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Read that line like William Shatner and it rules all...

I have lost...THE...Star. Wars.

 

Also, should Kylo have really been dying from a gut stab from a lightsaber? They cauterize the would instantly. He wouldn't bleed out and as long as you missed the heart or spine, he should be relatively good. At least for a while.

 

Cauterize the Would sounds like a pretty badass band name  

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mulletpelini

mulletpelini 5215

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On 2/13/2020 at 2:07 PM, Biff Tannen said:

I remember they faked me out with the Chewy death and I was fucking pissed for a few minutes.

Something about the absurdity of the ship tug-o-war never let my mind think about "Chewy" being on that ship

On 2/15/2020 at 1:03 PM, Drew said:

Still Sucks.  For the same damn reasons.  Just a fuck you to real Star Wars fans, especially the ones who didn't cry and complain about TLJ.  Fuck you JJ...I'm usually a supporter of yours.

Nice try, getting us to agree with you now about TLJ.....ewofucker

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Drew

Drew 2512

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21 hours ago, mulletpelini said:

Something about the absurdity of the ship tug-o-war never let my mind think about "Chewy" being on that ship

Nice try, getting us to agree with you now about TLJ.....ewofucker

Almost...but I know you're just pissed Wicket was only on screen for 5 seconds.

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Kyle

Kyle 207

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I saw the movie over the break, and I left happy and entertained and appreciated the fact that it was more of a love letter to fans than some P.C. crap. For good or bad, I thought the Palpatine connection helped put Rey's Mary Sue in the first movies in context. The Stormjanitor remained a complete waste of space, Poe needed more screen time, dead Carrier Fisher is weird. And I loved how much the absence of terrible Tico annoys the PC crowd. Also agree with the myriad stupid plot holes outlined here ad nauseam - from the quick sand to the space horses, a bunch of crap did not make sense or too easy. Whatever though, I enjoyed it, and it tied a bow around the series. And the end of they day, Star Wars always has been a space western - a space spaghetti western. It lived up to that billing much better than TFA and TLJ.

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aggie08

aggie08 21514

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The same one that we spent the last 5 hours showing how conflicted and unsure he was?  Bringing added depth to his character was literally the only thing that Rian Johnson did right.  I suppose a more talented writer/director could have built on that to flesh out a more nuanced, complex, even sympathetic villain.  But I think we can all agree that JJ Abrams is not that guy.

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fellside

fellside 1114

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2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

The same one that we spent the last 5 hours showing how conflicted and unsure he was?  Bringing added depth to his character was literally the only thing that Rian Johnson did right.  I suppose a more talented writer/director could have built on that to flesh out a more nuanced, complex, even sympathetic villain.  But I think we can all agree that JJ Abrams is not that guy.

It wouldn't have been hard to make Kylo a once conflicted, growingly evil main bad guy.  He is one of two good characters left in the series and would make a much better villain than Snoke or undead Palpatine.

As to the guy who liked it because it wasn't "PC crap" I'm gonna go ahead and guess you're one of those people who complains about commercials with mixed race couples or how the media's trying to shove (insert female perfomer) down your throat.

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

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I'm the biggest Star Wars apologist out there, but it still sort of confounds me that they didn't lay out a 3-movie narrative arc ahead of time.  

They had every opportunity in the world to do this.  They knew they were making a trilogy before they started; they signed up the core new actors for 3 movies.... why the slapdash approach to telling the story, basically starting from scratch three straight times?

I just don't get it.

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mdmost

mdmost 43016

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Because Disney saw this strictly as a money making venture. The timeline for these movies was way too accelerated. I believe the announcement of the sequel trilogy to the time it was released was 2 years. Everything was way too rushed. Iger wanted it to be like Marvel movies, something cranked out every year. Star Wars is not Marvel. It's a much smaller universe that people want stories out of. Marvel has 50 years of existing lore to build off of.

The original trilogy and prequel trilogy movies were each released within 3 years of the preceding one and had one person running the overall shape of the universe, granted with lots of help with editing and writing, at least for the first trilogy. 1977, 1980, 1983. 1999, 2002, 2005. Cramming it out and not slowly releasing these is a lot of the reason why they were so disjointed. The original trilogy each had different writers and directors. But Lucas had a way to tie them all together through his vision. Kathleen Kennedy isn't that person. She's a producer, not a visionary. It's pretty telling that only one of the Disney movies didn't have major issues with writing or directing, The Last Jedi. The rest all had issues with one or the other, Rogue One and TFA with writing and reshoots, Solo and Rise with firing directors and completely redoing the movie. The Mandalorian worked because Favreau wrote them all and Filoni was the creative vision behind it. 

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

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5 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Because Disney saw this strictly as a money making venture. The timeline for these movies was way too accelerated. I believe the announcement of the sequel trilogy to the time it was released was 2 years. Everything was way too rushed. Iger wanted it to be like Marvel movies, something cranked out every year. Star Wars is not Marvel. It's a much smaller universe that people want stories out of. Marvel has 50 years of existing lore to build off of.

The original trilogy and prequel trilogy movies were each released within 3 years of the preceding one and had one person running the overall shape of the universe, granted with lots of help with editing and writing, at least for the first trilogy. 1977, 1980, 1983. 1999, 2002, 2005. Cramming it out and not slowly releasing these is a lot of the reason why they were so disjointed. The original trilogy each had different writers and directors. But Lucas had a way to tie them all together through his vision. Kathleen Kennedy isn't that person. She's a producer, not a visionary. It's pretty telling that only one of the Disney movies didn't have major issues with writing or directing, The Last Jedi. The rest all had issues with one or the other, Rogue One and TFA with writing and reshoots, Solo and Rise with firing directors and completely redoing the movie. The Mandalorian worked because Favreau wrote them all and Filoni was the creative vision behind it. 

I'm sure the timeline didn't help, but the 3-year span between the original films and the prequels didn't have anything to do with story development. It largely had to do with the very long post-production time because, in both the OT and prequel trilogy, ILM was literally inventing VFX techniques that they were using in each film.  They weren't doing anything like that in the new films... everything was pretty much stuff that everyone has been doing for years.

They had PLENTY of time to, at a bare minimum, outline the story they were trying to tell over the three-movie arc.  They didn't need to have three finished scripts before they started shooting TFA, but it literally appears they had NO IDEA where the story was going.  Their strategy was to let Abrams do what he wanted with the first one, then let a new writer/director pick up the story and take it wherever they wanted.  That's just fucking stupid, in terms of storytelling.

They could have very easily churned out 1 movie a year by filling in with the anthology movies, like they started to do with Rouge One and Solo.  THAT'S where you give writer/directors free reign to do whatever they want around edges of the main story. Rogue One was perfect in that way.  Solo was less so because (if it were me) I wouldn't have let the anthology stories deal with any of the primary saga main characters.

Oh well.

Hopefully the success of The Mandalorian will enable Filoni/Faverau to be the new "caretakers" of all future Star Wars stories.

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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1 hour ago, oSuJeff97 said:

They could have very easily churned out 1 movie a year by filling in with the anthology movies, like they started to do with Rouge One and Solo.  THAT'S where you give writer/directors free reign to do whatever they want around edges of the main story. Rogue One was perfect in that way.  Solo was less so because (if it were me) I wouldn't have let the anthology stories deal with any of the primary saga main characters.

They tried to do it your way with a movie every year, and people didn't like what they produced. You as a "Star Wars apologist" might not see this, but it is likely that there is a finite amount of interesting, meaningful content that can be produced from the "Star Wars universe", especially when you're trying to stretch something as thin as the story underlying the first three movies into a prequel and then sequel trilogy. 

On the subject of the development timeline, slowing down wouldn't have guaranteed that the content produced was high-quality, but it would have allowed for more time to reflect on the choices being made, and more time to fix it if it were found lacking. 

None of this matters because it's so hard to lose money on Star Wars, no matter how badly you do it. Partly because no matter how badly you do it, there will still be people offering excuses for it and insisting "bad isn't that bad, it's still entertainment". 

The original trilogy was a fun, silly, light story. The prequel trilogy was an earnest but clumsy and unnecessary effort to backfill more of that story. The sequel trilogy was a trashy, soulless cash grab. The only thing that amazes me at this point is that more people weren't insulted enough to tune it out. 

Edited by SwanderedTalent
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WBT

WBT 20650

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18 minutes ago, Red Five said:

They brought back a major character from the dead after 35 years and didn’t explain why he wasn’t dead anymore. He was just there.

And his death ended the redemption arc that tied the first 6 movies together.  No biggie.

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

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1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

They tried to do it your way with a movie every year, and people didn't like what they produced. You as a "Star Wars apologist" might not see this, but it is likely that there is a finite amount of interesting, meaningful content that can be produced from the "Star Wars universe", especially when you're trying to stretch something as thin as the story underlying the first three movies into a prequel and then sequel trilogy. 

Bullshit.  It's only constrained by the imaginations of the creators.

Look what Dave Filoni has done with Clone Wars, Rebels and the Mandalorian.  He's created a shit ton of fantastic Star Wars content in three different eras of the Star Wars universe. (Also due credit to Jon Faverau for the Mandalorian)

As for the anthology films, the fans general reaction to Rogue One was almost universally positive.  Solo was more mixed, but that highlights my main issue in that they shouldn't have centered an anthology film around one of the OT's main characters. 

There are PLENTY of good stories that can be told in the SW universe.  They just need the right people (Filoni, Favreau) to tell them.

Edited by oSuJeff97
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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11365

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1 hour ago, Red Five said:

They brought back a major character from the dead after 35 years and didn’t explain why he wasn’t dead anymore. He was just there.

 

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

And everyone was just like...okay. 

 

49 minutes ago, WBT said:

And his death ended the redemption arc that tied the first 6 movies together.  No biggie.

it was a truly bizarre decision, but their hand was forced when rian johnson had kylo murder snoke (and don't get me started on snoke, or the whole story framing in general, or i could seriously nerd out on what they should have done) which left them bereft of a big bad. the plan for kylo all along was some sort of redemption but they fucked the whole thing up from the jump. for one, the republic and the first order should have been in opposite places of power, but whatever.

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mdmost

mdmost 43016

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I really don't understand how you couldn't just have Kylo be the villain of the final one and in the end he has a Colonel Nicholson from Bridge Over the River Kwai moment of "my God, what have I done" where he realizes his mistakes and accepts what he must do to redeem himself. You could've had the First Order spin out of his control where he and Rey then have a common enemy. There was lots of things you could've done with Kylo but it's much easier for JJ to have his Big Bad out of nowhere...just like Snoke, a.k.a. Emperor Puppettine.  

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