Star Wars Episode IX

[oSuJeff97 3435]

2 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I guess they should get better creators then!!!!! Because the last three movies they made were widely disparaged trainwrecks.

Agreed.

That's why I said Filoni and Faverau should be in charge of, or at least have input, on every Star Wars story going forward. 

Just in terms of storytelling, Clone Wars, Rebels and the Mandalorian collectively are the best Star Wars content to come out since the OT, and it's not particularly close.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

2 hours ago, mdmost said:

I really don't understand how you couldn't just have Kylo be the villain of the final one and in the end he has a Colonel Nicholson from Bridge Over the River Kwai moment of "my God, what have I done" where he realizes his mistakes and accepts what he must do to redeem himself. You could've had the First Order spin out of his control where he and Rey then have a common enemy. There was lots of things you could've done with Kylo but it's much easier for JJ to have his Big Bad out of nowhere...just like Snoke, a.k.a. Emperor Puppettine.  

From a broader perspective, I think it would have been really interesting to not just re-tread "Rebels vs. Empire!"

On a broad scale, the prequels were how a Republic crumbles from within and becomes a totalitarian Empire; the OT was about a rebellion against that Empire and restoring the galactic Republic.

The new trilogy could have broadly examined another attempt to subvert the Republic from within and form another Empire, but this time the plot is stopped and the new Galactic Republic "wins."  That (to me) makes a lot more sense than some Empire splinter group completely destroying the new Republic and just taking over out of nowhere. 

The whole idea of the "Resistance" even existing right off the bat in TFA just seemed so weird.... why was a "Resistance" to the First Order even needed? 

If it was a known threat, why couldn't the actual established government take care of it?  When one thinks of a "Resistance" it is typically against a tyrannical government or an occupying force... not against (essentially) a splinter terrorist organization bent on overthrowing the existing government.

Just dumb, lazy writing.

Edited February 21, 2020 by oSuJeff97

[hayden_horn 11362]

18 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

From a broader perspective, I think it would have been really interesting to not just re-tread "Rebels vs. Empire!"

On a broad scale, the prequels were how a Republic crumbles from within and becomes a totalitarian Empire; the OT was about a rebellion against that Empire and restoring the galactic Republic.

The new trilogy could have broadly examined another attempt to subvert the Republic from within and form another Empire, but this time the plot is stopped and the new Galactic Republic "wins."  That (to me) makes a lot more sense than some Empire splinter group completely destroying the new Republic and just taking over out of nowhere. 

The whole idea of the "Resistance" even existing right off the bat in TFA just seemed so weird.... why was a "Resistance" to the First Order even needed? 

If it was a known threat, why couldn't the actual established government take care of it?  When one thinks of a "Resistance" it is typically against a tyrannical government or an occupying force... not against (essentially) a splinter terrorist organization bent on overthrowing the existing government.

Just dumb, lazy writing.

yes, this is basically where i was heading above when i said they needed to be in opposite spots. i mean, the first order could still be an imperial splinter group, but they are the ones now in rebellion to the republic. that's the starting point, and they need a charismatic villain, not brooding kylo ren and snoke, whatever the fuck a snoke is. kylo should have been a confident, evil version of han solo. he wasn't. he was the hayden christiansen of the new trilogy. decent enough actor trying to act out a terribly conceived character. 

darth vader works because he's such an iconic arrogant badass. kylo is a wannabe, which is kind of okay, but he needs to be a badass wannabe. you can even have him throwing his lightsaber tantrum, showing he's not fully in control of his emotions. that's okay, i reckon. but his vying for snoke's (whatever the fuck a snoke is) favor with hux is a bit silly. i don't think them being natural rivals is a bad thing, in and of itself, but snoke snoking about really doesn't explain what a snoke is and why the fuck he's in charge here.

[hayden_horn 11362]

and don't get me started on "starkiller base." what the actual fuck was that stupid shit. talk about a macguffin to eliminate the republic and establish first order hegemony. why would they kill all the people they want to rule? makes no fucking sense. the whole thing was a cock up from the start, and it all comes down to basic outlining for a cohesive narrative. 

[Kyle 207]

On 2/19/2020 at 5:49 PM, fellside said:

It wouldn't have been hard to make Kylo a once conflicted, growingly evil main bad guy.  He is one of two good characters left in the series and would make a much better villain than Snoke or undead Palpatine.

As to the guy who liked it because it wasn't "PC crap" I'm gonna go ahead and guess you're one of those people who complains about commercials with mixed race couples or how the media's trying to shove (insert female perfomer) down your throat.

Bless your heart - I think www.match.com still offers a free trial. Get some old pics, try to find some personality, and give it a shot. Projection is so 2000s.

The problem with Kylo is they modeled him after a Bernie Bro - an emasculated, angry pussy than bullies people but completely lacks substance.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Kyle

[Kyle 207]

On 2/19/2020 at 3:03 PM, Drew said:

The Palpatine connection was not only stupid, but completely forced and unneeded.  And lived up to the billing better than TFA and TLJ?  LMFAO.

 

Why? The community college catalog and Mary Sue and Stormjanitor were the definition of forced and unneeded.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

On 2/21/2020 at 5:34 PM, hayden_horn said:

and don't get me started on "starkiller base." what the actual fuck was that stupid shit. talk about a macguffin to eliminate the republic and establish first order hegemony. why would they kill all the people they want to rule? makes no fucking sense. the whole thing was a cock up from the start, and it all comes down to basic outlining for a cohesive narrative. 

Yeah it was stupid.  I'm fine with the First Order/Imperial splinter group developing some kind of super weapon in secret.... but for fuck's sake... don't just blow it up at the end of the first movie exactly like they did in Star Wars.  Do something different/interesting with it. 

Make it a looming threat that spans all three movies... maybe even show the First Order leadership debating on the merits of using it (for the very reason you describe) for added tension or something... making them less cardboard cutout villains... then you could have the "use it" side win out and wipe out almost all of the New Republic at the end of the second movie or something, putting the "good guys" in the "bad spot" leading into the final film.

There were soooo many possibilities that could have been so cool.  Oh well.

Again: lazy writing.

[Buzzrock 14903]

Palpatine was a clone:

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-palpatine-clone-rise-skywalker-confirm-novel/amp/

Groan.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

15 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

Palpatine was a clone:

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-palpatine-clone-rise-skywalker-confirm-novel/amp/

Groan.

oh good, they can bring him back if they need him in Episode XII

[Red Five 40847]

So not just a clone. A clone with the Palpatine's "spirit" inside? Yeah, maybe no explanation at all was the right call. 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

 

[UT_OB1 2217]

4 hours ago, Red Five said:

So not just a clone. A clone with the Palpatine's "spirit" inside? Yeah, maybe no explanation at all was the right call. 

That is very similar to the EU Dark Empire storyline, and I just assumed that was the case even though they didn't state it.  The Darksaber storyline was very good, but they couldn't do that anymore with 60-70 year old Luke, Leia, and Han.  I think they could have made something better out of it if the idea of Palpatine had been introduced in TFA. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by UT_OB1

[mulletpelini 5210]

cloning Rey from lukes severed hand would have been a much better storyline.....would have explained why she freaked out when she first touched it.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

10 hours ago, UT_OB1 said:

That is very similar to the EU Dark Empire storyline, and I just assumed that was the case even though they didn't state it.  The Darksaber storyline was very good, but they couldn't do that anymore with 60-70 year old Luke, Leia, and Han.  I think they could have made something better out of it if the idea of Palpatine had been introduced in TFA. 

Dark empire was Shakespeare compared to this shit though. 
Imperial civil war, Hutt underground, complex Luke. 

world devastators, unlike star killer base actually made sense   

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Xian

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

10 hours ago, mulletpelini said:

would have explained why she freaked out when she first touched it.

that's a story for another time

[hayden_horn 11362]

11 hours ago, mulletpelini said:

cloning Rey from lukes severed hand would have been a much better storyline.....would have explained why she freaked out when she first touched it.

 

37 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

that's a story for another time

i honestly think that was the initial plan. 

god this thing was all over the place. "story for another time" then never mention it again. wtf. would actually make sense for her to claim the name skywalker in the end.

[Red Five 40847]

i honestly think that was the initial plan. 
god this thing was all over the place. "story for another time" then never mention it again. wtf. would actually make sense for her to claim the name skywalker in the end.

Imagine reading this story as a series of books, or one big book.
“Wtf??”

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

8 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

 

i honestly think that was the initial plan. 

god this thing was all over the place. "story for another time" then never mention it again. wtf. would actually make sense for her to claim the name skywalker in the end.

The fan response to the sequel trilogy has become so contentious that you have bullshit criticisms mixing in with legitimate ones, but even as someone who didn't care for TFA, I think there was plenty of story there that could have made for two acceptable sequels-- i.e., expounding on the how/why of the first one instead of Rian Johnson binning it and spiking the football in doing so. You will hear people deride TFA as pretty, pointless, derivative fan service, but I think that's only valid in light of what the 2nd and 3rd movies made of TFA's open storylines. Which is to say, nothing. 

They had a choice to make Maz Kanata or whatever her name was a key character in the 2nd and 3rd movies and develop that dangling storyline, and instead introduced and focused on new and dumb characters like Rose Tico and Admiral Holdo, retroactively making the Maz character pointless too. Nice.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

10 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Imagine reading this story as a series of books, or one big book.
“Wtf??”

(flipping rapidly after finishing)

"Are there... are there pages missing.....?"

[Kyle 207]

Captain Obvious - how can Rouge One, The Mandalorian, even Solo be awesome and these all stink? <bullettohead>

[Red Five 40847]

(flipping rapidly after finishing)
"Are there... are there pages missing.....?"

For half the book, Snoke is the big bad guy, mysteriously pulling the strings behind the scenes. But then he’s dead, and Palpatine is back, somehow, and is now mysteriously pulling the strings behind the scenes.

[mulletpelini 5210]

Was doing some updating on the office system the other night so I pulled up Ep. 4 on Disney and went ahead and watched the whole thing.  Probably somewhere north of 150x in my life I've seen this movie and yep still better than everything we've seen after 1982.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

On 3/3/2020 at 1:14 PM, Red Five said:

For half the book, Snoke is the big bad guy, mysteriously pulling the strings behind the scenes. But then he’s dead, and Palpatine is back, somehow, and is now mysteriously pulling the strings behind the scenes.

I can fix that

* hire George Lucas

* go back into TFA and whatever the second one was called and CGI replace Snoke with Palpatine

* insert 100% CGI scene in the last one where Rey and Kylo Ren talk and he's like "I thought we killed Palpatine?" and Rey says "no-- the Force is telling me IT WAS A CLONE, we have to stop this phantom menace before more clones can attack and get revenge for the Sith" 

easy peasy

[bad_teammate 13192]

When they were shooting the cannons out from under the ships at the end it looked like their dicks were falling off.

 

I'm an intelligent consumer and critic of film.

[billfromlaketravis 11448]

Watching at a steep discount on Disney +. This movie sucks. Nothing works. Doesn’t look right. Doesn’t feel right. 

It'll never happen, but please Hollywood don’t give J.J. Abrams anything important again.

[Red Five 40847]

I don't know. We all have our "here's what Lucas should have done with the prequels" ideas (Hayden has written books on this, imo) but I'm not sure what Abrams could have done with this after what he was left. Han, Luke, and Carrie Fisher were all dead and so was the big bad guy from the first two movies. There really wasn't a movie to be made, plot wise. So yeah, "hey look at this! Look at that! Quick don't stop to think. Hey look it's the Emperor! He's back! How? Doesn't matter. Hey look it's Lando! Remember Lando? Isn't this fun?"

[mdmost 43001]

More Mandalorians and Rogue Ones. Less sequel trilogies that didn’t need to exist.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

1 hour ago, Red Five said:

I don't know. We all have our "here's what Lucas should have done with the prequels" ideas (Hayden has written books on this, imo) but I'm not sure what Abrams could have done with this after what he was left. Han, Luke, and Carrie Fisher were all dead and so was the big bad guy from the first two movies. There really wasn't a movie to be made, plot wise. So yeah, "hey look at this! Look at that! Quick don't stop to think. Hey look it's the Emperor! He's back! How? Doesn't matter. Hey look it's Lando! Remember Lando? Isn't this fun?"

the movie sucked.  he might have some good excuses on why it sucked, but it is definitely on the minus side of his ledger.

[Dbeasy 15042]

Just finished this movie. It sucked. The actors don’t fit. They are boring.

[PRONG HORN 3141]

We knew it would suck.  

[WBT 20561]

11 hours ago, Red Five said:

I don't know. We all have our "here's what Lucas should have done with the prequels" ideas (Hayden has written books on this, imo) but I'm not sure what Abrams could have done with this after what he was left. Han, Luke, and Carrie Fisher were all dead and so was the big bad guy from the first two movies. There really wasn't a movie to be made, plot wise. So yeah, "hey look at this! Look at that! Quick don't stop to think. Hey look it's the Emperor! He's back! How? Doesn't matter. Hey look it's Lando! Remember Lando? Isn't this fun?"

The whole trilogy was destined to suck when the first movie abandoned any logical continuity from the end of rotj.  .  Let's see, who was responsible for ep vii?

[BrickHorn 18217]

There are only four Star Wars movies worth watching: the OT and Rogue One. Everything else is boring crap. And given the franchise’s track record since 1983 (1 good film in 8 attempts), it’s irrational to expect a new Star Wars movie to be anything other than shit.

[Fletch 5800]

41 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

There are only four Star Wars movies worth watching: the OT and Rogue One. Everything else is boring crap. And given the franchise’s track record since 1983 (1 good film in 8 attempts), it’s irrational to expect a new Star Wars movie to be anything other than shit.

Still don’t get the love for rogue one. It’s pretty fucking boring till what’s her face is all “we’re rebels! We rebel!” The space battle was awesome but at that point I didn’t really care. I would’ve left pretty fucking pissed if we didn’t get the Vader kicking ass scene 

[BrickHorn 18217]

1 minute ago, Fletch said:

Still don’t get the love for rogue one. It’s pretty fucking boring till what’s her face is all “we’re rebels! We rebel!” The space battle was awesome but at that point I didn’t really care. I would’ve left pretty fucking pissed if we didn’t get the Vader kicking ass scene 

“It sucked except for the awesome parts” can be said about any SW movie. The ending was the best part by far, and imo it was good enough to elevate the overall movie from decent to good. 

[Fletch 5800]

Just now, BrickHorn said:

“It sucked except for the awesome parts” can be said about any SW movie. The ending was the best part by far, and imo it was good enough to elevate the overall movie from decent to good. 

Rewatched the OT on VHS during the “quarantine”. Yeah, the action was still awesome but in general I just enjoyed Luke, Han and Leia shooting the shit and whatnot. In Rogue One, I hardly remember any of the names, any of the dialogue except the awkward ass rebel speech and then we get some Star Wars porn but yeah. Didn’t give a shit when the main characters were getting slaughtered and I didn’t care about what was supposed to be a romantic shot while the planet is about to be blown to shit. So yeah pretty much the Vader scene saved it. That was the only time in the movie where I was all fired up. Shit, I liked the Solo movie more than Rogue One but eh. Whatever. To each their own 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

Rogue One had a nice tone to it.  It didn't feel campy like everything else does.  I think it gets points for that.

[Levi 2585]

15 hours ago, Red Five said:

I don't know. We all have our "here's what Lucas should have done with the prequels" ideas (Hayden has written books on this, imo) but I'm not sure what Abrams could have done with this after what he was left. Han, Luke, and Carrie Fisher were all dead and so was the big bad guy from the first two movies. There really wasn't a movie to be made, plot wise. So yeah, "hey look at this! Look at that! Quick don't stop to think. Hey look it's the Emperor! He's back! How? Doesn't matter. Hey look it's Lando! Remember Lando? Isn't this fun?"

Still think he could have gone deeper with Kylo and the Knights of Ren. 

[Jersey Man10 3528]

TLJ fucked it all up

[Fletch 5800]

TLJ was like the Tim Beck of Star Wars. Didn’t exactly fuck it up, just added to the list of fuck ups 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

TFA was fine, but sort of in a JJ Abrams sort of way.  His movies have you walking out the door, nodding your head, saying, okay, that was something.  But then once the flash and noise and l e n s e f l a r e wear off, it seems hollow. 

In that same vein, we were all having nervous laughter about a new star wars after the prequels.  then we saw TFA and it was the original all over again.  that left us nodding and relieved it wasn't the abortion that the previous three were.  but now, after all that reassurance has worn off, the movie has to stand as just a movie.  and it is kinda lame.

[Nivek 16923]

I am here to kick the dead horse.  

[aggie08 21492]

13 hours ago, Fletch said:

Still don’t get the love for rogue one. It’s pretty fucking boring till what’s her face is all “we’re rebels! We rebel!” The space battle was awesome but at that point I didn’t really care. I would’ve left pretty fucking pissed if we didn’t get the Vader kicking ass scene 

This. It was fine, but I've never had the slightest desire to watch it again.

Also, I didn't find The Mandalorian to be anything special. Just a formulaic procedural...good guy trusts someone that he shouldn't, gets betrayed, has to fix busted ship at some point, "greatest warrior alive" gets his ass kicked and/or shot by human/alien/animal only to be saved by magical MacGuffin armor, rinse and repeat every episode. But "decent" for Star Wars in 2020 may as well be utterly brilliant. The universe is so ripe for interesting storytelling that I'm at least excited to see where it goes.

[aggie08 21492]

Did the theatrical release of Rise of Skywalker show the two transport ships in the desert, or did they add that into the Disney+ release, so Chewie surviving didn't seem quite so stupid?

[CooterBrown 18004]

Did the theatrical release of Rise of Skywalker show the two transport ships in the desert, or did they add that into the Disney+ release, so Chewie surviving didn't seem quite so stupid?

It was in the theatrical release.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

Yeah, I noticed it in the theaters.

[Knoxtnhorn 5971]

The previews and teasers for episode 8 made a big deal about Chrome Stormtrooper and the Knights of Ren.  Each ended up doing almost nothing.  I think that was a lost opportunity.

[PRONG HORN 3141]

7 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

the bits that are worthwhile consist of about 5 individual scenes/moments.

 

2. Pod race in TPM.

 

No

 

Where is the duel between Obi and Anakin on this list?  It's better than the Maul duel you have at number 1.

[Amos Moses 795]

Legit LOL at “space wizards with omnipotent powers on a lava planet.”

Also, I think the rediscovery of the Falcon on Jakku and subsequent escape ranks up there for memorable moments.

[utee94 15808]

3 minutes ago, Amos Moses said:

Legit LOL at “space wizards with omnipotent powers on a lava planet.”

Also, I think the rediscovery of the Falcon on Jakku and subsequent escape ranks up there for memorable moments.

Yeah, flying the Falcon through the husk of a downed Star Destroyer was pretty awesome.  

[HookEm 2463]

I don't remember much of the last two movies, so forgive me if I get some things wrong, but here is how I would have ended it. 

Obviously, we need a big bad.  That big bad has to be either Kylo or Rey.  Everybody half-expected Rey to flip, so that is too predictable.  Plus it would require Kylo flipping the other way for balance.  So it has to be Kylo.

So if Kylo is indeed the big bad, you have to lean into it and make him even more evil.  And make him bad ass while you are at it.  One of the great things about the original trilogy is that Luke went from being whiny kid to bad ass.  Repeat that here.  Kylo goes from being a kinda powerful whiny kid to being a very powerful and very cunning.  But you don't need him to be any more powerful with the force (by inventing any stupid new tricks), you need him to be more mentally powerful.  Give him some credibility that he can actually win and rule.

That starts with him killing Leah.  Build some depth with him struggling over the decision or whatever, and then have him kill her anyway.  Either way, she has to go in the first 5 minutes of the movie. She is terrible and actually dead in real life. Too distracting otherwise. 

To really save the series though you need a shocking ending.  And the best ending would be for the bad guys to win.  Let Kylo try to turn Rey.  How to do that?  Take a page from the OT.  Capture all her friends, but this time actually start killing them one by one.  Darken this mofo up.  After they are all dead, she has an almost turn similar to Luke.  But in the end he kills her in a way that can leave no doubts and ascends to universal dominance.

Maybe a final scene with Kylo looking into space like Luke and Leah did at the end of Episode V.  Or Al Pacino in Godfather 2.  Wondering if it was worth it.  If the Michael Jordan documentary has taught us anything it is that we love someone with singular focus even if they are an a-hole.  Make Kylo that a-hole.