Russia and American elections, now featuring radical republicans as co-stars

[Biff Tannen 45712]

1 hour ago, Chad Fuck said:

Shocked.  This is my shocked face:  : I

There was a Frontline several years ago that, like dictators and emperors of old, he's pretty sure he's not getting out of this alive.  There's nowhere he can go and be welcome to sit on a beach and have a mojito, think about all his kleptocratic piles of money while getting blown by the latest ingenue from the Bolshoi.  In order to keep it, he has to keep on keeping on as Russia Mafia Boss #1.  So the variations on how he does this will be interesting to watch over time, but he's still going to do it.  There is no relief for Russia until he dies.  Probably not then.   It's not like they have a history of liberal democracy.

Sounds familiar.  A certain cheeto in chief is in the same predicament.  Wonder how he'll handle it?  Surely this next election will go smoothly.

[Chad Fuck 17743]

35 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Sounds familiar.  A certain cheeto in chief is in the same predicament.  Wonder how he'll handle it?  Surely this next election will go smoothly.

The difference between Cheeto and Putin is Putin will kill anyone who keeps him from maintaining power.  Luckily, we have some measures that would prevent Trump from doing that.  Lord knows he would've done it to a dozen people already if he could've got away with it.

 

[Biff Tannen 45712]

23 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

The difference between Cheeto and Putin is Putin will kill anyone who keeps him from maintaining power.  Luckily, we have some measures that would prevent Trump from doing that.  Lord knows he would've done it to a dozen people already if he could've got away with it.

 

Yeah, I have no beliefs that he has the spine to actually kill anyone, but he has other tools at his disposal.

[Bama Chick 28596]

So I’m watching a documentary on HBO called “Welcome to Chechnya”.

It’s about the persecution of LGBTQ people in Chechnya and the failure of Putin and the Russian government to stop Ramzan Kadyrov (batshit President of the Chechen Republic) and his secret police from kidnapping, imprisoning, torturing, and murdering LGBTQ citizens.

It focuses on a secret group of activists who run an underground railroad to evacuate queer citizens from Chechnya and Russia.

It’s harrowing and maddening.

Here’s an interview with Kadyrov.

He’s fucking insane.

[Parliament 14286]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/16/politics/russia-cyberattack-covid-vaccine-research/index.html

[bolverk 29708]

 

[washparkhorn 9939]

I know this flies against the zeitgeist, but we are doing this to ourselves. We pretend Russia is something other than the two-bit kleptocracy that it is. We have far bigger problems than Russia. Trump (and the never-trumper repubs who used to be called neocons) love that narrative, but it diverts attention away from the critical issues bearing down on the nation. Good to keep the Russian mafia at bay, but they are the sideshow in this circus.

In my humble opinion and with no offense intended to anyone invested in the Russian narrative. The Russians need to be watched, so please carry on. The Russians want a US civil war. We should do the opposite of what Putin wants. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Putin is a better student of history than our President (who apparently loves him some Third Reich). Fighting a war on two fronts is tricky enough, but Trump one-ups that and goes for China too so that 3 4D chess thing has become Scrabble.

[Brisketexan 105275]

And likewise, we pretend that we’re better than a two bit kleptocracy.

We’re not. We are rapidly becoming evenly matched.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The only thing we’re missing is an unexplainable people falling out of windows problem. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

31 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The only thing we’re missing is an unexplainable people falling out of windows problem. 

[Anastasis 23481]

1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

I know this flies against the zeitgeist, but we are doing this to ourselves. We pretend Russia is something other than the two-bit kleptocracy that it is. We have far bigger problems than Russia. Trump (and the never-trumper repubs who used to be called neocons) love that narrative, but it diverts attention away from the critical issues bearing down on the nation. Good to keep the Russian mafia at bay, but they are the sideshow in this circus.

In my humble opinion and with no offense intended to anyone invested in the Russian narrative. The Russians need to be watched, so please carry on. The Russians want a US civil war. We should do the opposite of what Putin wants. 

It’s always been about look within. External locus or control seems to be all the rage these days though. 

[bolverk 29708]

Considered putting the two following stories in the respective Brexit and the Sleepy Joe/Dopey Don threads, but seeing them back to back demonstrates the issue better, I think.

In this one, I find the remark about the Scotland referendum to be pretty interesting, because I don't think that's ever been mentioned in relation to Russian election interference. It was a simpler time in 2014; back then, I found it hilarious that Scotland came close to voting for independence from the UK for the simple reason that I'm not the biggest fan of the role England has played throughout history. In hindsight, that was a really foolish take on things.

It's kind of the same as thinking it'd be kind of neat for Catalonia to secede from Spain -- not from animosity -- but from a "wouldn't that be neat?" kind of angle. I wouldn't be surprised if we found out Putin monetarily supported that movement too.

Anywhoo:

 

‘No One’ Protected British Democracy From Russia, U.K. Report Concludes
Russia weaponized information to interfere in the British political system and was widely ignored by successive governments, according to a long-awaited report by Parliament.

LONDON — Russia has weaponized information as part of a broad and long-running effort to interfere in the British political system and sow discord, and those efforts were widely ignored by successive British governments, according to a long-awaited report released on Tuesday by the British Parliament.

While the report examined Russia’s possible role in fomenting conflict surrounding some of the United Kingdom’s most divisive political battles in recent years — including the 2016 Brexit referendum that rejected membership of European Union and a 2014 referendum in which Scotland voted to remain part of the United Kingdom — it did not draw conclusions on the success of those efforts.

Instead, the authors of the report told British lawmakers that they could not speak to the effectiveness of the Russian influence campaign because the government had failed to even be alert to the threat despite years of mounting evidence.

It raised a fundamental question: Who is protecting the country’s democratic system?

“No one is,” was the answer given by the authors.

Spoiler

 

“The government here has let us down,” Kevan Jones, a member of Parliament who served on the intelligence committee that released the report, said at a news conference.

“The outrage isn’t if there is interference, the outrage is no one wanted to know if there was interference,” Mr. Jones said. “What we do know about Russian interference in the U.K. is it is the new normal.”

The release of the Russia report comes almost one and a half years after the conclusion of the inquiry by the British Parliament’s intelligence and security committee, the body that oversees the country’s spy agencies.

Despite the long wait, it comes at a moment of high interest in the extent of Russian interference in western politics, ahead of the U.S. presidential elections in November.

The report, based on secret intelligence as well as evidence from independent experts, aims to summarize the threat Russia poses to Britain and the effectiveness of countermeasures.

Concerns about Russian meddling and aggression stretch back more than a decade to the death in November 2006 of Alexander V. Litvinenko.

A former K.G.B. officer and critic of the Kremlin, Mr. Litvinenko had won asylum in Britain. He was killed in central London by the radioactive poison polonium-210, believed to have been administered by a cup of tea. A subsequent British inquiry concluded that his killing “was probably approved” by President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and the head of the country’s intelligence service.

In 2018, Sergei Skripal, another former Russian spy, and his 33-year-old daughter, Yulia, were found seriously ill on a bench in Salisbury, England, after a poisoning attack that left them hospitalized for weeks. Britain accused two Russians of using a rare nerve agent to try to kill Mr. Skripal.

Although the intelligence and security committee report was seen and approved by Downing Street in 2019, its release was held up before a general election in December that brought Britain’s prime minister, Boris Johnson, a large majority in Parliament.

Critics of Mr. Johnson say he has been compromised by donations to his Conservative Party from wealthy Russian donors living in Britain and argue that the report was delayed unnecessarily.

The report itself raised questions about the influence Russia wields in the country’s corridors of power.

“It is notable that a number of members of the House of Lords have business interests linked to Russia, or work directly for major Russian companies linked to the Russian state,” according to the report. “These relationships should be carefully scrutinized, given the potential for the Russian state to exploit them.”

Last week, Dominic Raab, the foreign secretary, said that Russian “actors” almost certainly sought to interfere in the 2019 general election through the online “amplification” of stolen documents relating to trade talks between Britain and the U.S.

After the election, there was a second delay in the publication of the Russia report until Downing Street agreed on the membership of a new intelligence and security committee.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by bolverk
link

[bolverk 29708]

The second companion piece:

Democrats Warn of Possible Foreign Disinformation Plot Targeting Congress

Democrats demanded an F.B.I. briefing. They were concerned about a potential Russian-linked effort to interfere in the election by using a Senate panel to advance smears against Joe Biden, officials said.

Top congressional Democrats warned in a cryptic letter they released on Monday that a foreign power was using disinformation to try to interfere in the presidential election and the activities of Congress, and demanded a prompt briefing by the F.B.I. to warn every member of Congress.

While the letter writers, led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, did not specify the threat, officials familiar with a classified addendum attached to it said the Democrats’ concerns touched on intelligence related to a possible Russian-backed attempt to smear the presidential campaign of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.

They contend that the Russian-linked information is being funneled to a committee headed by Senator Ron Johnson, the Wisconsin Republican who is investigating Mr. Biden and his son, who was once paid as a board member of a Ukrainian energy company. While neither Mr. Johnson’s inquiry nor much of the information in question is new, the Democrats’ letter is an attempt to call attention to their concern that the accusations are not only unfounded but may further Russia’s efforts to interfere again in the American presidential election.

Spoiler

 

The warning had echoes of the 2016 campaign. In August of that year, after receiving briefings from the head of the C.I.A. at the time, John O. Brennan, the Senate minority leader at the time, Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada, publicly warned of a Russian effort to undermine the 2016 elections. Those efforts accelerated as Election Day approached, and this year Ms. Pelosi and other Democrats, including Representative Adam B. Schiff of California, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, have vowed to highlight any similar efforts.

In the letter, addressed to Christopher A. Wray, the F.B.I. director, on July 13, the Democrats wrote that they were “gravely concerned, in particular, that Congress appears to be the target of a concerted foreign interference campaign, which seeks to launder and amplify disinformation in order to influence congressional activity, public debate and the presidential election in November.”

Ms. Pelosi was joined by Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the party’s leader in the Senate, as well as Mr. Schiff and Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Democrats did not ask Republicans to sign on, according to a congressional official familiar with the letter who insisted on anonymity to discuss it.

Patrick Boland, a spokesman for Mr. Schiff’s committee, declined to comment on the content of the intelligence that led to the letter.

Mr. Biden issued a statement on Monday, apparently independently of the congressional Democrats’ request to the F.B.I., that echoed many of the same themes. “I am putting the Kremlin and other foreign governments on notice,” he said, in his most extensive comments on evidence of renewed Russian activity. “If elected president, I will treat foreign interference in our election as an adversarial act that significantly affects the relationship between the United States and the interfering nation’s government.”

He said he would “direct the U.S. intelligence community to report publicly and in a timely manner on any efforts by foreign governments that have interfered, or attempted to interfere, with U.S. elections,” accusing President Trump of ignoring such evidence.

Behind the congressional Democrats’ warning are the efforts of a Ukrainian lawmaker, Andriy Derkach, who was educated in a K.G.B.-backed school and was, until recently, closely aligned with a pro-Russian political faction in Ukraine. In May he released tapes of what he said were fragments of telephone conversations between Mr. Biden, then the vice president, and Ukraine’s president at the time, Petro O. Poroshenko.

The purported tapes did little to change the understanding of the elder Mr. Biden’s engagement with Ukraine’s leadership. Mr. Biden had publicly insisted that aid to Kyiv could be tied to the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor, whom the United States and European nations had accused of corruption. So far, the accusations emanating from Mr. Derkach and others about Mr. Biden and his son, Hunter, have either been debunked or not been substantiated by any independent sources.

But the accusations, fueled by release of the tapes, led to more online conspiracy theories, which American intelligence officials have warned may well have their origins in Russia. Mr. Johnson has at various moments said he would subpoena evidence surrounding the dealings with Ukraine in the last years of the Obama administration, and The Washington Post reported this month that there was an effort among Ukrainian officials to pass the tapes to Mr. Johnson’s committee.

Mr. Trump has cheered his work. Pressure Mr. Trump put on Ukraine’s leaders last year to investigate some of the same issues ultimately led to his impeachment, and in addition to raising questions about Mr. Biden and his son, Mr. Johnson’s investigation has lent some senatorial legitimacy to Mr. Trump’s claims about the matter.

The investigation focuses on Hunter Biden’s work for a Ukrainian energy firm, Burisma Holdings, and whether his presence and lucrative paycheck were meant to improperly curry favor with the Obama administration. Politico first reported that the Democrats’ concerns were connected to Mr. Johnson’s work.

A spokesman for Mr. Johnson, Austin Altenburg, said the chairman and his staff had already requested briefings from F.B.I. officials, and he accused Democrats of hypocrisy for ignoring recently declassified documents that suggested the F.B.I. may have relied on potentially tainted information in its investigation of ties between Mr. Trump’s campaign and Russia.

The letter from the Democrats asked for the F.B.I. to share what it knows with all lawmakers, “given the seriousness and specificity of these threats.” The Democrats requested a briefing on the matter by the end of the month, when lawmakers are scheduled to leave Washington for several weeks.

Mr. Wray has previously warned that Russia would attempt to interfere in the 2020 election, probably changing the playbook it deployed four years ago.

The letter implied that the lawmakers — who are regularly privy to sensitive intelligence — had seen reporting and analysis by American intelligence agencies that prompted concern, but not necessarily that the information was new. They sent copies to Gina Haspel, the C.I.A. director, and Gen. Paul M. Nakasone, the director of the National Security Agency and U.S. Cyber Command.

Despite Mr. Trump’s unease discussing Russian efforts to influence elections — and his refusal to say he would stop any foreign assistance to his own campaign — top national security officials working for him at the Department of Homeland Security and intelligence agencies have insisted that securing the vote in November is a top concern.

General Nakasone described in a speech on Monday “our No. 1 goal, our No. 1 objective at the National Security Agency and U.S. Cyber Command: a safe, secure and legitimate 2020 elections.”

“We are going to know our adversaries better than they know themselves,” he said.

 

Spoiler

 

He made no specific reference to current investigations of Russia, though he had directed an effort to neutralize Russia’s Internet Research Agency and some Russian intelligence operatives during the 2018 midterms. Mr. Trump recently took credit for that effort.

An F.B.I. spokeswoman acknowledged that the bureau had received the letter, but declined to comment further.

Mr. Wray is in a precarious position. Although appointed by Mr. Trump, he is considered suspect by the president. And while Mr. Trump has complained that the Russia and Ukraine investigations that led to Mr. Trump’s impeachment — which also focused on his efforts to obtain incriminating information about Mr. Biden and his son — was a “hoax,” the Russian nexus with Ukrainian officials remains the subject of federal investigators.

Now Republicans have come back with their own investigations, focused on Hunter Biden and Burisma. In the course of its investigation, the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee has relied extensively on a former Ukrainian official, Andrii Telizhenko. Mr. Telizhenko has insisted that he is not trying to interfere in the presidential election, and that he would turn the information he received over to unspecified American officials.

In March, however, F.B.I. officials warned lawmakers in a briefing that it had concerns that Mr. Telizhenko was a conduit for Russian disinformation about the Bidens and claims that Ukraine conspired to help Democrats in the 2016 election. After the briefing, lawmakers in both parties pressured Mr. Johnson to abandon a vote to subpoena Mr. Telizhenko, and he turned his attention to other possible sources of information.

Senate Democrats on the committee, who view its work as an attempt to simply smear Mr. Biden ahead of election, wrote to Mr. Johnson again last week demanding that he schedule a briefing with the F.B.I.’s foreign influence task force and other intelligence agencies about his work.

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by bolverk
screwed up the spoiler and can't fix

[Anastasis 23481]

Posted without any sense of irony...

 

[Parliament 14286]

As a fan of post apocalyptic stories, I wanna see what happens.

 Russia boasts that it’s about to become the first country to approve a COVID-19 vaccine, with mass vaccinations planned as early as October using shots that are yet to complete clinical trials — and scientists worldwide are sounding the alarm that the headlong rush could backfire.

Moscow sees a Sputnik-like propaganda victory, recalling the Soviet Union’s launch of the world’s first satellite in 1957. But the experimental COVID-19 shots began first-in-human testing on a few dozen people less than two months ago, and there’s no published scientific evidence yet backing Russia’s late entry to the global vaccine race, much less explaining why it should be considered a front-runner.

“I’m worried that Russia is cutting corners so that the vaccine that will come out may be not just ineffective, but also unsafe,” said Lawrence Gostin, a global public health law expert at Georgetown University. “It doesn’t work that way. ... Trials come first. That’s really important.”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/russian-boast-of-plan-for-mass-covid-19-vaccination-as-soon-as-october-alarms-who-and-scientists-worldwide-2020-08-07

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

On 7/21/2020 at 10:08 AM, bolverk said:

The second companion piece:

Democrats Warn of Possible Foreign Disinformation Plot Targeting Congress

Democrats demanded an F.B.I. briefing. They were concerned about a potential Russian-linked effort to interfere in the election by using a Senate panel to advance smears against Joe Biden, officials said.

Top congressional Democrats warned in a cryptic letter they released on Monday that a foreign power was using disinformation to try to interfere in the presidential election and the activities of Congress, and demanded a prompt briefing by the F.B.I. to warn every member of Congress.

While the letter writers, led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, did not specify the threat, officials familiar with a classified addendum attached to it said the Democrats’ concerns touched on intelligence related to a possible Russian-backed attempt to smear the presidential campaign of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.

They contend that the Russian-linked information is being funneled to a committee headed by Senator Ron Johnson, the Wisconsin Republican who is investigating Mr. Biden and his son, who was once paid as a board member of a Ukrainian energy company. While neither Mr. Johnson’s inquiry nor much of the information in question is new, the Democrats’ letter is an attempt to call attention to their concern that the accusations are not only unfounded but may further Russia’s efforts to interfere again in the American presidential election.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The warning had echoes of the 2016 campaign. In August of that year, after receiving briefings from the head of the C.I.A. at the time, John O. Brennan, the Senate minority leader at the time, Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada, publicly warned of a Russian effort to undermine the 2016 elections. Those efforts accelerated as Election Day approached, and this year Ms. Pelosi and other Democrats, including Representative Adam B. Schiff of California, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, have vowed to highlight any similar efforts.

In the letter, addressed to Christopher A. Wray, the F.B.I. director, on July 13, the Democrats wrote that they were “gravely concerned, in particular, that Congress appears to be the target of a concerted foreign interference campaign, which seeks to launder and amplify disinformation in order to influence congressional activity, public debate and the presidential election in November.”

Ms. Pelosi was joined by Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the party’s leader in the Senate, as well as Mr. Schiff and Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Democrats did not ask Republicans to sign on, according to a congressional official familiar with the letter who insisted on anonymity to discuss it.

Patrick Boland, a spokesman for Mr. Schiff’s committee, declined to comment on the content of the intelligence that led to the letter.

Mr. Biden issued a statement on Monday, apparently independently of the congressional Democrats’ request to the F.B.I., that echoed many of the same themes. “I am putting the Kremlin and other foreign governments on notice,” he said, in his most extensive comments on evidence of renewed Russian activity. “If elected president, I will treat foreign interference in our election as an adversarial act that significantly affects the relationship between the United States and the interfering nation’s government.”

He said he would “direct the U.S. intelligence community to report publicly and in a timely manner on any efforts by foreign governments that have interfered, or attempted to interfere, with U.S. elections,” accusing President Trump of ignoring such evidence.

Behind the congressional Democrats’ warning are the efforts of a Ukrainian lawmaker, Andriy Derkach, who was educated in a K.G.B.-backed school and was, until recently, closely aligned with a pro-Russian political faction in Ukraine. In May he released tapes of what he said were fragments of telephone conversations between Mr. Biden, then the vice president, and Ukraine’s president at the time, Petro O. Poroshenko.

The purported tapes did little to change the understanding of the elder Mr. Biden’s engagement with Ukraine’s leadership. Mr. Biden had publicly insisted that aid to Kyiv could be tied to the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor, whom the United States and European nations had accused of corruption. So far, the accusations emanating from Mr. Derkach and others about Mr. Biden and his son, Hunter, have either been debunked or not been substantiated by any independent sources.

But the accusations, fueled by release of the tapes, led to more online conspiracy theories, which American intelligence officials have warned may well have their origins in Russia. Mr. Johnson has at various moments said he would subpoena evidence surrounding the dealings with Ukraine in the last years of the Obama administration, and The Washington Post reported this month that there was an effort among Ukrainian officials to pass the tapes to Mr. Johnson’s committee.

Mr. Trump has cheered his work. Pressure Mr. Trump put on Ukraine’s leaders last year to investigate some of the same issues ultimately led to his impeachment, and in addition to raising questions about Mr. Biden and his son, Mr. Johnson’s investigation has lent some senatorial legitimacy to Mr. Trump’s claims about the matter.

The investigation focuses on Hunter Biden’s work for a Ukrainian energy firm, Burisma Holdings, and whether his presence and lucrative paycheck were meant to improperly curry favor with the Obama administration. Politico first reported that the Democrats’ concerns were connected to Mr. Johnson’s work.

A spokesman for Mr. Johnson, Austin Altenburg, said the chairman and his staff had already requested briefings from F.B.I. officials, and he accused Democrats of hypocrisy for ignoring recently declassified documents that suggested the F.B.I. may have relied on potentially tainted information in its investigation of ties between Mr. Trump’s campaign and Russia.

The letter from the Democrats asked for the F.B.I. to share what it knows with all lawmakers, “given the seriousness and specificity of these threats.” The Democrats requested a briefing on the matter by the end of the month, when lawmakers are scheduled to leave Washington for several weeks.

Mr. Wray has previously warned that Russia would attempt to interfere in the 2020 election, probably changing the playbook it deployed four years ago.

The letter implied that the lawmakers — who are regularly privy to sensitive intelligence — had seen reporting and analysis by American intelligence agencies that prompted concern, but not necessarily that the information was new. They sent copies to Gina Haspel, the C.I.A. director, and Gen. Paul M. Nakasone, the director of the National Security Agency and U.S. Cyber Command.

Despite Mr. Trump’s unease discussing Russian efforts to influence elections — and his refusal to say he would stop any foreign assistance to his own campaign — top national security officials working for him at the Department of Homeland Security and intelligence agencies have insisted that securing the vote in November is a top concern.

General Nakasone described in a speech on Monday “our No. 1 goal, our No. 1 objective at the National Security Agency and U.S. Cyber Command: a safe, secure and legitimate 2020 elections.”

“We are going to know our adversaries better than they know themselves,” he said.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

He made no specific reference to current investigations of Russia, though he had directed an effort to neutralize Russia’s Internet Research Agency and some Russian intelligence operatives during the 2018 midterms. Mr. Trump recently took credit for that effort.

An F.B.I. spokeswoman acknowledged that the bureau had received the letter, but declined to comment further.

Mr. Wray is in a precarious position. Although appointed by Mr. Trump, he is considered suspect by the president. And while Mr. Trump has complained that the Russia and Ukraine investigations that led to Mr. Trump’s impeachment — which also focused on his efforts to obtain incriminating information about Mr. Biden and his son — was a “hoax,” the Russian nexus with Ukrainian officials remains the subject of federal investigators.

Now Republicans have come back with their own investigations, focused on Hunter Biden and Burisma. In the course of its investigation, the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee has relied extensively on a former Ukrainian official, Andrii Telizhenko. Mr. Telizhenko has insisted that he is not trying to interfere in the presidential election, and that he would turn the information he received over to unspecified American officials.

In March, however, F.B.I. officials warned lawmakers in a briefing that it had concerns that Mr. Telizhenko was a conduit for Russian disinformation about the Bidens and claims that Ukraine conspired to help Democrats in the 2016 election. After the briefing, lawmakers in both parties pressured Mr. Johnson to abandon a vote to subpoena Mr. Telizhenko, and he turned his attention to other possible sources of information.

Senate Democrats on the committee, who view its work as an attempt to simply smear Mr. Biden ahead of election, wrote to Mr. Johnson again last week demanding that he schedule a briefing with the F.B.I.’s foreign influence task force and other intelligence agencies about his work.

 

Joe doesn't need anyone smearing him. All he needs to do is try to answer a question more complex than 2+2.

[JimmyJames 12271]

9 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Joe doesn't need anyone smearing him. All he needs to do is try to answer a question more complex than 2+2.

Person woman man camera tv.

Person woman man camera tv.

person woman man camera tv.

There are no more palm trees in Florida. They all reside in Indiana. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

16 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Person woman man camera tv.

Person woman man camera tv.

person woman man camera tv.

There are no more palm trees in Florida. They all reside in Indiana. 

The most coherent post you've ever had.

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The most coherent post you've ever had.

Its fitting that you say that since I’m quoting the moron you worship.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Its fitting that you say that since I’m quoting the moron you worship.

You're quoting Roger Staubach ?

[JimmyJames 12271]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

You're quoting Roger Staubach ?

Roger would never say something that dumb and you know that.

Obviously I’m talking about your hero our dufus in Chief, who some people call the president. You are still proud of him, aren’t You?

[Nivek 16979]

Shit I thought this thread was going to be about interference.  NPR had a report that stated Russia, China, and Iran are working on interfering with our elections again with different motives.  Chinese want Trump out.  Russia loves Trump.  Iran just wants to undermine the process.    

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

12 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Roger would never say something that dumb and you know that.

Obviously I’m talking about your hero our dufus in Chief, who some people call the president. You are still proud of him, aren’t You?

Never was, he's never been my guy other than beating that bitch Hillary, the most corrupt democrat since Huey Long, and the queen mother of the modern democrat party.  You've got her poster on your ceiling.

 

EDIT:  Ohhh it hurts so bad when people drag up the recent past, and put Hillary, your dethroned queen in your faces....  ahhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...... HA !

 

Oh look...... Tom chimed in with his usual illiteracy.   Yer wife gonna wear her Hillary mask tonight ?  I told her I don't go in for that sort of weird shit.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Never was, he's never been my guy other than beating that bitch Hillary, the most corrupt democrat since Huey Long, and the queen mother of the modern democrat party.  You've got her poster on your ceiling.

 Bullshit. You jack off to trump interviews and Stephen Miller dolls. I’ve got the tapes to prove it. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

 Bullshit. You jack off to trump interviews and Stephen Miller dolls. I’ve got the tapes to prove it. 

Doubtful, but hey you need something to fapp to besides the Hillary poster.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

35 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Never was, he's never been my guy other than beating that bitch Hillary, the most corrupt democrat since Huey Long, and the queen mother of the modern democrat party.  You've got her poster on your ceiling.

You've claimed *all caps* "NOBODY" is more corrupt than Hillary. Now, according to you, she's not even the most corrupt Democrat. Walk us through that, and how she gets the silver over Bill other than at some point in your life a woman really hurt you.

[JimmyJames 12271]

11 hours ago, Parliament said:

As a fan of post apocalyptic stories, I wanna see what happens.

 Russia boasts that it’s about to become the first country to approve a COVID-19 vaccine, with mass vaccinations planned as early as October using shots that are yet to complete clinical trials — and scientists worldwide are sounding the alarm that the headlong rush could backfire.

Moscow sees a Sputnik-like propaganda victory, recalling the Soviet Union’s launch of the world’s first satellite in 1957. But the experimental COVID-19 shots began first-in-human testing on a few dozen people less than two months ago, and there’s no published scientific evidence yet backing Russia’s late entry to the global vaccine race, much less explaining why it should be considered a front-runner.

“I’m worried that Russia is cutting corners so that the vaccine that will come out may be not just ineffective, but also unsafe,” said Lawrence Gostin, a global public health law expert at Georgetown University. “It doesn’t work that way. ... Trials come first. That’s really important.”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/russian-boast-of-plan-for-mass-covid-19-vaccination-as-soon-as-october-alarms-who-and-scientists-worldwide-2020-08-07

In my lay opinion, a rushed vaccine won’t work and will cause more problems than it solves.

[Anastasis 23481]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

In my lay opinion, a rushed vaccine won’t work and will cause more problems than it solves.

Tell us more. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

27 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Tell us more. 

Sure. If it’s rushed it will not works for all and will actually get some people sick instead. As a result the populace will not trust any subsequent vaccine that actually does work.

Since you’re the board scientist maybe you could expand. 

[Biff Tannen 45712]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Never was, he's never been my guy other than beating that bitch Hillary, the most corrupt democrat since Huey Long, and the queen mother of the modern democrat party.  You've got her poster on your ceiling.

 

EDIT:  Ohhh it hurts so bad when people drag up the recent past, and put Hillary, your dethroned queen in your faces....  ahhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...... HA !

I thought he was a good player and his son was a first round draft pick, if memory serves. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

EDIT:  Ohhh it hurts so bad

It's like you forgot your catchphrase.

[Anastasis 23481]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Sure. If it’s rushed it will not works for all and will actually get some people sick instead. As a result the populace will not trust any subsequent vaccine that actually does work.

Since you’re the board scientist maybe you could expand. 

Nah. I’m good.  No crayons will be harmed in the course of this post. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Anastasis

[Bullneck 19201]

14 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Joe doesn't need anyone smearing him. All he needs to do is try to answer a question more complex than 2+2.

Fuck you, moron. Go back to your board and spout your simpleton shit.

[JimmyJames 12271]

45 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Nah. I’m good.  No crayons will be harmed in the course of this post. 

Ok. Good to know I’m probably right then. Because if I wasn’t no doubt you would point that out. 

[Anastasis 23481]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Ok. Good to know I’m probably right then. Because if I wasn’t no doubt you would point that out. 

I'd be interested in your thoughts on the development schedules laid out by Oxford, MRNA, and PFE compared to the Russian announcements and contrasted with typical vax development schedules?  If you think that the Russian development is rushed and will result in unnecessary risk, what do you think about the approaches being used in the west?

 

[washparkhorn 9939]

7 hours ago, Nivek said:

Shit I thought this thread was going to be about interference.  NPR had a report that stated Russia, China, and Iran are working on interfering with our elections again with different motives.  Chinese want Trump out.  Russia loves Trump.  Iran just wants to undermine the process.    

We are open season - since we sell political messaging access to everyone on the planet. 

Russia, China, and Iran don't like us. Along with most of the world community. EU would dethrone us the World's only real superpower - if they had capable armed forces. The Middle East is going its own way. We look at this mess and see political fighting over nonsense - as it always was. The world looks at this mess - and they are genuinely concerned and wondering why the Dollar is a safe haven given the state of . . . Americans. 

The political messaging outside the US sees us as a powder keg of idoits - and is looking for any adults in the room. They can't find them. For those who don't like us, that is an opportunity. And where there is opportunity, there is profit. 

It's a cutthroat world out there. Nations of all kinds and sorts think we need a "go to your room" timeout.

The technology is available to anyone. We have no special edge anymore -  other than world ending nuclear technology (and everyone is catching up quickly).  Internal fighting is not the answer as a national policy. 

We know what they all want. A civil war. Fuck that. That is something we control - not those from outside who want a civil war. We need more mingling in this nation.  If anyone is preaching civil war in messaging, understand whose goals they are advancing - wittingly or unwittingly.

This nation of paws is depending on you.

Edited August 9, 2020 by washparkhorn

[Ted Lange 16113]

Gary Johnson or the lady who just got bit by a bat can fix this!

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 hours ago, Bullneck said:

Fuck you, moron. Go back to your board and spout your simpleton shit.

Oh noes you're hurt... If your so dishonest you can't even admit what's plain to see, you're the simpleton, same old same old I guess.

 

EDIT:  say hey to the mrs. for me. 

 

Poor poor bulldick..... can't admit how his teams guy is losing his mental abilities on a daily basis. The man can't complete a thought anymore. You can deny it, and neg away, doesn't change the facts Sally.  Dishonesty is an ugly, and immature trait sport you should try and get past that school yard schtick.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Oh noes you're hurt... If your so dishonest you can't even admit what's plain to see, you're the simpleton, same old same old I guess.

 

EDIT:  say hey to the mrs. for me. 

 

Poor poor bulldick..... can't admit how his teams guy is losing his mental abilities on a daily basis. The man can't complete a thought anymore. You can deny it, and neg away, doesn't change the facts Sally.  Dishonesty is an ugly, and immature trait sport you should try and get past that school yard schtick.

Wait, Bullneck is a trump supporter now?

 

[bolverk 29708]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Oh noes you're hurt... If your so dishonest you can't even admit what's plain to see, you're the simpleton, same old same old I guess.

 

EDIT:  say hey to the mrs. for me. 

 

Poor poor bulldick..... can't admit how his teams guy is losing his mental abilities on a daily basis. The man can't complete a thought anymore. You can deny it, and neg away, doesn't change the facts Sally.  Dishonesty is an ugly, and immature trait sport you should try and get past that school yard schtick.

Why don't you get "on board" with discussing the topic of this thread and stop shitting all over it? Or would you prefer to not discuss how Putin has been assisting your guy since the outset? Your trolling is a transparent attempt at deflecting from that reality.

[JimmyJames 12271]

10 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I'd be interested in your thoughts on the development schedules laid out by Oxford, MRNA, and PFE compared to the Russian announcements and contrasted with typical vax development schedules?  If you think that the Russian development is rushed and will result in unnecessary risk, what do you think about the approaches being used in the west?

 

Although I’m sure you know more about it than me I’ll try to answer your question anyway. It’s my understanding that the Russians will begin producing a vaccine In October before normal level 3 trials have been conducted which is what the others you mention are going to do, which puts the later timetable in early next year. 

[Anastasis 23481]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Although I’m sure you know more about it than me I’ll try to answer your question anyway. It’s my understanding that the Russians will begin producing a vaccine In October before normal level 3 trials have been conducted which is what the others you mention are going to do, which puts the later timetable in early next year. 

According to the Russians, they started their phase III trial in August. AZ and MRNA phase III trials started late July I believe. They are ramping production capability in parallel to testing, just as we are doing. We're on virtually the same development timeline here, running similar plays.

My understanding is that the Russians have repurposed an adenovirus vector vaccine that they developed originally for Ebola. So they have a bit of experience with this particular technology. This is basically the same approach that Oxford is taking, and they likewise have experience with the technology. What the Russians are doing, as best as I can tell, will be a limited scope authorization initially to vaccinate high risk individuals who will continue to be under observation (healthcare workers and other high risk groups). Basically appears to me to be a trial, with some semantics around "conditional authorization" so that they can claim to be first in space. In parallel, they are ramping up production capability.  This is essentially the same thing that we are doing, ramping up production capacity in parallel to testing, except we are preparing for and will have much greater production capacity.  Basically looks to me like we are running slightly different wrinkles on the triple option, and the Russians are playing a game of semantics so that they can claim to be first and spike the football on the west. When it all shakes out, I bet we have far more people vaccinated at the end of the first half 2021, and far far more by the end of 2021.

Now, your concerns regarding the rush in development are appropriate, imo. I share them. I don't claim to be the "board scientist", but I have the same concerns with our approach and the pressure for widespread roll out. I might suggest even that our risk exposure might even be greater, given that we will have much greater roll out capacity in place and multiple agents close to approval.  That is likely moderated somewhat by our superior development processes and procedures and controls, but the concern is still there.

Whatever the Russian guy exactly said last week seems to have triggered a lot of western press articles with serious sounding concerns.  There have been some, but not the same volume, related to our approach, which is essentially the same. 

BTW, I apologize for the crayon quip. I was day drinking at a friends pool yesterday, and it was a knee jerk reaction to the quip about "board scientist". I should have started out by pointing out that your concerns should apply to some extent to our approach as well, rather than just saying "tell us more".  

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Anastasis

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

According to the Russians, they started their phase III trial in August. AZ and MRNA phase III trials started late July I believe. They are ramping production capability in parallel to testing, just as we are doing. We're on the same development timeline here, running similar plays.

My understanding is that the Russians have repurposed an adenovirus vector vaccine that they developed originally for Ebola. So they have a bit of experience with this particular technology. This is basically the same approach that Oxford is taking, and they likewise have experience with the technology. What the Russians are doing, as best as I can tell, will be a limited scope authorization initially to vaccinate high risk individuals who will continue to be under observation (healthcare workers and other high risk groups). Basically appears to me to be a trial, with some semantics around "conditional authorization" so that they can claim to be first in space. In parallel, they are ramping up production capability.  This is essentially the same thing that we are doing, ramping up production capacity in parallel to testing, except we are preparing for and will have much greater production capacity.  Basically looks to me like we are running slightly different wrinkles on the triple option, and the Russians are playing a game of semantics so that they can claim to be first and spike the football on the west. When it all shakes out, I bet we have far more people vaccinated at the end of the first half 2021, and far far more by the end of 2021.

Now, your concerns regarding the rush in development are appropriate, imo. I share them. I don't claim to be the "board scientist", but I have the same concerns with our approach and the pressure for widespread roll out. I might suggest even that our risk exposure might even be greater, given that we will have much greater roll out capacity in place and multiple agents close to approval.  That is likely moderated somewhat by our superior development processes and procedures and controls, but the concern is still there.

Whatever the Russian guy exactly said last week seems to have triggered a lot of western press articles with serious sounding concerns.  There have been some, but not the same volume, related to our approach, which is essentially the same. 

BTW, I apologize for the crayon quip. I was day drinking at a friends pool yesterday, and it was a knee jerk reaction to the quip about "board scientist". I should have started out by pointing out that your concerns should apply to some extent to our approach as well, rather than just saying "tell us more".  

 

 

 

No worries my man. Despite our disagreements, I do like hearing your thoughts on more scientific or technical matters like this one, and I’m not being sarcastic or snippy on that. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/europe/russia-navalny-hospitalized-intl-hnk/index.html

Quote

Moscow (CNN)Russian opposition leader and outspoken Kremlin critic Alexey Navalny was unconscious and on a ventilator in a Siberian hospital Thursday after falling ill from suspected poisoning, his spokeswoman said.

[Degenerate Gardner 4085]

3 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/europe/russia-navalny-hospitalized-intl-hnk/index.html

The suspected dose was in tea from the airport preceding his flight. Hard to imagine that a Russian opposition leader would be so careless as to drink something in an open cup from an airport vendor. I'm interested to hear more details.

[The Royal We 3072]

I kind of thought the same thing.  Seems like he would be carrying around Polonium test strips to dip in everything before imbibing. 

[Woland 749]

Putin is squelching any inspiration Russians might get from the Belorussians.

[yoladu 4094]

Is anyone looking after Biden's food and drink intake? Serious question.

I keep waiting for the first poisoning from our President.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]