Russia and American elections, now featuring radical republicans as co-stars

[Gourmand 7774]

6 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

This. 

I'd give my left nut to be able to vote for a Goldwater Republican, but they are extinct, replaced by bible-thumping, gun-waving idiots. 

Hey, I voted for two former Goldwater Republicans!

[Sawbonz 27534]

1 hour ago, Blotto said:

My guess is that Foxnews.com is light on substance, so he's now hitting up newsmax and OAN. Should be just a few more minutes. After he breaks down all the LNG Hurdles on the supply side enacted by Biden, perhaps he can also address the demand side.

[horn4life 3759]

IF I am Biden I am about to tell the Saudi's to go fuck themselves and fully align with Russia.  If the Saudi's don't pump more just suspend support of their military in any shape or form.  Point out that the Crown Prince had somebody chopped up and this President isn't worried about personal money and personal benefits.  In other words stop coddling the guys that were most responsible for funding 9/11.

Talking to fucking Republicans now simply means you have to spoon feed them facts.  Like the ... Gas prices are high because of the Keystone pipeline!!!!  Something that simply is not true.  That oil sucks and the real problem was Russia AND Saudi Arabia conspiring to crush the US shale market, which they did.  

I hope this fucking thing does not spin out of control.  But now I see no way for Russia to save face without a prolonged war.  

If I was the President of Ukraine my motto right now would be "Take two!"  If we can get enough brave souls to act and kill two Russian invaders, the price will be too steep very quickly.  We should start moving as much military hardware and technology into Ukraine as humanly possible.  I might push to see if Finland and Sweden want to join NATO. But mostly I am in the Saudi's grill letting them know that not helping here will mean us no longer supporting them with US military goods.

It's time to choose, with us or against us.

 

 

[gmr548 16576]

I can speak to this only anecdotally, but our oldest is going to stay out there after grad school most likely because that is where the high tech jobs are. The problem for her and her beau is that the real estate market is pretty whack. Lots of places being held as investment income which makes the market even worse. That would be what would tempt them to leave. They love the weather, the accessibility to parks, the museums, everything that young people enjoy is available to them.
I don't recall the source but it does jibe a little with what some of the inflow to Cali was showing that I read about--that those going there have more education and opportunities than many that are leaving. I'm sure there are various reasons either way, but people are complicated and then again sometimes it comes down to money.

Not to threadjack, but money is what most migration comes down to. California, NY, etc. are facing out migration because they’re more expensive. As you mentioned, they have in migration of high educated and higher earners because they’ll be able to afford it. Politics is typically a secondary factor or an added bonus, though when it comes to tax policy specifically they’re obviously linked.

[Goredho 17394]

So I guess the fall of the Berlin Wall, the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the US winning the Cold War was really just going into halftime with a lead?  Is that where we are basically at?

[fattyflattie 4639]

48 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

This.  I find it funny that we are all called leftists, yet most of us used to consider ourselves Republicans.

I do find it funny.  Especially when issues like those listed below are not new.  These issues didn’t magically appear with Trump  So you were cool with them then, or did you just time your jump perfectly.  I bet you did, y’all always do everything perfectly. I bet you got off the GOP wagon minutes before it completely went south. 

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

There’s a reason this country has shit education, healthcare, and income equality. It’s not because Republicans tried fixing it over and over again.

 

54 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

When some get so far out on the right, they look toward the other direction, and can't see the middle.  To them, it's all a big monolith wrapped in a socialism, immigrants cast as criminals, and big government tarp.

This never happens on the left. Ever.  Nothing but down the middle politics. 

[PsychMike 1541]

30 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Wood 'drastically underestimates the impact of social distinctions predicated upon wealth, especially inherited wealth.' You got that from Vickers, 'Work in Essex County,' page 98, right? Yeah, I read that too. Were you gonna plagiarize the whole thing for us? Do you have any thoughts of your own on this matter? Or do you...is that your thing? You come into a bar. You read some obscure passage and then pretend...you pawn it off as your own idea just to impress some girls and embarrass my friend? See the sad thing about a guy like you is in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're gonna come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life. One: don't do that. And two: You dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a f----n' education you coulda' got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library.

[David Dennison 18847]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I do find it funny.  Especially when issues like those listed below are not new.  These issues didn’t magically appear with Trump  So you were cool with them then, or did you just time your jump perfectly.  I bet you did, y’all always do everything perfectly. I bet you got off the GOP wagon minutes before it completely went south. 

 

This never happens on the left. Ever.  Nothing but down the middle politics. 

You know what doesn't happen on the left? Appeals to the most virulent strains of bigotry this country has to offer.

[Captainant 27627]

5 minutes ago, Goredho said:

So I guess the fall of the Berlin Wall, the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the US winning the Cold War was really just going into halftime with a lead?  Is that where we are basically at?

Oh no I'm having flashbacks to the last five years of Texas football

[fattyflattie 4639]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You know what doesn't happen on the left? Appeals to the most virulent strains of bigotry this country has to offer.

Lol.  The left is not short on bigotry, friend.

[Horn Dog 9816]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Any increase in price or interruption in utilities is absolutely unacceptable by the German people

Maybe the German people should demand to speak to the manager about this whole unacceptable situation where they have to pay what it costs for a service.

[Captainant 27627]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

Lol.  The left is not short on bigotry, friend.

It certainly exists in both sides, however the facts are that it's a selling point for republicans right now. You're conflating the mere existence with the magnitude of it in actuality.

But then again you aren't here to post in good faith so this is all just masturbatory shitposting 

[fattyflattie 4639]

Just now, Captainant said:

It certainly exists in both sides, however the facts are that it's a selling point for republicans right now. You're conflating the mere existence with the magnitude of it in actuality.

But then again you aren't here to post in good faith so this is all just masturbatory shitposting 

When do I not post in good faith?  I can easily post how I used to be a Democrat over and over, if that would change your mind about how in tuned I am to politics. 

And yeah, much better to be making promises to your constituents of color only to fuck them over decade after decade.  But this time we're super cereal guys, just make sure you keep us in office. 

[Brisketexan 105059]

21 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

This never happens on the left. Ever.  Nothing but down the middle politics. 

Actually, we're watching, in real-time, an entire political party drum out anything that is NOT the extreme "the big lie and a violent insurrection was totally cool" element.  See libtards like....George Will...being drummed out of the conservative movement.  Shit, see even a POS like Ted Cruz accidentally speak the truth and call Jan 6 an insurrection, and then have to spend the next month groveling for breaking with the insane fundamentalist orthodoxy.  

There is no room in the modern conservative movement for rational thought.  How do we know?  They have fucking told us so, repeatedly.  

Jesus fuck, how you can "both sides" that shit is amazing.  But I guess I shouldn't be amazed anymore.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Brisketexan

[Captainant 27627]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

When do I not post in good faith?  I can easily post how I used to be a Democrat over and over, if that would change your mind about how in tuned I am to politics. 

And yeah, much better to be making promises to your constituents of color only to fuck them over decade after decade.  But this time we're super cereal guys, just make sure you keep us in office. 

Lol you sound like my father in law that says "my daddy was a democrat, back when they were good!" without realizing he's saying his dad was a Dixiecrat that didn't agree with the civil rights act. You wouldn't happen to fall into the same category would you?

Look fatty, I'm not a democrat. I hate their politics, their weakness, and inability to actually do anything they say they want to. Their leadership is bought and paid for by corporate interests. 

But they're still light-years better than the republican party. The democrats arent actively aiming to roll back civil and voting rights. They aren't looking to institutionalize gay people as second class citizens, or selectively edit history.

[Sawbonz 27534]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

When do I not post in good faith?  I can easily post how I used to be a Democrat over and over, if that would change your mind about how in tuned I am to politics. 

And yeah, much better to be making promises to your constituents of color only to fuck them over decade after decade.  But this time we're super cereal guys, just make sure you keep us in office. 

I think you post in good faith. I think you are in denial about where the mainstream right currently is.
 

 I’m not sure when you joined this community, but I’ve been posting in one form or another on longhorn message boards since mid 90s. The vast majority of the posters on this board that you are calling leftists are actually center/right pre-trump. We realized there is no room for us either as Republicans or independents who vote Republican more often than not in the present GOP. In the last 8 to 10 years what you think you identify with has gone off the rails. What you think you are identifying with as someone who is for limited government and low spending is long gone and is not coming back to the GOP.  You are going to be either pushed towards where we are or you’re going to be sucked into the far right insanity.  This isn’t what we want. The purity tests have already started. If Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney (and now Mitch McConnell!) are vilified as the left, the party is dead. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Look fatty, I'm not a democrat. I hate their politics,

I find this hard to believe. But I assume you are saying you identify as more of a progressive, further left?

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

their weakness, and inability to actually do anything they say they want to.

I believe this, it's a common complaint from the further left. 

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Their leadership is bought and paid for by corporate interests. 

Can we not #bothsides this one?  Without the sarcastic follow up post of #BoThSiDeS 111!1

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The democrats arent actively aiming to roll back civil and voting rights. They aren't looking to institutionalize gay people as second class citizens, or selectively edit history.

Outside of message board hyperbole, neither are the R's.  But hey, got to have something to be outraged about.  I'd make a joke that MSNBC told you to be, but I know all the D's here get their info from super legit sources that are painstakingly researched.  

[Brisketexan 105059]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

I think you post in good faith. I think you are in denial about where the mainstream right currently is.
 

 I’m not sure when you joined this community, but I’ve been posting in one form or another on longhorn message boards since mid 90s. The vast majority of the posters on this board that you are calling leftists are actually center/right pre-trump. We realized there is no room for us either as Republicans or independents who vote Republican more often than not in the present GOP. In the last 8 to 10 years what you think you identify with has gone off the rails. What you think you are identifying with as someone who is for limited government and low spending is long gone and is not coming back to the GOP.  You are going to be either pushed towards where we are or you’re going to be sucked into the far right insanity.  This isn’t what we want. The purity tests have already started. If Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney (and now Mitch McConnell!) are vilified as the left, the party is dead. 

This.

Fatty, I truly don't think you are a bad guy.  I don't.  I think that you are willfully -- and understandably -- blind to the choice before you.  Because it's not a pleasant choice.

The modern GQP has made it a binary choice: either stand for violent insurrection, insane lies, and an unwavering cult of personality with a 100% loyalty test....or oppose it.  EVERYONE other than the GQP is in the "oppose it" side.  You can't both stand with the GQP AND oppose those things.  They have told you over and over that such a stance is unacceptable, you are a RINO, and if you were an official, you would literally be censured by the party for it.

You don't have to like everything the opposition stands for.  For now, you just have to like one thing: fighting for the Republic and the Rule of law instead of supporting an overthrown of the government at the hands of an insane cult.

[Brisketexan 105059]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Outside of message board hyperbole, neither are the R's. 

Dude. DUDE.  With regard to most of the "election security" measures the Trumpists are pushing....there is zero "security" based reason for them.  It's all about limiting voting, and making it harder. Not about making it more secure, just about making it harder.  Come on.  You're better than that.  We can debate things like voter ID, but for much of the rest....come the fuck on.  For crying out loud, something like 40% of Texas mail-in ballot applications are being rejected because the law makes it ridiculously vague and hard to get a ballot.  That's ON PURPOSE.

[DigglerontheHoof 21176]

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I find this hard to believe. But I assume you are saying you identify as more of a progressive, further left?

I believe this, it's a common complaint from the further left. 

Can we not #bothsides this one?  Without the sarcastic follow up post of #BoThSiDeS 111!1

Outside of message board hyperbole, neither are the R's.  But hey, got to have something to be outraged about.  I'd make a joke that MSNBC told you to be, but I know all the D's here get their info from super legit sources that are painstakingly researched.  

Your last point is so fucking wrong, it's pathetic....just like the GQP. 

[David Dennison 18847]

18 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Lol.  The left is not short on bigotry, friend.

Which is why I pointed out that the right goes out of its way to appeal to America's most virulent strains.

[Captainant 27627]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

I find this hard to believe. But I assume you are saying you identify as more of a progressive, further left?

I voted Romney in 2012, Johnson in 2016 (lol fuck me right?), and Biden in 2020. I own a safe full of guns and used to shoot IDPA, go fishing at the coast and hunting on the ranch, and can recognize that trickle down economics was a fucking lie. I'm whatever that makes me. In the Obama years and on Shaggy I was much more of a "conservative" posted, and as the Overton window swung further right, you and sack and the DT gang went along with it.

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Outside of message board hyperbole, neither are the R's.  But hey, got to have something to be outraged about.

Fuck you. Florida is passing legislation to out gay children to their parents. Texas' voter suppression effort has been wildly successful with primarily black and minority voters getting their registration arbitrarily revoked and denied. You're either incredibly uninformed and lack the intellectual fortitude to read for yourself, or you're a bad faith troll.

[fattyflattie 4639]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

 I’m not sure when you joined this community,

'08

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

The vast majority of the posters on this board that you are calling leftists are actually center/right pre-trump. We realized there is no room for us either as Republicans or independents who vote Republican more often than not in the present GOP. In the last 8 to 10 years what you think you identify with has gone off the rails. What you think you are identifying with as someone who is for limited government and low spending is long gone and is not coming back to the GOP.

I've posted this nearly verbatim dozens of times on this and previous boards.  And while it no longer exists with the GOP, it never has existed with the D, and I don't know if you noticed, Biden being "the guy" for a few years doesn't mean the D's don't have a very real progressive movement.  

6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You are going to be either pushed towards where we are or you’re going to be sucked into the far right insanity.

I don't believe this.  It's OK to say you've become less conservative on issues as you've gotten older, or richer, or whatever the case may be.  You can very easily disagree with the strong outliers of each party. That doesn't mean you have to vote with them.  Your voting for a "centrist D" in Biden that is attached to the radical progressives wouldn't be any different that voting for McCain and the attached radical right guys out on the fringe.  

At the end of the day, I find myself disagreeing with nearly every single fucking thing from the "progressives".  You can say that's not the D party, whatever, but they are.

[fattyflattie 4639]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We can debate things like voter ID

Can we?  The discussions on this very board leads me to believe that we actually, cannot. 

[David Dennison 18847]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

At the end of the day, I find myself disagreeing with nearly every single fucking thing from the "progressives".  You can say that's not the D party, whatever, but they are.

Along those lines, I have one rule in politics and one rule only: never vote for a Republican.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

42 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I do find it funny.  Especially when issues like those listed below are not new.  These issues didn’t magically appear with Trump  So you were cool with them then, or did you just time your jump perfectly.  I bet you did, y’all always do everything perfectly. I bet you got off the GOP wagon minutes before it completely went south. 

 

This never happens on the left. Ever.  Nothing but down the middle politics. 

Republicans USED to have ideas.  Whether or not you liked the man or not, W pushed policy like a complete overhaul of the immigration system and a complete overhaul of social security.  However, once Obama was elected in 2008, the GOP simply became about obstructing everything he did.  Hell, I did not agree with a lot of his economic stances, but they wouldn't even negotiate in good faith most of the time.  That was the beginning of the end of my support of the Republican party.  The 2016 election was when they truly lost me forever.  I shudder to say this, but ANYONE in the GOP field in 2016, even Lyin' Ted Cruz would have been a better president than Trump.  Trump took the hateful rhetoric to an 11 and kept going forward with it, and that culminated in January 6th.  And a vast majority of the GQP is doubling down on that.  Your willful ignorance of that is a big problem and why you get called out on trying to use "both sides."

My voting record reflects this pretty clearly.  I voted Clinton in 96 (if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it), abstained in 2000, W in 2004, McCain in 2008, Johnson in 2012 and 2016, and Biden in 2020.

Edited February 22, 2022 by PenelopeWitherspoon
Edited to include who I voted for.

[Sawbonz 27534]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

Outside of message board hyperbole, neither are the R's. 

This is absolutely not true. Several states have enacted more restrictive voting laws. A few states have Republican candidates running for SOS on a promise to overturn the will of the voters of their state if their preferred candidate doesn’t win. I mean these people are saying this stuff, go watch their campaign videos. Many will win their primaries and some will get elected. These are your people  

 

If one of my daughters is raped, she may have to carry her rapist’s child to term here in Texas. Your mainstream GOP legislators passed this bill and your mainstream GOP governor signed it. And these mainstream elected officials are facing primaries from their right. It’s going to get worse. Open your eyes. This is not hyperbole 

 

I have a lot of problems with an overly broad social safety net. I’ll take a Medicaid expansion and prolonged unemployment benefits any day over what we are seeing from the current GOP

[Dbeasy 15041]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

This.  I find it funny that we are all called leftists, yet most of us used to consider ourselves Republicans.

I’m a former Republican too and don’t fit nicely on the left right spectrum and I think that’s the problem. I call myself a centrist but that’s not actually correct either  

For example, I agree with some of Bernie Sanders policies (negotiate Medicare drug prices), am a rabid opponent of wealth inequality, but not in favor of allowing people to camp in the streets and get free shit no matter what forever. I want sensible solutions. But left and right are the only descriptions right now. 

[Brisketexan 105059]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Can we?  The discussions on this very board leads me to believe that we actually, cannot. 

Oh, we've debated them.  In fact, on this board, we've generally reached a consensus: 1) almost all of us are fine with a photo ID requirement so long as 2) the government makes it close to automatically available to every qualified voter.  Want to have the requirement?  Then make sure that everyone who is entitled to one gets one, including the poor, homebound, and rural (not near a DL office).

Where we end up broken is the "conservative" refusal to acknowledge that none of the "Voter ID" legislation actually does that.  It only does the first part, because the entire point is to lock eligible voters out.  If you stand for items 1 and 2 above -- as most "conservatives" around here say they do -- then you should oppose functionally every existing and proposed voter ID law.

That's just one example of the things that we CAN agree on.....but the GQP stridently opposes.

[Sawbonz 27534]

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You can very easily disagree with the strong outliers of each party.

Do you disagree with heartbeat laws for abortion and states being able to reject the choice of their voters for president? Because if you disagree with those you are disagreeing with the mainstream of the GOP. You are in denial

[David Dennison 18847]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

I’m a former Republican too and don’t fit nicely on the left right spectrum and I think that’s the problem. I call myself a centrist but that’s not actually correct either  

For example, I agree with some of Bernie Sanders policies (negotiate Medicare drug prices), am a rabid opponent of wealth inequality, but not in favor of allowing people to camp in the streets and get free shit no matter what forever. I want sensible solutions. But left and right are the only descriptions right now. 

That wealth inequality has a lot to do with Wall Street's gettin' free money since 2008.

When do we get to cut off the Masters of the Universe?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

3 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I’m a former Republican too and don’t fit nicely on the left right spectrum and I think that’s the problem. I call myself a centrist but that’s not actually correct either  

For example, I agree with some of Bernie Sanders policies (negotiate Medicare drug prices), am a rabid opponent of wealth inequality, but not in favor of allowing people to camp in the streets and get free shit no matter what forever. I want sensible solutions. But left and right are the only descriptions right now. 

I am totally with you.  I am a staunch advocate for truly equal opportunity, and acknowledge that we have a long way to go for that (definitely not a proponent of equal outcomes, which is a completely different ball of wax), and I do not think going to college should put people in the poor house.  Then again, I also believe that not everyone is equipped to go to college, and there should be viable blue collar career paths that are out there so that people can provide for themselves and their families adequately.  And I am for an end of corporate welfare, which is fucking EVERYWHERE.

[Captainant 27627]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

That wealth inequality has a lot to do with Wall Street's gettin' free money since 2008.

When do we get to cut off the Masters of the Universe?

IMO, it started with Reaganomics, trickle down, and union busting. Wages have been effectively stagnant since the 1970s - if minimum wage was pegged to inflation it should be closer to $25 than $15.

Wall Street is absolutely fucking us over, but they've been doing it for far longer than 2008.

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Several states have enacted more restrictive voting laws

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Texas' voter suppression effort has been wildly successful with primarily black and minority voters getting their registration arbitrarily revoked and denied.

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It's all about limiting voting, and making it harder. Not about making it more secure, just about making it harder. 

Yall are all long time posters.  When Trump carried the country in '16, there was countless posts about: IQ requirements to vote, mandatory education and civil courses to vote etc.  People loved talking about all the idiots that lined up to vote for that MF and how they could/should be limited since their decision making is all so flawed.  Was it serious, you tell me.  But the sanctity of the right to vote rings a bit hollow after many of the opinions on this board. 

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

If one of my daughters is raped, she may have to carry her rapist’s child to term here in Texas.

I've made my views on that very clear here.  But funny enough, when I discuss the "single issue" that I care about, am shouted down and told that single issue voters are the worst, idiots, etc.  

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Along those lines, I have one rule in politics and one rule only: never vote for a Republican.

I don't blame you.  I'm your cancel vote, or vice versa. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That wealth inequality has a lot to do with Wall Street's gettin' free money since 2008.

When do we get to cut off the Masters of the Universe?

I was a proponent of no bail out.  They caused the crisis in 2008 and suffered ZERO consequences.

[ndawg 1242]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I have a lot of problems with an overly broad social safety net. I’ll take a Medicaid expansion and prolonged unemployment benefits any day over what we are seeing from the current GOP

And this sort of rhetorical concession shouldn't even be needed if we were having a discussion with someone in good faith.

The real world outcomes of continuing to support the GOP are obvious. Support for the GOP amounts to a desire to end of the Great Experiment altogether - even if you "agree" with their "ideas."

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33859]

13 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Which is why I pointed out that the right goes out of its way to appeal to America's most virulent strains.

 

10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Along those lines, I have one rule in politics and one rule only: never vote for a Republican.

*except when trying to disrupt their primaries

[Captainant 27627]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

Yall are all long time posters.  When Trump carried the country in '16, there was countless posts about: IQ requirements to vote, mandatory education and civil courses to vote etc.  People loved talking about all the idiots that lined up to vote for that MF and how they could/should be limited since their decision making is all so flawed.  Was it serious, you tell me.  But the sanctity of the right to vote rings a bit hollow after many of the opinions on this board.

Bullshit. Find me a post that says that. Find me pages of discussion and threads on that topic, if it's as pervasive as you say it was.

Back up your claims with evidence. This is an example of bad faith posting.

 

I don't doubt there were comments made to the effect of what you're claiming without evidence, but again, you are conflating mere existence with the volume and focus of the posts.

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I've made my views on that very clear here.  But funny enough, when I discuss the "single issue" that I care about, am shouted down and told that single issue voters are the worst, idiots, etc.  

The problem with single issue voters is that you're shifting your analysis from a logical and policy based argument to a dogmatic argument. There is no reasoning with you, because you were not reasoned into that position.

[Shaddie 1651]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Shit my pants hell. I can point to literally any thread in the CR and show extreme divisiveness from the left.  

Jesus Christ. 
You are comparing an internet squabble to real life assholes who have actual power. 
 

Dumb. 
 

But expected. 

[kevwun 15760]

There is no point in having a discussion with fatty. He's either a troll or an idiot.

[ndawg 1242]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Yall are all long time posters.  When Trump carried the country in '16, there was countless posts about: IQ requirements to vote, mandatory education and civil courses to vote etc.  People loved talking about all the idiots that lined up to vote for that MF and how they could/should be limited since their decision making is all so flawed.  Was it serious, you tell me.  But the sanctity of the right to vote rings a bit hollow after many of the opinions on this board.

You realize that you're admitting that your position is indefensible here, right? When all you feel you need to do to justify your position is simply cite your biased read of public sentiment on a message board five years ago, you have absolutely nothing. Zilch. Your position doesn't stand on its own, it depends on a subjective characterization of the opinions of others. I can't even imagine what it'd be like to be so intellectually unfit that I thought I could trot out my subjective interpretation of message board sentiment as a defense for my own point of view.

[Brisketexan 105059]

And this sort of rhetorical concession shouldn't even be needed if we were having a discussion with someone in good faith.
The real world outcomes of continuing to support the GOP are obvious. Support for the GOP amounts to a desire to end of the Great Experiment altogether - even if you "agree" with their "ideas."
 

This.

It’s literally the only issue that matters anymore. Everything else is details.

[Sawbonz 27534]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

When Trump carried the country in '16, there was countless posts about: IQ requirements to vote, mandatory education and civil courses to vote etc.  People loved talking about all the idiots that lined up to vote for that MF and how they could/should be limited since their decision making is all so flawed.  Was it serious, you tell me.  But the sanctity of the right to vote rings a bit hollow after many of the opinions on this board. 

11 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

This makes absolutely no sense. Show me one piece of proposed legislation to limit anyone’s ability to vote based on any of those criteria 

The mainstream of your party wants people to have to stand for in long lines with no access to water or restrooms in order to exercise their constitutional right to vote. They want partisan elected officials to be able to override those votes if they don’t agree with the outcome. And they want women (even 11 year olds raped by a family member) to have to carry a  fetus to term if there is cardiac electrical activity visible on US. That is mainstream GOP. These are laws in place or soon to be in place. This is what you stand for

[Skipper 6127]

Imagine clicking on a thread titled "Russia" to see the Cloak Room reaction to the latest then reading the last 2 pages LOL.

[Captainant 27627]

1 minute ago, Skipper said:

Imagine clicking on a thread titled "Russia" to see the Cloak Room reaction to the latest then reading the last 2 pages LOL.

It was a Russia thread until our victim in chief fatty started airing his fallacious grievances 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

6 minutes ago, kevwun said:

There is no point in having a discussion with fatty. He's either a troll or an idiot.

Back to Russia..

Quote

Biden calls Putin’s actions the ‘beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine.’

WASHINGTON — President Biden on Tuesday announced harsh new sanctions aimed at punishing Russia for what he called “the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” joining European leaders in imposing severe economic consequences for blatant violations of national sovereignty.

Speaking from the East Room of the White House, Mr. Biden condemned President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia for his aggression against Ukraine, saying that the Russian action is “a flagrant violation of international law and demands a firm response from the international community.”

Mr. Biden said the United States is imposing “full blocking” on two large Russian financial institutions and “comprehensive sanctions” on Russian debt.

“That means we’ve cut off Russia’s government from Western finance,” he said. “It can no longer raise money from the West and cannot trade in its new debt on our markets or European markets either.”

He also said that the United States would impose sanctions on Russian elites and their families, an effort to ensure that those closest to Mr. Putin do not escape financial pain that is expected to hit hard for average Russian citizens.

Mr. Biden delivered his speech less than a day after Mr. Putin issued a decree sending troops into two separatist-held regions in Ukraine. Russia’s Parliament authorized the use of military force abroad on Tuesday, taking another step toward what Western officials fear could be an full-scale assault against Ukraine.

Western leaders said Russian troops have already entered Ukraine in what the president labeled an “invasion.”

But as the tough global response takes shape, Mr. Biden and his counterparts have struggled to balance the need to take swift and severe action while preserving the possibility of even greater sanctions on Russia if Mr. Putin escalates the conflict by attempting to seize the entire country — a war that could kill tens of thousands of people.

Mr. Biden said that he intends to ratchet up sanctions against Mr. Putin if Russia goes further than it has.

“Russia has now undeniably moved against Ukraine,” he said. “Today, I’m announcing the first tranche of sanctions to impose costs on Russia.”

He added: “We’ll continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates.”

Germany announced Tuesday that it would halt certification of a natural gas pipeline linking it with Russia. The British government said that it would sanction members of the Russian Parliament who voted to recognize the independence of the separatist areas and would create legislation to ensure that no British individual or company could do business with the regions, Donetsk and Luhansk.

“This is the first tranche, the first barrage of what we are prepared to do,” Prime Minister Boris Johnson told Parliament on Tuesday.

In the United States, Jon Finer, Mr. Biden’s deputy national security adviser, said that Russia’s forces had begun to move into Ukraine, declaring on CNN that “an invasion is an invasion, and that is what is underway.” But he and Mr. Johnson shared the same sentiment, saying that “we’ve always envisioned waves of sanctions that would unfold over time in response to steps Russia actually takes.”

Two European officials said Tuesday that Russia had sent troops into the area, but Russia’s Foreign Ministry denied having done so.

Mr. Putin remained defiant in the face of the worldwide condemnations of his decision to recognize the independence of the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics created after Russia fomented a separatist war in eastern Ukraine in 2014.

In what sounded like an ultimatum, he demanded that Ukraine recognize Russia’s claim to Crimea and relinquish its advanced weapons.

A deputy defense minister, Nikolai Pankov, said that Ukraine had gathered 60,000 troops to attack the Russia-backed separatist enclaves in the country’s east — a step that Ukraine denies having any plans to take.

“Negotiations have reached a dead end,” Mr. Pankov said in a televised speech. “The Ukrainian leadership has taken the path of violence and bloodshed.”

There was no immediate sign of major military escalation in eastern Ukraine, but fearful Ukrainians boarded buses out of the separatist areas as Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, urged his beleaguered nation to “keep a cool head” in the crisis.

Mr. Zelensky insisted that Ukraine would not yield territory, and his defense minister, Oleksiy Reznikov, appeared to be girding his country’s troops for battle.

“Ahead will be a difficult trial,” Mr. Reznikov said in a somber message released by the military. “There will be losses. You will have to go through pain and overcome fear and despondency.”

A day earlier, Mr. Putin delivered a long, fiery speech that described Ukraine as part of Russia, calling the government in Kyiv little more than a “puppet” of the United States and its leaders solely responsible for whatever “bloodshed” may come next.

“As for those who captured and are holding on to power in Kyiv,” he said, referring to the Ukrainian capital, “we demand that they immediately cease military action.”

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/22/world/russia-ukraine-biden-putin

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

Quote

Senators start work on legislation to aid Ukraine and punish Russia.

 

 

 

Image

 

Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, this month in Washington.Credit...Sarahbeth Maney/The New York Times

WASHINGTON — Senators from both parties began working on Tuesday on a multipronged legislative response toward Russian aggression that would provide emergency funds for Ukraine’s defense, sanction Russia’s economy and create a task force to find ways to seize the wealth of Russian oligarchs, and possibly the riches of Russian’s president, Vladimir V. Putin.

Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, told local reporters in his state that an emergency spending bill and bipartisan sanctions legislation — long delayed in Congress — could pass when lawmakers return from a Presidents’ Day recess.

“I want a sanctions regime from hell next week,” Mr. Graham said. He also had a warning for the broader Russian public: “You can expect bad things to come your way.”

Senator Richard Blumenthal, Democrat of Connecticut, said talks began Monday night and were gathering momentum on Tuesday, after senators argued fruitlessly for the past month over the size, shape and timing of a measure to impose sanctions legislatively.

The spending bill would intensify lethal aid to Ukraine and help the Defense Department fund troop deployments to NATO countries to the north and west of Ukraine. The sanctions bill will focus on the superrich oligarchs who have bolstered Mr. Putin.

“There is consensus among Democrats and Republicans that one of the soft underbellies of Putin’s world is the lavish lifestyles of the oligarchs that he supports to keep him in power,” Mr. Graham said.

Mr. Blumenthal said Germany’s action Monday to halt work on a major natural gas pipeline from Russia to Western Europe had removed the biggest sticking point to a sanctions bill. Some Republicans had been pressing hard for sanctions to cripple the NordStream 2 pipeline, but the Biden administration strongly opposed such an action until a Russian attack, fearing that it would splinter the trans-Atlantic alliance and undermine NATO unity.

From that same NYTimes link.  

[Nivek 16917]

I am totally with you.  I am a staunch advocate for truly equal opportunity, and acknowledge that we have a long way to go for that (definitely not a proponent of equal outcomes, which is a completely different ball of wax), and I do not think going to college should put people in the poor house.  Then again, I also believe that not everyone is equipped to go to college, and there should be viable blue collar career paths that are out there so that people can provide for themselves and their families adequately.  And I am for an end of corporate welfare, which is fucking EVERYWHERE.

How can I become a billionaire if not for corporate welfare/loopholes in the tax code? And who is going to fund my rocket ride to space? Riddle me that Penelope.

[Mdhorn 5947]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Cool. Now do congressional softball games. 

Gabby Giffords?  Pretty sure she's advocating for gun control.  If you're talking about the softball game later, then again, you'll need to ask Republicans why they block gun control laws.  If not, they you really don't care and this is more poo.  And you're better than this--low hanging fruit.  Also, who cut funding for mental health?  The US has the funds to care for it's elderly, young, mentally unstable but can't put my finger on the party that doesn't see any of this as a need.  Something about socialism.  

[kevwun 15760]

Just now, Mdhorn said:

And you're better than this--low hanging fruit.

No he's not.