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Manafort Trial

Grandioso

By Grandioso
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Hugo Stiglitz
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Chooky
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If Mueller completes this investigation leaving no doubt of criminal activity from this administration while at the same time paying for %80 of it with seized cash from Russian money laundering scheme

Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,114

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I have no experience from the criminal side of it, but based on Judge Ellis' comment to the jury the answer appears to be yes as to a partial verdict. 

Me either, but I would think that you could certainly have a (this is entirely hypothetical, BTW) result that looks like this.

On counts 1-5, the jury finds the defendant GUILTY.

On counts 6-9, the jury finds the defendant NOT GUILTY.

On count 10, the jury is deadlocked and cannot reach a verdict -- the court declares a MISTRIAL on count 10.  Then, the prosecution can decide whether to go to trial on count 10 again, or just let it drop.

Or....Fed criminal lawyers....am I off target?

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Blotto

Blotto 23,498

Posted
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Over 60 white dude with a gray goatee and white leather Nikes= 75% chance of Trumptard.

5x multiplier if he's wearing a Harley or Patriotic T shirt. 

Was sitting at a pokertable Sunday with some  old fossil shaped like a weeble wobble that was wearing a Rush Limbaugh Show baseball cap and polo shirt. He kept trying to work Trump bullshit into conversations that had nothing to do with politics, mentioning ISIS running wild in California, MS-13 etc.. he finally left because he had to catch a Jordan Peterson interview on Fox. Guy was a real pleasure.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,457

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Me either, but I would think that you could certainly have a (this is entirely hypothetical, BTW) result that looks like this.

On counts 1-5, the jury finds the defendant GUILTY.

On counts 6-9, the jury finds the defendant NOT GUILTY.

On count 10, the jury is deadlocked and cannot reach a verdict -- the court declares a MISTRIAL on count 10.  Then, the prosecution can decide whether to go to trial on count 10 again, or just let it drop.

Or....Fed criminal lawyers....am I off target?

Not a criminal lawyer, but you appear to be correct.  https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_31

Quote

Rule 31. Jury Verdict

 

(a) Return. The jury must return its verdict to a judge in open court. The verdict must be unanimous.

(b) Partial Verdicts, Mistrial, and Retrial.

(1) Multiple Defendants. If there are multiple defendants, the jury may return a verdict at any time during its deliberations as to any defendant about whom it has agreed.

(2) Multiple Counts. If the jury cannot agree on all counts as to any defendant, the jury may return a verdict on those counts on which it has agreed.

(3) Mistrial and Retrial. If the jury cannot agree on a verdict on one or more counts, the court may declare a mistrial on those counts. The government may retry any defendant on any count on which the jury could not agree.

* * *

 

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shnsajax

shnsajax 3,591

Posted
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5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

If they find him guilty on any counts I gotta think they aren’t going for a retrial on any deadlocked counts.  

But that’s just my armchair assessment 

This was my thought, but I am guessing 16 guilty verdicts out of 18.

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Horndog

Horndog 2,228

Posted
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1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Which of the counts would appear to be an outlier that they might stall out on?

Maybe one of the Federal Savings Bank loan  fraud counts ?  From reports, the CEO seemed hell bent on giving Manafort anything he wanted regardless of his ability to repay.  After all, the opportunity to become the Ambassador to England doesn't roll around every day.  

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scottsins

scottsins 1,966

Posted
Posted
I'm leaning this way also.


There is no reason to lean that way, really. The jury could have easily taken less than 2 days to run through 15 counts with unanimous votes of guilty. All of this extra time could easily be heavy dispute over just one or a few counts.

The likelihood of a hung jury on all 18 counts is very small, given that tax evasion, etc. are basically slam dunks for the government.

It seems like all of the press coverage is DOJ but a terrible job of explaining that the verdicts/hung jury/mistrial scenario isn’t “all or nothing”.
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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32,859

Posted
Posted

Not a legal expert (obviously) but the concerns upthread about the jury having Trumpkins or Trump-haters is why I think he'll be guilty on some counts and not guilty on others. With the verdict on each count having to be unanimous that leads to a bargaining situation in the jury deliberation, I would think. I see almost no way he's guilty on everything or not guilty on everything.

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J.R.

J.R. 150

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Not a legal expert (obviously) but the concerns upthread about the jury having Trumpkins or Trump-haters is why I think he'll be guilty on some counts and not guilty on others. With the verdict on each count having to be unanimous that leads to a bargaining situation in the jury deliberation, I would think. I see almost no way he's guilty on everything or not guilty on everything.

I think its very possible he will be guilty on all counts, given the jury's question.  

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,457

Posted
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4 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

?  They were to the point of putting the check marks based on their question to the judge.  

Civil verdict forms can be notoriously complex:  "If you answered yes in response to question 4, please proceed to answer questions 5 through 7.  If you answered no, omit questions 5 through 7 and proceed to question 8."  And so on and so forth.

I think this verdict form is a bit simpler, and more generalized, but it still takes time to address and hash out 18 counts.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11,669

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3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Civil verdict forms can be notoriously complex:  "If you answered yes in response to question 4, please proceed to answer questions 5 through 7.  If you answered no, omit questions 5 through 7 and proceed to question 8."  And so on and so forth.

I think this verdict form is a bit simpler, and more generalized, but it still takes time to address and hash out 18 counts.

maybe they got all the way through the form and then realized they didn't use a #2 pencil?

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11,669

Posted
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Just now, TwiceHorn said:

I saw in some report that the foreman asked for a new form and Ellis declined.  Apparently they scribbled all over it.

Reminds me of when I took the SAT.

At the very beginning the dude made a huge point about making sure you filled out the right section at the right time.  There would be no opportunity to move your answers to a corrected form if you didn't fill out the right area.  3 or 4 times over.  Then when we started the first section 3 or 4 times, make sure you are filling out section 3 at this time.

Sure enough after the first section some girl asks if she can move her answers to a corrected form.  SMDH

/csb

 

 

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17,673

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Reminds me of when I took the SAT.

At the very beginning the dude made a huge point about making sure you filled out the right section at the right time.  There would be no opportunity to move your answers to a corrected form if you didn't fill out the right area.  3 or 4 times over.  Then when we started the first section 3 or 4 times, make sure you are filling out section 3 at this time.

Sure enough after the first section some girl asks if she can move her answers to a corrected form.  SMDH

/csb

 

 

That girl was at my SAT test too.

And the LSAT test.

Apparently, she likes to take a lot of tests and fuck them up.

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Paul Wesley

Paul Wesley 3,278

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Not a legal expert (obviously) but the concerns upthread about the jury having Trumpkins or Trump-haters is why I think he'll be guilty on some counts and not guilty on others. With the verdict on each count having to be unanimous that leads to a bargaining situation in the jury deliberation, I would think. I see almost no way he's guilty on everything or not guilty on everything.

Huck, that’s how I read this too.  

Bet there are some jurors lobbying for all guilty and some for full acquittal.  

Who knows where they’ll land, but I think there’s almost zero chance of all guilty verdicts.  

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17,534

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

Huck, that’s how I read this too.  

Bet there are some jurors lobbying for all guilty and some for full acquittal.  

Who knows where they’ll land, but I think there’s almost zero chance of all guilty verdicts.  

And you look like a winner!

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