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Manafort Trial

Grandioso

By Grandioso
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Hugo Stiglitz
Hugo Stiglitz
Chooky
Chooky

If Mueller completes this investigation leaving no doubt of criminal activity from this administration while at the same time paying for %80 of it with seized cash from Russian money laundering scheme

Js1

Js1 85,450

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

They would just ignore it.  Hell, dotus already tweeted that these convictions were for crimes that took place 12 years ago.  I didn't know 2014 was 12 years ago, but I'm sure the trumpkins believe it now.

Considering these scum sucking Russian road whores have been in power for what feels like 10 years, it makes perfect sense to me to say 2014 was 12 years ago.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,181

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Skyline said:

In the immortal words of Brisket, nothing matters. When you're the president, they let you do it. 

Is there an "I told you so" emoji?  Because if there is, I'm just going to make it my signature.

This is EXACTLY why you don't elect an amoral insane fuckstick as the POTUS.  He can do anything, including abuse the shit out of some pretty horrifying powers. Here are just some of the powers he has that are UNILATERAL:

Pardon power -- he can pardon ANYONE for ANY crime against the United States.  That means that he can enter into a criminal conspiracy, and pardon all of his conspirators.  And don't look to get him, because he has...

Immunity from prosecution -- won't re-hash details here, but it is pretty well-settled that there's only one way to go after a sitting president who has committed crimes: impeachment.

Commander in chief of the military -- he can, without needing ANY approval from ANY other body, launch military attacks.  Using any weapons he wants.  Against anyone he wants.  While absurd, the POTUS could nuke London.  He could launch airstrikes against Toronto.  He could carpet bomb Paris.  Or, you know, he could just start a bullshit war with a weak country for no good reason at all, to distract from all of his problems.  New Zealand better watch its ass....and if you're in London, figure out where your fallout shelters are, just in case.

 

The office of POTUS is an office of public trust, in the truest sense.  We have to TRUST that the person occupying it isn't a completely depraved piece of shit.  We can't do that now.  That's a problem.  Maybe a fatal one.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4,580

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Skyline said:

In the immortal words of Brisket, nothing matters. When you're the president, they let you do it. 

James Madison on the cure for abuse of the pardon power:

"There is one security in this case [a misuse of the pardon power by the president] to which gentlemen may not have adverted: if the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds to believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty; they can suspend him when suspected, and the power will devolve on the Vice-President."

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,181

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

25A

Not gonna happen.  It's for someone who is incapacitated/incapable.  Not someone who is just plain amoral/evil.  If the captain is going to run the ship aground because he's drunk or passed out, use the 25th.  If he's going to run the ship aground because that's exactly where he wants to take it, no 25th.  We have the second case here.

We have entrusted the entire United States to the person who is perhaps the LEAST trustworthy person IN those United States.  It truly is one of the most amazing events in history.  And it may be the end of our chapter in that history book.

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25,984

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

What is in it for Trump to pardon Manafort?

sends a signal to everybody else in Trumpland that Trump will reward their loyalty.

What are the potential risks and political consequences for Trump if he pardons Manafort?

Manafort cannot take the 5th.  Which is why it will happen later, not sooner

Every Trump prediction can be made using this calculation. 

 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46,001

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

What is in it for Trump to pardon Manafort?

What are the potential risks and political consequences for Trump if he pardons Manafort?

Every Trump prediction can be made using this calculation. 

You attribute WAY too much to Trump's "intellect".  The correct question is:

 

What does Trump think is the best course of action for him right now?

 

That will lead you to the truth.  Always.  It's why he keeps snapping back and forth.  He is incapable of remembering what he said a day ago.  If someone gets high enough on his radar to catch his attention, that drives the current thought process.  Nothing more.  He's a reactionary idiot.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23,367

Posted
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3 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

sends a signal to everybody else in Trumpland that Trump will reward their loyalty.

He’s already sending signals.  Just reading the newspapers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/trump-sought-his-lawyers-advice-weeks-ago-on-possibility-of-pardoning-manafort-but-they-counseled-against-it-giuliani-says/2018/08/23/17dce5c6-a70a-11e8-8fac-12e98c13528d_story.html

This is how Trump operates, through the media.

 He will always fuck you over in the end though.

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HOOK'EMHOOAH

HOOK'EMHOOAH 1,610

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

I don't think it will matter if he pardons Manafort. I don't think Trump is on Manaforts mind, as Russia is Manaforts real boss and has been for years. Manafort won't talk no matter what. 

This. Manafort knows if he talks the Russians will absolutely use their sleepers to sleep him and his family. I'm sure he couldn't really give less of a shit about whatever happens to the dotard in chief.

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27-25

27-25 2,047

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

I don't think it will matter if he pardons Manafort. I don't think Trump is on Manaforts mind, as Russia is Manaforts real boss and has been for years. Manafort won't talk no matter what. 

True, unfortunately.  Manafort knows where the Polonium comes from.

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zork

zork 629

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

James Madison on the cure for abuse of the pardon power:

"There is one security in this case [a misuse of the pardon power by the president] to which gentlemen may not have adverted: if the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds to believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty; they can suspend him when suspected, and the power will devolve on the Vice-President."

 

 

MeaslyDarlingBlacknorwegianelkhound-size

Do it now.

https://giphy.com/explore/do-it?utm_source=media-link&utm_medium=landing&utm_campaign=Media Links&utm_term=https://www.google.com/

 

Bring on Pence, sooner the better.  (I know, I know, it will be Speaker Pelosi after the elections and all of the shit runs downhill /Triplehorn)

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2,664

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Posted
48 minutes ago, zork said:

Bring on Pence, sooner the better.  (I know, I know, it will be Speaker Pelosi after the elections and all of the shit runs downhill /Triplehorn)

 

Who knows.  There's no clean way out of this act of defrauding the American public.  I'd prefer SCOTUS nullification of an illegitimate election corrupted by criminal enterprise and a hostile foreign power followed by a special election.

Mike Pence was picked by Manafort.  Mike Pence oversaw the transition and ignored direct comms from Congress about Mike Flynn then lied to the public about it.  Mike Pence is complicit in the cover-up.  Mike Pence will be exposed before he could ever place a hand on the Bible.  Mike Pence will never be POTUS.

 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45,695

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1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

 

Who knows.  There's no clean way out of this act of defrauding the American public.  I'd prefer SCOTUS nullification of an illegitimate election corrupted by criminal enterprise and a hostile foreign power followed by a special election.

Mike Pence was picked by Manafort.  Mike Pence oversaw the transition and ignored direct comms from Congress about Mike Flynn then lied to the public about it.  Mike Pence is complicit in the cover-up.  Mike Pence will be exposed before he could ever place a hand on the Bible.  Mike Pence will never be POTUS.

 

Yep.  NPR was talking today about impeachment and how we would deal with Pence.  Never even crossed their mind that Pence might not be an option either.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,181

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:
1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:
Trial 1 implications in Trial 2
 

Even if i did read that i probably wouldn't understand it. Just being honest. Do you have a cliffs notes dumbed down version for us plebes?

In trial 1, defense attorneys were told by the court that they can't say anything about the DOJ's motives in prosecuting Manafort -- you can't say "witch hunt" and this is all about getting Trump and whatnot.

They did anyway, repeatedly.  And the court issues a weak-ass limiting instruction.

So in trial 2, we have a proven track record of bad behavior by the defense on this issue.  So prohibit them from doing that shit, and if they do so anyway, issue a much stronger limiting instruction to the jury, telling them that the defense willfully disobeyed a court order.

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33,881

Posted
Posted
In trial 1, defense attorneys were told by the court that they can't say anything about the DOJ's motives in prosecuting Manafort -- you can't say "witch hunt" and this is all about getting Trump and whatnot.
They did anyway, repeatedly.  And the court issues a weak-ass limiting instruction.
So in trial 2, we have a proven track record of bad behavior by the defense on this issue.  So prohibit them from doing that shit, and if they do so anyway, issue a much stronger limiting instruction to the jury, telling them that the defense willfully disobeyed a court order.
You're a national treasure
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Ted Lange

Ted Lange 16,110

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

In trial 1, defense attorneys were told by the court that they can't say anything about the DOJ's motives in prosecuting Manafort -- you can't say "witch hunt" and this is all about getting Trump and whatnot.

They did anyway, repeatedly.  And the court issues a weak-ass limiting instruction.

So in trial 2, we have a proven track record of bad behavior by the defense on this issue.  So prohibit them from doing that shit, and if they do so anyway, issue a much stronger limiting instruction to the jury, telling them that the defense willfully disobeyed a court order.

g1364581716795938162.jpg

 

also, why do I have a feeling this all ends with Trump tweeting, YOUR GODDAMN RIGHT I ORDERED THE RUSIAN COLLUSION!

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23,367

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18 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 

From the article:

 

More than ever, Trump is acting by feeling and instinct. “Trump is nuts,” said one former West Wing official. “This time really feels different.” Deputy Chief of Staff Bill Shine has privately expressed concern, a source said, telling a friend that Trump’s emotional state is “very tender.” Even Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump are unsettled that Trump is so gleefully acting on his most self-destructive impulses as his legal peril grows. According to a source, Jared and Ivanka told Trump that stripping security clearances from former intelligence officials would backfire, but Trump ignored them. Kushner later told a friend Trump “got joy” out of taking away John Brennan’s clearance. His reaction to the death of John McCain—quashing a White House statement in praise of the senator, and restoring White House flags to full staff—falls into the same self-indulgent category.

The news of Cohen’s plea and Paul Manafort’sconviction, which were followed by revelations that Trump Organization C.F.O. Allen Weisselberg and National Enquirer publisher David Pecker are cooperating with federal prosecutors, have rattled Trump like few other turns in the investigation have, sources said. Flying on Air Force One to his West Virginia rally last week, Trump seemed “bummed” and “down and out,” a person briefed on his mood told me. “He was acting like, ‘I know the news is bad, but I don’t know what to do about it,’” the source said. At the rally, an uncharacteristically subdued Trump barely mentioned Cohen or Manafort.

By the weekend, though, his anger had returned. “He spent the weekend calling people and screaming,” one former White House official said. According to sources, the president feels cornered with no clear way out. His months-long campaign to get Sessions to resign—so that Trump could appoint a new A.G. who would shut down the Russia probe—not only failed to get Sessions to step down, but it’s caused him to dig in, as evidenced by Sessions’s rare statement asserting the independence of the Justice Department. “Trump knows at least through the midterms he won’t get another A.G.,” a former White House official said.

After Cohen effectively named Trump an unindicted co-conspirator in campaign-finance crimes with the payments to Stormy Daniels and Playboy Playmate Karen McDougal, Trump’s public posture was that the payments weren’t crimes. Privately, according to two sources, Trump attorneys suggested that a strategy for dealing with the issue could be for Trump to admit to having affairs with women and paying hush money to them for years. That way, he could assert that the payments to Daniels and McDougal were normal business—not campaign donations meant to influence the 2016 election. Trump, according to the sources, rejected this advice. “It was because of Melania,” one source said.

Inside the West Wing, a sense of numbness and dread has set in among senior advisers as they gird for what Trump will do next. “It’s a return to the abyss,” said one former official who’s in frequent contact with the White House. “This is back to being a one-man show, and everyone is on the outside looking in.”

Two sources told me that Trump continues to raise the possibility of a pardon for Manafort, his former campaign chairman. Trump has been clashing with White House counsel Don McGahn, who, sources said, is strongly against granting Manafort a pardon. (A lawyer for McGahn did not respond to a request for comment.) Trump has told people he’s considering bringing in a new lawyer to draft a Manafort pardon, if McGahn won’t do it. “He really at this point does not care,” a former official said. “He would rather fight the battle. He doesn’t want to do anything that would cede executive authority.”

The White House did not respond to a request for comment.

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,514

Posted
Posted
Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Is he going to pardon Manafort before or after he fires Jeff Sessions and Robert Mueller?

because those are two things he most certainly wants to do but hasn’t.

He may not be worried about the voters for himself, or worried about impeachment, but I think he understands that these moves would have fallout in the midterms.  He's fucking insane, but apparently fairly lucid about matters electoral.

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suddenly shaggy

suddenly shaggy 929

Posted
Posted

If the Dems don't retake the House in 2018, he's going to get away with it. He's going to shut everything down after the election.

The outcome is still uncertain, even with a Dem House. If the Dems do retake the House, there will be successful investigations, but information space is not a clean battlefield and virtually everyone that's engaged and good at it is against US interests.

Don't think Vlad doesn't know this. He's not going to let up when he has the knife at our throat. Russian meddling in the 2018 and 2020 elections will show everyone that 2016 was just a warm-up.  

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23,367

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Posted

How exactly would Trump work the Manafort pardon?

Would he pardon just the charges in trial 1?

If he pardons for the crimes in trial 2, Trump would also have to pardon the GRU officer indicted with Manafort.  I’m sure that would go over well.

I’m sure Trump has thought all this through tho.

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