ESPN's best players of the 21st century

[ztejas 42,775]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40616441/ranking-top-25-nba-players-21st-century

Submitted without comment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay one comment - if you come up to me and with a straight face attempt to argue that Dwyane Wade was a better player than Kevin Durant I'm going to laugh you out of the fucking room.

Discuss.

[PittsburghTiger 6,067]

Dirk & Durant both above Wade.

[conVINCEd 21,468]

Garnett is criminally overrated.

[A’Dam Psycho 1,434]

What does Dwayne Wade do better than Kevin Durant? Like literally anything 

[ztejas 42,775]

1 minute ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

What does Dwayne Wade do better than Kevin Durant? Like literally anything 

The only argument that I need for KD > Wade is imagine if you put Durant and LeBron on the same team in 2011.

[chainsaw 9,573]

Steph shouldn't be ahead of Duncan or Shaq. LeBron shouldn't be ahead of Kobe or Duncan. This is engagement bait.

[ztejas 42,775]

1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

Steph shouldn't be ahead of Duncan or Shaq. LeBron shouldn't be ahead of Kobe or Duncan. This is engagement bait.

Shaq is a weird guy to rate. 

LeBron is 100% the best player since Jordan. 

I'd probably have it:

Lebron

Duncan

Steph

Kobe

Shaq

KD/Jokic

Then the rest.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4,626]

LeBron, Duncan, Kobe, Steph, Shaq, KD, Jokic, Dirk, Wade, Garnett. 

[closetohumping 17,287]

Bron is the king.  Don’t have to like it but it’s unarguable 

 

[Post Oak 20,092]

Lebron 

Duncan

Kobe

[nolongerU2horn 716]

Luka 20 spots too low

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,788]

Garnett is criminally overrated.

I’d put Dirk, Jokic and maybe Giannis ahead of KG…but for KGs prime his best teammate was Wally Z and 1 good year with over the hill Spree and Cassell. Still one of the best defenders, passers, rebounders while scoring 20 PPG ever, so….


I’d also put Duncan ahead of Bryant. Can’t deny the winning percentages and titles.

[Pam Cummings 9,416]

Obviously biased but I can't find any justification for Kobe to be above Duncan. Dude was just flat out better for a longer period of time.

 

Don't mind people thinking KG was great. He was. Just wasn't on the level of a Duncan or a Shaq.

[chainsaw 9,573]

I've watched all of LeBron's career. He's not better than Kobe or Duncan. LeBron never accomplished anything like Kobe's 2009 finals run nor Duncan's 2003 performance.

[ztejas 42,775]

56 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Obviously biased but I can't find any justification for Kobe to be above Duncan. Dude was just flat out better for a longer period of time.

 

Agree.

1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

I've watched all of LeBron's career. He's not better than Kobe or Duncan. LeBron never accomplished anything like Kobe's 2009 finals run nor Duncan's 2003 performance.

He's better than both of them. He's LeBron fucking James.

[Pam Cummings 9,416]

8 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I've watched all of LeBron's career. He's not better than Kobe or Duncan. LeBron never accomplished anything like Kobe's 2009 finals run nor Duncan's 2003 performance.

What are you talking about? He overcame a 3-1 finals deficit to win a title in Cleveland. I've always thought one in Cleveland is worth 3 anywhere else.

Edited July 26 by Pam Cummings

[Hate 20,046]

Lebron played in the East most of his career. There is no way he has as many titles or Finals appearances in the west. And if ever there was an asterisk on a title, it’s the 2020 “Covid title”. 

[chainsaw 9,573]

12 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

What are you talking about? He overcame a 3-1 finals deficit to win a title in Cleveland. I've always thought one in Cleveland is worth 3 anywhere else.

Superteams really don't impress me and if you remember that series more of the heroics and clutch moments were Kryie's doing, as well as Draymond's idiocy leading to a costly suspension.

[Pam Cummings 9,416]

12 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Superteams really don't impress me and if you remember that series more of the heroics and clutch moments were Kryie's doing, as well as Draymond's idiocy leading to a costly suspension.

He dropped 45 in game 5, everyone said "it's only because draymond wasn't there!!!!" and then he dropped another 45 in game 6. With Draymond. And Kyrie only got a chance to be clutch because Lebron literally led the team in every category and made one of the best defensive plays in Finals history to set it up.

Edited July 26 by Pam Cummings

[chainsaw 9,573]

25 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

He dropped 45 in game 5, everyone said "it's only because draymond wasn't there!!!!" and then he dropped another 45 in game 6. With Draymond. And Kyrie only got a chance to be clutch because Lebron literally led the team in every category and made one of the best defensive plays in Finals history to set it up.

I don't think that's right, but either way LeBron benefitted from a legendary chokejob and very questionable officiating (especially in Game 6). I'm still much less impressed than Kobe 09 (gentleman's sweep, 32 points per game) and Duncan 03 (sweep, averaged 24-17).

[gofuckyourself 8,057]

4 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Bron is the king.  Don’t have to like it but it’s unarguable 

 

I don't know who the "Lae's" are

Or "BTO"

But I know this is the dumbest looking shit I've seen today, this week, or this month.

So congrats on that.

[gofuckyourself 8,057]

FuckKawhiLeonard in front of nearly anyone is a joke, other than "Most Valueless Malingerers"

But that they put him in front of Manu "Wins Shit-Tons of Games and Kills Bats With His Bare Hands" Ginobili is an affront to anyone who loves watching basketball, or dudes swatting bats.

[Hate 20,046]

15 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I don't think that's right, but either way LeBron benefitted from a legendary chokejob and very questionable officiating (especially in Game 6). I'm still much less impressed than Kobe 09 (gentleman's sweep, 32 points per game) and Duncan 03 (sweep, averaged 24-17).

The Spurs didn’t sweep the Nets in ‘03. They won in 6 games.

[closetohumping 17,287]

1 hour ago, chainsaw said:

I've watched all of LeBron's career. He's not better than Kobe or Duncan. LeBron never accomplished anything like Kobe's 2009 finals run nor Duncan's 2003 performance.

2009?   Where he beat the Orlando magic?  Lebron beat a 72 win team

[chainsaw 9,573]

5 minutes ago, Hate said:

The Spurs didn’t sweep the Nets in ‘03. They won in 6 games.

sorry I meant to mention that he swept LeBron, although by then Parker and Ginobili were in their prime.

1 minute ago, closetohumping said:

2009?   Where he beat the Orlando magic?  Lebron beat a 72 win team

He did it without Shaq, though.

[Pam Cummings 9,416]

25 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I don't think that's right, but either way LeBron benefitted from a legendary chokejob and very questionable officiating (especially in Game 6). I'm still much less impressed than Kobe 09 (gentleman's sweep, 32 points per game) and Duncan 03 (sweep, averaged 24-17).

I can respect not liking lebron. Just seems like a lot of people let their dislike for him as a person color their analysis of him as a player is all.

Edited July 26 by Pam Cummings

[chainsaw 9,573]

Just now, Pam Cummings said:

I can respect not liking lebron. Just seems like a lot of people let their dislike for him as a person color their analysis for him as a player is all.

I think he's in the highest tier of greatness, but he's not better than Kobe, Duncan, or Shaq. And definitely not greater than Jordan.

[Pam Cummings 9,416]

2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I think he's in the highest tier of greatness, but he's not better than Kobe, Duncan, or Shaq. And definitely not greater than Jordan.

It's absurdity to have Kobe even in that group to be honest. But that's how powerful MJ propaganda has been. We elevate the guy that REMINDS us of him into top 5 status.

Edited July 26 by Pam Cummings

[closetohumping 17,287]

32 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

sorry I meant to mention that he swept LeBron, although by then Parker and Ginobili were in their prime.

He did it without Shaq, though.

He had gasol, Odom and Bynum 

[chainsaw 9,573]

Kobe has five titles and LeBron does not. None of Kobe's five titles have an asterisk, while 2020 is the most asterisk asterisk to ever asterisk.

LeBron assembled superteams, even for his sole title in Cleveland.

Kobe was a Laker his entire career and was able to win with and without Shaq.

1 minute ago, closetohumping said:

He had gasol, Odom and Bynum 

Gasol was good, but he's not on Shaq's level of greatness or physical dominance.

[Pam Cummings 9,416]

Kobe asked out of LA. Multiple times.

[Kermit 3,099]

ESPN is parsing their Duncan rating by saying that without his rookie year and his 99 championship, he doesn’t have the resume to be above Steph and Kobe. Fuck ESPN. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,788]

ESPN is parsing their Duncan rating by saying that without his rookie year and his 99 championship, he doesn’t have the resume to be above Steph and Kobe. Fuck ESPN. 

Duncan spending just 48 days under .500 in 21 years is all you need to know

[Braff Zacklin 13,289]

43 minutes ago, Kermit said:

ESPN is parsing their Duncan rating by saying that without his rookie year and his 99 championship, he doesn’t have the resume to be above Steph and Kobe. Fuck ESPN. 

 

22 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Duncan spending just 48 days under .500 in 21 years is all you need to know

Best thing, Duncan doesn't give two shits about this ranking. Meanwhile, LeBron and Kobe (if he were still around) obsess about stuff like this.

That said, I've no hatred for LBJ. What he's doing at his age is nothing short of amazing. And I think @Pam Cummings makes a solid point--that 2016 title over the 73-9 Warriors was special.

[Kermit 3,099]

25 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

 

Best thing, Duncan doesn't give two shits about this ranking. Meanwhile, LeBron and Kobe (if he were still around) obsess about stuff like this.

That said, I've no hatred for LBJ. What he's doing at his age is nothing short of amazing. And I think @Pam Cummings makes a solid point--that 2016 title over the 73-9 Warriors was special.

[gofuckyourself 8,057]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Duncan spending just 48 days under .500 in 21 years is all you need to know

I had to look it up even as a Spurs fan and just see that again.

Casuals who say the Spurs weren't a dynasty because they didn't win back-to-back titles or whatever ignore the impossibility of this sustained excellence.

[Derka 5,556]

8 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Bron is the king.  Don’t have to like it but it’s unarguable 

 

lebron is the king of bricking FTs and losing in the finals. 

[threesheets 1,642]

On 7/26/2024 at 7:36 AM, nolongerU2horn said:

Luka 20 spots too low

Yeah, just leave him off altogether. It should require ten years in the league to qualify so they don't do shit like that and make themselves look fucking stupid.

[Michael Knight 12,699]

Kobe Bryant dying really did alot for his legacy no way hes #2

[Derka 5,556]

according to everyone under 25 he’s the goat now. of course everyone under 25 thinks that jordan was trash, so that’s not surprising.

[billfromlaketravis 11,286]

Kobe at 2 Is going to have Laker fan big mad. LeBron curing cancer couldn’t change their minds. Kobe is Tupac for his generation.

These lists are tough. Draymond at best is Rodman Light. Yet, without him GSW doesn’t win 4 titles.

Any player that has failed to win a conference final in their career shouldn’t be on this list. It’s not a low bar, but it’s a bar when most star players log 15 seasons of NBA service. 

[Hate 20,046]

18 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Kobe at 2 Is going to have Laker fan big mad. LeBron curing cancer couldn’t change their minds. Kobe is Tupac for his generation.

These lists are tough. Draymond at best is Rodman Light. Yet, without him GSW doesn’t win 4 titles.

Any player that has failed to win a conference final in their career shouldn’t be on this list. It’s not a low bar, but it’s a bar when most star players log 15 seasons of NBA service. 

Without Durant that team doesn’t win 4 titles.

[Patrick Bateman 3,851]

9 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

Kobe Bryant dying really did alot for his legacy no way hes #2

Yea, it's more about a guy who people enjoyed watching and played an aesthetically pleasing game who had a tragic death leading to rosy retrospection.  He was a great, no doubt, but he wasn't a top 10 all-time player and certainly doesn't belong at #2 on this list.... 

[aggie08 20,344]

On 8/1/2024 at 8:55 PM, Hate said:

Without Durant that team doesn’t win 4 titles.

Agreed. Probably just 3.

[Beau Vine 53,653]

I'm not a fan, but Chris Paul is waaaaay too low on that list.

[Covri 6,149]

6 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I'm not a fan, but Chris Paul is waaaaay too low on that list.

On the list of dick punchers?

[Hate 20,046]

I can’t stand Chris Paul and I’m unhappy he is now on the Spurs. He’s never won shit and is completely overrated. He’s a world class flopper and borderline dirty player.

[Beau Vine 53,653]

31 minutes ago, Hate said:

I can’t stand Chris Paul and I’m unhappy he is now on the Spurs. He’s never won shit and is completely overrated. He’s a world class flopper and borderline dirty player.

I agree with all of this, other than I'd delete "borderline."    My point stands.   He was a better PG than either Kidd or Nash and I'll also put him over Stockton, who was incredibly overrated.

[conVINCEd 21,468]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

I can’t stand Chris Paul and I’m unhappy he is now on the Spurs. He’s never won shit and is completely overrated. He’s a world class flopper and borderline dirty player.

Borderline?  That’s like saying a woman pushing three bills might have a bit of a weight problem.

[Chewbacca 7,617]

Garnett is criminally overrated.

Yep. KG over Jokic? No way. And I'd bump up KD a couple spots, too.

Harden and CP feel to high as well.