Paris Olympics - Non-Sports Thread

[SurlyGator 822]

GTFOH with that "She's a quitter" talk.  Vertigo makes walking down a hall difficult.  I can't imagine what it would do to a gymnast.  You can power through a lot of musculoskeletal issues, as she proved this Olympics.  Vertigo is a different animal in this sport.

[Bevo 13436]

2 hours ago, SurlyGator said:

GTFOH with that "She's a quitter" talk.  Vertigo makes walking down a hall difficult.  I can't imagine what it would do to a gymnast.  You can power through a lot of musculoskeletal issues, as she proved this Olympics.  Vertigo is a different animal in this sport.

 

I don't remember her ever being diagnosed with vertigo. The only thing medical that I am aware of is that she took medications for ADHD. As for 4 years ago, she fell, lost her confidence, had anxiety issues and stopped competing. It isn't that that in itself is terrible for a person, and it is totally understandable and forgivable. However, it does preclude talk of being the greatest of all time when it happens in someone's prime and in the only big stage in women's gymnastics. I never saw it happen to Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Earl Campbell, Usaine Bolt, Muhammed Ali, or practically anyone else you may consider the greatest of all time.

With that said, it is only my opinion. And I couldn't care any less about her legacy, your opinion of her, or your opinion of me based on my opinion of her. The only reason I brought it up is that HenryJames claimed that it is racist to not like her. Quite frankly I found that one of the dumbest comments in the history of the internet.

 

[fattyflattie 4633]

5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I don't remember her ever being diagnosed with vertigo. The only thing medical that I am aware of is that she took medications for ADHD. As for 4 years ago, she fell, lost her confidence, had anxiety issues and stopped competing.

Correct. The “vertigo” came up well after being roasted for her mental. 

[fattyflattie 4633]

6 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Correct. The “vertigo” came up well after being roasted for her mental. 

Eta: obviously mental blocks in that sport are huge.  But handing out stuffed animal goats at your events and having a crystal goat in your leo design makes it easier to roll eyes.  Also, lol at “it’s racism”. 80% of the team is POC. 

[Hitch 50]

3 hours ago, YChang said:

BTW, I totally see how she can be both. GOAT in her sport and surly towards her fans young and old.

But yet again it’s always fascinating to see from our posters how some of our values are reflected. She’s a quitter versus she’s got grit. She’s a failure versus progress and achievement isn’t always a linear journey.  

It’s interesting because while she is surly towards older fans, she’s more indifferent towards younger fans. I couldn’t imagine walking by a group of adoring 5 year olds and not even smiling or waving. Like Fatty mentioned earlier, it’s just very awkward and the kids are left confused. 

[4th&Five 41111]

26 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Correct. The “vertigo” came up well after being roasted for her mental. 

She said she had the twisties pretty much immediately after withdrawing. 

[Bevo 13436]

4 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

She said she had the twisties pretty much immediately after withdrawing. 

Vertigo is an inner ear issue that causes dizziness. The twisties, on the other hand, is a loss of confidence and a mental issue where the mind and body aren't in sync and there is fear that one won't land properly.

[fattyflattie 4633]

50 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

She said she had the twisties pretty much immediately after withdrawing. 

And gave 100% credit to her therapist and their several times a week sessions for her return.   Probably her ENT therapist. 
 

Eta: credit is due to overcoming mental blocks as well.  Massive issue with athletes in this sport.  She’s gets credit from me for overcoming that, but it hit her at a bad time 
 

Edited August 3 by fattyflattie

[aggie08 20343]

2 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

I don't remember her ever being diagnosed with vertigo. The only thing medical that I am aware of is that she took medications for ADHD. As for 4 years ago, she fell, lost her confidence, had anxiety issues and stopped competing. It isn't that that in itself is terrible for a person, and it is totally understandable and forgivable. However, it does preclude talk of being the greatest of all time when it happens in someone's prime and in the only big stage in women's gymnastics. I never saw it happen to Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Earl Campbell, Usaine Bolt, Muhammed Ali, or practically anyone else you may consider the greatest of all time.

With that said, it is only my opinion. And I couldn't care any less about her legacy, your opinion of her, or your opinion of me based on my opinion of her. The only reason I brought it up is that HenryJames claimed that it is racist to not like her. Quite frankly I found that one of the dumbest comments in the history of the internet.

 

Michael Jordan literally quit for two years because he was burnt out on being the GOAT and everything else that comes with it. This is so fucking stupid.

Edited August 3 by aggie08

[Bevo 13436]

29 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Michael Jordan literally quit for two years because he was burnt out on being the GOAT and everything else that comes with it. This is so fucking stupid.

Your first comment on this subject was idiotic and then you follow up with this nonsense.  Michael Jordan didn't quit in the middle of the biggest competition of his life. And his claim to fame was Game 5 of the 1997 NBA Finals when he became ill. In this flu game, Jordan played 44 minutes and finished with 38 points, 7 rebounds and 5 assists.

If you are referring to Jordan's stint in baseball, his dad was murdered and he pursued baseball as a new challenge and a welcomed distraction. I can't see any way to compare the two people.

[HornOnTheBayou 8852]

3 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

I don't remember her ever being diagnosed with vertigo. The only thing medical that I am aware of is that she took medications for ADHD. As for 4 years ago, she fell, lost her confidence, had anxiety issues and stopped competing. It isn't that that in itself is terrible for a person, and it is totally understandable and forgivable. However, it does preclude talk of being the greatest of all time when it happens in someone's prime and in the only big stage in women's gymnastics. I never saw it happen to Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Earl Campbell, Usaine Bolt, Muhammed Ali, or practically anyone else you may consider the greatest of all time.

With that said, it is only my opinion. And I couldn't care any less about her legacy, your opinion of her, or your opinion of me based on my opinion of her. The only reason I brought it up is that HenryJames claimed that it is racist to not like her. Quite frankly I found that one of the dumbest comments in the history of the internet.

 

Plenty of GOATs have had physical injuries in their careers that caused them to miss games or seasons. So why was what happened to Biles any different than that? It's not like she sat out because she wanted to or because she just didn't feel like competing. Problems with mental health are just as debilitating as problems with physical health.

[aggie08 20343]

29 minutes ago, Bevo said:

If you are referring to Jordan's stint in baseball, his dad was murdered and he pursued baseball as a new challenge and a welcomed distraction.

It's cool that you believe that, but very little supports it.

My first comment was idiotic? You're the one who chastised Biles for her lack of humility, then immediately brought up MJ (the least humble athlete on the planet, and revered for it) as a comparison. Textbook double-standard, no matter how you try to spin it.

[YGIFS 19445]

I get the Ali comparison.  Because Ali emerged from the corner a few rounds over the years to fight even though he was in a definite fog.  LeBron goes out there not 100%, yeah-he could tear an ACL or break an ankle.  There's some old school NFLers who definitely stayed in for plays when their brains had no idea where they were other than off-tackle ready to get the ball.  Nowadays, no GOAT from Brady to anybody else is even going to be allowed to stay in the stadium, let alone go in for a series if they even remotely display symptoms like Simone. I think Boxing is probably the only major sport that compares to losing your awareness for a split second having a high likelihood of brain damage.  That's not gonna happen to Bolt, or Messi, or Phelps, Chamberlain, or Gretzky, or Serena Willams.  They can seriously injure themselves and be forced into early retirement but they'll chew their own food.  

Compare Simone to LeBron by height.  Some of the heights her little body achieves are 11-12' (depending on vault, floor, uneven bars).  That's like a guy the size of LeBron dunking from 14-15' off the court (his head too, not just his dunking hand).  Now think of LeBron getting the rock near the free throw line, 4-5 powerful steps in before lift-off.  He's moving, but not all that fast.  He comes down wrong, 99.9% of the time the impact is absorbed by his legs and butt/lower back.  He probably sits out the rest of the quarter with ice.  When Simone begins the propulsion rotations for a dismount from the top of the uneven bars, (the centrifugal force in stories) her inertia is creating a tremendous amount of force that makes a tomahawk dunk look simple when you consider the mass of the bodies in question.  Landing wrong could mean anything from a twisted ankle to fractured spine.  Thankfully, that's an apparatus where coaches are within inches and can help break the fall if they see something go awry on the descent.  Floor is kind of a mixed animal. 

Here's why her sitting out the vault in Tokyo is not "quitting on 'Murica, nor her team."  She approaches the vault at sprinter speeds of roughly 16-18mph.  Barefoot.  That's faster than most of us can sprint for 50m on a forgiving track with proper running shoes.  Depending on the maneuver/attempt number, she will be achieving heights of up to 12' (again consider her size).  She will most likely be leaving the springboard head/hand-first, and quite possibly backwards.  All of which, combined with her velocity create unprecedented amounts of force for the human body outside a mechanized device.  Now, at these elite levels, they obviously train to remain cognizant and composed at those speeds and heights to execute twists/flips/tucks/etc.  You don't seem them at practice or lesser competitions, but if they are not feeling (Simone or otherwise) 100% mentally, they will frequently sit out or delay a run. 

tl;dr---Given her speed approaching the fault, the force generated, the position in which she leaves, peaks and, lands.  Combined with the fact that nobody can get to vaulter in peril as fast as they'd like.  And because of how quickly she moves in the air as compared to ground-speed.  If she goes dark for just 1/10th of a second up there, it's not a MCL or broken ankle or shattered hip.  It's C2-C7 compressing to absorb the fall and she spends 18 months learning to walk again. 

I don't care about GOAT debates.  We're all biased by generation and geography.  In the end, it's the Cowherds and Romes of the world, a pack of has-beens and never-was', shouting at one another about nothing empirical.  But physics are objective.  You can't sleep on gravity. But you can stay awake polishing all that gold.  

[Underdog 28117]

Simone has more ball(s) than Lance. 

[Bevo 13436]

Question about MJ - I never followed him other than watching him on the court. Was he shielded by the media much like Tiger Woods?

I saw this on Quora:

Quote

Only advertisers perceived Jordan as a nice guy.

Many of his teammates perceived him as an asshole. He punched out Will Perdue and Steve Kerr in practice. He would throw the ball at Bill Cartwright’s head because he didn’t like him. He cheated in the dumbest little games with Horace Grant. He turned the entire team and city for that matter against Jerry Krause simply because Krause implied Jordan wouldn’t have won championships without good teammates to compliment him. And these are people on his team.

His Hall of Fame speech is basically just a list of his ongoing grudges and perceived slights:

 

[4th&Five 41111]

Jordan was the original petty king. Some of his teammates still hate him. 

[4th&Five 41111]

2 hours ago, Bevo said:

Your first comment on this subject was idiotic and then you follow up with this nonsense.  Michael Jordan didn't quit in the middle of the biggest competition of his life. And his claim to fame was Game 5 of the 1997 NBA Finals when he became ill. In this flu game, Jordan played 44 minutes and finished with 38 points, 7 rebounds and 5 assists.

If you are referring to Jordan's stint in baseball, his dad was murdered and he pursued baseball as a new challenge and a welcomed distraction. I can't see any way to compare the two people.

His claim to fame occurred in 1997? He’d been basically a household name for 15 years by then. 

[Bevo 13436]

Just now, 4th&Five said:

His claim to fame occurred in 1997? He’d been basically a household name for 15 years by then. 

 

That's when my wife became a fan. And for a lot of people, it showed a different level of determination and will than other players of his era. I grew up in Houston and knew the Phi Slamma Jamma guys because I knew Reid Gettys who played on those teams and my dad knew Guy Lewis so I was allowed on the court. So Drexler and Olajuwon had some special place for me as a fan. The Bulls were the enemy. But that game made me a believer.

[atomheartbevo 88912]

19 hours ago, Bevo said:

Question about MJ - I never followed him other than watching him on the court. Was he shielded by the media much like Tiger Woods?

I saw this on Quora:

Krause deserved to be hated.  That little fuck was willing to break up an amazing team because he was Jerry Krause.

[A-Tex Devil 2412]

Anyone that doesn’t think SB is the greatest ever is a fucking idiot.  It’s fucking objectively true.  She got the twisties 3 years ago.  As someone that competed in gymnastics from ages 8-15, that’s a real thing.  It doesn’t reduce her accomplishments.  
 

Historically relative to all past competitors she has dominated Olympics and world championships in a way that hasn’t even been approached.  And she is 27 which is insane. 
 

Fucking. DT, man.  Jesus. 

[Bevo 13436]

14 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Anyone that doesn’t think SB is the greatest ever is a fucking idiot.  It’s fucking objectively true.  She got the twisties 3 years ago.  As someone that competed in gymnastics from ages 8-15, that’s a real thing.  It doesn’t reduce her accomplishments.  
 

Historically relative to all past competitors she has dominated Olympics and world championships in a way that hasn’t even been approached.  And she is 27 which is insane. 
 

Fucking. DT, man.  Jesus. 

 

Nadia Comăneci is the best of all time. How old are you?

 

['stache 21520]

I guess if you're going to lose at the Olympics, having your big ol' hog broadcast across the internet would probably lead to some decent consolation.

 

[A-Tex Devil 2412]

39 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

Nadia Comăneci is the best of all time. How old are you?

 

Because she got a 10 in 1976 on a routine that wouldn’t get close to that now?

Please.  Simone has won more, more often, against more countries that are performing at a high level than Nadia ever did.  It’s not close.

It’s like saying Bob Cousy was better than Jordan  

 

 

 

[Bevo 13436]

2 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

She got the twisties 3 years ago.  As someone that competed in gymnastics from ages 8-15, that’s a real thing.  It doesn’t reduce her accomplishments.  
 

Fucking. DT, man.  Jesus. 

 

Of course I know the twisties are a real thing. I called in sick twice with them just last week.

 

1 hour ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Because she got a 10 in 1976 on a routine that wouldn’t get close to that now?

Please.  Simone has won more, more often, against more countries that are performing at a high level than Nadia ever did.  It’s not close.

It’s like saying Bob Cousy Olga Korbut was better than Jordan.

 

Because she was the best ever and changed the sport. And after that perfect 10, she had 6 more in the Montreal Olympics that year. The scoreboard wasn't even programmed to go up that high. And she did it yips and twisties free and never wore a Goat necklace or handed out Goat stuffed animals or acted like an entitled douche.

 

[Underdog 28117]

Yeah, Nadia was good even got her own theme music… 

 

[Hitch 50]

She’s an asshole, but she’s our asshole. 

[Willfully Horn 7854]

I love Simone Biles and am surprised to learn other folks don’t. I don’t get @Bevo’s beef. I remember Olga and Nadia, et al. Biles is in another universe.

[mdmost 42316]

10 minutes ago, Hitch said:

She’s an asshole, but she’s our asshole. 

Whereas Bevo is just an asshole. 

[Bevo 13436]

29 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

I love Simone Biles and am surprised to learn other folks don’t. I don’t get @Bevo’s beef. I remember Olga and Nadia, et al. Biles is in another universe.

Team Suni Lee.

[Willfully Horn 7854]

3 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Team Suni Lee.

Okay, I am a fan of her, too.

Edited August 4 by Willfully Horn

[A-Tex Devil 2412]

Yeah, if you want to say Comaneci was the most important women's gymnast I wouldn't argue.  But her "reign" was like 4 years, and I'm not sure she won anything other than 1976.  Perhaps she got robbed of the all around in 1980 given it was in Moscow, but she wasn't the best performer on her team in 1979 world championships when they won the gold.  The fact that these women are competing into their mid to late 20s now and doing things the teenagers in the 70s, 80s, and 90s wouldn't dream of says a lot about both the competition that Biles has to face vs. what was basically USSR or Romania back then, and their overall talent.   

So most important, sure.  But Biles longevity, results vs. her peers, and sheer amount of competition are *objectively* well beyond what Korbut or Comaneci accomplished. 

[BurntEyes 5629]

You folks are comparing apples and oranges. The medical aspects including diet, exercise training, physiology and anatomy destroy the tops things from 40 years ago. I was snow skiing 12 weeks after hip replacement surgery and im a 50 something non-athelete. Then there myriad of other items in addition to health aspects including massive advances in science and technology allowing for study of specific aspects of all sports motions not just gymnastics.

Comparing Nadia to Simone is just silly. 

I get that perhaps you don't like her specific brand of "self-promotion", but to say she's any more self promoting that Jordan, Air Jordan, among the biggest self promoters of all time... is just stupid and/or sexist.

You can dislike her brand but you had best dislike similar brands or it's dishonest and hypocritical.

You can take issue with her medical problems last Olympics, but at least recognize that it was a MEDICAL issue. It's absolutely unbelievable to me how 3rd world the US in general and many US citizens still are when it comes to mental health. You'd think all the shootings would have made a dent in the 1950s mindset on mental health. Fuck sake.

Whether you take issue with an athletes health issues or their particular brand of self promotion is irrelevant when determining the level of success ON the field. 

Deon Sanders drove me nuts with his off field antics and his brand of defense frustrated me. Be damn if I didn't want him playing for my team. Jordan, same. 

If the off field behavior doesn't hurt or endanger others, and is just annoying don't hate the player, hate the game. Because, as a great fictional character and a game creator motto once said, "It's in the game."

Biles IS one of the best ever, quite likely the best.

Hate her style off the mat if you please, but hating on her athletic ability or achievements is just fucking stupid.

Edited August 5 by BurntEyes

[Steel Shank 9330]

[aggie08 20343]

14 hours ago, Bevo said:

never wore a Goat necklace or handed out Goat stuffed animals or acted like an entitled douche.

Yes, how unbecoming of a professional athlete to want to stick it to her detractors and rub her success in the faces of the pundits and talking heads who have spent 3 years dunking on and mansplaining her lowest moment. You never see that kind of pettiness from all-time greats.

[mdmost 42316]

[Deej 76156]

On 8/3/2024 at 5:32 PM, YGIFS said:

that's faster than most of us can sprint

Do you even know where you are posting? Everybody here runs elite 40 times. 

[Bevo 13436]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Yes, how unbecoming of a professional athlete to want to stick it to her detractors and rub her success in the faces of the pundits and talking heads who have spent 3 years dunking on and mansplaining her lowest moment. You never see that kind of pettiness from all-time greats.

 

You sure have invested a lot in trying to get me to change my opinion. I get it - You love her. I don't. Not everyone has to agree. I'm fine with that.

[YGIFS 19445]

39 minutes ago, Deej said:

Do you even know where you are posting? Everybody here runs elite 40 times. 

What'dya wanna bet I can vault over them mountains over there?  Man, if coach had just put me, we'd have won gold.

-Uncle 'Surly' Rico

 

Shaq was barely in his 20's when he had "The World Is Mine" tattoo'd on his arm.  Remember all those interviews where Gretzsky  kept telling them, "Please, don't call me 'The Great One', I prefer Wayne."  I don't.  Every other white tennis champion from the 70's through the 2000's couldn't shut up about being the greatest ever.  Remind me of the times Woods & Nicholaus downplayed the debate of who was the greatest ever.  Neither made any money off that friendly ribbing, nah.  Clemens, much as I loved him growing up, would tell anybody with a microphone he'd be dominant in any era without steroids.  Same with Lance.  

Simone's been shit on by 40% of her country, not a huge deal if she wants to wear a necklace every now and again.  Next time you're running at 18mph, achieving a level over twice your height, and allow your C2-C7 to play accordion while absorbing the impact because you went 'night-night' for a split second up there, you can lecture us on what it's like to quit on 'Murica or your team.  There are millions of people every day in this country ready to quite on the concept of America, as we know it.  Simone.  Is not one of those people. 

[elguapo 4552]

On 8/2/2024 at 12:06 PM, Bevo said:

 

She has the likeability of Lance Armstrong. She fell, lost her confidence and quit on her team so, she is like the anti-Michael Jordan. She has zero humility. And she is from Columbus - OhiO.

[aggie08 20343]

5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

You sure have invested a lot in trying to get me to change my opinion. I get it - You love her. I don't. Not everyone has to agree. I'm fine with that.

I don't give two shits about her. These are my only posts about her since Tokyo.

You don't have to like her, that's fine. But when you say stupid shit to justify it, expect to get called out for it.

[elguapo 4552]

[ChickenSandwich 9760]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Yes, how unbecoming of a professional athlete to want to stick it to her detractors and rub her success in the faces of the pundits and talking heads who have spent 3 years dunking on and mansplaining her lowest moment. You never see that kind of pettiness from all-time greats.

Part of being the GOAT is being hated as much as you are loved. Many hated MJ when he was blasting their favorite teams, same for Shaq, Kobe, KD, Lebron etc. Most of that passes after retirement 
 

 

[Bevo 13436]

16 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I don't give two shits about her. These are my only posts about her since Tokyo.

You don't have to like her, that's fine. But when you say stupid shit to justify it, expect to get called out for it.

 

Oh, you mean like you must be racist if you don't like her - Because that is what started the conversation. And then you follow it up with

Quote

Yes, how unbecoming of a professional athlete to want to stick it to her detractors and rub her success in the faces of the pundits and talking heads who have spent 3 years dunking on and mansplaining her lowest moment. You never see that kind of pettiness from all-time greats.

 

And don't get that some people just don't like cocky, narcissistic fools who have no sense of humility. But, I do think the press has played a role. Muhammed Ali was entertaining in his cockiness. The media pretty much hid Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan. With Simone Biles, it was on display for everyone to see. Meanwhile, Suni Lee who took gold in 2020 over Simone Biles and bronze this year had to take a backseat - This is after quitting the sport in 2023 due to two incurable kidney diseases including CKD. That to me is more indicative of a GOAT.

[Chopper 16339]

17 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Muhammed Ali was entertaining in his cockiness. The media pretty much hid Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan. With Simone Biles, it was on display for everyone to see. Meanwhile, Suni Lee who took gold in 2020 over Simone Biles and bronze this year had to take a backseat - This is after quitting the sport in 2023 due to two incurable kidney diseases including CKD. That to me is more indicative of a GOAT.

Dude, you are out of your mind. Are you on a bender because your wife/gf/bf just left you for another, or are you simply a racist, misogynist asshole? 

[mdmost 42316]

God, she's so arrogant and shows bad sportsmanship....

 

['stache 21520]

Yeah, I don’t get at all the “arrogant lack of humility” bs. Sounds like something you see if you already dislike her for another reason. There’s about 40% of the country that hates her for really obvious illegitimate reasons. Fair or not, if you’re going to be vocal with hate for her, the default is that it’s likely for the same reasons. 

[huge 3774]

Ok if you don't like her.  But to say she is anything other than the best female gymnast of all time is waterheaded stupidity.  Or how about this, the most highly decorated gymnast in the most competitive timeframe in history and it is a fucking boatrace of ridiculous proportions.

[Brisketexan 103515]

4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

God, she's so arrogant and shows bad sportsmanship....

 

Yeah, we watched the bars competition this weekend, and Simone was shown in the stands several times sincerely and visibly cheering for the other gymnasts (not just Americans).

I can see not being in love with her (maybe you're not a big gymnastics fan.  I mean, I'm not.  I dig it at the Olympics, and that's about it).  But I don't get the hate.  She had a legit mental health issue that didn't just affect her ability to win, it put her in danger (flipping your ass 12 feet in the air when you are at a higher risk of landing on your head or neck isn't "I just don't feel like competing" -- it's a lot of "I don't feel like risking paralysis or death").  A mental health condition is a HEALTH condition.  We've seen countless athletes sidelined by a bum knee or muscle pull or whatnot....health is health.  Shit, if anything, some praise is due to her for reminding us that mental health IS health.  

She's been supportive of her teammates, and her competitors.  And through it all, when she competes, she racks up medals - more than anyone else in all time.  By an OBJECTIVE measure, she is the greatest....of all time.

People hating on Simone have other issues.  Most of those issues are apparent, when you see where on the spectrum that hate comes from.  You are known by the company you keep.

[wildcat09 28485]

On 8/3/2024 at 7:26 PM, 4th&Five said:

His claim to fame occurred in 1997? He’d been basically a household name for 15 years by then. 

Fucking Space Jam came out before then. 

[Chopper 16339]

I found this interesting.