[Special Moderation] Why I'm excited to vote Republican this cycle.

[DigglerontheHoof 21254]

12 minutes ago, Horn75 said:

You’re a piece of shit

MAGA projecting….for the millionth time.

[TwiceHorn 31539]

8 hours ago, B00M said:

Is there any chance the federal government via the DOE will or cannstep in and force Texas to modify the recapture scheme? It’s been an obvious problem for decades now. 

No.  Recapture is based on a right to equal education financing found in the Texas Constitution that SCOTUS ruled does not exist in the US Constitution, as argued by "our own" Charles Alan Wright.

Ironically, it was an attempt to equalize funding between property- and revenue-rich districts and property- and revenue-poor districts.  Which is nice in theory, but in operation not so much.  I'm not going to say that it's an example of why government always fucks up, but it is an example of what happens when you attempt too much "do-gooding" all at once.  A more incremental change there would probably have been good.  See, there's the benign conservative coming through.

[Chuckie Finster 22748]

16 minutes ago, Horn75 said:

You’re a piece of shit

Hey man, I didn't say I AGREED with it, just a simple observation of what is (and isn't) being included in the national conversation.

[Captainant 27797]

16 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

For instance, the “Trump is better for my Taxes” paradox. If you are making less than $300k in income in Texas, aren’t self employed, and own a home, Trump’s “tax cuts” were probably objectively worse given the SALT caps.  

Yo, this is me/my family. The SALT caps plus Texas constantly raising taxes via bullshit magical property valuations has resulted in a higher nominal tax rate for me

[royiv 9364]

12 hours ago, B00M said:

So many people here were 90%+ republican voters prior to trump’s dismantling of everything they once stood for. Definitely just diehard leftist libruhls

I voted Republican in every presidential election until Obama’s second term. I look back and can’t believe that I voted for a ticket that had Sarah Palin on it. Embarrassing in retrospect. I can’t believe my now wife (PNW liberal from Portland) continued to date me. 

[royiv 9364]

1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

My high school  AP History teacher used to call me Alex P. Keaton. 

Lol. I was also called this growing up.

[wildcat09 29410]

54 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I find it more telling that he hasn't answered the questions put to him by Dbeasy and me, both former Republicans.

Telling of what, I don't know.

It's telling of this:

 

[Pam Cummings 9678]

28 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Yo, this is me/my family. The SALT caps plus Texas constantly raising taxes via bullshit magical property valuations has resulted in a higher nominal tax rate for me

People are either really bad at math or just say things because they think they sound good. "We don't have an income tax" sounds good until you realize that the fuckers are going to just rape you on property taxes. It's regressive and hurts middle class people.

Edited October 23 by Pam Cummings

[Hefeweizen 5333]

Reading this thread is just depressing as hell.  Thanks Obama.

[GhostOfTomJoad 9356]

Yo, this is me/my family. The SALT caps plus Texas constantly raising taxes via bullshit magical property valuations has resulted in a higher nominal tax rate for me

A good friend of mine who's a lifelong republican and gladly voted for Trump in 2016 pulled the trigger for Biden in 2020 because A) he was tired of the non-stop bullshit, and B) as a salesman who works 100% on commission & itemizes everything on his taxes he discovered that Trump's tax policies had a massive, painful impact on him. Trump's policies contributed directly to him delaying his retirement from 2019 to 2024.

[Bozo_Casanova 26570]

35 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

B) as a salesman who works 100% on commission & itemizes everything on his taxes he discovered that Trump's tax policies had a massive, painful impact on him. Trump's policies contributed directly to him delaying his retirement from 2019 to 2024.

I know a lot of guys in this exact situation. 

[B00M 6467]

2 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'd still like for you to explain why you think so little of Aggie, to the point you'd use them as an insult, when politically you agree with them 100% on everything. What does that say about you?

[royiv 9364]

A common thread amongst Trump voters, as reinforced by this thread, is a complete lack of critical thinking.

[Sheep Have Wool 1053]

1 hour ago, A-Tex Devil said:

So while I disagree with a lot of what Stros wrote, and I appreciate the effort, I’d like to understand how Trump is going to improve any of that and how Harris is going to make any of that worse.  A feeling?   This is the issue.  Voters don’t understand how their pet issues get addressed and how and what POTUS can or plans to do to address them.  It’s “democrats bad for economy and border” “republicans good”.  Based on what exactly?  Exactly.

Tribalism, and because human brains are stupid.

I applaud Stros for his answers, and for being willing to engage, even after he's taken a fair bit of shit. His answers seem a lot like my parents' answers, and his lack of response to some of the pointed questions is also similar. I think he's answering in good faith, but I suspect that those answers are mostly there to paper over the cognitive dissonance of potentially voting for someone who, deep down, he thinks would make a shitty president. That shitty potential president has an R next to his name, though, and Stros probably has a long history of being a part of Team R, along with peers/friends/family. A vote for Harris would be voting against his tribe, and brains are excellent at finding reasons to do things to avoid painful dissonance.

Stros, I assume that you think of yourself as a rational person who looks for truth, even if it might feel uncomfortable. I invite you to ask yourself a few questions:

• It seems like you consider yourself a high-information voter. Do you consume "left leaning" viewpoints as often as "normal" or "right leaning" ones? How do you know which are which?
• Do you know what Team R propaganda/misinformation looks like? What's an example? How do you avoid falling victim to it?
• What piece of information would cause you to change your mind about your vote? You mentioned the economy and being willing to vote for Harris in '28 if things looked good in that regard, but people are notorious for delaying painful decisions while they "wait for new information." Both candidates have a history - which better supports a view that they would create a stronger economy? Would you be willing to go explore multiple, independent opinions on that?

I'm not expecting answers to these in public, but if you're really interested in looking for truth, these questions are worth thinking about for more than the time it takes to dismiss them. And, to be clear, there are some left leaning posters here who should definitely also be asking themselves these questions, just pointed the other way, especially that one about propaganda and misinformation.

Again, Stros, thanks for participating.

[SydneyCarton 48198]

Just randomly circling back to throw into the pile that I was a registered republican until 2016, when I didn't vote for president. Hated Hillary, didn't understand the hatred of Obama I started seeing, thought Trump was bad, bad fucking news. 

Around 2019 I started reading and posting here to try and gather information about Democratic candidates and policies. Turns out I was an active voter most of my life, but a really, really fucking low information voter. 

[royiv 9364]

12 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Turns out I was an active voter most of my life, but a really, really fucking low information voter. 

This describes me to a “T” up until a decade or so ago. I voted R because I thought the party aligned with my economic interests and I bought the party line of government staying out of our lives. 

Edited October 23 by royiv

[DDD Dad 14351]

One of the more frustrating things I've seen, heard, and read through the current campaign season is how many voters blame Harris and Democrats for the current high cost of living and effects of inflation. 

Sure, we've been in an inflationary cycle as a result of and following the pandemic. The Fed largely has addressed through interest rates leading us hopefully to a soft landing, albeit at the expense of wage earners with limited impact on the investment class.  How any of that falls at the feet of the current administration baffles me.  Neither the original Trump administration nor the current Biden administration can be faulted for the inflationary effect of global supply chain issues from the pandemic. 

“In my view, neither Trump nor Biden is to blame for the high inflation,” “The blame goes to the pandemic and the Russian war in Ukraine.” Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics.

“We only have to look at the still high inflation rates in most other advanced economies to see that most of this inflation period was really about global trends ... rather than about the specific policy actions of any given government (though they did of course play some role),” Stephen Brown, deputy chief North America economist at Capital Economics.

A Pew Research Center analysis of data from 44 advanced economies finds that, in nearly all of them, consumer prices have risen substantially since pre-pandemic times. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/06/15/in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world-inflation-is-high-and-getting-higher/

Both administrations approved and Congress enacted stimulus legislation, as well as tariffs from both that have had inflationary effects.  However, even with all of that spending the US's inflation rate is basically in the middle of the pack with the rest of the developed world.

But Trump will solve inflation.  OK.

Edited October 23 by DDD Dad

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

3 hours ago, Horn75 said:

You’re a piece of shit

CF isn't running for president. The guy who mocked the hammer attack on Paul Pelosi and refused to follow President Biden's lead renouncing political violence and who you support is. 

[Brisketexan 105383]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I know a lot of guys in this exact situation. 

And they are mostly fucking dumbasses who weren't paying attention to the facts that actually mattered.

I should know, plenty of times in my life I've been a dumbass who wasn't paying attention to the facts that actually mattered, so I know exactly what such dumbassery looks like.

And yeah, what DDD Dad said above is fucking infuriating.  ALL Western economies experienced SIMULTANEOUS inflation, GLOBALLY.  No official in any one country - ours or any other - caused inflation to go up, nor caused it to moderate in the past couple of years.  It was a byproduct of the global economy in light of the pandemic and supply chain contraction then expansion, etc.  And it was largely managed by standard tools (interest rate hikes set by central banks, which again generally are not controlled by a country's president/PM).  

The idiotic, simple-minded tendency of people to say "economic thing X happened while person Y was POTUS means person Y made it happen" is maddening.....but we aren't going to change it.  You can't fix stupid.  You have to figure out how to harness stupid.  The Republicans are much better at it these days.

[B00M 6467]

Is the Venn diagram of people willing to thoughtfully engage in online debate and people voting for Trump essentially 2 separate circles? Are the modern MAGA republican thought leaders condemned to sites like texags and 4chan or what?

[Captainant 27797]

18 minutes ago, B00M said:

Is the Venn diagram of people willing to thoughtfully engage in online debate and people voting for Trump essentially 2 separate circles? Are the modern MAGA republican thought leaders condemned to sites like texags and 4chan or what?

Considering how much qanon was no shit driving US policy, you're not that far off from reality

[A-Tex Devil 2463]

I’ve had this guy, Destiny, pushed to me on social media.  He is some former gamer that has become a Democrat social media influencer.  
 

He is constantly debating Trump supporters.  He’s really, really good at attacking these guys with facts - like Jordan Peterson and their ilk, and just shutting them down.  When I watch these debates, Destiny is destroying them, but the MAGAts don’t see it.  They somehow think their dude is getting one over.    It’s fucking cognitive dissonance combined with stubbornness.  Two realities.  

[Goredho 17421]

10 minutes ago, B00M said:

Is the Venn diagram of people willing to thoughtfully engage in online debate and people voting for Trump essentially 2 separate circles? Are the modern MAGA republican thought leaders condemned to sites like texags and 4chan or what?

Well, as someone who occasionally posts against the grain here, it can feel pretty pointless.  You can't finish a reply before there are 10+ more posts calling you a dumbass.  I applaud @Stros121 for giving it a go yesterday, but I can't blame him or anyone else for tapping out as a CR tackling dummy.  It's fucking exhausting and ultimately pretty pointless.

<Goredho readies himself for the 10+ posts calling him a dumbass>

[Chuckie Finster 22748]

For the "concerned about political persecution" crowd:

 

 

[aggie08 21539]

3 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

For the "concerned about political persecution" crowd:

 

 

Sure, but that's just talk. We only choose to take the things he says seriously that we want to take seriously. The rest is just bluster!

[A-Tex Devil 2463]

3 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Well, as someone who occasionally posts against the grain here, it can feel pretty pointless.  You can't finish a reply before there are 10+ more posts calling you a dumbass.  I applaud @Stros121 for giving it a go yesterday, but I can't blame him or anyone else for tapping out as a CR tackling dummy.  It's fucking exhausting and ultimately pretty pointless.

<Goredho readies himself for the 10+ posts calling him a dumbass>

While I applaud Stros and you for stepping in, it’s fair to challenge why he thinks Trump will be good for most if not all of his laundry list of issues.  Combine that with the fact that Trump is a felon, and hopefully people understand why it is mind boggling that folks want to vote for this guy unless they are some combo of greedy/selfish/low info/racist and I’ll add single position abortion voter.  And I think it’s scarier to a lot of us that >40% of the country probably falls into that bucket.  

[aggie08 21539]

10 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Well, as someone who occasionally posts against the grain here, it can feel pretty pointless.  You can't finish a reply before there are 10+ more posts calling you a dumbass.  I applaud @Stros121 for giving it a go yesterday, but I can't blame him or anyone else for tapping out as a CR tackling dummy.  It's fucking exhausting and ultimately pretty pointless.

<Goredho readies himself for the 10+ posts calling him a dumbass>

It's a chicken or the egg situation. Absolutely, a pro-Trump or pro-GOP opinion is going to get jumped on, even if it's logical and well-sourced. BUT how many logical, well-sourced Trump positions are being put out there? Did the dog-piling start before or after almost every GOP talking point became conspiracy-laden, fear-based, alternative "news" horseshit? I've only been on this forum since Nov 2020, so I can't answer that.

[Goredho 17421]

I am not saying anyone's views shouldn't be challenged, but when your views are challenged by twenty other posters in the time it took to take a good shit, why bother?  Only bots and trolls can handle the firehose.

Very little genuine discourse of opposing views happens here.  If we want to genuinely engage with others of opposing views, come to an understanding and perhaps even change some minds, we would be much better off engaging and challenging the people we know in our proximal reality.  The neighbor with the Trump sign in their yard, the friend you had silenced on social media, the MAGA family member who you dread seeing at Thanksgiving.

[A-Tex Devil 2463]

Just now, Goredho said:

I am not saying anyone's views shouldn't be challenged, but when your views are challenged by twenty other posters in the time it took to take a good shit, why bother?  Only bots and trolls can handle the firehose.

Very little genuine discourse of opposing views happens here.  If we want to genuinely engage with others of opposing views, come to an understanding and perhaps even change some minds, we would be much better off engaging and challenging the people we know in our proximal reality.  The neighbor with the Trump sign in their yard, the friend you had silenced on social media, the MAGA family member who you dread seeing at Thanksgiving.

Fair.  I am doing that within my family with small success.   This place is for venting, for the most part. 

[TwiceHorn 31539]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

And they are mostly fucking dumbasses who weren't paying attention to the facts that actually mattered.

I should know, plenty of times in my life I've been a dumbass who wasn't paying attention to the facts that actually mattered, so I know exactly what such dumbassery looks like.

And yeah, what DDD Dad said above is fucking infuriating.  ALL Western economies experienced SIMULTANEOUS inflation, GLOBALLY.  No official in any one country - ours or any other - caused inflation to go up, nor caused it to moderate in the past couple of years.  It was a byproduct of the global economy in light of the pandemic and supply chain contraction then expansion, etc.  And it was largely managed by standard tools (interest rate hikes set by central banks, which again generally are not controlled by a country's president/PM).  

The idiotic, simple-minded tendency of people to say "economic thing X happened while person Y was POTUS means person Y made it happen" is maddening.....but we aren't going to change it.  You can't fix stupid.  You have to figure out how to harness stupid.  The Republicans are much better at it these days.

Well, Republicans are the party of "businessmen."  Turns out that means they're more likely to fuck you than run things efficiently and let you benefit from it. EDIT TO ADD:  unless you're a major shareholder or someone else who can "do unto them."  If you're a little guy like labor, or a bystander who could be hurt or helped by your actions (environmental for example), they're going to fuck you whenever they can, or if not actively fuck, give you as little benefit as they can possibly get away with.

Took me a bit to figure that out.  I think it started happening during the Clinton administration.

Edited October 23 by TwiceHorn

[B00M 6467]

50 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

It's a chicken or the egg situation. Absolutely, a pro-Trump or pro-GOP opinion is going to get jumped on, even if it's logical and well-sourced. BUT how many logical, well-sourced Trump positions are being put out there? Did the dog-piling start before or after almost every GOP talking point became conspiracy-laden, fear-based, alternative "news" horseshit? I've only been on this forum since Nov 2020, so I can't answer that.

After. 

During the Obama admin the CR was probably 2:1 or 3:2 Dem:Rep … you’d see actual point, counter-point debates. Thought provoking shit from both sides. Did they get heated? Of course, but there was logical, sourced, substance. That steadily went to zero during trump’s time in office. It’s exhausting to defend the indefensible. Eventually even the most diehard devils advocates were gone and we were left with the modern CR “circle jerk” that MAGA supporters can excuse themselves from participating in simply because they’re just so out numbered. 

[B00M 6467]

42 minutes ago, Goredho said:

we would be much better off engaging and challenging the people we know in our proximal reality.  The neighbor with the Trump sign in their yard, the friend you had silenced on social media, the MAGA family member who you dread seeing at Thanksgiving.

I’ve done this a lot this past year. In return, I’d get sent conspiratorial tweets from accounts that look like Russian bots as proof. Or videos from Tucker Carlson. Or told to open my eyes and stop believing the mainstream narrative. I’ve had no choice but to give up and hope they become more receptive once Trump loses a 2nd time. 

[Stros121 4]

I don’t have time to go thru answer all these question. Can y’all make one post?

how many of you have a wife/husband, kids? 
 

married with 3 kids. 2f in college, 1m hs. 
 

The question I was asked on who the left are? I was equating the Democratic Party to The Left. 
 

I consume all forms of media outlets to get my information. I read post in The CR daily. 

 

 

 

[Snake Diggity 4627]

8 minutes ago, Stros121 said:

I don’t have time to go thru answer all these question. Can y’all make one post?

how many of you have a wife/husband, kids? 
 

married with 3 kids. 2f in college, 1m hs. 
 

The question I was asked on who the left are? I was equating the Democratic Party to The Left. 
 

I consume all forms of media outlets to get my information. I read post in The CR daily. 

 

 

 

More posrep as I think you are actually engaging in good faith.  I think it sucks that probably 25%+ (maybe a LOT more) of the football board are Trump supporters but <5 of yall have waded into the thread, getting inundated with replies from opposing views.

How firm of a Trump supporter are you?  From your prior posts, you’re an anti-DEI pro-choice voter focused on the economy and the border.  If someone were able to convince you that Harris was better for both our economy and border, would that be enough to change your vote?  Or is the anti-DEI piece the linchpin?  Are the other factors (character, criminal history, rhetoric, etc.) meaningless to you?

Edited October 23 by Snake Diggity

[SydneyCarton 48198]

9 minutes ago, B00M said:

After. 

During the Obama admin the CR was probably 2:1 or 3:2 Dem:Rep … you’d see actual point, counter-point debates. Thought provoking shit from both sides. Did they get heated? Of course, but there was logical, sourced, substance. That steadily went to zero during trump’s time in office. It’s exhausting to defend the indefensible. Eventually even the most diehard devils advocates were gone and we were left with the modern CR “circle jerk” that MAGA supporters can excuse themselves from participating in simply because they’re just so out numbered. 

 

51 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I am not saying anyone's views shouldn't be challenged, but when your views are challenged by twenty other posters in the time it took to take a good shit, why bother?  Only bots and trolls can handle the firehose.

Very little genuine discourse of opposing views happens here.  If we want to genuinely engage with others of opposing views, come to an understanding and perhaps even change some minds, we would be much better off engaging and challenging the people we know in our proximal reality.  The neighbor with the Trump sign in their yard, the friend you had silenced on social media, the MAGA family member who you dread seeing at Thanksgiving.

The "modern" cloak room, which is the only one I've ever known, resembles this thread a lot. I'll give 'stros credit for continuing to come back and post here, but there are a LOT of pretty basic quetsions he's ignored and skipped entirely, back from the beginning before he got inundantated. Because the answer are obvious and don't fit a narrative that person has constructed. As Boom said, no one wants to waste time defending the indefensible. Those people left becuase they couldn't answer basic questions. In my experience with "real world" people, they're no more interested in answering questions honestly than they are online. 

10 minutes ago, Stros121 said:

I don’t have time to go thru answer all these question. Can y’all make one post?

how many of you have a wife/husband, kids? 
 

married with 3 kids. 2f in college, 1m hs. 
 

The question I was asked on who the left are? I was equating the Democratic Party to The Left. 
 

I consume all forms of media outlets to get my information. I read post in The CR daily. 

 

 

 

Married almost a decade, 1 kid in 1st grade, about to turn 45 years of age. 

[Brian Fantana 6690]

1 hour ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I’ve had this guy, Destiny, pushed to me on social media.  He is some former gamer that has become a Democrat social media influencer.  
 

He is constantly debating Trump supporters.  He’s really, really good at attacking these guys with facts - like Jordan Peterson and their ilk, and just shutting them down.  When I watch these debates, Destiny is destroying them, but the MAGAts don’t see it.  They somehow think their dude is getting one over.    It’s fucking cognitive dissonance combined with stubbornness.  Two realities.  

This is a topic for a different thread, but Destiny is a total piece of shit. Before you get sucked into his vortex, you should dig a little deeper into his background. He is very liberal on a surface level, but has done and said some very bad things (there is a reason he is permanently banned from Twitch, etc).

e: Credit where credit is due, he is very good at debating MAGA dipshits, but that's all he is. He is the biggest debatelord alive and the lane in which he is a positive force is very narrow.

Edited October 23 by Brian Fantana

[Brisketexan 105383]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

Well, as someone who occasionally posts against the grain here, it can feel pretty pointless.  You can't finish a reply before there are 10+ more posts calling you a dumbass.  I applaud @Stros121 for giving it a go yesterday, but I can't blame him or anyone else for tapping out as a CR tackling dummy.  It's fucking exhausting and ultimately pretty pointless.

<Goredho readies himself for the 10+ posts calling him a dumbass>

How about if we just have ONE post calling you a dumbass, and then everyone who wants to can posrep it?  We need to get more efficient around here, and I appreciate you calling our attention to that.

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

If we want to genuinely engage with others of opposing views, come to an understanding and perhaps even change some minds, we would be much better off engaging and challenging the people we know in our proximal reality.  The neighbor with the Trump sign in their yard, the friend you had silenced on social media, the MAGA family member who you dread seeing at Thanksgiving.

Counterpoint: 

 

 

Evidence only makes them angry.  Any fact or piece of evidence presented is immediately dismissed as "fake news," or just flat-out ignored.  Trumpism is a cult.  You don't "reason" anyone out of a cult.  Ever.

That's what so many of us are so fucking frustrated about.  We have CHANGED our positions and views over the years, driven by actual evidence and observation of same.  Note the fact that many of the most vociferous haters of Trump and Trumpism on this site were mostly Republican voters for many years.  We saw various pieces of evidence (the open hate machine that was ginned up when America had the audacity to elect a black man president, the continued lies about how "trickle down economics" works even though we have real-world observation of it in action and it plainly does not work, and of course, the indulgence in Trumpism which stands against literally everything we stood for our whole lives (we grew up making fun of "papers please" authoritarian countries, and now Trumpists want us to lead the way, etc.), and we altered our path accordingly.  We've realized that there were things (often many, many things) that we were just wrong about.  Experience and evidence caused us to go "well shit....I was wrong about that."  That's what an intelligent and honest person does.

Many of us also still have issues with the progressive extreme element of the Democratic party (it's far from a dominant element, but it exists).  We're relatively centrist at heart (although in 2024 America, anything near "centrist" is derided as "leftist commie libtard" -- anything that is not 100% fealty to MAGA is deemed as such).  So, today, centrist means "strongly opposed to the GQP," that's definitely true.  But that doesn't make centrists strident leftists.  It makes MAGA fucking insane fascists and fascist enablers.  And I goddamned wish the legacy media would call out that obvious truth.

Edited October 23 by Brisketexan

[mchookem 16398]

44 minutes ago, B00M said:

It’s exhausting to defend the indefensible. Eventually even the most diehard devils advocates were gone and we were left with the modern CR “circle jerk” that MAGA supporters can excuse themselves from participating in simply because they’re just so out numbered. 

Quote

there are a LOT of pretty basic quetsions he's ignored and skipped entirely, back from the beginning before he got inundantated. Because the answer are obvious and don't fit a narrative that person has constructed. As Boom said, no one wants to waste time defending the indefensible.

 

i mean...yeah, it's really no more complicated than that.

there's no actual logic, evidence, or coherent argument to make and literally everybody knows it, including Trump supporters. every interview of supporters at any of his rallys... there's a reason they get the thousand yard stare when asked literally ANY follow-up question about his history, positions, policy, etc - there.is.no.answer. and they know it.

if i held a position i knew i could not actually defend - and i knew i was going to be presented with evidence that specifically contradicted my position - well i wouldn't want to put myself in the position of having it questioned either!

ETA: better yet...if i held a position that was enthusiastically supported by the vast majority of fucking texags...i'd consider self-commitment. i mean the cognitive dissonance is truly astounding!

 

as for 'not fitting the narrative that person has constructed'...it all goes back to the amygdala. it's pretty easy to understand... but you have to have the capacity for critical thought. 

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

 

Edited October 23 by mchookem

[Born to Run 6569]

44 minutes ago, B00M said:

After. 

During the Obama admin the CR was probably 2:1 or 3:2 Dem:Rep … you’d see actual point, counter-point debates. Thought provoking shit from both sides. Did they get heated? Of course, but there was logical, sourced, substance. That steadily went to zero during trump’s time in office. It’s exhausting to defend the indefensible. Eventually even the most diehard devils advocates were gone and we were left with the modern CR “circle jerk” that MAGA supporters can excuse themselves from participating in simply because they’re just so out numbered. 

The Overton window shifted so far it's kind of hard to have an reasonable debate when the Rights positions are so unreasonable.

We used to legal, but limited abortion, assault weapons bans, fair taxes on corporations and the wealthy etc

Now?

Guns:Carry a military grade weapon down the street or to your state Capitol grounds.

Abortion: Banned no exceptions.

Taxes: Massive cuts for the wealthy.

 

All of these positions are wildly unpopular and impossible to defend.

[Goredho 17421]

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

How about if we just have ONE post calling you a dumbass, and then everyone who wants to can posrep it?  We need to get more efficient around here, and I appreciate you calling our attention to that.

Counterpoint: 

 

 

Evidence only makes them angry.  Any fact or piece of evidence presented is immediately dismissed as "fake news," or just flat-out ignored.  Trumpism is a cult.  You don't "reason" anyone out of a cult.  Ever.

That's what so many of us are so fucking frustrated about.  We have CHANGED our positions and views over the years, driven by actual evidence and observation of same.  Note the fact that many of the most vociferous haters of Trump and Trumpism on this site were mostly Republican voters for many years.  We saw various pieces of evidence (the open hate machine that was ginned up when America had the audacity to elect a black man president, the continued lies about how "trickle down economics" works even though we have real-world observation of it in action and it plainly does not work, and of course, the indulgence in Trumpism which stands against literally everything we stood for our whole lives (we grew up making fun of "papers please" authoritarian countries, and now Trumpists want us to lead the way, etc.), and we altered our path accordingly.  We've realized that there were things (often many, many things) that we were just wrong about.  Experience and evidence caused us to go "well shit....I was wrong about that."  That's what an intelligent and honest person does.

Many of us also still have issues with the progressive extreme element of the Democratic party (it's far from a dominant element, but it exists).  We're relatively centrist at heart (although in 2024 America, anything near "centrist" is derided as "leftist commie libtard" -- anything that is not 100% fealty to MAGA is deemed as such).  So, today, centrist means "strongly opposed to the GQP," that's definitely true.  But that doesn't make centrists strident leftists.  It makes MAGA fucking insane fascists and fascist enablers.  And I goddamned wish the legacy media would call out that obvious truth.

I get the frustration, but not all are unreachable.  You've just quit trying.  You have long viewed anyone who casts an R ballot as part of a homogenous group of lost souls.  Through your lens of fear and anger.  Just like a racist views all blacks through a lens of fear and anger.  Some (most?) are exactly as you depict.  Some are misinformed and open to discussion.  And some have been cut off from any path away from the cult by people like you.  I'm interested in reaching the latter two, as that has the hope to effect change and make my children's world a better place.

When you no longer judge individuals on their own merits and simply judge them by their membership to group X, you've become exactly what you abhor.  As a former Republican, you no doubt know people in the real world who have yet to migrate to your conclusions.  I would encourage you to reach out to them in the weeks leading up to Election Day.

[sidis 9832]

sydney is exactly correct.

people like stros think it is not all that conspicuous when they say some unbelievably stupid shit and then when respectfully asked to answer a follow up question, they just ignore it over and over since they have no useful reply that does not entirely betray that they are idiots or awful people. stros said that trump hasn't put any of his political enemies in jail, unlike the left as one of his fundamental bases for his support of trump.

to any rational person, that is an utterly idiotic statement that is informed by propaganda consumed from a constant barrage of bullshit. it is not worth anyone's time to engage in an exchange premised on such an obviously stupid thing to say. despite that, sydney has continually followed up in a patient way and while stros has made tens of posts since then, he thinks it is not conspicuous that he is purposefully evading it to anyone with the perception of a child what is going on.

yet we should patronizingly entertain this indefensible bullshit as "legitimate discourse" and applaud stros for his unwillingness to actually engage instead of just scattershooting nonsense like "I honestly think Donald Trump loves America, and wants the best for all Americans," "He hasn’t put any of his political enemies in jail, unlike the left," "DEI is the death of America."

Edited October 23 by sidis

[GenXer 3028]

2 hours ago, Goredho said:

Well, as someone who occasionally posts against the grain here, it can feel pretty pointless.  You can't finish a reply before there are 10+ more posts calling you a dumbass.  I applaud @Stros121 for giving it a go yesterday, but I can't blame him or anyone else for tapping out as a CR tackling dummy.  It's fucking exhausting and ultimately pretty pointless.

<Goredho readies himself for the 10+ posts calling him a dumbass>

I won’t call you a dumbass but I liken it to a salmon swimming upstream with bears trying to snatch you along the way. You can make it but the journey ain’t easy.

I started a thread named Insulin in Aug 22. I was pissed about the newly passed Biden insulin cap that was only for the olds because only the olds got it. As a type 1 diabetic since 1987, I have watched the republicans fight hard against any improvement in medical cost or care for my entire voting life. 

The surly liberal cabal (of which I consider myself a member) came at me hard with a few negs thrown in. As I explained my position, personal story, and the rationale for my critique of biden’s bill, the cabal cooled, and I learned about a bill at the federal level (no movement) and a bill in colorado that are doing creative solutions. I text occasionally with my state rep about the colorado bill to see if she can do something like it in texas.

Long story short: make your point with verifiable facts or a genuine story that explains your position, and the cabal may not eat you alive.

 

Oh and…

Edited October 23 by GenXer

[Satchel 6949]

You’d have to know what’s its life to have to attend to aging family members who often just exist in senior care facilities, to truly understand the enormous benefit of KH’s proposal to provide long term in home healthcare for a broader group of seniors.

[Brisketexan 105383]

You’d have to know what’s its life to have to attend to aging family members who often just exist in senior care facilities, to truly understand the enormous benefit of KH’s proposal to provide long term in home healthcare for a broader group of seniors.

Blah blah blah, you sound like a communist who hates America and should leave, libtard!
There. That’s the “honest dialogue” we get from team MAGA. Saved everyone the trouble.

[elfenix 34334]

5 hours ago, Stros121 said:

I don’t have time to go thru answer all these question. Can y’all make one post?

how many of you have a wife/husband, kids? 
 

married with 3 kids. 2f in college, 1m hs. 
 

The question I was asked on who the left are? I was equating the Democratic Party to The Left. 
 

I consume all forms of media outlets to get my information. I read post in The CR daily. 

 

 

 

📸?

[Bozo_Casanova 26570]

8 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

One of the more frustrating things I've seen, heard, and read through the current campaign season is how many voters blame Harris and Democrats for the current high cost of living and effects of inflation. 

Sure, we've been in an inflationary cycle as a result of and following the pandemic. The Fed largely has addressed through interest rates leading us hopefully to a soft landing, albeit at the expense of wage earners with limited impact on the investment class.  How any of that falls at the feet of the current administration baffles me.  Neither the original Trump administration nor the current Biden administration can be faulted for the inflationary effect of global supply chain issues from the pandemic. 

“In my view, neither Trump nor Biden is to blame for the high inflation,” “The blame goes to the pandemic and the Russian war in Ukraine.” Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics.

“We only have to look at the still high inflation rates in most other advanced economies to see that most of this inflation period was really about global trends ... rather than about the specific policy actions of any given government (though they did of course play some role),” Stephen Brown, deputy chief North America economist at Capital Economics.

A Pew Research Center analysis of data from 44 advanced economies finds that, in nearly all of them, consumer prices have risen substantially since pre-pandemic times. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/06/15/in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world-inflation-is-high-and-getting-higher/

Both administrations approved and Congress enacted stimulus legislation, as well as tariffs from both that have had inflationary effects.  However, even with all of that spending the US's inflation rate is basically in the middle of the pack with the rest of the developed world.

But Trump will solve inflation.  OK.

Good post

8 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

The idiotic, simple-minded tendency of people to say "economic thing X happened while person Y was POTUS means person Y made it happen" is maddening.....but we aren't going to change it.  You can't fix stupid.  You have to figure out how to harness stupid.  The Republicans are much better at it these days.

In fairness to them- both parties share one big lie on the economy: that the president has a great deal of control. He does not. Through mostly soft power he can have some level of limited impact on growth on an intermediate basis, and can have a much more substantial and direct negative effect on prices and GDP (through tariffs and other punitive measures) and has almost no meaningful direct near-term impact on the labor economy or the cost of living. 
But obviously both parties pretend they do and maybe their operatives and officials actually believe they are doing more than nibbling at the margins. And of course the media reports it that way because outside of the business press none of them seem to understand even the basics. 
Anyway- TL;DR: it’s not really their fault. They think that because everyone acts like it’s true, in good times and bad.

[Stros121 4]

6 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

More posrep as I think you are actually engaging in good faith.  I think it sucks that probably 25%+ (maybe a LOT more) of the football board are Trump supporters but <5 of yall have waded into the thread, getting inundated with replies from opposing views.

How firm of a Trump supporter are you?  From your prior posts, you’re an anti-DEI pro-choice voter focused on the economy and the border.  If someone were able to convince you that Harris was better for both our economy and border, would that be enough to change your vote?  Or is the anti-DEI piece the linchpin?  Are the other factors (character, criminal history, rhetoric, etc.) meaningless to you?

I’m far from the most polished Trump supporter, in the fact I don’t think he walks on water, and that he gods gift to America. Like said earlier he’s a typical business man that doesn’t like to be told no. I work in the high rise construction industry. Trump reminds me of a lot of these high rolling business owners. Yes they love America not sure why that’s hard to believe. 

My wife says one of great qualities is my  my willingness to forgive. Not sure that’s all that great, to lack the back bone to hate, but I don’t hate anyone. I might disagree, get pissed, but I always give people the benefit of the doubt, at the end of the day. It works for me in my line of work. 
 

Trumps off color comments don’t effect me, never have. 

Yes, I could change my vote/mind about supporting Trump. 
 

DEI is hard to understand in my line of work. You either bust your ass or you don’t work.
 

Tariffs, I’ve read about 50 economists saying that it’s a horrible idea. I’ve also read that it’s a bargaining chip. I also remember 51 high level intelligent officials saying Hunter bidens lap top was fake. 
 

I would change my vote from R to D if the Republican Party removed a elected candidate from the top of the ticket, and replace them with a candidate who didn’t get any votes, and didn’t debate against viable competition. 
 

I went to Acc for 2 years before starting a construction company. I dropped out of school and payed for my wife’s tuition at Texas nursing school. I’m currently putting both my daughters thru nursing and PT school. I spend most evenings working out with a 15u baseball team. 
 

If you want to ask me a question please post it separate from your rant. 

 

 

[Stros121 4]

10 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Just randomly circling back to throw into the pile that I was a registered republican until 2016, when I didn't vote for president. Hated Hillary, didn't understand the hatred of Obama I started seeing, thought Trump was bad, bad fucking news. 

Around 2019 I started reading and posting here to try and gather information about Democratic candidates and policies. Turns out I was an active voter most of my life, but a really, really fucking low information voter. 

What if any conservatives values do you still hold?

[mchookem 16398]

something in there about you being in 'high rise construction' and knowing damn good and well Trump would cheat you out of payment with a giant🖕 if given the opportunity but trusting him anyway...your 'willingness to forgive' will come in handy i guess.

Edited October 24 by mchookem

[Stros121 4]

2 minutes ago, mchookem said:

something in there about you being in 'high rise construction' and knowing damn good and well Trump would cheat you out of payment with a giant🖕 if given the opportunity but trusting him anyway...your 'willingness to forgive' will come in handy i guess.

Thanks, for your opinion.