serious: the hell that i just went through at Georgetown Behavioral Health Institute

[Chopper 17,245]

Just leaving this free link here, from today's NYT https://archive.ph/n7NKM Probably not related to Gtown but...

 

[RockyMountainHighHorn 896]

On 8/7/2024 at 3:59 PM, Derka said:

first off thank you for that, that kind of response/empathy/commiseration means more than you know. and you really pin pointed one of the major issues that most folks don’t think about- my mom, psychiatrist, therapist, and friends all want to help me, and i want to help myself, and these are my options. there are no actual real-time solutions.

my mom is still messed up. just earlier today she was visibly upset and still apologizing to me (of course i’ve told her repeatedly that she was just trying to do what she thought would help me), but she can’t help but see how different i’ve been since i’ve come out of that place, and (at times) she’s still wrought with guilt from her decision to try and help me.

beyond that, a common refrain that i’ve hopelessly/helplessly expressed throughout the years is that, “everyone else who’s sick has a place to go when they get sick- their doctor, a pharmacy, the ER, the hospital- there is something out there that’s designed to take care of them when they get the flu, when their blood sugar drops, when they have an ibs flare up, etc. but i don’t have any such place.” there is no place for people like me to go when i haven’t gotten real sleep in over a month and now my mental illness is “flaring” as i call it. i can either try and ride it out at home/in public where i may genuinely be a threat to myself and others, or i can check myself into some place where ill be taken off my meds, mistreated, neglected, and then released in 7-10 days worse off than i was before. those are my options. 

hinestly, i take great pride in how far i’ve come, as well as the fact that i’ve never quit trying to improve myself and my life, considering what my life has been like, and the obstacles that i still face daily. i really am proud to have grown this much, and it means a lot to me when someone here mentions they’ve noticed. so thank you again for that. 🤘🏼 

I hear you on this. Dm me if you ever need. Have been in that cycle before. 

[bernorange 8,363]

On 8/3/2024 at 1:39 PM, Derka said:

... i developed (acquired?) myoclonic epilepsy:

... and i’ve been on benzos ever since. as you alluded to, i tend to have bad reactions to most drugs, ...

FYI (might be worth discussing with your doctor):

https://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/pages/piracetam/

[Derka 6,353]

i appreciate you both, and i am going to talk to my doctor about that myoclonic jerks treatment.

on a germane note to this thread, last week i was walking into my bedroom when i slipped on some water and tore my meniscus and my lcl. my cat-like speed and reflexes were not enough to save me this time. 😔 

[flatdawgs 1,285]

23 hours ago, Chopper said:

Just leaving this free link here, from today's NYT https://archive.ph/n7NKM Probably not related to Gtown but...

 

"A leading chain of psychiatric hospitals...." "...to maximize insurance payouts...."

'Murica kicks ass in so many ways.

This is where 'Murica sucks ass.

[Deej 76,911]

21 hours ago, Derka said:

i appreciate you both, and i am going to talk to my doctor about that myoclonic jerks treatment.

on a germane note to this thread, last week i was walking into my bedroom when i slipped on some water and tore my meniscus and my lcl. my cat-like speed and reflexes were not enough to save me this time. 😔 

Obligatory...

 

[Sharon 8]

My daughter went in Friday for one on one counseling.  She saw a suicide up close and hasn't been able to reconcile this. But the intake staff saw her 20 year old cutting scars and locked her up against her will. Its now Wednesday and they refuse to release her. Son in law is fighting it. Police involved.  They threatened keep her to 45 days if she signed the AMA release form. Police made them give it to her. 24 hours later we find out they didn't.  This place is horrible. She will be scarred far worse now than when she went in. And she is a teacher and mother of 3. And it is her 35th birthday and her daughters 15th birthday.  She was told if she stayed she could leave any time but definitely by Sunday at dinner so she can go back to work on Monday. Yet all doors are chained, she was physically restrained when she went to walk out and they are medicating her. Now this lock up could cost her her teaching job. This place needs to be shut down!

[Derka 6,353]

14 hours ago, Sharon said:

My daughter went in Friday for one on one counseling.  She saw a suicide up close and hasn't been able to reconcile this. But the intake staff saw her 20 year old cutting scars and locked her up against her will. Its now Wednesday and they refuse to release her. Son in law is fighting it. Police involved.  They threatened keep her to 45 days if she signed the AMA release form. Police made them give it to her. 24 hours later we find out they didn't.  This place is horrible. She will be scarred far worse now than when she went in. And she is a teacher and mother of 3. And it is her 35th birthday and her daughters 15th birthday.  She was told if she stayed she could leave any time but definitely by Sunday at dinner so she can go back to work on Monday. Yet all doors are chained, she was physically restrained when she went to walk out and they are medicating her. Now this lock up could cost her her teaching job. This place needs to be shut down!

i am so sorry you’re going through this. nobody deserves this. i wish i could say differently, but i’ve changed since i was in there. i’m just not the same person. more angry, more short with people, sleep issues worse than i had before, more hopeless; the truth is that a ton of the work that i spent years doing has been undone by less than one week in that place. it’s seriously cruel and inhumane. they’ve taken someone who you love who needs medical and psychological help and all they’ve done (all they do) is increase the trauma. i wish i had anything hopeful to say. all i can come up with is that i hope that your daughter gets out as soon as possible, and that y’all are able to be there for her in any way possible. i sincerely wish you the best.

[Derka 6,353]

On 8/3/2024 at 1:42 PM, Derka said:

god this was so evident with a few of the people there. just showing up to work mad and taking it out on the patients. like i said, it’s an absolute madhouse in there, so i get it, but damn- you can’t do doordash? favor? only fans? working at these places and being part of the cycle of misery has got to be a terrible life.

i went to the brand new heb that opened today, and one of the workers there reminded me of that particularly horrible cunt who i described in my video. i caught a glimpse of her, and my bones chilled, and it took me a second to get enough f my bearings to focus and see that it obviously wasn’t her. shit like that still happens for me. the first 2-3 weeks after i got out it took me hours to fall asleep because my mind would race with thoughts of revenge, anger, violence, etc. i’ve improved since then, but i’ve still been knocked back a few years in terms of mental and emotional progress. they really did a number on me in there. 

[B00M 6,463]

16 hours ago, Sharon said:

My daughter went in Friday for one on one counseling.  She saw a suicide up close and hasn't been able to reconcile this.

Did your daughter have a relationship with the person? Depending on the circumstances, there are almost certainly survivor groups in the Austin area where she can share her story with other people that went through very similar shit. It sounds awful but it will help. 

6 days in the place Derka described will really fuck her up. You’ve got to get her out and help her however you can. 

 

[Pam Cummings 9,658]

How does a place like this not get sued to Bolivia? This is a scam. Stuff like this is crazy and hurts all of us, not just the vulnerable mentally ill people they are preying on.

[TwiceHorn 31,534]

15 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

How does a place like this not get sued to Bolivia? This is a scam. Stuff like this is crazy and hurts all of us, not just the vulnerable mentally ill people they are preying on.

I might suppose that it is difficult to prove causation of, and in most cases, compensable injury (compensable meaning beyond sort of dignitary).  And that's before you take into account Texas' med mal "reforms" that make it more difficult.

An "ideal" med mal case has conduct falling below the standard of care that causes a serious and incapacitating physical injury, for a person at an age where their earning capacity is diminished or destroyed, preferably someone with an established potentially high earning capacity.  And, with large lifetime care costs.

Medical causation can be a sticky wicket in any case, but I'd imagine particularly so in psychiatric care, and a lot of the patients don't tend to meet the other criteria.

[Hermanator 7,165]

Welcome to the new reality under totalitarianism. Brought to you by Greg Abbott. 

We're in a sneak preview phase here in places like Texas, Florida, and the deep South for the takeover of the country that's soon to follow. 

On 11/13/2024 at 12:32 PM, Sharon said:

My daughter went in Friday for one on one counseling.  She saw a suicide up close and hasn't been able to reconcile this. But the intake staff saw her 20 year old cutting scars and locked her up against her will. Its now Wednesday and they refuse to release her. Son in law is fighting it. Police involved.  They threatened keep her to 45 days if she signed the AMA release form. Police made them give it to her. 24 hours later we find out they didn't.  This place is horrible. She will be scarred far worse now than when she went in. And she is a teacher and mother of 3. And it is her 35th birthday and her daughters 15th birthday.  She was told if she stayed she could leave any time but definitely by Sunday at dinner so she can go back to work on Monday. Yet all doors are chained, she was physically restrained when she went to walk out and they are medicating her. Now this lock up could cost her her teaching job. This place needs to be shut down!

Did you get your daughter out?

[Bevo 13,600]

46 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Welcome to the new reality under totalitarianism. Brought to you by Greg Abbott. 

We're in a sneak preview phase here in places like Texas, Florida, and the deep South for the takeover of the country that's soon to follow. 

Did you get your daughter out?

 

I haven't seen any state handle behavioral health well. I assume you have. Can you tell me how New York and Massachusetts private behavioral health facilities differ from those in Texas? I see the Acadia operates in most states: https://www.acadiahealthcare.com/locations/

[Hermanator 7,165]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

 

I haven't seen any state handle behavioral health well. I assume you have. Can you tell me how New York and Massachusetts private behavioral health facilities differ from those in Texas? I see the Acadia operates in most states: https://www.acadiahealthcare.com/locations/

Individual institutions can vary state by state, but by and large democrat-run states will have a higher degree of regulation and oversight than Republican states. Texas has a remarkably low level of oversight for mental health institutions, child welfare protective services, etc. I'm unaware of any specific tracking of data because there's no data being kept on abuses by institutions under Republican watch, but the main reason we are as deep in the mess as we are is because of Reagan's Administration and the mental health systems act of 1980. 

Texas and Florida in particular have horrific reputations for handling of mental health institutions and oversight. 

[Bevo 13,600]

6 hours ago, Hermanator said:

Individual institutions can vary state by state, but by and large democrat-run states will have a higher degree of regulation and oversight than Republican states. Texas has a remarkably low level of oversight for mental health institutions, child welfare protective services, etc. I'm unaware of any specific tracking of data because there's no data being kept on abuses by institutions under Republican watch, but the main reason we are as deep in the mess as we are is because of Reagan's Administration and the mental health systems act of 1980. 

Texas and Florida in particular have horrific reputations for handling of mental health institutions and oversight. 

Interesting. All the articles I see are related to cost, access and number of adults with needs. I have a hard time finding info. on the quality of treatment.

Edited 16 hours ago by Bevo

[TwiceHorn 31,534]

Funny thing, although Texas has this reputation as under-regulating business, there have been some studies that note that Texas has a lot of laws and a lot of mandatory language in those laws.  So, like Texas being a low tax state, that may be mostly a myth.

I suspect moreso than under-regulating, it's under-enforcement.  Like the CPS saga and the juvenile justice facilities:  the laws are there, they're just ignored and unenforced.  And underfunded.

But, both standard/quality of care and the regulatory environment are pretty qualitative, so it's hard to know.

[Bevo 13,600]

One interesting thing following the mental health rabbit hole, is that mental health treatment seems borked. In the US, there was no correlation between what was termed quality of care and suicide rates. The south had lower suicide rates compared to the Rocky Mountain States. California had very low suicide rates. Vermont had high suicide rates. Looking at suicide rates by country, the lowest rates were found in some of the poorest countries which I assume would also have the lowest "quality of care".

And the countries with the highest suicide rates:

So, there appears to be no correlation between GDP and mental health nor is there a correlation between "quality of care" and mental health. Countries such as Canada who are considered to have great quality of mental healthcare have higher suicide rates than the US which is considered to have poor quality of mental healthcare.

 

 

[gsoda3 3,281]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

One interesting thing following the mental health rabbit hole, is that mental health treatment seems borked. In the US, there was no correlation between what was termed quality of care and suicide rates.

 

I read a paper a number of years ago that analyzed the correlation between climate and suicide rates.  Basically the nicer and more "perfect" the climate the lower the suicide rate. As you trend away from "perfect" toward both cold and hot the rates increase, but even in the hottest climates the rates didn't come close to the coldest climates.  As I recall there weren't future studies planned.

[Bevo 13,600]

2 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

I read a paper a number of years ago that analyzed the correlation between climate and suicide rates.  Basically the nicer and more "perfect" the climate the lower the suicide rate. As you trend away from "perfect" toward both cold and hot the rates increase, but even in the hottest climates the rates didn't come close to the coldest climates.  As I recall there weren't future studies planned.

 

That appears true. However, Sweden had Scandinavia in general had very high suicide rates in the 1960s but those numbers have improved dramatically. Socialism is generally credited for the improvement but their numbers are still worse than in the US and as I pointed out above, GDP and access to care seem irrelevant.  OTOH, Scandinavia must be doing something right to see such a large change: And it could be something as simple as better technology to combat the long winters.

[Foosters 17,885]

3 hours ago, Bevo said:

One interesting thing following the mental health rabbit hole, is that mental health treatment seems borked. In the US, there was no correlation between what was termed quality of care and suicide rates. The south had lower suicide rates compared to the Rocky Mountain States. California had very low suicide rates. Vermont had high suicide rates. Looking at suicide rates by country, the lowest rates were found in some of the poorest countries which I assume would also have the lowest "quality of care".

And the countries with the highest suicide rates:

So, there appears to be no correlation between GDP and mental health nor is there a correlation between "quality of care" and mental health. Countries such as Canada who are considered to have great quality of mental healthcare have higher suicide rates than the US which is considered to have poor quality of mental healthcare.

 

 

From 5 years ago, but notice the green around the cities.

[Bevo 13,600]

5 minutes ago, Foosters said:

From 5 years ago, but notice the green around the cities.

 

So big cities have low suicide rates and rural areas have high suicide rates? I get the rural areas, but personally, I feel like big cities drive me crazy. I fucking hate traffic.

 

BTW, I assume that something similar could be happening in Scandinavia - people moving from rural areas into the large population centers - so the entire country's suicide rate lowers.

[Pato del Muerto 52,595]

Or it could be as simple as the rural, even per capita, is more largely affected by a single event or small number of events. Maybe those places need zero events to say under the average, and one puts them above.  Or whatever scale is realistic. 

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

I somehow am just now seeing this thread, I'm sorry for you and any others that have had this kind of experience. I'm fortunate to have had mostly positive experiences with mental health care (thanks to friends and family that have been able to point me to actual, real sources of help instead of places like this) but I know that, for the most part, the system is utterly broken and backwards and that we, as a country, for some reason have no interest in investing further in it.

[Hank Kingsley 21,053]

On 8/3/2024 at 11:59 AM, Macklemore said:

The only private psychiatric hospital worth a damn in Texas is the Menninger Clinic in Houston. They don’t take insurance and you have to pay $20K a a week. We don’t give a damn about mental health in this country.

It was 15k for a week long evaluation for someone close to me about 3 years ago. Everyone at Menninger was polite and professional. Overall a good experience. But it didn't take long for me to realize they missed the proper diagnosis. Their recommendation was a 45 day rehab out of state (cost $60k) to get "sober" (substance abuse was never a major concern), and it changed absolutely nothing for the better. 

I've wanted to reach out to Menninger about it, but never did. 

[Rex Kramer 1,361]

5 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

That appears true. However, Sweden had Scandinavia in general had very high suicide rates in the 1960s but those numbers have improved dramatically. Socialism is generally credited for the improvement but their numbers are still worse than in the US and as I pointed out above, GDP and access to care seem irrelevant.  OTOH, Scandinavia must be doing something right to see such a large change: And it could be something as simple as better technology to combat the long winters.

It’s not the long winters. It’s the utter lack of Scandinavian sunlight in those winters, just as it is in Alaska.  Without fail, the further north you go, the higher the rates. People who credit socialism for any improvement are morons. 

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

7 hours ago, Bevo said:

poorest countries which I assume would also have the lowest "quality of care".

Not necessarily true with regard to health care in general, spending doesn't necessarily correlate to quality of care. We vastly outspend everyone else for health care per capita and yet our quality of care is trash tier almost across the board. Hell, Cuba is poor as shit and spends peanuts per capita compared to the US and has better life expectancy, infant mortality, and overall outcomes IIRC.

[Bevo 13,600]

5 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

It’s not the long winters. It’s the utter lack of Scandinavian sunlight in those winters, just as it is in Alaska.  Without fail, the further north you go, the higher the rates. People who credit socialism for any improvement are morons. 

This is what I read and something similar on another government type website and AI.

 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-rate-by-country

 

Suicide in Sweden

In 2019, Sweden had 14.7 suicides per 100,000 people. Historically, Sweden has had a high suicide rate, with the most suicides in the developed world during the 1960s. That may have been due, at least in part, to cultural attitudes regarding suicide and long, dark winters, particularly in the northern regions. The government responded to the crisis with social welfare and mental health services, and the numbers have dropped dramatically. Today, Scandinavian countries – Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland – have very high happiness rates and relatively low suicide rates. However, the dark winters – 20 hours of darkness or more in each day in some areas – causes seasonal affective disorder (SAD), a form of depression, which has been known to correlate with higher rates of suicide.

Euthanasia, or physician-assisted suicide, is still illegal in Sweden but is accepted in some instances. A physician may not administer lethal drugs to a terminally ill patient, but he or she may end life support of the patient requests doing so and demonstrates that they understand the consequences. This form of physician-assisted suicide, known as passive euthanasia, is not included in suicide statistics. Active euthanasia, when a physician administers lethal drugs to a terminally ill patient with the patient and family's consent, may soon become legal in Sweden, as it is becoming more accepted in European countries.

[Bevo 13,600]

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

Not necessarily true with regard to health care in general, spending doesn't necessarily correlate to quality of care. We vastly outspend everyone else for health care per capita and yet our quality of care is trash tier almost across the board. Hell, Cuba is poor as shit and spends peanuts per capita compared to the US and has better life expectancy, infant mortality, and overall outcomes IIRC.

 

look at the countries - Syria, Jordan, Principe, Antigua and Indonesia are not spending on healthcare. And outcomes don't correlate well with quality of care. Diet and exercise and healthy living do, however correlate well well with outcomes.

[Bevo 13,600]

7 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

look at the countries - Syria, Jordan, Principe, Antigua and Indonesia are not spending on healthcare. And outcomes don't correlate well with quality of care. Diet and exercise and healthy living do, however correlate well well with outcomes.

Sorry meant - Diet and exercise and healthy living (ie. not smoking) correlate well well with life expectancy but healthcare expenditures do not correlate well with life expectancy.

Edited 3 hours ago by Bevo

[Brisketexan 105,321]

8 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Not necessarily true with regard to health care in general, spending doesn't necessarily correlate to quality of care. We vastly outspend everyone else for health care per capita and yet our quality of care is trash tier almost across the board. Hell, Cuba is poor as shit and spends peanuts per capita compared to the US and has better life expectancy, infant mortality, and overall outcomes IIRC.

Of course there are multiple factors in suicide rates.  Live in paradise, lower suicide rate.  Live in Lubbock when the wind blows, higher suicide rate.  Live in a society with more social cohesion and family connection, better outcomes than a society that fosters loneliness and isolation.

But spending matters too.  And you're correct that spending doesn't necessarily correlate to quality of care.  The key is WHAT we are spending on.  We spend a whole lot of money.....that does not go to care/delivering outcomes.  We have a very inefficient system, skewed towards delivering profits instead of care.  That's not to say that ANY system is perfect - care costs money, period.  It has to come from somewhere.  But we are an unhealthy society with unhealthy systems.  And it bites us in the ass.

[NorthLoop 14,242]

5 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

So big cities have low suicide rates and rural areas have high suicide rates? I get the rural areas, but personally, I feel like big cities drive me crazy. I fucking hate traffic.

 

BTW, I assume that something similar could be happening in Scandinavia - people moving from rural areas into the large population centers - so the entire country's suicide rate lowers.

 

4 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Or it could be as simple as the rural, even per capita, is more largely affected by a single event or small number of events. Maybe those places need zero events to say under the average, and one puts them above.  Or whatever scale is realistic. 

My guess is that it's as simple as alcoholism (and drug use) is more prevalent by % amongst the poor and uneducated, which make up a larger % of the population of rural areas vs cities. 

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

7 minutes ago, NorthLoop said:

 

My guess is that it's as simple as alcoholism (and drug use) is more prevalent by % amongst the poor and uneducated, which make up a larger % of the population of rural areas vs cities. 

I'm not sure I agree with this. Feel free to post some, I'm certainly willing to have my mind changed, but 1I've never seen any sort of compelling evidence that there is any correlation between economic status/level of education and substance abuse. I have, on the other hand, seen studies over the years that suggest that the middle/upper class consume drugs/alcohol at either the same rate or a higher rate than those at a poverty level.

On the other hand, there is a correlation with homelessness and substance addiction, but that adds multiple additional layers of hardship over simply being poor that would possibly lead someone to substance abuse.

I would guess the answer is much more simple, and that's just the bleakness of their existence. I live in a rural area of central TX, out in the country but near a town that is objectively dying and lacking opportunity for basically anyone that isn't a fast food restaurant owner or has some sort of specialized practice (dentist, lawyer, etc). I know so many people who are barely hanging on by the skin of their teeth and any number of major (or even minor, but seemingly major in their eyes) life events lie in wait that could absolutely push them into a hopeless spiral that could quickly lead to suicide.

[mchookem 16,382]

so what's the status on @Sharon's daughter??

as someone who had a young family member involuntarily (and absolutely incorrectly) 'held' for mental health reasons a few years ago...it's infuriating! luckily in our instance, the pre-admission medical check doctor (at an unaffiliated hospital) realized it was some bullshit and pulled rank (or whatever) and ordered her release...but still, it was terrifying it got to that point...i can't imagine if she was actually locked up and we couldn't get to her!