ATR-72 crash in Brazil

[DalTxHornFan 3074]

5 minutes ago, ABSR said:

Boeing approves this message/culpability analysis.

Long Boeing shareholder agrees! 

[Bateshorn 9853]

On 8/10/2024 at 10:22 AM, SurlyGator said:

Not the best humble brag I've ever seen, but...

It is if you are talking about Washington, DC. 

When you come in to DCA from the North, you fly over some of the wealthiest enclaves in America. 

Edited August 12 by Bateshorn

[SurlyGator 858]

Every rule has its exceptions.

[Ted Lange 15975]

Was looking for more information and came across this.   Ice is one of the early guesses as to what caused the recent crash.

 

 

[jimmyjazz 45430]

On 8/10/2024 at 5:47 AM, Royalfan5 said:

As someone who lives in an Airport flight path, I’m fairly convinced that I’ll go out by having a plane fall on me while I’m taking a shit and posting here.

In grad school I lived in a dump just off 51st and Airport.  We were directly on the most common inbound flight path into Mueller Airport.  It felt like you could hit a jet with a rock.  They do leave a pretty cool sound a few seconds after they pass overhead -- probably some kind of vortex shedding off the wings/fuselage.  

[Shaddie 1634]

So in a People magazine web article. Just absolutely brutal if true. 
 

Laiana Vasatta, a lawyer who would represent clients in lawsuits against airlines, is reportedly among the victims.

[Pods 7503]

9 hours ago, Shaddie said:

So in a People magazine web article. Just absolutely brutal if true. 
 

Laiana Vasatta, a lawyer who would represent clients in lawsuits against airlines, is reportedly among the victims.

 

[Pescado_Rojo 19324]

17 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

In grad school I lived in a dump just off 51st and Airport.  We were directly on the most common inbound flight path into Mueller Airport.  It felt like you could hit a jet with a rock.  They do leave a pretty cool sound a few seconds after they pass overhead -- probably some kind of vortex shedding off the wings/fuselage.  

I lived at 47th and Depew a few blocks south of you probably around the same time frame. I was dating a girl that lived by the intermural fields and every time we talked on the phone (land line) I'd hear the plane through the phone a couple seconds before I'd here it overhead. She'd say "hang on...plane" and we'd sit there in silence for 10-15 seconds waiting for it to fly over both of us. 

[jimmyjazz 45430]

14 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I lived at 47th and Depew a few blocks south of you probably around the same time frame. 

Yup, that was about 3 blocks south of me.  I was (too) close to the billiard parlor.  To say it attracted some unsavory characters was an understatement.  Random gunfire wasn't all that rare.

[Pescado_Rojo 19324]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yup, that was about 3 blocks south of me.  I was (too) close to the billiard parlor.  To say it attracted some unsavory characters was an understatement.  Random gunfire wasn't all that rare.

Yea, we were on the other side of the pool hall. We used to go in there in the afternoon and play cheap pool for a couple hours. Made the mistake of going in there at night once. Lasted about 5 minutes and never made that mistake again. 

[52-80 19047]

if it aint embraer i aint embracin 'er

[52-80 19047]

On 8/10/2024 at 5:02 AM, Chad Fuck said:

I was just there in May. There are mountains to the north. The south is plains.

But you can fly just as low there as you can anywhere else. The ground is still the ground.

I've flown into Lukla and if I rememeber right there was a crashed airplane abandoned on the side of the runway which was nice to see

[RPM 26168]

ATR has an aggy rep for icing and making changes. 

[jimmyjazz 45430]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

I've flown into Lukla and if I rememeber right there was a crashed airplane abandoned on the side of the runway which was nice to see

I flew into DFW about a day after a jet went down due to wind shear.  It was not a pretty sight.

[jkates 310]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I flew into DFW about a day after a jet went down due to wind shear.  It was not a pretty sight.

My father-in-law was the last plane into DAL once due to extreme weather and wind shear. They closed the runway for 30 minutes after he got down. Scariest landing of his career he later told me.

Edited August 13 by jkates

[Clintonaldo 2567]

I lived about 10 miles from this crash. 

I lived about 10 miles from this crash. 

[Hagbard Celine 10663]

old mueller holla.....

American used to run a DC-10 down from DFW every night almost empty because they had a contract that had a flat fee for jumbo parking up to a certain number, so Austin, Tulsa and I think Little Rock all had widebody service in the mid-80s.

These were DC-10-10 machines, the originals, not the -30 intercontinental version with better engines

The -10 needed every inch of Mueller's runway, so the approach would clear i35 by not much

Other Mueller trivia: this legend was before my time on the 40, but supposedly twice in '76 elvis dispatched his 880 from memphis to mueller to fetch mrs. johnson's donuts

[Ten Bears 2475]

On 8/13/2024 at 9:15 AM, jimmyjazz said:

Yup, that was about 3 blocks south of me.  I was (too) close to the billiard parlor.  To say it attracted some unsavory characters was an understatement.  Random gunfire wasn't all that rare.

What was that pool hall? Austin Que Club? Stayed open all night?

[jimmyjazz 45430]

6 minutes ago, Ten Bears said:

What was that pool hall? Austin Que Club? Stayed open all night?

Yes, although I think it was Austin Cue Club.  Right by the train tracks.

[Ten Bears 2475]

14 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yes, although I think it was Austin Cue Club.  Right by the train tracks.

Yes of course, Cue not Que lol.  

I was in there once with my girlfriend after the bars closed so it was like 4 in the morning and this dude that had stolen my truck for a joy ride some 2 years earlier starts fucking with me because I had slapped him around over it.  We backed our way out of that place with my knife drawn.  

[Pescado_Rojo 19324]

5 hours ago, Ten Bears said:

Yes of course, Cue not Que lol.  

I was in there once with my girlfriend after the bars closed so it was like 4 in the morning and this dude that had stolen my truck for a joy ride some 2 years earlier starts fucking with me because I had slapped him around over it.  We backed our way out of that place with my knife drawn.  

You could go in there on a weekday afternoon and have the place pretty much to yourself. Cheap beer and cold AC, but you best be gone no later than 5:30. Waaaay different place at night. 

[jimmyjazz 45430]

Its proximity to an elementary school was an extra bonus.  Like, 50 yards away.

[Keef 754]

On 8/9/2024 at 9:24 PM, Macanudo said:

I don't know about ya'll but I'd be hard pressed to get on a plane that Yeti Airlines is flying.   That sounds like the Aggie of airlines.

It's pretty terrifying, and believe it or not, Yeti Air is like the reputable one.  I went backpacking in Nepal maybe 5 years ago and there is little in the Kathmandu airport or the shitty planes they have that inspire confidence, especially when you know you're going into the mountains.  But, thank GOD as I'm a huge chicken about flying, it was an amazing smooth flight both times, with beautiful views of the Annapurna. 

[InkaUtexas 25290]

Landing in Katmandu sucks. I was on a labor flight and had no faith.

[DalTxHornFan 3074]

Thanks be to G-d for all of his blessings.  Harrowing video from that airport.

Edited August 18 by DalTxHornFan

[Chad Fuck 17455]

What was so scary about Kathmandu? Seemed alright to me.

Ushuaia was pretty scary to me. Nowhere to go but runway or ocean.

[InkaUtexas 25290]

1 hour ago, Chad Fuck said:

What was so scary about Kathmandu? Seemed alright to me.

Ushuaia was pretty scary to me. Nowhere to go but runway or ocean.

What time of the day did you land? We came in right before sunrise. Low clouds, tall mountains, and wind. Worst I went in and out of was in Honduras. Toncontin. Fucker was 1 cross wind from a disaster all the time. Short runway and if you did not land at the beginning of it there was a drop off and a road at the other end. When they would burn the fields valley was black.

 

[Chad Fuck 17455]

9 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

What time of the day did you land? We came in right before sunrise. Low clouds, tall mountains, and wind. Worst I went in and out of was in Honduras. Toncontin. Fucker was 1 cross wind from a disaster all the time. Short runway and if you did not land at the beginning of it there was a drop off and a road at the other end. When they would burn the fields valley was black.

 

Inbound flight was in the morning on Qatar, arriving mid morning.  They use pretty updated equipment, so no worries there.

Then Buddha Air ATR 72 to Bharatpur, afternoon.  Buddha Air to Pokhara, then same from Pokhara back to Kathmandu.  Also took the Buddha Air flight just to go see Everest and the other tall mountains.  This was in May, and the weather was really quite nice the whole time (but for Bharatpur where one day it was 108F!).  No winds to speak of.  Even took an ultralight flight up to the mountains in Pokhara, which was one of the coolest things I've ever done.  All operations seemed professional and well run.  

Then outbound was Qatar again.  

[InkaUtexas 25290]

3 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Inbound flight was in the morning on Qatar, arriving mid morning.  They use pretty updated equipment, so no worries there.

Then Buddha Air ATR 72 to Bharatpur, afternoon.  Buddha Air to Pokhara, then same from Pokhara back to Kathmandu.  Also took the Buddha Air flight just to go see Everest and the other tall mountains.  This was in May, and the weather was really quite nice the whole time (but for Bharatpur where one day it was 108F!).  No winds to speak of.  Even took an ultralight flight up to the mountains in Pokhara, which was one of the coolest things I've ever done.  All operations seemed professional and well run.  

Then outbound was Qatar again.  

NIce. Phuket air for me. Had to take a bus out to the plane in Dubai's Terminal 1 (before it was all Emirates.)

[ClubWhatever 12082]

Phuket Air?  Fire the marketing department.

[InkaUtexas 25290]

Just now, ClubWhatever said:

Phuket Air?  Fire the marketing department.

Did not even come with a handjob.

[bschoolprof 6228]

As I suspected, it was ice.  Link

Quote

SÃO PAULO—Ice buildup likely played a role in the crash of an ATR turboprop plane near here last month, killing 62 people in the country’s deadliest airline crash in nearly two decades, Brazilian investigators said. 

The investigators from Brazil’s air force said the aircraft, built by Franco-Italian manufacturer ATR, plunged to the ground in a flat spin after ice formed on the wings as the pilots awaited permission to land from air-traffic controllers. 

“There was a significant buildup of ice,” said Paulo Fróes, lead investigator of the military’s Center for Research and Prevention of Aeronautical Accidents. But investigators hadn’t yet reached a final conclusion on why the plane stalled, he added.

“What we have so far is that one of the crew members can be heard in the cockpit recording saying there was a failure in deicing equipment,” Fróes said at a briefing that accompanied the release of a preliminary report into the incident. “But this has not yet been confirmed by the flight-data recorder.” The probe into a possible failure is ongoing, he added.  

While the plane’s pilot and co-pilot were aware of icy conditions on the route before takeoff, a recording from the aircraft’s cockpit voice recorder showed the co-pilot raising concerns about the amount of ice building up moments before the crash, Fróes said. An ice detector was activated several times in the moments before the crash, investigators said. 

ATR said following the report’s release that it “reaffirms its full support to all the authorities involved.”

Brazilian carrier Voepass, which operated the flight, said that the aircraft’s required systems were all operational and that both pilots were qualified and had updated training.

“Voepass operates in a highly regulated sector and emphasizes that it strictly follows all protocols that certify the compliance of its entire fleet, adhering to the highest standards of international aviation,” it said.

The Voepass ATR 72-500 took off from the southern city of Cascavel just before midday Aug. 9, reaching a cruising altitude of 17,000 feet.

But an hour-and-a-half later, about 20 minutes before it was due to land in São Paulo’s Guarulhos international airport, Flight 2283 plunged to the ground at speeds of up to 270 miles an hour while in a horizontal spin, according to the aviation-tracking site Flightradar24.  

The plane’s crew had requested to land moments earlier, but they were told to keep cruising at 17,000 feet to allow another plane to pass before landing, possibly leading to greater buildup of ice, Fróes said.

Then disaster struck. The plane curved to the right to land, but then swung violently back to the left and to the right again as the pilot lost control, leaving the aircraft perpendicular to the ground at one point. 

Losing all forward thrust, the plane dropped into the backyard of a family’s home in Vinhedo, a town about 50 miles northwest of São Paulo, and burst into flames. All 58 passengers and four crew members died, many pressured within the fuselage of the plane as it crumpled on impact. No one was hurt on the ground.

Investigators said many of the bodies were found in the brace position, indicating that they were conscious at the time of the crash.

In recordings from the cockpit voice recorder the co-pilot can be heard asking the pilot what was going on as the plane rapidly started losing altitude, telling him the plane needed “more power.” 

Danilo Santos Romano, the 35-year-old pilot who was flying the plane when it crashed, joined Voepass in 2022 and had 10 years of experience, according to the airline. He previously worked for Air Astana, Kazakhstan’s flag carrier, and Colombia’s Avianca. Both Romano and his co-pilot had been trained to fly in icy conditions, investigators said. 

Founded in 1995 by a bus-company tycoon, Voepass has grown to become Brazil’s fourth-largest domestic airline, largely by offering short flights around the country’s wealthy southeast region. 

Speaking at a press conference on the day of the crash, Eduardo Busch, the chief executive of Voepass, said that all systems in the ATR 72-500 aircraft were fully operational when it took off. He said the company adhered to all regulations.

Voepass passengers had reported a series of maintenance problems in the days and months before the crash. Videos posted to social media of the same plane a day earlier showed passengers complaining after the air-conditioning system stopped functioning, forcing one traveler to strip down to his bare chest as temperatures soared in the cabin midflight. Other passengers complained of broken seats. 

The plane crash was the country’s most deadly since 2007, when 199 people died after a plane skidded off the end of the runway during heavy rain at São Paulo’s smaller airport in the middle of the city.

The ATR 72 aircraft has been involved in several cases where pilots lost control after ice built up on the wings. The buildup can make it harder to fly. 

In 2010, an ATR 72 crashed in Cuba, killing all 68 people on board, after pilots failed to handle icy conditions at 20,000 feet. Six years later, pilots in Norway also lost control of an ATR 72 after encountering icy conditions. They were able to regain control and complete the flight. 

 

[elfenix 34161]

On 8/22/2024 at 9:46 AM, InkaUtexas said:

Did not even come with a handjob.

phuket?

 

 

 

[Ted Lange 15975]

On 8/9/2024 at 8:16 PM, Ted Lange said:

 

Sounds like early  speculation was correct. 

[bschoolprof 6228]

Well, there's more to it apparently now that the preliminary report is out.  There was a fault in the de-icing system on the leading edges, so the pilots turned the system off, didn't run the full checklist and failed to immediately exit the icing conditions like they should have.  Some youtube pilots discuss it here and here.