CFB coaching carousel

[SimonBolivar 10962]

1 minute ago, Landomatic said:

Who? UCLA or Miami or Oregon?

Sorry, Oklahoma.

Edited December 5, 2021 by SimonBolivar

[Constant 6763]

 

[Aqua Buddha 14660]

Lebby is also a good catch.  Ole Miss' offense has run up and down the field on the SEC the past two seasons.

[utexas8 1482]

Damn. Lol.

[Bevo14 8438]

Nm

Edited December 5, 2021 by Bevo14

[Landomatic 3813]

29 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Apparently Chris Lowe is reporting that if Mario leaves for Miami then Oregon’s #1 target will be chip Kelly. @Sbbruin might get sucked in regardless of not firing the guy. 

If that happens, the @Sbbruins will have to go hard in the paint on their hire to keep up with USC and Lincoln's thunder. Trojans have all the momentum in their little local slap fight right now.

[texasstrong12 4668]

8 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Lebby is also a good catch.  Ole Miss' offense has run up and down the field on the SEC the past two seasons.

Yeah, but it's Kiffin's offense. Lebby is calling plays but it's Kiffin's offense. 

[ztejas 43752]

5 minutes ago, utexas8 said:

 

 

 

Damn. Lol.

 

 

To be fair - BON twitter account seems regarded. I knew Caleb was hanging 30 on us the minute he came in the game. Any Texas fan with a few working brain cells wanted Rattler in that game. 

But yeah - talk about a killshot to your dumbass Twitter account. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by ztejas

[texasstrong12 4668]

14 minutes ago, Constant said:

 

I remember when we thought Texas would get the same type production with Sark as the OC from Alabama. Maybe it still happens. 

[Constant 6763]

11 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

I remember when we thought Texas would get the same type production with Sark as the OC from Alabama. Maybe it still happens. 

Y’all expected Alabama production with Texas players. We’ll settle for competence and a top 20 defense. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

Just now, Constant said:

Y’all expected Alabama production with Texas players. We’ll settle for competence and a top 20 defense. 

OU's defense has nowhere near the talent as Clemson's defense either. The same argument applies. 

 

[Hank Kingsley 21136]

If Venables gets the job, I wonder why it took this long. Were they shooting for the moon trying to hire someone else? 

[956 Worldwide 34971]

5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

If Venables gets the job, I wonder why it took this long. Were they shooting for the moon trying to hire someone else? 

A week is long? 

[Hank Kingsley 21136]

1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

A week is long? 

When you're bleeding recruits/players, yes. 

 

[veritas aequitas 443]

34 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yeah, but it's Kiffin's offense. Lebby is calling plays but it's Kiffin's offense. 

So does Lebby bring Kiffin's or Brile's offense with him? Not a bad background to learn from either way, well except for the raping.

[Constant 6763]

22 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

OU's defense has nowhere near the talent as Clemson's defense either. The same argument applies. 

 

I don’t think we’ll lose 6 straight including Kansas at home. We’ll be alright.

[Hank Kingsley 21136]

Wonder if OU was making a push for Aranda and got the word last night it wasn't happening. 

 

[Js1 85826]

Just now, Constant said:

I don’t think we’ll lose 6 straight including Kansas at home. We’ll be alright.

K cool. The talent disparity is still pretty big between us and you. But don’t expect a 2 loss season with the mass exodus you had.

Youre tolerated here, don’t be a douche 

[texasstrong12 4668]

5 minutes ago, Constant said:

I don’t think we’ll lose 6 straight including Kansas at home. We’ll be alright.

Never said you would. That's a straw man. 

There was a huge separation in talent from Alabama to Texas on offense as there will be for Venables from Clemson to OU on defense. 

[taybo20 2968]

It’ll be interesting to see how Lebby does with full autonomy. And to see how ou does likely transitioning away from their staple in counter trey. 
 

the bigger point is they will have to find new identities on both sides of the ball. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

K cool. The talent disparity is still pretty big between us and you. But don’t expect a 2 loss season with the mass exodus you had.

Youre tolerated here, don’t be a douche 

OU fans were going crazy about how Sark wouldn't translate because the talent wasn't comparable to Alabama now they think the defensive talent at OU is comparable to Clemson. 

Good times. 

The hypocrisy is great. 

[956 Worldwide 34971]

18 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

When you're bleeding recruits/players, yes. 

 

You have to review and negotiate these things and have no doubt Venables’ camp had that leverage. The bleeding would likely have happened regardless, OU was definitely a “commit to Lincoln, not OU” deal.

[ztejas 43752]

9 minutes ago, Constant said:

I don’t think we’ll lose 6 straight including Kansas at home. We’ll be alright.

Two external hires ago under a first year HC you lost at home by 28 to Kansas. Two seasons later under that same HC you bookended a 5 game losing streak with a 1 point win over TCU and a 3 point win over ISU. 

So really you aren't that far removed from doing pretty much what you just described. 

[Constant 6763]

2 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

OU fans were going crazy about how Sark wouldn't translate because the talent wasn't comparable to Alabama now they think the defensive talent at OU is comparable to Clemson. 

Good times. 

The hypocrisy is great. 

I think the difference is Venables is the reason for Clemson’s elite defensive recruiting. His arrival there started their rise to elite. 
 

Sark is just another OC in the black hole of Saban’s empire. He was there for one season and had nothing to do with building its greatness. 

[Constant 6763]

4 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Two external hires ago under a first year HC you lost at home by 28 to Kansas. Two seasons later under that same HC you bookended a 5 game losing streak with a 1 point win over TCU and a 3 point win over ISU. 

So really you aren't that far removed from doing pretty much what you just described. 

We aren’t far removed the mid 90’s?

[Nope 3143]

2 minutes ago, Constant said:

I think the difference is Venables is the reason for Clemson’s elite defensive recruiting. His arrival there started their rise to elite. 
 

Sark is just another OC in the black hole of Saban’s empire. He was there for one season and had nothing to do with building its greatness. 

The Bama offense was less effective immediately before and after Sark

[Hank Kingsley 21136]

OU fans will convince themselves Venables is a great hire. 

Texas fans will convince themselves that Venables will not be a good Head Coach. 

History favors OU here, but also OU sucks. 

Advantage: push 

 

[texasstrong12 4668]

Just now, Constant said:

I think the difference is Venables is the reason for Clemson’s elite defensive recruiting. His arrival there started their rise to elite. 
 

Sark is just another OC in the black hole of Saban’s empire. He was there for one season and had nothing to do with building its greatness. 

Maybe, I dunno. 

Was Venables landing a bunch of top 100 composite defensive talent at OU when he was there? I need to go back and see how he recruited at OU. Seems to me Clemson had to do a lot with Venables recruiting similar to Bama but like I said I need to go back to see how Venables recruited at OU. 

[Constant 6763]

Just now, Nope said:

The Bama offense was less effective immediately before and after Sark

Yeah, he’s a good OC. I’m not denying that. 

[ztejas 43752]

2 minutes ago, Constant said:

We aren’t far removed the mid 90’s?

Going down the list of head coaches your program has hired? No - we aren't. 

[tx 3 putt 77965]

2 hours ago, utexas8 said:

Yes but at the same time Texas got an OC with shitty head coaching experience.

offensive lineman and the offensive line play sucks 

[texasstrong12 4668]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

OU fans will convince themselves Venables is a great hire. 

Texas fans will convince themselves that Venables will not be a good Head Coach. 

History favors OU here, but also OU sucks. 

Advantage: push 

 

Thing is I don't think it's a terrible hire. It's a very risky hire and type hire that fails often. 

There were much better hires that could have potentially been made like Kiffin, Napier and Fickell. I would say the same thing about Sark as I would have preferred Kelly, Fickell, or Franklin (please Texas fans don't come for me). 

Edited December 5, 2021 by texasstrong12

[Constant 6763]

2 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Maybe, I dunno. 

Was Venables landing a bunch of top 100 composite defensive talent at OU when he was there? I need to go back and see how he recruited at OU. Seems to me Clemson had to do a lot with Venables recruiting similar to Bama but like I said I need to go back to see how Venables recruited at OU. 

I’m no Clemson historian, but they hired him right after 2011 when they got destroyed by WVU 70-33. He was as much a part of turning them into a powerhouse as Dabo. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

Just now, Constant said:

I’m no Clemson historian, but they hired him right after 2011 when they got destroyed by WVU 70-33. He was as much a part of turning them into a powerhouse as Dabo. 

Sure but that doesn't mean Clemson's bag game and Dabo's ability to hire didn't assist Venables in recruiting. 

You should break down Venables recruiting at OU and Clemson. Show me Venables was landing similar talent at both schools. Maybe he was, I have no clue. 

[LTtxfan 49423]

1 hour ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yeah, but it's Kiffin's offense. Lebby is calling plays but it's Kiffin's offense. 

QB at Ole Miss ran the ball a lot -- if Lebby is new OC at blOU then Caleb Williams probably stays

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Did Deshaun Watson or Trevor Lawrence have anything to do with Clemsons recruiting?

Why would a Kyler Murray, Jalen Hurts or Caleb Williams sign up for Venables?

Could see Caleb staying at ou since he's already there but not sure about future #1 QB recruits.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Loch Ness Monster

[956 Worldwide 34971]

Venables recruited really well at OU on that side of the ball. Not as good as Clemson but OU got players. 
 

He is a pretty good coordinator choice for HC. He has spent two decades on the inside of championship level, well run teams and knows how that works. He’s not just a whiz kid play caller who takes things by storm. He’s stuck around and helped build two programs and knows how it works. 

[Aqua Buddha 14660]

OU's defensive level talent dropped off considerably after Venables left.  He's a really good recruiter and at this point, knows the South pretty well, which will help with the SEC move.  Lebby and the rest of the staff know Texas well.

Also irrelevant whether the offense is Kiffin's or Lebby's.  It's not like football is some secret sauce.  He'll run what he wants to run.  Either way, Ole Miss has run up and down the field on everyone the past years.

Also agree on Williams staying.  They'll also keep the good WR's and they'll get some RB's.  Schedule is trash next year.  They'll be fine.

[956 Worldwide 34971]

Just now, Aqua Buddha said:

OU's defensive level talent dropped off considerably after Venables left.  He's a really good recruiter and at this point, knows the South pretty well, which will help with the SEC move.  Lebby and the rest of the staff know Texas well.

Also irrelevant whether the offense is Kiffin's or Lebby's.  It's not like football is some secret sauce.  He'll run what he wants to run.  Either way, Ole Miss has run up and down the field on everyone the past years.

Also agree on Williams staying.  They'll also keep the good WR's and they'll get some RB's.  Schedule is trash next year.  They'll be fine.

Just take a look at OU All-Americans after 2011 and before. 1999-2011 is full of defenders, including guys like Tommie Harris and evil Roy Williams. Of course, Stoops also made his bones as a defensive coach but Venables got players there.

https://soonersports.com/sports/2019/8/14/208798539.aspx

 

 

[quigley 1563]

8 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

OU fans were going crazy about how Sark wouldn't translate because the talent wasn't comparable to Alabama now they think the defensive talent at OU is comparable to Clemson. 

Good times. 

The hypocrisy is great. 

You're right. OU's defense won't have the same talent as Clemson's in 2022. It's also true that OU's defense wasn't all that talented near the end of Venables tenure as as OU's DC. At that time, the DL coach had stopped recruiting and the DB was coach's greatest qualification was being Stoops golfing buddy.

Here's how Venables last 3 defense at OU fared (prior defenses were as good or better):

Year     National F+ rank (average of SP+ and FEI)
2009     2
2010    13
2011     9

This was back when we'd see defensive guys in the program be total zeros for 3-4 years and suddenly become all-conference players in their Jr or Sr season. I look forward to seeing this type of development again.

OU's defensive production has continued to lag behind its recruiting rankings. The one position group that's shown development, the DL, is hopefully going to keep it's position coaches Thibs and Cain. The LBs have underperformed. Odom was well-regarded coming from Missouri and is an Oklahoma native who played at OU for a year. He's recruited pretty well. I don't know if he stays because Venables is an OUTSTANDING LB coach, and I'm sure will have thoughts.

The area I'm really looking for improvement is in the DB unit. There is a lot of talent (based on the star rankings) and a lot of interesting body types. The baffling, bipolar decisions OU made allotting playing time frustrated many fans including me. Pat Fields seems like a great guy, but think of him as Blake Gideon wearing a different uniform. Fields played more snaps than any other OU defender.

Overall, I think Venables track record at OU and Clemson more strongly predict success for OU's defense than Sark's prior record did for the UT offense.

 

[boilerhorn 1452]

One good way to do this is review NFL draft information.  It is the best way to assess talent level at the schools.  It's not clear if it is recruiting, development, or both.  Moreover, there is almost no way to determine the root cause of the effectiveness of talent acquisition: bag game, charismatic head coaches (Swinney > Stoops), etc.

Venables' final year at OU was 2011, so he had considerable contribution to folks drafted through the 2014 draft.  Here are the OU defensive players drafted from 2008-2014:

2008 - Curtis Loftin (LB, 2); Reggie Smith (CB, 3)
2009 - Nic Harrs (s, 5)
2010 - Gerald McCoy (DT, 1); Keenan Clayton (LB, 4); Dominique Franks (CB, 5)
2011 - Quinton Carter (S, 4); Jonathon Nelson (CB, 7); Jeremy Beal (LB, 7)
2012 - Jamell Fleming (CB, 3); Frank Alexander (DE, 4); Ronnell Lewis (LB, 4); Travis Lewis (OLB, 7)
2013 - Stacy McGee (DT, 6); David King (DE, 7)
2014 - Aaron Colvin (CB, 4); Corey Nelson (LB, 7)

The defense was good, but not stocked with NFL talent.

I'l leave the deep dive into Clemson NFL draftees to someone else (or I'll look at it later), but here are some highlights
2016 - DE in 1st; LB, 2 CB in 2nd; LB in 4th; DT in 5th; S in 7th 
2017 - CB in 3rd; DT in 4th
2018 - 2 defensive players drafted
2019 - 3 DL drafted in 1st round, 1 CB in 2nd round; 2 more from defense drafted later
2020 - LB, CB in 1st round, LB in 3rd round; S in 4th; 
2021 - zero players from defense drafted

Again, I have no idea the root cause ($$, recruiting, development).  However, I see the players at Clemson as being far superior to what he had at OU.  

Edited December 5, 2021 by boilerhorn

[texasstrong12 4668]

I looked at this quickly so numbers might be kind of off. 

OU composite 100 defensive recruits under Venables (last 5 seasons)-

"11 (1)

'10 (2)

'09 (5)

'08 (1)

'07 (1)

Clemson's composite 100 defensive recruits under Venables (last 5 seasons)-

'22 (4)

'21 (3)

'20 (6)

'19 (1)

'18 (3) 

Outside of the '09 cycle, Venables wasn't exactly raking in a bunch of high profile recruits at OU. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by texasstrong12

[utexas8 1482]

[texasstrong12 4668]

2 minutes ago, boilerhorn said:

The best way to do this is review NFL draft information.  It is the best way to assess talent level at the schools.  It's not clear if it is recruiting, development, or both.  Moreover, there is almost no way to determine the root cause of the effectiveness of talent acquisition: bag game, charismatic head coaches (Swinney > Stoops), etc.

Venables' final year at OU was 2011, so he had considerable contribution to folks drafted through the 2014 draft.  Here are the OU defensive players drafted from 2008-2014:

2008 - Curtis Loftin (LB, 2); Reggie Smith (CB, 3)
2009 - Nic Harrs (s, 5)
2010 - Gerald McCoy (DT, 1); Keenan Clayton (LB, 4); Dominique Franks (CB, 5)
2011 - Quinton Carter (S, 4); Jonathon Nelson (CB, 7); Jeremy Beal (LB, 7)
2012 - Jamell Fleming (CB, 3); Frank Alexander (DE, 4); Ronnell Lewis (LB, 4); Travis Lewis (OLB, 7)
2013 - Stacy McGee (DT, 6); David King (DE, 7)
2014 - Aaron Colvin (CB, 4); Corey Nelson (LB, 7)

The defense was good, but not stocked with NFL talent.

I'l leave the deep dive into Clemson NFL draftees to someone else (or I'll look at it later), but here are some highlights
2016 - DE in 1st; LB, 2 CB in 2nd; LB in 4th; DT in 5th; S in 7th 
2017 - CB in 3rd; DT in 4th
2018 - 2 defensive players drafted
2019 - 3 DL drafted in 1st round, 1 CB in 2nd round; 2 more from defense drafted later
2020 - LB, CB in 1st round, LB in 3rd round; S in 4th; 
2021 - zero players from defense drafted

Again, I have no idea the root cause ($$, recruiting, development).  However, I see the players at Clemson as being far superior to what he had at OU.  

The recruiting comparisons in the last 5 years at OU and Clemson definitely back this up. 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5809]

27 minutes ago, Constant said:

I’m no Clemson historian, but they hired him right after 2011 when they got destroyed by WVU 70-33. He was as much a part of turning them into a powerhouse as Dabo. 

 

24 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Sure but that doesn't mean Clemson's bag game and Dabo's ability to hire didn't assist Venables in recruiting. 

You should break down Venables recruiting at OU and Clemson. Show me Venables was landing similar talent at both schools. Maybe he was, I have no clue. 

It's both. Dabo is the closer and the one who built it, but there is definitely a significant number of recruits who came to Clemson to play for BV. 

[Aqua Buddha 14660]

2010 is also about the time Bob Stoops got rich and lazy.  He'd had some really good teams up to that point but started taking shopping trips to Italy.  Recruiting dropped off on both sides of the ball until Riley showed up and then it picked up on offense.

[Stunns38 3712]

It’s gonna be Venables/Lebby. 

Yep, my OU buddy just told me.

[tx 3 putt 77965]

Just now, Stunns38 said:

Yep, my OU buddy just told me.

/ weed dealer ?

[Blotto 23728]

9 minutes ago, utexas8 said:

 

I know he played and coached for the U, but this seems like a questionable move. 

[BearSchlong 8140]

Lebby has come a long way. If he ever wins a NC then he will join Scott Drew as championship winning coaches that have been stuck having lunch with me in Beaumont.