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msudawg

msudawg 371

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I appreciate the information. I am not saying Moorhead is blameless, or even that he did a good job. Or, especially, that you as a fan owe him any gratitude or loyalty. As a disinterested third party observer, something about a lower-tier program like Mississippi State firing a guy after two non-disastrous seasons (again, that is from the outside looking in) largely because he's a poor cultural fit-- it just bugs me. 

The grownups in the room should have been able to judge his cultural fit before hiring him. If you guys don't want a Yankee coaching your football program, don't hire one. Hiring one and then firing him after he goes 6-7... I mean, 6-7 is about what Mississippi State is. That just isn't "firing after Year 2" level boobery out of one of your head coaches. 

Plus Jackie Sherrill coached there a long time. Frankly I don't think you're absolved of all your sins yet.

Had nothing to do with being a yankee... Dan Mullen was a yankee even if he had been at florida for a few years. Hell he was more abrasiveness to the people of starkville than Joe was.

So again, it's nothing to do with him being a yankee, it had to do with him not instilling toughness and discipline into his program.

We lost our S&C coach last year and instead of going out and finding someone that was hard nosed, we just promoted from within and that guy didn't have a clue. 

And you are wrong about MSU being 6-7. You can say that traditionally but times have changed over the past 10 years and it's the new standard that isn't that hard to achieve...

We have had 2 6-7 seasons and 1 5-7 season since Dan Mullen rebuilt us from the ashes of Croom, so 11 years. But also made 10 straight bowls. 

Edited by msudawg
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msudawg

msudawg 371

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Oh I definitely get your points there and a lot of it does seem to go back to the "He never really fit in" mantra.  As another poster in the thread pointed out, if he was such a bad fit then the people responsible for hiring him should be shitcanned before you hire the next coach.

Cohen has done good in all his other hires. I'll give him one pass. Has to get this one right. 

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, msudawg said:

We have had 2 6-7 seasons and 1 5-7 season since Dan Mullen rebuilt us from the ashes of Croom, so 11 years.

So you've done it three times in 11 years and gone 7-6 two more times. 

And right before that, how many losing seasons did Croom have? How many did Jackie have right before he got fired? 

What's your winning percentage since the turn of the century? Is it about six divided by thirteen? Maybe approximately?

Edited by SwanderedTalent
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msudawg

msudawg 371

Posted
Posted
Just now, SwanderedTalent said:

So you've done it three times in 11 years and gone 7-6 two more times. 

And right before that, how many losing seasons did Croom have? How many did Jackie have right before he got fired? 

What's your winning percentage since the turn of the century? Is it about six divided by thirteen? Maybe approximately?

You can pick turn of the century. I can pick since Dan Mullen turned us around. selective stats are selective 

I don't need to look it up.. it's horrible.... can we go back to that level with a bad hire? Possibly.. but we won't accept that now. 

A lot changed during that time also besides getting Mullen. We got rid of our Penny pinching AD Larry Templton who refused to fire Jackie because he was the best thing we had ever had, then hired Croom ..because hey..bama had interviewed him..  Then we got a new crazy president who fired LT and put in place a guy named Greg Byrne (Dollar Bill's son.. and now the AD at Bama). Add to that the influx of SEC Money and we can demand higher expectations. As we got with Dan.  I can't find the stats we were 3 or 4th in the sec over that same time in wins. 

I get it though, we haven't done anything consistently to gain the respect of you or others. But that's why this hire is so important. 

I still believe it's Napier. Unless he wants to wait on Baylor. either way. we will know something tonight / tomorrow. 

 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14488

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

You're MS State, this should be considered a decent enough year.  Definitely not a top notch year, but good enough that the corch doesn't get canned in just his second year.

Yeah, State seems to have a high opinion of themselves all of the sudden. Things will go much easier when the admit that their ceiling is middle tier SEC topping out at 10 wins every so often.

3-10 win seasons in your entire program history.

Edited by HtownHorn
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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18523

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, G650 said:

Uh, no.

It's honestly not that difficult in the SEC. They have Kentucky as their cross-divisional rival. That, plus 4 non conference patsies gets you to 5 wins most years. Just need to beat one out of A&M, Ole Miss, and the crappy SEC east team du jour on their schedule and voila, bowl eligible. This is how it works in the SEC. On particularly good years, maybe they reach up and grab Auburn or LSU? It really isn't that tough.

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msudawg

msudawg 371

Posted
Posted
Just now, Mitch Cumsteen said:

It's honestly not that difficult in the SEC. They have Kentucky as their cross-divisional rival. That, plus 4 non conference patsies gets you to 5 wins most years. Just need to beat one out of A&M, Ole Miss, and the crappy SEC east team du jour on their schedule and voila, bowl eligible. This is how it works in the SEC. On particularly good years, maybe they reach up and grab Auburn or LSU? It really isn't that tough.

Correct... now everyone rightfully bash our soft OOC opponents..

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G650

G650 14108

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Posted
42 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

It's honestly not that difficult in the SEC. They have Kentucky as their cross-divisional rival. That, plus 4 non conference patsies gets you to 5 wins most years. Just need to beat one out of A&M, Ole Miss, and the crappy SEC east team du jour on their schedule and voila, bowl eligible. This is how it works in the SEC. On particularly good years, maybe they reach up and grab Auburn or LSU? It really isn't that tough.

Well, I'm an Alabama fan, and having a 40 year front row seat to this discussion, I will respectfully disagree. State IS the Kentucky of the west. Really Kentucky is probably the program with more upside at this point. This is just a regression to the mean after a period of massive overperformance.

41 minutes ago, msudawg said:

Correct... now everyone rightfully bash our soft OOC opponents..

Yeah, no. Sit down and know your role.

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 11777

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Posted
17 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I agree. Inside the conference, there is a ceiling, but their overall ceiling seems higher given the amount of Ohio talent they have access to thanks to Ohio State's national focus

Not to mention what division they play in. The east is a far easier division than the West.

Georgia and Florida are the top dogs. Tenn seems to be resurgent..... but I’d like to see success next year before I can say that for sure.

I’d say that Kentucky With stoops could be consistently the 3rd best team in the east and find a way to compete for an east title if the stars align. If they lose Stoops, then they’ll likely fall back to earth.

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 20865

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Just now, Enchubben said:

FWIW - I am hearing from all of my tied in Baylor alumni people that Rhule will indeed be leaving for the NFL this year and should be announced in the next day or so. Not sure if that means Carolina or NY.  Buyout rumored to be in the $10M range.

More interesting than Rhule leaving - is which coaches he takes with him.  Snow?  Okam?  Robinson at A&M?

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Liquor and Poker

Liquor and Poker 3659

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

FWIW - I am hearing from all of my tied in Baylor alumni people that Rhule will indeed be leaving for the NFL this year and should be announced in the next day or so. Not sure if that means Carolina or NY.  Buyout rumored to be in the $10M range.

What seemingly random hire will result in a home run for them next?

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ClubWhatever

ClubWhatever 12087

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

FWIW - I am hearing from all of my tied in Baylor alumni people that Rhule will indeed be leaving for the NFL this year and should be announced in the next day or so. Not sure if that means Carolina or NY.  Buyout rumored to be in the $10M range.

Are you a prison guard?

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 20865

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1 minute ago, Butch Had Not said:

Huh?

I get he probably doesn't like being a head coach (he left unm as head coach to DC sdsu) but going to NY is probably a bad idea.  Of course I would have killed for him in austin in some capacity as a defensive mind.

Almost 70 years old - might be looking for a place where he can work a little less and fish a little more.

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Katfid54

Katfid54 8593

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5 minutes ago, relapse98 said:
57 minutes ago, JOSEYWALES66 said:

Wasn’t Joey McGuire being considered for a job at Texas under Strong and something happened and he didn’t pass the background check? 
 

If true, he's a shoe in to wear the smock.

Appears he's just a drunk.

spacer.png

That's what I remember:  He was under consideration then got popped for DWI, and we moved on.

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TexasGolf

TexasGolf 4858

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Enchubben said:

FWIW - I am hearing from all of my tied in Baylor alumni people that Rhule will indeed be leaving for the NFL this year and should be announced in the next day or so. Not sure if that means Carolina or NY.  Buyout rumored to be in the $10M range.

Gil Brandt aka the "Godfather" claiming the other day Rhule to the Giants

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heso

heso 2748

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Posted
4 hours ago, msudawg said:

You can pick turn of the century. I can pick since Dan Mullen turned us around. selective stats are selective 

 

What exactly was this amazing turnaround? he did better than .500 in the sec exactly once at MSU. And that was a year he got both Kentucky and Vanderbilt from the East. His OOC was UAB, southern miss, south Alabama, and Tennessee-Martin. 

That year was also peak SEC hysteria when at one point ESPN FPI had all 4 playoff spots going to the sec. and then Bama, MSU, ole miss, Auburn, and LSU all lost their bowl games and UGA beat mighty Louisville in the Belk bowl. 

After that he finished 5th, 5th, and 5th in the sec. 

Now a coach finishes 4th and 5th in the sec and he gets canned after two years. Other candidates are gonna see that and question if that’s the best move for their career. 

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Katfid54

Katfid54 8593

Posted
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11 minutes ago, JOSEYWALES66 said:
13 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

That's what I remember:  He was under consideration then got popped for DWI, and we moved on.

Yup. Now I remember it.  Thanks 

Also pretty sure we ended up with Jeff Traylor instead, which seems like a big time upgrade.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48982

Posted
Posted

Arky Staff Complete...

Razorbacks.png?resize=300%2C132&ssl=1

2020 Staff

 

NAME TITLE PREVIOUS STOP ANNUAL SALARY
Sam Pittman Head Coach Georgia – OL $3 million – 5 years
OFFENSE      
Kendal Briles Offensive Coordinator Florida State – OC $1 million
Brad Davis Offensive Line Missouri – OL $550k
Justin Stepp Wide Receivers Arkansas – WRS $400k
Jon Cooper Tight Ends UCF – TES $300k
Jimmy Smith Running Backs Georgia State – RB $225k
DEFENSE      
Barry Odom Defensive Coordinator Missouri – Head Coach $1.2 million
Rion Rhoades Linebackers Hutchinson CC (JC – KS) – HC $225k
Derrick LeBlanc Defensive Line Kentucky – DL $450k
Scott Fountain Special Teams Coordinator Georgia – STC $450k
Sam Carter Corners Missouri – Defensive QC $225k
SUPPORT      
Pat Doherty DFO Georgia – Offensive QC $150k
STRENGTH      
Jamil Walker Head Strength and Conditioning Georgia – Associate S&C  
Ed Ellis Assistant S&C Coach Georgia – Senior Associate Director of S&C
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closetojumping

closetojumping 62251

Posted
Posted
Just now, LTtxfan said:

Arky Staff Complete...

Razorbacks.png?resize=300%2C132&ssl=1

2020 Staff

 

NAME TITLE PREVIOUS STOP ANNUAL SALARY
Sam Pittman Head Coach Georgia – OL $3 million – 5 years
OFFENSE      
Kendal Briles Offensive Coordinator Florida State – OC $1 million
Brad Davis Offensive Line Missouri – OL $550k
Justin Stepp Wide Receivers Arkansas – WRS $400k
Jon Cooper Tight Ends UCF – TES $300k
Jimmy Smith Running Backs Georgia State – RB $225k
DEFENSE      
Barry Odom Defensive Coordinator Missouri – Head Coach $1.2 million
Rion Rhoades Linebackers Hutchinson CC (JC – KS) – HC $225k
Derrick LeBlanc Defensive Line Kentucky – DL $450k
Scott Fountain Special Teams Coordinator Georgia – STC $450k
Sam Carter Corners Missouri – Defensive QC $225k
SUPPORT      
Pat Doherty DFO Georgia – Offensive QC $150k
STRENGTH      
Jamil Walker Head Strength and Conditioning Georgia – Associate S&C  
Ed Ellis Assistant S&C Coach Georgia – Senior Associate Director of S&C

Outside of Briles, who has his limitations in value in Texas, I don't see any significant ties to Texas high schools on this staff. They continue to look south and east, and I am all for it.

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Don Johnson

Don Johnson 4745

Posted
Posted

Rhule leaving could have a big effect on Miss State.

Billy Napier was likely their top candidate and supposedly wants the Baylor job.

Patriots STC seemed like the likely hire, but now is very much in play for the NYG HC job or could be headed with McDaniels as his OC (or replace him in NE).

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closetojumping

closetojumping 62251

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Posted

Also, take a look at Kirby Smart's staff moves. People are frequently willing to move laterally away from him at Georgia. He's not Saban. That's not a great sign for a mercenary program. You want continuity with the organization in order to maintain consistency with the head cases and free agents being signed each year.

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texifornia

texifornia 56526

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Rhule leaving could have a big effect on Miss State.

Billy Napier was likely their top candidate and supposedly wants the Baylor job.

Patriots STC seemed like the likely hire, but now is very much in play for the NYG HC job or could be headed with McDaniels as his OC (or replace him in NE).

Napier's already turned them down.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48982

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, closetojumping said:

Also, take a look at Kirby Smart's staff moves. People are frequently willing to move laterally away from him at Georgia. He's not Saban. That's not a great sign for a mercenary program. You want continuity with the organization in order to maintain consistency with the head cases and free agents being signed each year.

No doubt the New Car Shine is gone from Kirby...

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 11777

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

So does Baylor promote from within and give the HC to long time high school coach Joey McGuire - or do they try and make a splash and hire a name?

 

Have to think, despite all the rapin', that Baylor is a job that's going to be highly sought after - no doubt it can/will pay well.

 

Wasn’t the scuttlebutt that Napier didn’t take the Miss State job to wait for Rhule to leave Baylor?

 

 

Sorry didn’t read the previous 4-5 posts. Much better Napier info.

Edited by Dnaguy
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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Honest question that popped into my head re Napier et al. - what's the better job, Baylor or Miss St?  Seems like Waco, but MSU gets thirds or so on the SEC grift and related ESPN deep throating.

I think that can vary-- it really depends on how strong the immediate competition is. Ultimately there are more playoff-level programs in the SEC than the Big 12, so if your goal is to get into the playoff, Baylor's probably the better job in terms of meeting that goal. If you put a playoff caliber team together at both schools, Baylor has to go through OU and maybe Texas to get there, plus whatever programs out of Okie State/TCU/West Virginia/KSU that have particularly strong teams that year. 

At MSU, it's Bama, LSU, and Auburn, plus the East champion out of Florida/Georgia and then lower-tier but still competitive programs like A&M, Tennessee, etc. 

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Don Johnson

Don Johnson 4745

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Honest question that popped into my head re Napier et al. - what's the better job, Baylor or Miss St?  Seems like Waco, but MSU gets thirds or so on the SEC grift and related ESPN deep throating.

Baylor.  If you are Napier, you don't take MSU, Arkansas, Ole Miss etc. unless you are really focused on money, or really want that job for a particular reason.  Sure its hard to turn down $15 million or so guaranteed for your family but a 40 year old with a good reputation is in no rush.

Obviously MSU >>>> ULL, but Napier just won 11 games games there for the first time and can sit back and wait on the right job to open.

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