Jobs/Career Question - Pension Opportunities

[MinerProphet 71]

As the thread title suggests, I am curious about what careers and job opportunities are available that, in the year of our Lord 2024, still offer retirement pensions (defined benefit plan).

I had heard some railroads did and maybe O&G firms still do? Teachers of course (and police officers and firefighters), but I would be wanting to make probably an order of magnitude more than any entry or mid-level teacher, cop or fire fighter so those are probably out.

Anyone have any honey holes or experiences or first hand knowledge? In the absence of that, anyone have any interesting shower thoughts?

[bluto 4912]

Reckon you’re gonna need a time machine or make partner at an acctg or consulting firm. 

[tx 3 putt 76858]

I know a lot retired cops, they all retired young and live very comfortably 

[statsman 5449]

Government jobs are what you’re looking for. Their pensions even have COLAs, unlike the private sector. 

[MinerProphet 71]

5 hours ago, bluto said:

Reckon you’re gonna need a time machine or make partner at an acctg or consulting firm. 

Tell me more about this. From what I understand secondhand, making partner at a Big 4 for example, it only really makes a lot of sense if you do it pre-40 years old because you are having to finance a million (or more) bucks to become a shareholder and it takes years of carry to pay that off until you are in the positive? 

[MinerProphet 71]

5 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

I know a lot retired cops, they all retired young and live very comfortably 

My neighbor is a retired cop and this checks out. He’s been “contracting” on the side as well for some computer forensics stuff and says he can’t quit doing it because the money is too good and it’s easy.

I think I’d need the Time Machine to go back and be a cop— don’t think many municipalities want to hire an older man just like how military has age caps.

[MinerProphet 71]

Speaking of police and pensions:

Police: Dallas police, fire officials are the city’s top earners, but new programs could cut OT. Officials say they hope to boost recruitment and retention efforts to cut down on needing millions more than planned on overtime.

Pensions: Dallas pension investments have taken a hit. But the fund says that’s not the whole story. Dallas police and fire pension system says investments will show better returns in 2026

Quote

 

Two months ago, news of the Dallas Police and Fire Pension system netting a 2% return over 10 years, one of the poorest performances in the state, rankled most anyone who cared about how public safety officers would fare post-retirement.

It’s been seven years since the Legislature stepped in to rescue the fund from the brink of collapse and Months since a rift between the city and the pension system over who gets to have the final say in authorizing a plan to solve the shortfall became public.

 

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2024/08/21/dallas-pension-investments-have-taken-a-hit-but-the-fund-says-thats-not-the-whole-story/

[CleverNickname 1308]

fwiw Nevadas pension entire investment investment team is one dude who picks ETFs. He beats the shit out of tons of huge pension teams routinely.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13506]

9 hours ago, MinerProphet said:

As the thread title suggests, I am curious about what careers and job opportunities are available that, in the year of our Lord 2024, still offer retirement pensions (defined benefit plan).

I had heard some railroads did and maybe O&G firms still do? Teachers of course (and police officers and firefighters), but I would be wanting to make probably an order of magnitude more than any entry or mid-level teacher, cop or fire fighter so those are probably out.

Anyone have any honey holes or experiences or first hand knowledge? In the absence of that, anyone have any interesting shower thoughts?

As a former Big Oil employee, today you might be hard pressed to find defined benefits plans for new employees. I last worked for one of the big players and only the older employees still had those plans. Those plans paid you X% of your final salaries for life, and usually kicked in healthcare at the same costs to current employees. 

The newer employees (post 2000?) had defined contribution plans where the company kicked in monthly amounts into a group investment account that guaranteed ~5% growth annually in addition to the monthly contributions. I've been gone from O&G for 15 years but left my account active. My balance will be approximately 150K when I retire.  Which isn't bad for only working there a couple of years in my 30s.  Both the defined benefits and contribution plans were in addition to 401ks and generous 401k matching.

In my experience you also see the similar defined benefit plans in not-for-profit healthcare systems but the amounts are lower than big oil.

[hornmpa96 2618]

3 hours ago, MinerProphet said:

Tell me more about this. From what I understand secondhand, making partner at a Big 4 for example, it only really makes a lot of sense if you do it pre-40 years old because you are having to finance a million (or more) bucks to become a shareholder and it takes years of carry to pay that off until you are in the positive? 

I think most of the Big 4 has significantly reduced pension benefits for new partners. 

[MinerProphet 71]

1 hour ago, hornmpa96 said:

I think most of the Big 4 has significantly reduced pension benefits for new partners. 

Surely we have some Big 4 partners who can clarify firsthand for us all?

[naija 2854]

Some medical positions still do pensions

[Muny_Tex 293]

I worked at Big 4 for three years after grad school as a Senior Consultant, left right before promotion to Manager...I averaged about $120k annually and left with an $11k "vested" pension benefit; which I chose to rollover into my new employer's 401k plan.  I think the alternative options (aside from lump-sum payout) were like $56/mo for life starting immediately (lol), or something around $160/mo at retirement age.  Had a stayed like ~10 more years and continued to accrue at commensurate salary increases (e.g. Senior Manager at $220k/year), it presumably would've become a reasonably nice financial supplement for later life.

In any event, you definitely don't need to be on Partner track to maximize those type of comp/benefit trajectories.  There are plenty of Big 4 pathways (particularly in technology sector) where individual contributors can stay "topped out" indefinitely in something like a Specialist Master role (with plenty of good bonus incentives) without any further promotion/advancement expectations.

In my experience, the "up or out" mantra seemed to slow down pretty quickly once you make Manager....As long as you're making the firm (and your sponsoring Partner) money, nobody really cares about your personal agenda.

EDIT: General advice, do not work in management consulting if personal values, professional ethics, or work-life harmony are of remote importance to you.  Conversely, if you have sociopathic tendencies and/or define individual success solely through the lens of personal finances then you probably will feel right at home (and may also find many like-minded people on this website).

Edited August 22 by Muny_Tex

[MinerProphet 71]

1 hour ago, Muny_Tex said:

I worked at Big 4 for three years after grad school as a Senior Consultant, left right before promotion to Manager...I averaged about $120k annually and left with an $11k "vested" pension benefit; which I chose to rollover into my new employer's 401k plan.  I think the alternative options (aside from lump-sum payout) were like $56/mo for life starting immediately (lol), or something around $160/mo at retirement age.  Had a stayed like ~10 more years and continued to accrue at commensurate salary increases (e.g. Senior Manager at $220k/year), it presumably would've become a reasonably nice financial supplement for later life.

In any event, you definitely don't need to be on Partner track to maximize those type of comp/benefit trajectories.  There are plenty of Big 4 pathways (particularly in technology sector) where individual contributors can stay "topped out" indefinitely in something like a Specialist Master role (with plenty of good bonus incentives) without any further promotion/advancement expectations.

In my experience, the "up or out" mantra seemed to slow down pretty quickly once you make Manager....As long as you're making the firm (and your sponsoring Partner) money, nobody really cares about your personal agenda.

EDIT: General advice, do not work in management consulting if personal values, professional ethics, or work-life harmony are of remote importance to you.  Conversely, if you have sociopathic tendencies and/or define individual success solely through the lens of personal finances then you probably will feel right at home (and may also find many like-minded people on this website).

Thanks for this. This is too hard and too grindy for my age and disposition these days. Maybe if I were a fresher like you were, it would make sense, but I'm specifically looking at this from this lens:

I make decent to good money in the private sector as an at will employee in the free market capitalist marketplace we have. This means I put back 8% to a 401k and just generally churn out 200 to 250k in good years of W2 earnings.

What I'd like to do for the back half of my career, as I turn 40 next year, is to pivot. Maybe I don' make 2-250k but can make $150k with a pension plan and spend the next 20 years in a state of career brumation- not overly ambitious or hungry or high energy but also not completely useless and quiet quitting, just some nice inbetween of a 40 hour week, little to no travel, and after 20 years have a nice pension to rely on.

Knowing all that plus my age, what we know isnt a realistic option is military, police, fire, Big 4 work. That leaves railroads, O&G (maybe, some are saying that's a no these days), teaching (maybe at the college level?) and government work?

Any other industries (broad) or specific jobs we can think of? 

[CleverNickname 1308]

I have a Texas ERS pension. But workers starting since 2021 or 2023 are not eligible to be in the old Rule of 80 2.3% salary x years plan. It's defined contribution now. I have concerns about how that is impacting state recruiting, but for now the real impact is just the dact that Austin cost of living rapidly outstrippied salary since 2011 or so. Even old heads like me have to be aware the pension has no inflation adjustment, and folks who never saved outside the pension may have real problems down the road.

[MinerProphet 71]

Any university professors on here that can chime in? My now deceased grandfather was a professor at a 4 year university in Texas retired in his late 60’s I would guess, but he got a cool $57,500 a year for the rest of his life from a mix of pension and textbook royalties he helped write that was used in their curriculum. 

That seems like a nice last act job— I have a terminal degree or two so maybe I could teach if I started as an adjunct now?
 

 

[CleverNickname 1308]

State profs pay into TRS, the same teacher pension teachers get. They do also pay into SS which is a real problem for most teachers in Texas. (most school districts don't pay into SS, and that really hurts those retirees).

ERS and TRS has the same formula:

Rule of 80: you can retire when your age + years of service = 80. There are some newer limits for newer TRS hires that penalize retiring before your 60s, but many folks are grandfathered.

The pension pays 2.3% x [highest avg of past X years of service]. So you can't just be in a higher paying position for 1 year. I forget if it's the highest 3 or 5 yrs. But still, take that vice provost position for the final years to juice things (or for a teachers take that AP gig).

So basically a TRS retiree making $100k with 30 yrs experience would get $69k. No COLA. A little more complicated than that since most would take the option for that to pay your spouse until they die, should you die first. My spouse amd I are about the same age, so I think we would get about 94% of that figure (just a basic actuarial calculation). You pay income tax on that pension payout, but not SS or further pension contributions. Since you pay about 10% of the gross pay into TRS, and avoid 6.2% FICA/OASDI and 1.45% Medicare, the net paycheck is not that much less than the $100k making before retire. Less, but maybe closer than yiu may think.

[MinerProphet 71]

8 minutes ago, CleverNickname said:

State profs pay into TRS, the same teacher pension teachers get. They do also pay into SS which is a real problem for most teachers in Texas. (most school districts don't pay into SS, and that really hurts those retirees).

ERS and TRS has the same formula:

Rule of 80: you can retire when your age + years of service = 80. There are some newer limits for newer TRS hires that penalize retiring before your 60s, but many folks are grandfathered.

The pension pays 2.3% x [highest avg of past X years of service]. So you can't just be in a higher paying position for 1 year. I forget if it's the highest 3 or 5 yrs. But still, take that vice provost position for the final years to juice things (or for a teachers take that AP gig).

So basically a TRS retiree making $100k with 30 yrs experience would get $69k. No COLA. A little more complicated than that since most would take the option for that to pay your spouse until they die, should you die first. My spouse amd I are about the same age, so I think we would get about 94% of that figure (just a basic actuarial calculation). You pay income tax on that pension payout, but not SS or further pension contributions. Since you pay about 10% of the gross pay into TRS, and avoid 6.2% FICA/OASDI and 1.45% Medicare, the net paycheck is not that much less than the $100k making before retire. Less, but maybe closer than yiu may think.

This is fantastic information.

Question-- how would it work if you are a lecturer or educator but also had an industry job, as you sometimes see in higher education?

[bobcat1995 71]

As a retired cop (25 years) working on a small second career, I'm looking forward to the day I start drawing my TMRS retirement. I have friends who went into the private sector right out of college and earned more money, and I hope they were as disciplined as we were forced to be with automatic deductions from our paychecks. I know there are people here who are much more knowledgeable (I did mention I was a cop) about retirement accounts and who might have outperformed the TMRS system in the stock market. But let's be honest—most of us aren't disciplined enough to set that money aside and then manage it to maximize gains. Plus, my city offered 2-to-1 matching! How many companies do that in today's world?

If I can keep working until I'm 60 (I don't have to, but 53 is too young to sit around the house all day), I'll officially retire making almost $90k a year from TMRS for the rest of my life. Did I mention that my wife will continue to receive the same amount after I die? Add this to our other 457 accounts, SS (if still there) and we should be okay! 

When I started in the late 90's my pay was $30k a year and I never made more than $120k throughout the 25 years.  All this could have been yours! You just needed to sign up for high-stress, low pay, crappy hours, lousy days off, being called names, people hating you because you wear a uniform, and exposure to diseases, death, and destruction! 

Signed,

Should have been a firefighter!!!

[boilerhorn 1371]

13 minutes ago, MinerProphet said:

This is fantastic information.

Question-- how would it work if you are a lecturer or educator but also had an industry job, as you sometimes see in higher education?

Google can be your friend.

Looks like you'd need to teach 7 credits using the "standard" calculation, but each university can have its own "clock hours per teaching hour" ratio.

https://www.trs.texas.gov/Pages/re_employment_eligibility.aspx
 

1. Employment as an adjunct professor, if the number of clock hours worked per week is 20 or more and the employment is expected to last more than one semester or in fact does continue for more than one semester. To determine the number of clock hours worked per week, employment measured in semester or course hours or credits, instructional units, or any other unit representing class or instructional time is to be converted to clock hours and counted as a minimum of two clock hours for each clock hour of instruction in the classroom or lab. This reflects instructional time as well as preparation, grading, and other time typically associated with one hour of instruction. If the employer has established a greater amount of preparation time for each hour in the classroom or lab, the employer's standard will be used to determine the number of clock hours scheduled for work

 

[MinerProphet 71]

32 minutes ago, bobcat1995 said:

As a retired cop (25 years) working on a small second career, I'm looking forward to the day I start drawing my TMRS retirement. I have friends who went into the private sector right out of college and earned more money, and I hope they were as disciplined as we were forced to be with automatic deductions from our paychecks. I know there are people here who are much more knowledgeable (I did mention I was a cop) about retirement accounts and who might have outperformed the TMRS system in the stock market. But let's be honest—most of us aren't disciplined enough to set that money aside and then manage it to maximize gains. Plus, my city offered 2-to-1 matching! How many companies do that in today's world?

If I can keep working until I'm 60 (I don't have to, but 53 is too young to sit around the house all day), I'll officially retire making almost $90k a year from TMRS for the rest of my life. Did I mention that my wife will continue to receive the same amount after I die? Add this to our other 457 accounts, SS (if still there) and we should be okay! 

When I started in the late 90's my pay was $30k a year and I never made more than $120k throughout the 25 years.  All this could have been yours! You just needed to sign up for high-stress, low pay, crappy hours, lousy days off, being called names, people hating you because you wear a uniform, and exposure to diseases, death, and destruction! 

Signed,

Should have been a firefighter!!!

The deferred and delayed gratification of being super comfortable into old age is cool, though.

But yes, I couldn't afford to provide the kind of life and lifestyle desired for the family with topping out at 120k (assuming that's even with OT), so that's why this is so hard. I guess you can't escape the trade-offs and have it both ways.

[RDCanecutter 26376]

I worked about 3 years at a private college way back when, turned out I squeaked into a pension. I'm talkin a cool $105 a month. They were trying to get me to take about 20K as a lump sum, but that woulda been a 6% haircut. I decided to go for the longevity crap shoot, plus when I croak, my son gets about $50 a month as long as he lives.

Swing for the fences, yo.

Thing is, small private colleges with real pensions are an endangered species.

Also, worked for about a year in Mexico and had a CURP (like a spicy SSN) and paid into it all official-like. I wonder if a have a free 80 pesos a month waiting for me down there. 

[52-80 19139]

My employer provides defined-benefits pension for expat contract. At mid-career I have a chunk of my retirement pot from that.  But my friend of similar age, who is a cop, has full retirement in a few years, and that aint so bad either. 

Well, compared to having dealt with stabbers and getting shot at and piss thrown at, thats the least they can do for him. 

[CooterBrown 18001]

A friend went to work for ERS out of college. At the time, I thought that was a waste of a finance degree.  He's currently a Portfolio Manager making $400,000.  Assuming no more raises, he'll retire in the next year or two, and with 30 years of state service his pension will be over $275,000/year for life.  He's never worked more than 40 hours a week. 

 

 

[MinerProphet 71]

34 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

A friend went to work for ERS out of college. At the time, I thought that was a waste of a finance degree.  He's currently a Portfolio Manager making $400,000.  Assuming no more raises, he'll retire in the next year or two, and with 30 years of state service his pension will be over $275,000/year for life.  He's never worked more than 40 hours a week. 

 

 

He's like the Kirk Cousins of Finance. Bet on himself and he did it and will be well off for life. Not a lot of folks could do that, I would guess.

Edited August 27 by MinerProphet

[Firemans4Horn 18033]

Do you have a specific metro area you are looking? I can run a search and pull down companies with active pensions in that area (won’t cover big 4 etc that are headquartered elsewhere). 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13506]

On 8/27/2024 at 9:31 AM, CooterBrown said:

A friend went to work for ERS out of college. At the time, I thought that was a waste of a finance degree.  He's currently a Portfolio Manager making $400,000.  Assuming no more raises, he'll retire in the next year or two, and with 30 years of state service his pension will be over $275,000/year for life.  He's never worked more than 40 hours a week. 

 

 

There’s a good reason why some jobs rarely have openings and might require that you’re someone’s son/daughter/niece/nephew. “After careful consideration of all of the quality candidates, I’ve decided to hire my son who just wrapped up 6 years getting the undergraduate degree.”

[MinerProphet 71]

On 8/27/2024 at 10:12 AM, Firemans4Horn said:

Do you have a specific metro area you are looking? I can run a search and pull down companies with active pensions in that area (won’t cover big 4 etc that are headquartered elsewhere). 

Texas/Oklahoma/California

[CooterBrown 18001]

Some utilities and pipeline companies that used to have a pension, have replaced it with a 401K match + a profit sharing contribution.  Where I used to work, we had the standard 6% 401k match and we also had a 5% profit sharing 401k contribution.  That was implemented 20 years ago to replace the pension.  You could look around at companies and see if any offer a version of that.  That 11% company contribution was awesome and the only reason I stayed over 15 years.

[Podrick's Magic Cock 191]

The Texas Legislature changed the retirement rules for everyone hired after September 1, 2022.  ERS Retirement Groups  If you go this route, better stuff the 457 plan with money.

[Foosters 17818]

46 minutes ago, MinerProphet said:

Texas/Oklahoma/California

California has some nice gov't jobs with pensions and great benefits, fwiw.

[Fudge Nuggets 19184]

On 8/22/2024 at 9:15 AM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

As a former Big Oil employee, today you might be hard pressed to find defined benefits plans for new employees. I last worked for one of the big players and only the older employees still had those plans. Those plans paid you X% of your final salaries for life, and usually kicked in healthcare at the same costs to current employees. 

The newer employees (post 2000?) had defined contribution plans where the company kicked in monthly amounts into a group investment account that guaranteed ~5% growth annually in addition to the monthly contributions. I've been gone from O&G for 15 years but left my account active. My balance will be approximately 150K when I retire.  Which isn't bad for only working there a couple of years in my 30s.  Both the defined benefits and contribution plans were in addition to 401ks and generous 401k matching.

In my experience you also see the similar defined benefit plans in not-for-profit healthcare systems but the amounts are lower than big oil.

The big bloated international O&G company I work for still has a pension plan along with 401k. 

[MinerProphet 71]

18 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

The big bloated international O&G company I work for still has a pension plan along with 401k. 

What does the super major you work for rhyme with, if you don't want to entirely give the name?

[Fudge Nuggets 19184]

13 minutes ago, MinerProphet said:

What does the super major you work for rhyme with, if you don't want to entirely give the name?

Nice try, HR narc.

[Wally Fairway 5539]

On 8/29/2024 at 1:36 PM, MinerProphet said:

What does the super major you work for rhyme with, if you don't want to entirely give the name?

 

On 8/29/2024 at 1:50 PM, Fudge Nuggets said:

Nice try, HR narc.

If you ask him if he's a cop, he has to tell you. 

🤣🤣🤣

[tx 3 putt 76858]

On 8/22/2024 at 7:24 AM, MinerProphet said:

My neighbor is a retired cop and this checks out. He’s been “contracting” on the side as well for some computer forensics stuff and says he can’t quit doing it because the money is too good and it’s easy.

I think I’d need the Time Machine to go back and be a cop— don’t think many municipalities want to hire an older man just like how military has age caps.

 

all the retired cops i know (mostly hpd) have a house + vacation house 

yes, you can retire young and work many side gigs 

[tx 3 putt 76858]

On 8/28/2024 at 6:03 PM, Fudge Nuggets said:

The big bloated international O&G company I work for still has a pension plan along with 401k. 

 

oxy and cpchem come to mind 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13506]

On 8/28/2024 at 6:03 PM, Fudge Nuggets said:

The big bloated international O&G company I work for still has a pension plan along with 401k. 

 

13 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

oxy and cpchem come to mind 

y'all talking about defined benefit or contribution? 

[huge 3793]

My wife has one.  Works for Abbvie, maybe you've seen their commercials?

 

NOTHING IS EVERYTHING!!!!

[MinerProphet 71]

There was a cop in Dallas who was just, for lack of a better term, executed while sitting in his squad car. He was in his mid-40's and had just transitioned to being a cop from a teacher after a 17 year teaching career.

On one hand, you are going from a pension career to a pension career but on the other, I can see how the better pension is enticing. But a stark reminder that police put their lives on the line every night for that pension, I guess.

Teachers do too, in a non-zero odds way, but it's really not even worth comparing.

[Navin R. Johnson 705]

[Sandman 3403]

On 9/2/2024 at 8:52 PM, tx 3 putt said:

all the retired cops i know (mostly hpd) have a house + vacation house

There was a cop who lived on the street behind mine, was the resource officer at the high school. All the kids knew him and said he was a good guy. He told my kid that he was retiring and he and his wife had just bought a new house, he was excited. The I saw on the news a few weeks later that he and another guy got busted for fudging their OT numbers and "stealing time", as they call it. Both got arrested and fired and lost their pensions. He moved not long after that and I've always wondered how that conversation went with his wife. /CSB

Edited September 4 by Sandman

[Fudge Nuggets 19184]

6 hours ago, Sandman said:

There was a cop who lived on the street behind mine, was the resource officer at the high school. All the kids knew him and said he was a good guy. He told my kid that he was retiring and he and his wife had just bought a new house, he was excited. The I saw on the news a few weeks later that he and another guy got busted for fudging their OT numbers and "stealing time", as they call it. Both got arrested and fired and lost their pensions. He moved not long after that and I've always wondered how that conversation went with his wife. /CSB

‘Stealing time’ is what they told the media.  If it was bad enough to get fired over it was some really bad shit the rest of the department didn’t want being made public.  Did he have access to the department’s evidence locker?  Maybe he cut a deal with the school’s connect.

[MinerProphet 71]

On 9/3/2024 at 1:28 PM, MinerProphet said:

There was a cop in Dallas who was just, for lack of a better term, executed while sitting in his squad car. He was in his mid-40's and had just transitioned to being a cop from a teacher after a 17 year teaching career.

On one hand, you are going from a pension career to a pension career but on the other, I can see how the better pension is enticing. But a stark reminder that police put their lives on the line every night for that pension, I guess.

Teachers do too, in a non-zero odds way, but it's really not even worth comparing.

I mean, after yesterday...it sounds like jobs with a rationally defensible chance of dying have the pensions (e.g. Cops, Firemen, freaking Teachers(!), dangerous and hazardous field workers in O&G or Steel foundries or heavy duty manufacturing plants, I guess?).

White collar nerds I guess just take the measly 401k and appreciate going home to their families, more or less.

[baboso 6054]

Or, they get a white collar job with the Federal government.

[Foosters 17818]

or the state government

[Sandman 3403]

2 hours ago, Foosters said:

or the state government

I'm a state employee with a pension but in 2015, our state got rid of pensions for new employees. Really sucks for recruiting IMO. 

[Updawg 2266]

I'm a state employee with a pension but in 2015, our state got rid of pensions for new employees. Really sucks for recruiting IMO. 

Yep. I don’t see how the state will get any good talent especially young people. Glad I just finally reached the rule of 80

[52-80 19139]

youre going to have to work for uncle sam or aunt kamala if you want defined-benefits pension

 

[ballrific 215]

what’s the loophole in becoming a fireman if you’re over 45? Sue for age discrimination or have an “uncle”?