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Auto Service: What Would You Do?

ernest_t_bass
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ernest_t_bass

ernest_t_bass 1196

Posted
Posted

For the record, I am not a mechanic.  I'll start this story off with some facts:

Dumb

  1. Me
  2. I take my truck to a local Ford and/or Chevy dealer b/c I know the service manager
  3. Bought my truck with 75K on it, 3.5 years ago.  I've put 40k on it (Maths = 115k)
  4. I've  never had to do anything serious to my truck, ever
  5. Last service they suggested new spark plugs, transmission flush... I said no
  6. Been working a summer job (I'm a teacher), so I now have extra cash to take care of #5
  7. Take it to dealer... 

The saga... 

Quote

Take the truck to dealer for 1) oil change/service 2) Spark plugs 3) transmission flush.  They also suggested 4) coolant flush.  Total bill before coupon discount comes to $650.  I said to go ahead and do it, I have the cash to cover it.  This was last Thursday.  

Thursday

"Not done with truck.  Started late.  Here is a loaner."

Friday

T - "Coil #2 is going bad.  Want us to replace it?  Here is cost.  Gotta warn you, that when you change one, usually others go back pretty quickly.  Want us to do all for $900?"

M - "NO!  Just do the one."

T - "We were right.  Now #4 bad... Now #6 bad."

M - "FFS, just do them all."

T - "Not done with truck.  Here is a loaner.  It's the shittiest fucking car we have on the lot that is 1.5k overdue for oil change, and it is out of line.

Monday

Done - $1400 bill.  15 miles and check engine light comes on, and one of cylinders misfiring.  Take it back Tuesday.

Tuesday

T - "Got it fixed.  3rd cylinder was misfiring, so we changed the harness, blah, blah, blah.   Test drove it, and you should be good.

M - Drive it 3 miles and check engine light back on, however not misfiring.  Back to dealer Wednesday.

Wednesday

T - They are not done by 3:30 when I told them I needed it.  "We can't figure out what's up, and why the light is one.  We think it has to do with catalytic converter with new plugs/coils.  I think it will go away in a few days."

- They are still not done with truck

M - I have to go get my daughter.

T - Here is a loaner.  I'll call you and let you know.

M - "I'm not happy.  This is day #5, I have a $1400 bill, and this thing still isn't fixed."

T - Derp, herp, slurp, sturp, sherp ... "We'll let you know."

T - Ring, ring - "Hey ETB, got your truck back.  You just want to drive it and see if the check engine light goes off?"

M - "NO.  TOMORROW IS DAY 6, I'M WITHOUT MY TRUCK STILL.  I WANT IT FIXED!"

The question - What do I do about this bill?  They have not charged me a dime on top of the original bill.  Should I pay the full $1400 b/c it is for services rendered that were agreed upon?  We're looking at $400 labor, $1000 parts.  

What would YOU do?

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31498

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From a legal standpoint, you approved each additional repair beyond the first, so unless they compromise, you are on the hook for the full bill.

 

Now, you can contest whether any or all of the repairs were made in a good and workmanlike fashion and thus worth the price agreed upon.

 

To some extent, this is just what happens with an older, higher mileage vehicle.  But this isn't that old or that high mileage.

 

 

Edited by TwiceHorn
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31498

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

What did they put on that costs a thousand bucks?

Some modern vehicles have an individual ignition coil associated with each cylinder, instead of a single coil and distributor, or an electronic coil/distributor.  It would appear that we're looking at 8x200 for the coils and another 200 or so for the wiring harness, give or take.

 

Check, coils aren't that expensive, looks like about 80 bucks for all 8, outside a dealership.  There are costs associated with a coolant flush and transmission flush (the fluids, a filter, probably some other shit.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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smoky

smoky 840

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Posted

Talk to your service manager guy.

Also, Google is your friend with regards to auto repair.

Next time start there and see if it's something you think you can tackle. If not, never take it to a stealership unless you know a guy or it's under warranty.

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Spur08

Spur08 382

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If you're in DFW, I have a mobile mechanic who is the shit and so cheap.  He doesn't do specialty work that requires certain devices but, everything else, he does.  Can't help with your current situation but, since you went to a dealership, I would say you deserve it!....j/k

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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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Never trust a dealership. Red McCombs Toyota once told me that one of my tires had non-repairable damage, so I needed two new tires. Oh, and BTW, your power steering line is leaking. I told them to pound sand and swung by Discount Tire. No damage found on any tire. I've been monitoring my power steering fluid levels for more than a month now. No drop.

Never take a car to a dealership for routine shit like a radiator flush. If they can teach a high school dropout making $10 an hour at Jiffy Lube to do it, why pay a dealership? Also, always be highly skeptical of anyone trying to up sell you. Always. "I recommend you do XYZ." OK, do it. "Just so you know, if you do XYZ, you should also do UVW or else XYZ isn't as good." Well, then why didn't you recommend the whole thing right out of the gate? Because they wanted you to say yes to something first. People have a hard time revoking a yes in a sales situation. They give you the bare minimum to say yes, then let it ride from there.

Chalk this dealership experience as the cost of education.

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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12883

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smoky has it right. Talk to your buddy that works there. Make sure to not agree to any other costs and get your car back in working order. Ideally today. You've agreed to $1400 and that's what you should pay.

And then listen to Eastwood - be done with this place. The dealership is the worst for getting any service done. Even if your buddy works there, unless you talk w/ him every time you go in, one of those guys is going to up-sell you.

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HouTex

HouTex 1880

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Posted

In the future DIY. Spark plugs and coils are easy to DIY. As others have said, search YouTube videos and do as much as you can yourself. I've been doing my cars for years. The coils and plugs cost about $250 and take maybe two hours to do. If you can turn a wrench you can do it.

I used to replace my brake pads and rotors and I would save about $500 an axel vs the slealership cost.

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harold

harold 81

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Changing an ignition coil on an F150 takes less than 5 minutes.  Its one clip for the wiring and a single screw.  There is no reason to do them all at the same time.  You should have just had them do the two closest to the cab (1 and 5?) and do the rest yourself.  The plugs are tougher because they break way too easy in those engines.  If one breaks it is a major pain in the ass.

 

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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 4008

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Dealerships are a horrible choice for service work like this.  You are paying a big premium for nothing.  All parts they charge you for are going to be ridiculously priced.  If you know the service manager, I would start there to at least get you truck fixed asap.  Unless he's a real good friend you are pretty much stuck with the bill.  My wife gets free oil changes for the life of the car at the dealership she bought her Highlander at.  She doesn't even use it because even with an appointment they take 2 hours to do it, and that's on a random weekday. 

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retsevlys

retsevlys 408

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1 hour ago, harold said:

Changing an ignition coil on an F150 takes less than 5 minutes.  Its one clip for the wiring and a single screw.  There is no reason to do them all at the same time.  You should have just had them do the two closest to the cab (1 and 5?) and do the rest yourself.  The plugs are tougher because they break way too easy in those engines.  If one breaks it is a major pain in the ass.

 

2009 was the last year with the faulty plugs in the F150

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tokamak

tokamak 6431

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I too have learned the painful and expensive lesson that dealerships are the biggest scum on the face of the Earth. I'll never take another one of my cars to a dealership for anything unless it's warranty stuff or free oil changes or whatever. Even then I'm kind of leery. Fuck dealerships.

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ernest_t_bass

ernest_t_bass 1196

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Business Day #6 (calendar day #8)

Quote

 

Really like to drive it a little later today and tomorrow. This morning Let sit n idle roughly 45 minutes to an hour to get the engine good and warmed. No engine light truck was running good and smooth. About 1-1:30 today

Test drive to [town 15 minutes away] and back, everything was good.

Let sit about 1/2-45 minutes test drive again, still running good, but engine light did come back on.

 

 

I was/am furious.  I don't see how all of this shit falls under my (verbal) contractual agreement for services rendered.  9 calendar days was not agreed upon.  I don't care if "they are fixing it" and "they gave me a loaner in the meantime."  I'll never go back.

I've been suckered, and I feel like a complete fucking moron.

Edited by ernest_t_bass
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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25975

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Well, you HAVE been suckered, and you ARE a complete fucking moron, so those feelings are justified. 

 

Seriously dude.  It's summer, it's hot as fuck.  That engine is warm  after 5-10 mins of idling and isn't gonna get warmer an hour later.  Maybe motor vehicles aren't your thing. Have you tried riding a bicycle? Or a unicycle? 

Edited by Gil Bang
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torre

torre 1286

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, ernest_t_bass said:

 

 

I was/am furious.  I don't see how all of this shit falls under my (verbal) contractual agreement for services rendered.  9 calendar days was not agreed upon.  I don't care if "they are fixing it" and "they gave me a loaner in the meantime."  I'll never go back.

I've been suckered, and I feel like a complete fucking moron.

I would ask to see the dealership manager (top guy,  no assts) and explain your dilemma.   Not the service manager,  the overall manager of the dealership.    Explain your limited knowledge of vehicles and the fact you were taken.     Also,  tell him your intention to contact the Ford Motor Co District Rep or higher.

May result in a slightly reduced bill or discount.    May not,  but you will have elevated the poor service to the highest level.    I would still contact the highest echelons of Ford Motor Co and the BBB.

Edited by torre
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ernest_t_bass

ernest_t_bass 1196

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It's a Chevy dealer.  But, before you bitch me out.  They own a Ford dealership 1 mile down the road, and they are basically the same business entity.  I used this particular dealership shop because it is next door to work.  I just parked my car, gave them the keys, and walked into work.  But I still may do the same.

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25975

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You took a ford with well-documented issues into a Chevy dealer, with a garage full of GM trained mechanics.  Guys that work on GM products 99% of the time, and you can't understand why shit didn't go smooth? 

Dude, you need to let your wife handle shit with the cars and the house.

 

Edited by Gil Bang
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31498

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What are dealership labor rates up to these days?  $60/hour?  $80?  That is one of the first objections to dealer service.  Certified mechanics have some value, for sure, but mostly as diagnosticians.  The actual wrench-turners are pretty much the same everywhere.  No need to pay extra for routine stuff.

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Anton Chigurh

Anton Chigurh 3319

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What are dealership labor rates up to these days?  $60/hour?  $80?  That is one of the first objections to dealer service.  Certified mechanics have some value, for sure, but mostly as diagnosticians.  The actual wrench-turners are pretty much the same everywhere.  No need to pay extra for routine stuff.

 

In a metro area, anywhere from $125 to about $215.

 

Also, many many good technicians have gone on to do other things because warranty pay has gotten worse and the industry is kind of reeling right now. Many/most current dealer techs have zero idea what they’re doing. Hell, many of them at independents have no idea either. They’re part swappers and that’s it.

 

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25975

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Pepsico owns Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, and KFC.  

When I order a bucket of Extra-Crispy at Taco Bell, they fuck it up every-single-time and give me a bag of tacos.  Motherfuckers are the same business entity and only a mile apart.  I'm fucking pissed about the shitty chicken at Taco Bell. 

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25975

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OP is bitter and slinging neg rep.  I would be too if I was so fucking stupid that I took a Ford to a Chevy DEALER for service.   A Ford Dealer is bad enough, but a Chevy Dealer?   I've got a Mercedes (no humblebrag, I'm a realtor and I bought it CPO).  Next time it needs service, I think I'll look for an Alfa-Romeo dealer and take it there. 

Edited by Gil Bang
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tokamak

tokamak 6431

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12 hours ago, torre said:

I would ask to see the dealership manager (top guy,  no assts) and explain your dilemma.   Not the service manager,  the overall manager of the dealership.    Explain your limited knowledge of vehicles and the fact you were taken.     Also,  tell him your intention to contact the Ford Motor Co District Rep or higher.

May result in a slightly reduced bill or discount.    May not,  but you will have elevated the poor service to the highest level.    I would still contact the highest echelons of Ford Motor Co and the BBB.

A Honda dealership literally damaged my car while trying to "repair" it (which was confirmed by a different Honda dealership). I harassed the regional/national Honda customer service people for weeks about it. When I finally did get someone to return my call, they almost literally told me to go fuck myself.

Maybe Ford is different and they actually give a shit about their customers unlike Honda, and it's definitely worth a shot for the OP, but I very much doubt he's going to get any satisfaction from contacting Ford itself. These manufacturers know that their dealer networks are a hive of villainy, and they don't care.

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dcbc

dcbc 14487

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Posted (edited)

I agree with the "find an independent mechanic" advise.  Having said that, my experience with Ford trucks is that for some years, the ignition coils are a pain to deal with due to how they are oriented on the engine.  Granted, mine was an 01, but the coils are supposedly labor intensive to access. That's why my mechanic always asked if I wanted to replace one or all---not because replacing one necessarily caused the rest to go wrong, but because if you were going to pay to have them drop the engine, you might as well pay a bit more to get all of the coil packs replaced.

Now, if you can see all of the coil packs, it's very easy to swap them.  I do it on my VW, but they are located on top of the engine.  It takes 5 minutes. 

Also, supposedly, some of the spark plugs are prone to getting rusted in place.  I'm wondering if they hit them with some PB Blaster or the like to break them loose and that may be causing the issues with the CEL.  Seems unlikely that it would be so persistent, but you never know.

Edited by dcbc
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Updawg

Updawg 2268

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There is a timeframe for all the sensors to check and activate on, that's why it is taking a while for the light to come on. It depends on the car but just letting it idle for a while isn't going to do it.

It might be something like. Engine on for 45 mins + driving over 30 mins for 5 mins + doing x and z = all sensors active and clear or with a warning. That's why you can't just dicoonnect your battery to clear a warning and then go get an inspection. It takes a little bit for those to reset

Good luck and as others have said never go to a dealer

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Hugh G. Rection

Hugh G. Rection 156

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18 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

You took a ford with well-documented issues into a Chevy dealer, with a garage full of GM trained mechanics.  Guys that work on GM products 99% of the time, and you can't understand why shit didn't go smooth? 

Dude, you need to let your wife handle shit with the cars and the house.

 

His wife doesn't do house stuff.

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phdhorn

phdhorn 6224

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18 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

You took a ford with well-documented issues into a Chevy dealer, with a garage full of GM trained mechanics.  Guys that work on GM products 99% of the time, and you can't understand why shit didn't go smooth? 

Dude, you need to let your wife handle shit with the cars and the house.

 

Lighten up, Francis.  Jeesus.

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ernest_t_bass

ernest_t_bass 1196

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The truck will be out of commission until next Thursday.  They are replacing a catalytic converter (their dime).  That will mark 2 weeks I have been without my truck.  Daughter's fair is coming up (horses/goats) and we will need it for that.  Fuck them hard.

Legally, I know that I am bound to the $1400 bill for the agreed upon work (I'm an idiot, it's been noted).  But FFS, you should eat this whole fucking bill for being fucking stupid fucks. 

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